News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Anyone here try this? Any comments?

I was wondering why not Selenium. Andy says selenium bonds irreversibly and deactivates Mercury. But is toxic at doses not to far above normal doses.

You can chelate yourself with ALA alone and get well. But adding DMSA to it, can keep things more stable and speed things up a bit apparently.

It shouldn't be used after new exposure to mercury and/or when blood levels are still high. Or if you have redistributed mercury previously and repoisoned yourself. Those things need to be reduced first (with DMSA or other methods or just waiting it out).

Selenium is not a chelator according to Andy, so does not reduce mercury. I tried it when I was mercury toxic and did find I had reactions which may have been some detox, but I dont think it's a strong enough agent to significantly reduce mercury. I think it can displace some of it though by competing for binding sites. Plus it helps raise glutathione levels, which may help indirectly with a certain amount of detoxing.

I am really not sure about selenium, it's an interesting one and caused both good and bad reactions in me. Those really mercury toxic may find they have to start with low dose selenium becuase of reactions.

Andy discusses ALA and selenium and much more on this link:
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html

Just scroll down till you get what you're looking for.

I chelated on ALA alone, it worked at first very well, but after a few rounds things started going downhill. Not strong adverse reactions, just started getting increasingly foggy in head and lost concentration. The first ALA rounds had the opposite effect.

I didn't want to use DMSA, because I didn't see benefits from using it (I do not believe that chelating mercury alone will help much). Then when I finally got the connection to acetaldehyde and DMSA, I realized why people get benefits from using it.

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/203523.html

Never use anything like ALA, anti-oxidants etc. alone without having a proper aldehyde detoxer at hand. ALA also destroys candida, and it isn't particularly good at mopping up the candida toxins after that. I used molybdenum + pantothenic acid, which both support the aldehyde detox pathway. After having used these for a few weeks, I feel again very well. Brain fog lifted, adrenal problems are also much relieved etc.

Other options for acetaldehyde detox are succinic acid, and cysteine (NAC), which bind strongly to acetaldehyde. Both are more friendly to the liver than DMSA. NAC is also known to cause serious side-effects for some people, perhaps because of its ability to strongly bind to acetaldehyde. If you believe in the mercury theory, then you must use DMSA, but I don't so I get more options to treat myself.

Cysteine binds to acetaldehyde:
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/1/146

Acetaldehyde is a fungal waste product that causes brain fog and metallic taste in mouth.

These are typically symptoms from taking acetaldehyde detox inhibiting drugs and then taking alcohol, making your body flooded with acetaldehyde (it deposits if not detoxed):

Flushing or blotching red rash (face, neck, thorax)
Sense of face and hand swelling
Diaphoresis
Palpitations/chest pain
Dyspnea/hyperventilation
Nausea/vomiting
Metallic taste!
--------------------
Headache
Vertigo/dizziness
Tingling paresthesias (perhaps due to hyperventilation)
Apprehension/sense of impending doom
Weakness
Hypertension
Hypotension (more severe poisoning, looked up this myself)
Tachycardia (occasionally dysrhythmias)

Thanks for the replies. PGM, I found your response particularly useful. So how should one compose a chelation plan based on ALA, NAC, MSM, and Molybdenum? Should cilantro, garlic, and plenty of eggs also be added to the protocol? I guess a few grams of vitamin c a day is also needed as well as other vitamins. Should one take up to double the RDA of minerals(calcium, magnesium, zinc) while on this regimen? Do these supplements cause an accelerated loss of these minerals? What dosages of ALA, NAC, MSM, Molybdenum should be taken? i would rather do a chelation that is slower and safer than a rapid one that might be dangerous of cause severe reactions. I am still in the planning stages of removal of the rest of my amalgams, so this regimen will have to wait. I guess the standard advice is to wait 3 months after the last amalgams are removed before starting chelation with ALA?

Currently I am taking 2 grams a day of vitamin c, garlic and eggs. These help me feel better. i am also taking 200 mcg a day of selenium.

JK98, chelating safely is hard. Even if you take proper chelating agents, you will have a hard time dosing them correctly. Moreover, not everyone respond in the same way to the same substances. E.g. those with CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome) doesn't apparently respond to many things at all.

Just listen to your body, and be good at it. Having lots of brain fog, stiff joints, joint pain, and reacting badly to nearly everything (increase of heart rate etc.) is a cardinal sign that you have too much acetaldehyde around, and that your body is unable to detox it efficiently. Then you focus on getting that out, before anything else.

If you do not have these problems, it is probably safe to continue to chelate, but monitor your health to see that you're not getting more acetaldehyde mobilized than your body can handle.

The best chelating protocol is the Cutler one, ALA+DMSA, because it is tested and found to work for many. Would be nice to see someone doing a trial on succinic acid + ALA instead, with similar dosing. Then add to that pantothenic acid (B5), 100 mg+ per day (if you can tolerate, you can up it 500 mg if it works for you), and molybdenum 150-300 mcg. The very minimal protocol is to use ALA alone (same dosing as Cutler suggests) with B5 + molybdenum (my finding), it may work too.

Start using immediately a high dose of pantothenic acid (B5) (100 mg+ per day) if you can tolerate, it is good for adrenals. Don't let your adrenals rot away by not supporting them properly. I did this mistake, but they were not damaged beyond repair. It is important to use a high dose of B5 (if you can tolerate it), smaller ones are less efficient. B5 has so many benefits that I won't repeat them all, but one other is that it supports aldehyde detox, so it's doubly useful to use it the whole time. Pantethine can also be used (in similar amounts), it may be even more efficient for some purposes, but B5 and pantethine are not the same thing, so you can use both for even more benefits.

I don't know how NAC and MSM can be used safely.. They are known to cause quite horrible symptoms for some. I also found that things change completely when you take out your fillings, you get all the crap raining in your neck soon after the removal, and you may need to slow down whatever you're doing for several months. I don't know about the 3 months advice, it's probably some average that has been found to be good, but you know yourself when you're not in shape to chelate, at least I knew. For some chelation can become a distant dream in the beginning after the removal, because you're in such a poor shape that you simply can't chelate.

For the minerals, I only found magnesium to be essential (helps with heart problems, take at least 300 mg per day), but calcium and zinc are useful too in some ways (zinc being the more useful). My advice is to take RDA for things which you don't find so useful, but some things can be happily overdosed, like vit C, if it works for you. But DMSA indeed depletes some minerals, if you use it.

I found that the chelation appears to be much about getting out acetaldehyde, the conventional view is different, and focused on getting mercury out. My findings do not support the mercury point of view though. Good to get out the mercury, but there are other problems too that are more important to address.

PGM, interesting post. I wonder how are you doing lately? Did you get well?

yeah, hi PGM, welcome back. Cool post!

Hi bg123, and Sunshine. Thanks, I'm doing fine at the moment, I think I finally got rid of the ADHD-like symptoms that have been bothering me for months (is this adrenal related or just because of the toxic effects of acetaldehyde?). My detox seems to have halted under the load of acetaldehyde (it must be it, because molybdenum and B5 are proving so effective), but after megadosing some B5 I feel better than ever. It seems some B's are able to override the toxic effects of acetaldehyde. Especially I now notice how weak and foggy I got without enough of B5. Somehow ALA mobilizes up alot of acetaldehyde, and if your body happens to not be able to cope with it, because of poor support, things will not go well.

I would place a big emphasis on acetaldehyde in general, because you're going to have lots of more of that than mercury in your body, it is also a neurotoxin and toxic, and it also gets regenerated by the candida, unlike mercury.

Acetaldehyde also eats up cysteine, which may go to a point that it seriously compromises whole body biochemistry, because without cysteine not many things works. I see the connection to CFS here.. If I'm right people with CFS should feel stiff all over, and have random pain, and joint pains, because of the accumulation of acetaldehyde, and failure to detox it. That's why undenatured whey protein is good for CFS treatment, because its purpose is to increase cysteine.

Maybe you have an ammonia issue:

From: http://www.cancertutor.com/Autism/ComprehensiveGuide.doc

"Hyperammonemia means that ammonia, instead of being discharged by the liver, is recirculated into the blood stream. It is apparently caused by a deficiency of four Amino Acids: Citrulline, Aspartic Acid, Threonine, and Arginine. Vegetarians are especially susceptible to Hyperammonemia because of the lack of essential, Medium-Chained Amino Acids (L-Leucine, L-Isoleucine, and L-Valine) that in turn cause a deficiency of those Amino Acids named above. [color:"red"] Thus, a hyperammonemic state yields the spacy “brain fog” reaction, or in more severe instances may lead to seizures. [/color] "

Ammonia is unlikely. E.g. Molybdenum doesn't help against ammonia (like for me). Molybdenum is recommended for those with candida (i.e. in practice everyone on this forum):

http://candidapage.com/aldehyde.shtml

Hi pgm:

This is good information. I will have to try some B5 and molybdenum. So you feel ALA should be used only with DMSA and not alone? Or use it with B5?

Thanks,

TW

Hi TW. Yes, ALA should be used with DMSA and/or B5/molybdenum.

I seem to finally have gotten something thrown together that actually works (for me). I have made the following categories of how supplements work:
1) histamine reducers
2) candida/mercury chelators
3) acetaldehyde detoxers

High histamine means high adrenaline, and this is uncomfortable (who hasn't had heart palps etc.), and so I'm using magnesium, calcium, taurine and Co-Q10 for heart protection + reducing histamine (400 mg + 400 mg + 500 mg + 30 mg). Taurine also has a calming effect, which is good. Magnesium and calcium lowers histamine. One can also try methionine to lower histamine.

Main chelator is ALA for me, but i also do rounds on selenium + vit C + E, because these work differently than ALA, but nevertheless they too stir up toxins. The acetaldehyde that comes out must be from the candida, I have learnt that, and ALA in particular stirs up a lot of that for me, but in a more controlled way, than other anti-oxidants. Mercury detox has never been high up on my priority list, whatever comes out in the process, that's good enough.

The acetaldehyde detox support is B5 + molybdenum for me (100-200 mg + 300 mcg per day). B5 has also the very important benefit of being essential to adrenal hormone production, I at least can't live without this, without feeling too miserable.

You can add DMSA or succinic acid to this to maximize the acetaldehyde detox, but this is untested for my part. So yes, I consider B5 + molybdenum as a replacement for DMSA, because DMSA is actually an acetaldehyde detoxer too. The most potent acetaldehyde detoxers that I know use succinic acid in some form (remember DMSA = dimercapto succinic acid), however, the natural way of supporting acetaldehyde detox is B5/pantethine/molybdenum, this is also more liver friendly than using DMSA, and seems to be effective enough too, at least for me.

When chelating I always get the adrenaline rushes, its quite obvious, and when pushing too hard and I may get some hives, which is clearly a sign that histamine is high, and that toxins are leaking out. Can't be helped though, but this puts stress on the adrenals, so just give them what they want (B5), and they are happy. If you dont do it, the adrenals will still give out adrenaline, but you'll end up with having less of cortisol etc., resulting in adrenal fatigue, on the top of it.

Hi Guys! I would also add to the pgm list is WATER. Water is a major detoxifier and without flushing your system with it your plumbing system slows down. Also histamine levels can be reduced by drinking more water. Histamine having a bad reputation also works for us by moving water around in our bodies to where it's needed most. By increasing the amount of water in your body, the amount of histamine released to move water is reduced for it's not needed. What I'm really saying is that when you're dehydrated your body helps by releasing histamine to move water.
THIS IS A GREAT POST-THREAD GUYS, THANKS

Hi yes, I drink a lot of water too, it seems to be natural for me. Histamine is necessary yes, to aid in the detox, but the adrenals don't like this, and want to counteract it. That's why it is better to take supplements to lower histamine, and you'll save your adrenals more. I'm going to test methionine next, it seems to be good for histamine too. Though, I'm having little trouble anymore, selenium is about the only thing I can't handle well.

Is there a good time release ALA to take before going to sleep? I need to sleep 6-8 hours in a row. I can't wake up in the middle of the night to take ALA.

The time release ala is not recommended by Cutler (and the yahoo FDC crew) because the release is not regular, nor uniform release. The marketing says that it is, Cutler says that it is not.

Some people do take it and I always see replies like I just replied to you now. slow release ALA it is off the Culter protocol.

If you search on Yahoo FDC threw will be more info there

sorry

Not all time release formulations are the same though. Is it better to skip a dose while sleeping, or take a double dose of time release pills before sleep? I realize that the time release isn't perfect, but is it worse than skipping a dose?

Here is a photo that made me laugh.

http://www.fugly.com/pictures/13291/monkey-dentist.html

I don't know enough about time-release ALA to know whether it would work that way. I know Andy talks about the normal ALA and there doesn't seem to be anyway around it, other than either doing it every 3 hours, or going off his protocol and taking risks.

I think only you can answer that. I would be taking risks with your health by suggesting otherwise. I think even if you asked this on the frequent dose forum where all they do is discuss the Cutler protocol, you would probably be told that there is no other way, you either comply with the protocol and put up with the broken sleep, or you do your own way and risk adverse outcomes.

There just isn't enough info on time release to know if you can get away with it and that it will just continue to release slow ALA into your system over hours.

It is really up to you if you want to try that. I personally would not I don't think. I'd be too scared. I'd chelate on weekends and do the every 3 hours. You can stretch it to every 4 I guess, which is still taking a risk, but it is better than missing the nightly doses altogether. Even every 4 hours is a bit too long for ALA.

I agree with Bex, the choice is yours. Personally I would not, but we are all different. I just missed a dose of dmsa and that screwed me up for a week. Was just one dose of 6mg.

Yes, I agree that it all depends on what works for you. I never had problems going on and off ALA (20-25 mg every 3 hours), so I stop for nights and continue in the mornings. My only problem is that if I stay too long, non-stop on ALA (the every 3 hour schedule), I may get a die-off that gains momentum on its own. It has to be added that bad things started happening (various toxins started accumulating), unless done with additions as I suggested above. ALA alone was no good for me.

The ammonia issue in this thread needs a bit rethinking, because molybdenum actually has something to do with it too, although not clearly stated anywhere, it also takes part in removing harmful nitrogen compounds. And brain fog, nearly everyone has it in amalgam illness.

Here are some symptoms of ammonia poisoning (took away those symptoms that are clearly caused by exposure coming from outside of your body):

Lungs and chest
o Cough
o Chest pain (severe)
o Tight chest
o Wheezing
Eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and throat
o Throat pain (severe)
o Mouth pain
o Lip swelling
Gastrointestinal
o Severe stomach pain
o Vomiting
Skin
o Bluish colored lips and fingernails
Heart and blood
o Rapid, weak pulse
o Collapse
Nervous system
o Restlessness

Brain fog seems to be absent from this list.

How much molybdenum should one take?

I responded about this in another thread, 300 mcg is some kind of minimum when you need it. What I actually meant is that molybdenum is not well known to be good against ammonia, even though nitrogen is mentioned.

Cutler recommends 1000mcg and that’s what I take.

I take this one

http://www.nutricentre.com/Products/Products/PID-THM260.aspx

I just started taking ALA. I took my first 50 mg dose. I am also taking a mcg a day of molybdenum. How many days on and how many off should I do? I guess I should take the doses 3 hours apart, however I will have to miss a dose each night while sleeping.

You can take the ALA for about 3 days on, 3 days off if you wish, or extend it further. Whatever suits you. Most people just do the 3 days on routine and 3 days (or more) as a break.

You should not miss a dose. The whole point of this 3 hourly routine is to keep the chelating agent at continuous even levels in your blood. if you miss a dose, the levels of ALA will drop sharply in your blood stream, then when you take a later dose, they will spike up again and this is what makes the movement of mercury unpredictable and thus risks it going into more sensitive areas, which can make a person suffer the backfire effect (redistribution).

You can of course extend it to every 4 hours during the night and then go back to every 3 hours during the day (to help you get a bit more uninterrupted sleep). If you miss a dose(by accident) you should not continue the round, but you should instead stop and wait for a few days and start again. Being a bit late in taking a dose maybe acceptable if it's not "too late".

Some people can chelate for a whole 2 weeks non stop, but most do not like to do it that way, unless chelation happens to make them feel better on round. However, it's not such a good thing due to the interrupted sleep patterns and of course the need to rest and give the body a break between rounds. ALA apparently also increases the uptake of copper I believe, and I think "zinc"? (Not sure on that one), which is why it's not good to be taking it for "too" long in one whole stretch. 3 days or so is pretty adequate for a round.

You may also need to watch any supplement intake that contains copper (and zinc? not sure on the zinc). whilst using ALA. Also yeast levels can flare up too with the use of alpha lipoic acid, so that may also need to be addressed. DMSA can do that as well apparently, but I notice ALA is more problematic in that area (for me).

I need my sleep though. I can't survive on 3 or so hours of sleep, and have great trouble falling back to sleep after waking up. Are you suggesting that if someone needs to miss a dose at night, then they are better off skipping a day? How about taking 5 or 6 doses 3 hours apart, then skipping a day? Would that be better than skipping a night dose then resuming in the morning?

Taking it for a day and then stopping and then starting again is not part of the protocol. I understand you feelings on this though. Because I had trouble too!

But It MUST be taken for at least 3 days or more continuously. (you "might" get away with 2 days on). Sorry but this is what has been stated. THis is why people find his protocol hard to stick to because of the frequent dosing, but he said that if he could find any other way to do it and still have it a safe protocol, he would do it. He's not found any other way so far that allows for the same safety of mercury movement/removal. That is the downside of his protocol, the dosing times.

I cannot tell you what to do, you can try it if you wish. I do not understand it all enough to state exactly why even just a day's dose and then stopping is not advisable.

This is why Andy has suggested that extending it to every 4 hours at night is about as much as he can give a person so they are not waking as often. E.g. taking a dose at midnight, then waking at 4 am and then 8 am is better than midnight, 3 am, 6 am, 9 am.

However, even this can cause too many symptoms for some people. Every 4 hours for some is still not frequent enough and they still have to continue with the every 3 hours during the night as well.

One days dosing is not extended enough to be a safe "round". You could try it, but you would not be following his protocol and I really cannot tell you what would happen. Is it worth it? The loss of sleep is very annoying, but if you did this protocol for just 3 days (e.g. friday, saturday, sunday), do you think the other 5 days of recuperation would be enough to handle?

I know it is not easy, but the alternative is worse. I have tried taking chelating agents in other ways and it's hurt me very badly. It seems Cutler knew his stuff (certainly in my case) and I simply couldn't deviate off the protocol without incurring a severe backlash/backfire effect.

ALA is the last chelating agent I would take risks on personally, it's the main one andy warns about in messing around with. It's very strong, it crosses the blood brain barrier and he has mentioned irreversible effects in some cases when a person has decided to take it randomly/high doses or adjusting his protocol because they found it inconvenient. IT has happened and he's been blamed unfairly quite a few times. Either they decided to take the ALA too early following recent mercury exposure (e.g. amalgam removal), or made adjustments to the protocol itself.

It's tempting to do because it's an inconvenient protocol is nobody likes waking up to take a dose. I hated it, but I didn't have much alternative unless I wanted to suffer severe symptos and a worsening of my condition for a long time afterwards.

Is 50 mg a reasonable dose to take? I took two doses so far, spaced 3 hours apart. I am having a strong reaction to it, but it feels like a good reaction. I feel like I am healing. Could it be a candida dye off I am feeling, or is it a mobilization of mercury? I feel the effects in parts of my body that have been giving me discomfort(my rear gums, leg muscles, etc.)

50 mg is a big dose to start. Many like to start as low as 6 mg or so, or 12 mg etc. In Cutler's book you can take up to 200 mg, but I would not go NEAR this dose until you have been chelating for quite sometime and gradually built your tolerance up to higher doses. 50 mg is fine, but it maybe too much to start off with. If you feel the effects from this become too much, I would probably stop the round, wait a few days and then start again on a lower dose. Though it's not advisable to stop the round halfway through, sometimes if a dose is causing far too many effects, sometimes one may not have much choice if the discomfort becomes intolerable. It is not ideal to increase or lessen a dose during a round. Again this alters the consistency of chelating levels in the blood stream too. You want to avoid altering the levels of the chelator in the blood as much as possible by sticking to the same dose throughout the round and keeping to the frequent dosing times. This is very important, actually more important than how much of the ALA you are taking.

As you have already started on 50 mg, see how you go on that dose and see if you can continue taking that for 3 days straight. Again if it gets too much, stop and break for a few days before trying again on a lower dose.

I do not believe it is causing candida die off. I don't believe that ALA is an antifungal as pgm on here believes. I suffer with bacteria/virus/candida problems and taking ALA actually flared this up if anything, but created no sense of healing or healing symptoms and really didn't do much if anything for me at all and I stopped taking it. I realised then that my problems now probably no longer have mercury involved. Chelation doesn't tend to do a thing for me these days. So certainly no positive effects in that area were noted. however, when I had mercury poisoning, I tried it once and got healing symptoms! I got healing symptoms from DMSA, or anything that chelated mercury. Keeping to Cutler's protocol enabled me to keep those symptoms somewhat tolerable, though I still felt the detox (which is expected).

So in my personal view, I would imagine that it is highly possible (probable) that you are already experiencing the ALA removing metals from the problem areas of your body. Some people feel worse on ALA as its removing metals, some feel better. Either way it's a good sign. Feeling nothing at all, even on a high dose for an extended period probably indicates mercury may not be the problem. It's very individual and sometimes you will feel different on different rounds. You can have good rounds or difficult rounds. Either way, it usually indicates it's doing the job! Some people find their yeast/pathogen issues act up worse during chelation with ALA or DMSA (I find it worse with ALA), and that can be a problem, but it's not "too" bad. It's much worse to go and eat a load of sugar or something and chelation is what CURES the underlying metal poisoning, which maybe creating the pathogen problem in the first place, so Andy usually indicates that one should use it even if they are suffering yeast problems, but to just try and treat the yeast the best they can in the meantime.

Mercury gets into the muscles and into gums, into the jaw, almost anywhere. So it's not surprising if you feel like something is happening in those areas. Some people even feel a pulling sensation during chelation. You may experience mental effects on ALA, like euphoria, or depression, or increase in anxiety etc. It does not tend to suppress side effects like DMSA can. So don't be alarmed if you experience any strange mental symptoms! You may even feel really good! It's not always predictable.

The main test is what happens over time as you continue chelating. If it's chelating out metals, you should start to notice improvements last a bit longer as time goes on and eventually should lead to permanent improvements. But it takes time to get to that point.
Some people reach a point where the ALA starts to keep them well because it's grabbing mercury before it gets a chance to build up again. So when they quit too early....well you can see what can happen - the remaining mercury that is still slowly leaking out can build up again and make the person feel repoisoned. This is why you need to chelate for about 6 months or more AFTER you "feel" well to make sure it's got most of the metals out and that way when you stop the ALA, you do not regress again.