LindaLou's chelation experience

Hi -- I started talking in a thread here called "Chelation with ALA alone" but since I'm not doing that now, I thought it would be better to start a thread with a more accurate title.

This is day two of my first proper chelation round in a year. I had apparently hit what Cutler calls the "stall period," when organs are dumping mercury but symptoms don't feel like they're improving. I'm not entirely sure what happened to me last year but I lost heart and stopped, thinking if I treated my adrenals and thyroid that might be all I needed. It wasn't, so here I am again.

I started chelating again because I put something in my system that stirred mercury up. I think it might have been some digestive enzymes. Not sure why that happened but I figured I had nothing to lose by doing a chelation round.

I now feel the same as I did a year ago, before I stopped chelating and I sunk into a year-long spell of deep, numb depression. I feel more alive and alert. More "myself." My dose is only 12.5mg ALA and 6.25mg DMSA, so I'm heartened that I seem to be getting results with so little; maybe it means my body is ready to dump this stuff. I'm getting mild headaches, stomach aches and fatigue, but it's all manageable. It isn't so nice having to wake up in the middle of the night again to take a dose, but it's a small price to pay.

I lost my appetite when I started chelating (I tried ALA alone first but it made me quite sick). Now I'm on day 4 without sugar and I'm feeling effects from that too -- jittery and low, pessimistic mood. I've been having problems with sugar for a long time too, it was a crutch when I felt poorly or didn't know what else to do to get well. I am pleased to be trying to clean my diet up but I think I'll have to prepare for some troublesome withdrawal symptoms first. I'm not hungry but cravings today are becoming irritating.

All in all though, a very positive start. All of this is preferable to how I was feeling. I was so dead and numb inside.

You didn't mention what your weight is. Most of my adult life I was around 40 pounds or more overweight. During the past two years when I was on a low carbohydrate diet, I became underweight. I mentioned this since carbohydrates are necessary to produce serotonin, and if your serotonin levels are low, you will feel depressed. Licorice root helps boost serotonin levels, and helps improve mood. Cinnamon helps stabilize blood sugar levels. It is important to get enough calories, and make sure you don't become underweight. Eating more frequently but less at each meal will help keep your blood sugar levels more stable. More recently I added bread and pasta back to my diet, and have gained around 10 pounds from my low. I am happy at this weight, and don't want to gain anymore.

I think my new emphasis on mineral supplementation has been a great help. In addition to the vitamins and herbs I take, I am also taking magnesium, iodine, iron, calcium, copper, molybdenum, and selenium. I think tese minerals are so important, especially since I have read that chelation can decrease mineral levels. I also think that at least part of my fatigue problem was due to mercury in my thyroid displacing iodine. High levels(some recommend up to 50 mg a day) of iodine helps to dislodge mercury from the thyroid. Coper is necessary for hemoglobin production, although some mercury toxic people have too much copper. I am taking just 2mg of copper at a time, and just on the days when I am not chelating. I am afraid to take more than around 15 mg a day of iodine. I am also more careful now about making sure to take in enough salt. It is easy for me to forget to add salt to my food.

Hi JK -- yes, this sounds like you're supplementing well. I'll have to look myself into how much iodine to take; I'm hesitant to take too much because I am on a thyroid med. My weight-? . . . after eating so much sugar for so long, I'll let you have a guess at that one. I'm getting my carbs from vegetables; I get a bad stomach ache if I eat "brown" carbs or lentils, my system doesn't miss them.

Thyroid meds might work much more effectively with iodine supplementation, so a smaller dosage of them might be needed over time. The physician who prescribed the thyroid meds probably won't like the idea of you taking large doses of iodine without his permission. It is best to increase iodine dosage gradually, and since you are on thyroid meds it is probably better to take a more conservative iodine dosage. Another thing to keep in mind is that mercury binds with selenium and makes it unavailable, and that selenium is necessary to convert T4 to T3. So those who have a below normal temperature when waking up might greatly benefit from selenium supplementation.

"My weight-? . . . after eating so much sugar for so long, I'll let you have a guess at that one. "

I went from being quite overweight to being a bit underweight for a while. Some here are overweight, while others are underweight. Mercury seems to mess up hormone levels, so many who are mercury toxic have trouble keeping their weight within a desired range. When I was off wheat my weight got quite low, even though I was eating many calories(a huge amount of nuts).
I felt hungry all the time though. I might eliminate wheat from diet again, as I have been starting to gain weight recently. I would like to keep my weight stable, and not have it increasing or decreasing.

Carbohydrates are readily available in foods. The point of the diet is reduce or avoid the foods containing high amounts of them, which in turn potentially feed candida. I have had no such depression or what you've mentioned from reducing high carbs in my diet JK. In fact, because of high carbohydrates, I was in a much worse state. Though getting off sugar, wheat/gluten and yeast improved me - it was not enough later on when I had other issues happen (virus etc). Because of sugars/high carbohydrate foods, I had been feeding my candida and in turn, I lost my appetite and lost weight and became underweight.

When I went on the proper diet and reduced the high carb foods as well and started to consume more protein in meat and eggs and upped my healthy fat intake (butter etc), my weight normalised. I am now neither underweight nor overweight and my diet consists of meat (chicken, beef, liver, lamb etc), eggs, low carbohydrate vegetables, yoghurt (sugar free acidophilus) and some raw nuts (almonds/brazil) and I consume herbal or black tea as liquids and vitamin drinks.

The problem is, some people may not consume enough proteins and good fats with such a diet and I think they are very necessary. They allowed me to gain a normal amount of weight, yet not put on too many pounds.

I am 5 foot 5 and approximately 9 and 3/4 stone (maybe about 130 something pounds - 60 something kg) Thereabouts. Sometimes it goes down a bit, or over a bit, but it remains more-a-less balanced.

My weight because of this has remained stable throughout and my appetite has increased to becoming more healthy and normal. High carbohydrate foods did not do this for me, either they caused me to become overweight, or underweight. My moods were not helped by high carbohydrate foods. My energy levels were even worse! If that's possible. Even consuming a piece of fruit will cause a massive relapse. that's how serious it is for me.

you can get alot of energy from proteins/fats. You only have to read Dr Weston Price's studies in the healthiest cultures around the world.

This diet actually helped balance out my mood and alleviate depression and loss of appetite. However, since a bout of probiotics, I have been a mess, so right now I can't confidentally claim much at all. BUT, I HAD been doing fine on the diet up until that point! Though cheating on the diet brought pretty dire consequences - getting back on the diet and recovering and maintaining that allowed me to do a course and start studying. I had not been doing anything in YEARS. It allowed me to feel more energetic and I was able to study more.

However, as I said, a load of probiotics changed all that. Not sure how, but whatever it's done or erupted has been nightmarish and it's not something my already challenged system by other problems was obviously able to handle. I feel the candida is worse than ever because of it, OR something else has occured.

But certainly I know of a number of people consuming a low carbohdyrate diet with plenty of protein and fats who feel better than they have in years. Some gain cures, others like myself with more underlying problems going on may only find it a help to manage their condition better, rather than a cure.

Sorry to hyjack the thread here Linda. I am very happy to hear you are gaining symptoms from the chelation. This is a good sign and it appears it may also be helping you! This is encouraging news. Keep it up!

That's fine Bex. I am of the same opinion as you. I was introduced to the paleolithic or "stone age" diet on a withdrawal and recovery list for people on psych meds. It's used by many as a very healing diet. I register as a "protein type" in Dr. Mercola's metabolic profiling system and that certainly suits me. "Carb types" are quite a minority of the population -- these would be people who do well on the high carb, low fat diet that is regarded by the mainstream as healthy. If I can keep my diet clean then I won't be eating very differently from you, apart from some cheese and maybe the odd thing from a recipe book -- if I maintain some motivation while not chelating. Sometimes homemade mulligatawny soup is a real treat. Or chicken soup made with homemade broth.

As for the chelation experience . . . it's bringing the insomnia back like an old acquaintance I was glad I thought I'd seen the last of. I'm dozy in the evenings, wide awake early in the morning. I'm quite irritable now, I've gone numb inside again, I'm fatigued, and my stomach is constantly complaining. It's still manageable though, and not different from what I used to experience on chelation. I'll be happy to take a break of a few days after tomorrow.

They're being very helpful on the FDC list too. Someone has recommended animal-based digestive enzymes; they think some of the sulphurous plant-derived enzymes in the ones I tried might have been what upset me. It would be helpful to have a chemistry degree to talk there or to understand Andy's book properly. I'm just glad they're there to help; I don't mind occasionally taking their word for it.

They also linked to a message from the autism forum where a mother said her son had stopped making progress after improving in the initial few months of chelation. Andy wrote that it was normal for this to happen 9-15 months after the beginning of chelation. Like I said, I wish I'd known this before; maybe I would not have spent a whole year feeling so poorly and getting on meds that I wish I hadn't taken. Live and learn, as they say, and I did learn some useful things. I'm just thankful my body seems to be ready to start dumping the mercury again.

Day 3 of chelation. Quite fatigued now. My 10-minute bike ride home from work was interesting. The energy just didn't exist in my muscles and I ended up walking my bike up very gentle hills.

Mental symptoms are becoming more intense. I'm more forgetful. Don't feel like being around people, they irritate me. I've developed this sense of inadequacy, especially at my job, which has always been a sensitive point with me in this area anyway. My self-confidence has flown out the window and it seems like everybody is better than me at everything. I remember feeling like this as a child. I've always blamed my parents for it and certainly they contributed their share, but I wonder if all those amalgams in my first teeth had something to do with it too.

The truth of this is still so amazing: I've been poisoned. Millions of people have been poisoned. And people are by and large blind to it because dentists and scientists and the government are by and large blind to it too. 100 years from now people will be horrified that mercury was put in people's mouths.

Back to my own experience -- deep down there's still a sense of calm and purpose. My symptoms are a long way from getting the better of me, I recognise them for what they are, and I don't feel the necessity to reduce my dosage. Having said that, I think it's going to be a while before I consider increasing it.

I'll add posts if anything different happens, but this is the way I expect my rounds will go for the foreseeable future. I think I'm making good progress.

The day after stopping chelation I always feel lonely and sad. I just deal with it, I know its just thanks to the mercury. It is amazing, especially once you see how many people have at least some level of poisoning. Not many are as sick as us, but the quality of life for so many is affected.

Looks like your on the road to recovery LindaLou, I feel like I am too. I still find it amazing that so many people just deal with the symptoms and never try to find the cause, never try to find why their life feels so out of balance.

hope all people on this board will recover..

What are your remaining symptoms linda, gdawson?

My symptoms are: depression, absent-mindedness, concentration problems, brain fog, tiredness, food allergies, balance problems, feeling weird....

Gdawson, did you notice a difference when you had the small piece of amalgam removed?

Linda, the 2 to 1 ratio, taking ALA at double the DMSA dose seems like a good idea. I think you need to focus on detoxification though, so that you could tolerate larger doses. That is what I am doing for myself. It is not easy though.

I do feel a little different...not necessarily better, but certainly didn't give me any instant fixes. I wasn't expecting it too though, another year of chelation with ALA/DMSA and I think I should feel healthy...and then after another year of chelation I should feel like superman.

My symptoms: ADD, achy back and shoulders, low body temp, chemical sensitivity (somewhat severe), sun sensitivity, excessive urination, intolerance to cardio excercise (running, biking), digestive issues, very sweaty feet...etc...etc...

Besides all of that, the last year has been the happiest year of my life. I'm 23 and suprisingly strong, intelligent, and healthy looking...but obviously am poisoned, and have been since I was a wee little boy, but I still expect a full recovery in less than 2 years.

Gdawson, at least you are attacking this illness at an early age. Unfortunately I was sick for so many years before having my amalgams replaced. How many did you have? I had 25 of them in my mouth for so many years. I have most of the symptoms you have, although the low body temperature doesn't seem as bad as it was after a few weeks of 15 mg a day of iodine. Excessive urination might be due to taking too many herbs that are diuretics, or too much B vitamins(B vitamins are powerful diuretics). Urinating plenty is good for detoxification, as long as you are replacing the water and minerals that are lost. Are you taking huge doses of B vitamins?

My remaining symptoms? Depression, emotional numbness, fatigue, occasional insomnia and anxiety, no libido, low body temperature, irritability, little desire to be around people, lack of motivation. Before I started chelating again, I honestly felt dead inside, like I wasn't experiencing life but just going through the motions, forcing myself to do everything but never enjoying it. When my amalgams were removed the insomnia was much worse and I had awful brain fog. I'm certainly in a better state now, but it's easy to say that -- as soon as I started chelating a few days ago, I felt better (despite the chelation symptoms, if that makes sense).

There are other factors involved with this though. When I discontinued my antidepressant 3 years ago, my body was damaged further. I developed exercise and heat intolerance. Summer days with no air con are torture. And the emotional numbness got a lot worse. I was hoping that adrenal and thyroid support would help but they don't seem to be doing much. Also, I'm on Day 5 without sugar and I imagine that's helping me too.

A year ago when I chelated, I was on 100mg ALA and 50mg DMSA without any trouble. No one who is toxic can start on those doses though. I'm happy where I am and I'll work my way up gradually. If I tried any sort of detox apart from the sugar one, and what my body does naturally with my supplements, I think it would just put more stress on me. It's best not to tinker with too many things at once.

Hey gdawson, I like your attitude

I drank a lot of fluids and peed a lot since I was little. Its the same when I was not taking b-vitamins or using herbs. Probably a mild case of diabetes insipidus.

My body temp has improved a lot in the past year. Very grateful for that. Thyroid glandular has helped. I did take a lot of iodine in the past year as well...but still sensitive to it.

I am attacking this at an early age, but honestly it attacked me first. College was horrendous and I dropped out from feeling totally isolated and extremely depressed. I had 10 large amalgams in my adult teeth...many as a child (guessing a dozen), and everything got worse after I got braces when I was 15.

what dosages ala/dmsa you taking gdawson?

I can tolerate 25mg ala/ 12.5 mg dmsa for 3 days...but prefer 5 day rounds with 12.5 mg of each.

dawson, you eating wheat/gluten? i found a lot of my symptoms are caused by a gluten allergy.

No gluten...

I was having a hard time digesting anything and struggling with digestive symptoms regardless of what foods I ate. I was losing too much weight and couldn't eat enough calories without feeling ill. So I posted a while ago (maybe 10 months ago) on doing a raw milk fast. Apparently raw milk is the only food I can eat (drink) without feeling wierd. After doing the raw milk fast (drinking about 1 gallon of milk a day) for months...I tried adding other foods and nothing else still felt right in my stomach.

So, believe it or not, for the past ten months I have been drinking only raw milk. I occasionally snack on some blueberries and unsweetened yogurt. I can eat a little rice and veggies but still feel the best if I eat only raw milk. Any other animal protein makes me feel strange. So my diet has been literally been 99% raw milk for the past 10 months.

During the 10 months of drinking only raw milk, I have felt more progress than I have in the past 3 years since amalgam removal, in many ways. I feel alive and strong! I know this sounds crazy but its true, I used to think I need to eat other foods based on principle but it just didn't work, I just don't produce enough stomach acid and enzymes, and tried betaine and ox bile and enzymes and they just made me feel worse.

I'm sure I will be able to eat other foods after I chelate for a while longer, and clear the mercury out of my pancreas, but for now this is working for me better than anything else I have ever tried.

ok i can understand why you're feeling happier than ever. You're 100% raw... I don't have access to raw milk unfortunately.. i tried to go 100% raw with veggies, fruits, nuts and felt amazing but was losing too much weight.. I don't believe a raw vegan diet is healthy for many people but raw milk could work i believe......

"My remaining symptoms? Depression, emotional numbness, fatigue, occasional insomnia and anxiety, no libido, low body temperature, irritability, little desire to be around people, lack of motivation. "

I have all of those except the low libido. That is one symptom I wish I had. DHEA might increase libido, although women should probably just take a small dose of this, perhaps just 10 mg a day to start. This article links low libido to hypothyroidism.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/sex-drive.htm

Two herbs you should look into are Schisandra and Dong Quai.


I still think that 200 mcg a day of selenium might help with your thyroid problem, as selenium is necessary for conversion of T4 to T3, and mercury binds with selenium and makes it unavailable. I am glad you are taking the Lugol's solution. How much are you taking? If you are very iodine deficient, it may take a few weeks until you notice some results from it. It seems like my body temperature is closer to normal now after a few weeks of iodine supplementation. Heat intolerance also seems to be linked with thyroid dysfunction.

You are only on day 5 off sugar? I thought you were off sugar for a long time. Try to cut down on caffeine, as that contributes to heat intollerance. I am now down to one cup of coffee a day.

Thanks LindaLou, lets hope its contagious

My DHEA tested low in my saliva cortisol test which was done a year ago just before I started corticosteroids. However, supplementing it resulting in me feeling quite poorly.

I might well have some complications from hypothyroidism, I had a test which showed poor T4-T3 conversion. I am on a substantial dose of T3, which isn't helping much. I am taking one drop of Lugol's in a water bottle that I sip throughout the day; I don't want to take too much for a start and if I do take a very large dose it will only be for a little while, to see if it can kick start my thyroid. I took selenium for months and didn't notice any improvement, but it's a good supplement and there's no harm so I've got the bottle back out of the cupboard and started on that again.

The heat and exercise intolerance definitely were due to effects of the psych med withdrawal. This may be connected with thyroid or other things. No one knows enough about the effects of these meds on the body, and certainly very little is known about the damage that withdrawal can do. I know someone who was a runner on the British national team and when she discontinued her antidepressant she got neuralgia in her feet. For several years she has barely been able to walk. I know someone else who became suicidal and homicidal due to her antidepressant. She successfully sued Glaxo twice.

Back to my (by comparison insignificant) problems. I was eating sugar for a year because I consistently felt horrible and it was an addiction that seemed to provide occasional relief, even if it was just in the brief pleasure of eating something rich and chocolatey and feeling my body go zing (which I know is not a healthy thing). I was so very low. I'm being reminded of that now because I'm almost finished with this round of chelation and I feel like that. I had some welcome respite the past few days and I'm sure I'll feel better tomorrow.

The only thing I drink is water and occasional herbal tea, so no caffeine intake. I've never liked coffee anyway.

I don't think there's much I want to tinker with right now. I'd just like to focus on the chelation, getting back into that, maybe making a few minor adjustments to supplements, see how things go with the iodine. If you try too many things at once, you won't know what's responsible for how you feel, whether it be better or worse.

"I might well have some complications from hypothyroidism, I had a test which showed poor T4-T3 conversion."

That is to be expected in someone who is mercury toxic, especially if they aren't taking a selenium supplement.
If you take 200 mcg a day of selenium it might really help.
It is a pity that large doses of selenium are toxic, and that it is not advised to take more than 200 mcg a day of selenium supplements.

" I don't want to take too much for a start and if I do take a very large dose it will only be for a little while, to see if it can kick start my thyroid."

There are many articles about iodine here.

http://www.iodine4health.com/index.htm


Toxic metals and iodine.
http://iodine4health.com/special/metals/metals.htm

Well like I said, I've re-started the selenium. I have 200mcg caps and I never noticed a difference in hypothyroid symptoms but I'm sure they can only help.

Thanks for the links to iodine articles. In the light of that, I might bump my 1 drop of Lugol's up to 2 or more in the future and see how I go.

My doctor advised me to take the lugol's iodine, selenium and magnesium for thyroid. That plus my multi vitamin/mineral powder which contains almost everything and quite a high dose of vitamin C.

I think it's over 400 mcg that selenium may start causing symptoms. I do not notice a problem on 200 - 300 mcg of selenium, but then in New Zealand we are very low in selenium in our soils, so this is why supplementing it in these doses is not as much of an issue. It might be in areas that already contain ok amounts. But over and beyond 400 mcg, I can start to notice some symptoms. You can get a garlic/sour kind of taste in your mouth and some numbness etc when you take too much.

It can also take a while for things to start working for thyroid, so you have to wait until you've been on these supplements for long enough to where things start working better again.

Thanks for the articles JK98 - informative as ever!

"I think it's over 400 mcg that selenium may start causing symptoms"

Yes, however that includes the intake of selenium from foods.

I do not know for certain what the true overdose is. I have heard 400 mcg, but that varies also depending on the article.

Overdose of selenium could also vary from person to person depending on what their needs are. Extra selenium maybe helpful to those whose selenium has been displaced/depleted by toxins like mercury. Others not so toxic, may not require as much selenium and too much extra could cause other issues.

"I do not know for certain what the true overdose is. I have heard 400 mcg, but that varies also depending on the article.

Overdose of selenium could also vary from person to person depending on what their needs are."

Of course. Sometimes for certain substances they talk about toxicity in mcg or mg per kilogram of body weight, so the toxic amount would be double for a 200 pound man that it is for a 100 pound woman for example. Not all substances work like that though. For many things though, they seem to give a guideline based on a 150 pound person.

It depends on what kind you are using too as far as accumulation and toxicity right? I heard natural forms from Broccoli and so on are alot better, while L Selenomethionine can accumulate and become toxic. I have a book that says thats the cheapest form or one of them and the most toxic, is that true? I can't use alot of Selenium at all, even a half or 1/4 of a pill will make me wake up early after a few days or weeks use and feel horrible, I get bad anxiety and mind racing and so on. Any reason why? Kelp can do this too in higher dosages, both are not kind to me.

At a guess, I'd say that both are displacing mercury (the selenium and the iodine in the kelp) -- kicking it out of their receptor sites where it doesn't belong.

I would have to agree with you there, obviously I still have alot of issues there since those effect me like that in higher doses! I need to start out slow it seems and then build up, the only way to get there IMO. Remember slowly is always better and safer to see how you react, higher doses can mess you up alot, ala bex.

Ya, and kicking mercury out of the receptor sites is dangerous if your body is a poor excretor of mercury. ALA can still remove mercury from these same spots and it binds to the mercury, unlike iodine and selenium which would just bump the mercury into the bloodstream.

I do think higher doses are ok for a time if your body can handle them...but if you are reacting badly lower your dose because you are probably redistributing mercury which is a big no-no.

I think that's probably what is happening to me. I'm feeling spaced out. It reminds me very much of what I tried to do immediately after amalgam removal. I wanted to "go natural" and had coriander (cilantro), garlic, etc. All those things did was stir the mercury up. I felt better once I got onto DMSA.

I'm going to stop the iodine for now and hope that a few months down the road I'll be able to tolerate it better; maybe it can be a future indication of how I've progressed. I'd like to see if I can tolerate the selenium, I'll stick with that for a while yet.

Linda, don't stop the iodine. If you can't tolerate 2 drops a day of Lugol's solution, then drop back to one drop, and in a week go to half a drop. Since Lugol's is just iodine salts, you could mix it in your water bottle so that you take it in gradually throgh the day. Half a drop of Lugol's a day will still be replenishing your iodine, but it will take much longer. At least you will be making progress through the duration.

Honestly, you may be making progress with how much iodine you have in your thyroid, but you could be making yourself worse in other areas from mercury redistribution. I would judge this based on your reaction to iodine. Listen to your body and don't keep on taking something that is making you feel sick. If you feel you need iodine then you can even take like 1/5 of a drop of lugols which is still much more than most people get daily.

Remember birdlady? She ended up losing hair and getting a lot sicker from taking large doses of iodine from what I remember.

"Listen to your body and don't keep on taking something that is making you feel sick."

Sometimes that is a healing reaction though. Chelation for example makes my muscles ache and sometimes gives me mild headaches, but I know it is healing me so I do it. The key is that the treatment should make sense, and that while the symptoms from it might be unpleasant, they should still be a level that is tolerable, not something intolerable. Lugol's has 12.5 mg of iodine in 2 drops, so half a drop would provide just over 3 mg of iodine. I guess you could go to 1/5 of a drop if necessary, however imo you should try to take at least half or 1/3 of a drop a day long term.

"Remember birdlady? She ended up losing hair and getting a lot sicker from taking large doses of iodine from what I remember."

I doubt that losing hair was due to iodine intake. In fact, a number of articles mention possible hair loss due to iodine deficiency.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Iodine-and-Hair-Loss&id=1388733

Other articles link hair loss to throid disease, not to iodine intake.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C568849.html

One other thought just occured to me. Iodine is very effective against candida, and a reaction to Lugol's solution might be a candida die off reaction. Diluting the Lugol's greatly(for example adding one drop to a 2 liter water bottle if you drink a liter a day of water) would make the iodine so dilute that it might not trigger a massive candida die off.

I'm pretty sure it was because the massive amount of toxins it released from taking the iodine. I've seen actual studies that show that iodine releases mercury and it doesn't effectively chelate mercury so redistribution risks from it are real.

It is hard to tell the difference between healing reactions and redistribution in the case, so I think caution is very necessary.

I don't think that redistribution is such a great risk, especially if one is continuing to chelate. Without chelation, greatly increased mercury excretion from taking several mg a day of iodine occurs. What mercury that is unbound and not excreted immediately will probably be excreted in the next chelation round. The important thing is that it is going to a more loosely bound state, so that it is on the way out of the body. Many who have mercury toxicity and thyroid problems probably have plenty of mercury clogging up the iodine binding sites on the thyroid.
Taking several grams a day of iodine seems to help dislodge this mercury and other toxic heavy metals from the thyroid. Those who are mercury toxic may also have elevated levels of lead or other toxic heavy metals, as the mercury overwhelmed the natural detoxification channels for excreting heavy metals.

I hear what you both are saying. It's a hard one to call. I would like to take a lot of iodine, after reading about it (I didn't know anything about it before). But I also think the iodine was stirring mercury up, I'm pretty good at judging what my body is telling me. It doesn't seem to make much sense doing that for 3 days off round and feeling spacey and yuck all the time. What's probably best to do is discontinue it for now, see how I go for a round and a rest period without it, add it back in, and note the differences in how I feel.

If your blood levels of mercury are high, which I do believe high doses of iodine would cause, ALA could redistribute mercury to the brain and other sensitive areas. ALA is only safe to use when blood levels are low. This is risky, and caution should be taken. Iodine is important, don't get me wrong, but redistribution is not something to take lightly.

If someone wanted to take higher doses of iodine while mercury poisoned I would reccomend they only take it while doing rounds with DMSA only. This would help excrete the mercury that iodine releases without risking redistribution .

gdawson, do you know if DMSA or ALA will pull mercury out of the thyroid? My most troubling symptoms are mental/emotional and I want to be working on that with ALA. It would be quite some time before I decided to stop the ALA and just use DMSA along with high doses of iodine. If my thyroid is likely to be cleared over time anyway, chelating as I'm doing now, then the iodine can wait.

The blood levels of mercury aren't high if someone is conuously going through chelation cycles. In fact blood mercury levels rise during chelation, so taking iodine supplements just during on days in the chelation cycle is probably not a good idea. I guess there is no easy answer to all of this. As I said before though, iodine is very antifungal, so a reaction to iodine supplementation is likely due to massive candida die off.

Linda, are you taking molybdenum? Detoxifying from acetylaldehyde may help your mental state. Acetylaldehyde is a waste released by candida. If you are sensitive to many perfumes, then it is likely that your body is not properly breaking down aldehydes. Most perfumes are made with aldehydes.
Licorice root tea may also greatly help with mental state and detoxification. I drink a cup or two of licorice root tea most days.

http://candidapage.com/aldehyde.shtml

Linda, there are many interesting links on this page.

http://thyroid-disease.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=87

DMSA is safe to take and recommended with high blood levels of mercury. Thats why I said take it with the iodine.

ALA will literally pull mercury out of anywhere. It crosses cell walls very easily and will enter every organ and gland in the body, including the thyroid. It may not be a fast process, since we have stores of mercury all over the body that need excreted. and it doesn't just target the thyroid.

My plan is to get small amounts of iodine (maybe like 300-500% RDI) while I'm chelating, and once I get more resilient I will use higher doses of iodine.

Linda, this article is very interesting.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/candidayeast.htm

Hi Linda,

Apparenty hormonal issues are related to the control centre in the brain. When you have brain mercury, this upsets the endocrine system. I know mercury does block the action of iodine in the thyroid gland, but also let's not forget what happens from the brain.

I just located what I was after. Check this out:


In a message dated 5/26/00 10:40:28 PM, SHAKYES writes:




Andy's response



Andy Cutler

Onibasu Link: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/1668.html

I hope that's of help. It may also make sense to some people who may have spent a long time trying to detox their mercury, but may not used a proper brain chelating agent and/or not used it for a long enough time (or on the appropriate protocol). I think I come under that catagory

Thanks everyone for all this info, very interesting and helpful. I think I'm bound to be more successful with chelation this time because I'm taking it more seriously (i.e. accepting that I am actually mercury toxic -- this is not a drill) and I know more about what I'm doing. And obviously I'm still learning all the time.

I've been a week without sugar and I had sudden intense cravings the past couple of days. I wonder if I'm having some candida die-off. It would also explain some of the spacey and generally "low" feelings I've had. Is it best just to keep chelating as usual when that happens?

Too many things at once LindaLou. With the iodine, cutting out sugar, and starting chelation. I would wait a few days without taking iodine or chelating and then start another round.

It is probably part die off, probably partly just your body adjusting to not having the carbs.

The problem with doing many things at once, you won't know which one might be causing what. It is likely some die off Linda. Most mercury compromised people have yeast overgrowth - both due to low immunity and yeast apparently proliferates in the presence of metals. Some feel there is a certain amount of protection in this. However, though that might be so, feeding the yeast beyond that point appears to cause big problems also. This is why diet can work very well. It does not aggressively kill a load of yeast off at once like antifungals(which breaks the cell walls and releases yeast toxins and any contained heavy metals into the system and sometimes the person can get acutely poisoned). Diet is natural, it is slower and it simply restricts the intake of sugars/high carbs so any excessive overgrowth can be more easily controlled. It dies off, but much more slowly and not in the same way apparently.

The body also gains further strength from better nutrition.

I'm not sure what to suggest Linda....sometimes chelation can help as any contained metals from the yeast can be grabbed. So in that way it maybe beneficial. However, you also do not want to overwhelm yourself by doing too much at once.

It depends how you feel and what you can handle.

Thanks guys for your contributions. I'm learning that I need to introduce supplements one at a time so that I know how each is affecting me. What's more, things aren't necessarily affecting me the way they used to, so I can't make assumptions. I reintroduced zinc and ended up having some rough days. That may or may not be the zinc but there's no harm in putting it on hold for now, as I have done with the iodine. I've got milk thistle on order, which I avoided in the past because it's expensive here, but I think it will be very helpful for me to take. I've also been able to take some pancreatin digestive enzymes without the problems I've had with other types.

To be honest, the past week or so has been difficult. I had the Sunday where I tried to do a round of 25mg ALA only and had to stop after 5 doses because my stomach was hurting, I had a constant headache and I was nauseous. I did, however, find that some of the "heaviness" and emotional and sensory numbness I'd been feeling has lifted considerably. I therefore rested a day, then started a round of 12.5mg ALA and 6.25mg DMSA. That was good at the beginning, but the heaviness and numbness quickly returned. I attributed this to the iodine trial stirring up extra mercury, which possibly the ALA was letting into my brain -- bad news. I continued to feel like this when I finished the 3-day round, so I started the next round early in order to try to address the remainder of what the iodine might have done.

I felt gradually worse on the round, which I didn't panic about because that is normal. It did concern me that my adrenals were taking a hit, and I felt a few hypothyroid symptoms such as a dry throat and sinuses -- I've had these in the past. I am on medication for adrenals and thyroid but after a year of trial and error I think I'm on optimal doses of both. If I take more of the corticosteroid, it has unpleasant effects. I guess I have to work through this and be glad that I am supported by the meds, because without them I would presumably be doing my body greater harm.

I also found that I was becoming short-tempered and irritable, which I suppose is common too, and for me it's an indication of adrenal stress. I found myself less able to cultivate patience and overlook things. Also I had minor palpitations from time to time, and I had trouble getting to sleep at night -- the opposite problem to what I usually have at this time of year. And I lost my appetite, though that's no big worry because I need to lose weight. I still made sure I ate healthy meals.

Today is my first day off chelation after the second round. I'm finding that I feel more motivated again. My body is not quite so sluggish and achy. I've been able to go around tidying the house, which would have required lots of effort before. So this is good. I think my adrenals will need the full 3 days to recover though. I just hope I can sustain chelation this way. Looks like I've got a lot of time of feeling "yuck" ahead of me yet.

Linda, when I was in still relatively early days of mercury detox and trying to chelate - I had plenty of difficult and confusing times and rounds that were different from other rounds and not knowing what was often causing what.

I think it's the time inbetween when you start to notice "something" is happening or maybe improving, but it is so often replaced by yet more of the same bad symptoms, so you feel like the rug has pulled back out from under you. This seems to be the pattern of mercury detox, so it is very difficult sometimes to hang in there.

I think it is a good sign however that you have noticed some changes inbetween chelation - even if they are not long lasting, it does show something is occuring. It takes a LONG time of detoxing mercury before improvements become lengthier, better, and more stabilised, rather than sporadic and temporary. I think you're wise in watching the iodine intake, as indeed it can certainly stir up metals. And in doing so, what happens when ALA gets hold of them.....I guess we're all mostly working in the dark over some of these things and if we're not certain enough about something, it's better to play it safe.

DMSA should help chelate some of the stirred up metals from iodine out a bit more safely perhaps than ALA which goes into the brain. So if you have another one of those, you may want to finish off with DMSA instead. It seems a good one to clear mobilised mercury and seem to stablise things again.

Thanks for keeping us posted on how things are going. Let's hope for the best outcome.

That's very kind of you Bex, thanks.

It hasn't helped that I'm supposed to be resting my adrenals and I've spent the last hour frantically sifting through online costume shops, trying to get a hobbit costume for my daughter to wear to school on World Book Day, which is two days away. I've also had to buy her a Victorian costume for their Victorian field trip in a few weeks' time. I don't think the school realises the pressure it puts parents under when it says "dress your kids up." I have absolutely nothing at home that would work for her to wear and I don't sew.

The irritability, adrenal fatigue, constant stimulation etc are probably why I've found myself embroiled yet again on a certain forum. I was doing well with simply reading patiently before.

I'll keep things updated here, fingers crossed that all will be OK. it helps to talk to others who have been through this experience. I tend to over-analyse things, which can tie me in knots when I'm dealing with symptoms.

Bex, if you're there, can you remember how you felt between your first rounds of chelation? My memory of mine is hazy but I have a memory of feeling better on chelation and a little worse when resting.

It's just that the past couple of "rest" days have been rough. I'm quite fatigued, especially in the evenings. My stomach is upset off and on, again particularly in the evenings, and the headache sneaks back a little at that time too. I was having mild palpitations and racing heart (90 bpm when resting) and experienced that briefly today, though it seems to be dying down -- my feeling is that it was connected with a long release of adrenaline. My insomnia's got worse. It wasn't too bad before. I hadn't expected this to be going on between rounds.

I've been taking some pancreatin digestive enzymes and thought I was OK with them because they haven't caused the gastrointestinal upset that other digestive enzymes have; they are enteric coated to be effective in the small intestine. I'll stop those, and the selenium too, and see if either of those has been contributing to this, though I'm not sure why they would. I'm only taking 200mcg of selenium.

I've resolved to be brave this time and not allow fears to make me stop chelating. I'm just concerned. The positive effects from those first couple of days of chelation, with ALA alone and later with ALA/DMSA, have completely vanished. I'm hoping that someone with chelation experience can tell me that this can just be the way it goes for a while and that I haven't done something horrible to myself.

Hi Linda,

For me it differed. If I recall correctly. I sometimes felt worse on round and it was difficult for me to keep chelating. I would sometimes experience a feeling of being almost drugged and very tired. I did feel something happening. Other times I might get an increase in depression and start crying. Sometimes I felt more hyped up....other times it settled my symptoms. There were rounds that I would feel the symptoms increase by the day and I'd feel so ill by about the 4th day,that I was often unable to chelate for a full week. (this is when I used to try doing the one week on, one week off).



The symptoms during the years of healing from mercury can be distressing to say the least. Sometimes, just when you think you're improving, you can feel the sense of being dragged back where you started (or worse). Also, when you are inbetween rounds, this does not mean mercury is still not coming out. Some is, and some is being reabsorbed until the next round. So symptoms can continue or be worse on occassion. Or of course, you can feel better. There doesn't seem to be any clear repeated pattern.

Expect that your usual symptoms will often be exaggerated. As healing takes place, the symptoms in the areas of trouble can be worse. You can feel you are not healing, but deteriorating. This is where it becomes challenging to continue. It feels either fruitless, or things just feel worse. I had many times of this. Even without chelation, I did too, but perhaps less intense.



It's possible they maybe contributing. Definitely stop them and see. But keep on with the chelation if you can. It's the most important! Chelation is what gets a person well, not supplements. They can help and support the healing process though - if they are the ones we require. I had to stop a number of supplements because I reacted quite badly very easily. I gather that can also be typical with mercury toxicity.

I sometimes started and stopped a number of times. I mainly took vitamin C, vitamin E and selenium. But the selenium was the one I often had to take a break from. So it's definitely one that can cause issues with people.



Yes, please keep chelating Linda if you can. Do not expect each round to be the same. Because the process of mercury elimination never usually is. You can have very difficult rounds, that can leave you feeling awful and wondering why bother? Then you can feel lifted again another time. But this will continue until enough mercury is gone to where you start to truly feel better and for longer periods of time and hopefully permanently.

You haven't done anything horrible to yourself. This is the way it can go, not just for awhile, but sometimes LONG periods of time. This poison is extremely volatile in what it can do to your mind/hormones/emotions. It's changeable, which I guess is why they call behaviours that are changeable "mercurial".

It is typical for a poisoned person to feel very down to it and feel like they have damaged themselves. It is typical to react to different supplements to where you no longer know what is doing what. Starting/stopping etc. This all brings back ALOT of memories for me.

I am still going to get the ALA very very soon. My next lot of supplements I buy will include it. I'm nervous, but in a way, I'm hopeful. So who knows what will happen?

But I relate much to what you are going through here. It is a very slow and very rocky process.

Linda, you did say you are on a low carb diet? The fatigue might be at least in part due to large fluctuations in blood sugar levels. Instead of eating 2 or 3 large meals a day, you could try eating 5 or 6 smaller ones and see if this helps you feel better. eating cinnamon also helps to keep blood sugar levels more stable.

During chelation, my mood is often elevated, however I also often have much more physical aches and pains. Some claim that if the last few chelation doses on a ALA+DMSA regimen are DMSA only, then they don't have such bad symptoms between chelation rounds.

Are you taking molybdenum? I find that molybdenum helps greatly to minimize general chemical sensitivity. So does plenty of b vitamins.

I've read about molybdenum on Andy's site but fortunately chemical sensitivity and allergies are symptoms I've been spared. I do take lots of B vitamins. I recently tried to cut out the CoQ10 because I never noticed it making a difference for me -- bad move. Whether it's helping a little, a lot or not at all, my body is depending on it now. I was trying to save some money because this whole process gets expensive, and I've also been seeing two healers. I think I'm going to discontinue with the herbalist for now because I know what I need to be doing and more or less how to do it.

I did wonder if the paleolithic diet was contributing to this. I'm not sure about blood sugar issues though . . . when I started paleo several years ago, I felt better straight away apart from some sugar cravings at first, which went away. I seem to need a fairly high amount of protein and fat and that would keep me full. I'm back to doing that now, and I still eat plenty of veg (which are carbs). Maybe getting rid of the sugar after such a long time of eating a lot of it, has been a jolt to my system. Whenever I tried to quit before I'd end up feeling so awful that I'd go back to it. That hasn't happened this time largely because I have no appetite. Almost 2 weeks without sugar now; I don't think I managed that long in a year or so -- that was when I made a determined effort to kill possible candida. (I attacked it with an antifungal, caprylic acid and raw garlic but didn't get die-off symptoms so I figured it wasn't a problem. I'd also had a negative test for candida antibodies.)

Bex, thanks for the reassurance. It helps to know that others have been through this (though I'm sorry for that). I'm going to stick with it. I hope cutting the supplements out tomorrow will help.

When you start the ALA, would you like to do a thread about your own experience? I'd be interested and I'm sure everyone here would love to support you. Best of luck

Linda, are you taking sublingual B12? B12 can help greatly with the mental and emotional state, as so many mercury toxic people are B12 deficient, and have trouble absorbing B12 supplements that are swallowed. Some even get B12 injections, although that is annoying, and can get expensive. There are also B12 patches, although few stores sell them. You could probably get them on the net. I have not tried them. Nasal B12 gel works pretty well, however it is hard to find now. I used it many years ago.

Thanks JK, I've tried it. No real help.

If you're after nasal spray, Mercola sells some.

No problem Linda. Definitely don't give up. Breaks are fine, but don't throw the towel in. I think the ALA will be working on the organ mercury you may have a big storage of and the symptoms are not usually suppressed with ALA chelation. DMSA may help somewhat, but will not cancel them out entirely.

Yeah, I'll report what happens with the ALA. Though not sure if I should start a thread on it, as my past trials of ALA lead to "nothing" except some worst yeast.....so I'm not sure whether that is going to be very interesting for people to read lol. I'll just post or add to a post as I see anything occuring.

I have been very bad on my diet recently. I cheated/binged big time. Fed up with how I was feeling following the probiotic use. Nothing was really abating much. I just got fed up. It's been an interesting test. I must say (unless I'm speaking too soon), I think that perhaps the probiotics may have done something afterall. I have not detected quite the same impact of cheating that I used to. I felt worst after it almost immediately this time, but I didn't take long to start bouncing back. Whereas in the past? I'd not notice the effects so quickly, but they would hit the next day and I'd take weeks to improve again. But again, it's still early days, so the test is still on to see how I go as I'm back on my good diet today.

So is this coincidence? Perhaps over time I have eliminated more toxins too (I noted that exercise would produce a feeling of metals coming out), and I'm sure that is part of it. But I do wonder if the probiotics may well have planted a bit more good bacteria there and maybe there is a bit more assertive action going on down there? Even though they have created utter havoc in me and much suffering in the process. I've also not noticed the strange sleepiness that used to come over me (post antibiotics) and that would wipe me out and cause me to lie down on my bed for a rest and then go into a deep sleep which I would not wake up from till morning. I don't notice that now....well not as much. I'm back on my good diet today, so I'll see where that takes me.

I would really like to include a few other things in my diet like non gluten grain and limited fruit intake. I'm hoping I can try those out at some point. I'm going back to being strict and then I'll try introducing some natural carbs (instead of doing a binge on the bad stuff). If it turns out I can? Then I'll have to concede that the probiotics have indeed done something positive. However, I have gone through hell for 2 months now following their use. So they have possibly erupted a load of toxins/bad bacteria which my body has struggled to cope with ever since.

Also there is the risk of the methylation of mercury too. But ever since a course of antibiotics was given to me about 2 years ago for severe complication from a flu (infection), I have had big issues. Even a natural healthy cheat on a piece of fruit would then send me into a complete relapse (taking about 8 weeks to recover from). That was never the case before the antibiotics. Once I had control of my yeast, a cheat would only take me a day to recover from. So the difference was marked after antibiotics and it was not something I was recovering from either. That is NO way to live. So I think I needed to do something and probiotics seemed the best thing at the time. Maybe it was? I don't know. I may need to take more of it if that's the case, but I'm not in any hurry.

Nasal Gel I heard is one of the best, www.doctoryourself.com just says to crush up the pill and then make a paste out of it with a drop of water and then put it on the sides of the inside of your nose, don't know how effective that is but it's alot cheaper than gel or shots. Subilingual he says is not very good nor gets absorbed well, don't know how true that is but it's worth a look.

Topics like this one sound quacky, so let's set the matter straight from the start:

If you do not like getting shots of B-12, you should be aware that intranasal absorption is the next best thing. Oral administration of B-12 is largely ineffective. This goes for so-called sublingual B-12 supplements as well.

VITAMIN B-12, unlike other B vitamins, is stored in muscle and other organs of the body. A little B-12 goes a long way, what is stored lasts a long time, and it may take YEARS to deplete your body’s reserves. But sooner or later, usually later (after age 40), not only do poor eating habits catch up with us, but we also lose the ability to efficiently absorb what B-12 we do get from food.

COBALAMIN is the proper name for vitamin B-12. It is a really huge molecule (C 63, H 90, O 14, P, Co). The "Co" is for the one cobalt atom at its core. B-12 is obtained mostly, but not exclusively, by eating animal products such as dairy and meat. If you therefore think that you have to eat meat to get your B-12, consider this: Where do grass-and-grain-eating cattle get THEIR vitamin B-12? From synthesis by microorganisms in their gastrointestinal tract, that's where. And such synthesis in vegetarian animals is so tremendous that their milk and flesh is OUR source of B-12. But it all actually came from their bacteria.

Yes, B-12 is also synthesized in the human GI tract, but not reliably enough for most people. Such synthesis as occurs may be enhanced by a good vegetarian diet that favors an internal population of beneficial, B-12 making bacteria.

But with our diets, we will need more than they can provide. Nutritional yeast, fermented soy foods such as tempeh, and sprouts (according to some sources) are vegetarian sources of dietary B-12.

But there still is a physiological hurdle to cross.

Absorption of dietary B-12 takes place in the very last part of the small intestine, right before the colon. Absorption requires a biochemical helper molecule called “intrinsic factor,” which is a glycoprotein normally secreted by cells lining your stomach. Strong stomach hydrochloric acid is also required to split up this huge molecule. (That's why a weak acid like vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is harmless to B-12, persistent myths to the contrary).

Incidentally, even sublingual (under-the-tongue) B-12 supplements are probably ineffective because the cobalamin molecule is too large to diffuse through the mucosa of the mouth.

And if your body no longer makes intrinsic factor like it should, you cannot absorb oral B-12 supplements very well, either.

The end result can be pernicious anemia, which is more than the classical inability to make enough hemoglobin for your red blood cells. Pernicious anemia also results in a sore mouth and tongue, assorted burning and tingling sensations (paresthesia), and eventually neurologic damage. I think Meniere’s, and dementia symptoms mistaken for Alzheimer’s disease, might be a manifestation of this.

While there is a urine test for B-12 deficiency (the "isotope-dilution assay for urinary methylmalonic acid"), to get it right it is necessary to measure the cerebrospinal fluid, not the blood, to get accurate B-12 readings. If you are not a Spinal Tap fan, consider a simple, non-invasive therapeutic trial of B-12. This is so inexpensive and safe that it would be difficult to deny it to anyone. I would suggest your doctor try a 1,000 microgram (mcg) injection at least once a week. Compared to the US RDA of only about 3 mcg, that dose may appear rather hefty. But given the miserable nature of Meniere’s, erring on the high side may be preferable to unnecessarily delaying recovery. And l know of no side effects whatsoever to B-12 overdose.

If you do not like the idea of getting shots of B-12, you should be aware that intra-nasal (that is, by way of the nose) absorption is the next best thing. It sounds pretty weird, as duly promised at the beginning of this section, but it is an efficient delivery method for large-sized molecules whether you like the sound of it or not.

Your nose has two choices:

1) Buy ready-to-use, over-the-counter B-12 gel, which you will occasionally find for sale in a pharmacy or health food store. Some products come in individual disposable packets. These are pricey.

2) Make your own B-12 intra-nasal supplement. It is cheap, easy and best done behind closed doors. Obtain your doctor’s OK before trying this procedure. Take any B-12 tablet (between 100 to 1,000 mcg) and grind it into a powder between two tablespoons. Add water, just a few drops at a time, to make a soft paste. With a “Q-Tip,” its generic equivalent, or your clean pinkie finger, gently swab the paste inside your nose up to a comfortable level. Do not push; use no force whatsoever. The excipients (tableting ingredients) are more likely to bother your schnoz than the B-12 is. If it irritates you, try using less, or a different brand of tablet. I’d try this two times a week for a month or two.

Feel free to quit at any time, and get B-12 shots instead. Once in a great while, doctors (such as “Children’s Doctor” Lendon H. Smith, M.D.) will even teach you how to give yourself your B-12 shots, but that remains a singularly rare event.

Hence this nose news.

Other websites claim that sublingual B12 is effective.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T39005.html

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/formula

Linda, are you taking copper and zinc supplements? DMSA causes the loss of zinc and copper. These are needed for proper throid functioning.

http://articles.webraydian.com/arti...opper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Do not add an extra copper supplement if you are taking alpha lipoic acid, which increases copper inside the body. I'm not sure about zinc however.

I know you're taking DMSA, but there is a risk of copper excessive copper with ALA. Also the combination of copper and mercury toxicity is far worse than just mercury apparently.

It is probably much safer to simply get enough food that naturally contains some of these elements, rather than supplement them if you're not certain of what effects they may have. Copper is a difficult one, especially when you're taking ALA.

Molybdenum supplementation also causes a loss of copper.

Linda, do you get enough copper?

http://health2us.com/zn_cu.htm

Hi Bex,

Thanks for your input here. I really hope the ALA helps you -- have you started it yet?

By the way, here's what I do when I take my nighttime dose. I have a dawn simulator which takes half an hour to gradually come on. Usually the light will wake me very gently before the alarm goes off. I reach over, pick up my cup with my dose, take the lid off and drink it, then roll over and go back to sleep. I still feel it in the morning but it's certainly endurable.

If you've been a mum then this is a piece of cake anyway, LOL.

Thanks to the others here for making suggestions too. Yes, I tried copper a while back. It made me sick. To be honest, I went downhill when I tweaked my supplements recently and what I'm doing works OK for me now, so I have no desire to mess about with it again for now. I did start taking milk thistle and I seem to be getting on with that OK.

This round I decided to go with my gut feeling and increase both chelators, so now I'm on 25mg ALA and 12.5mg DMSA. I'm aware that Andy Cutler would not recommend this and it was a risk, but I'm trying to trust my intuition more these days. I've been fine, no worse than before. I feel weird at times and the insomnia has worsened, but this is better than I felt without the chelators. I'm still fatigued all the time, but somehow I have more motivation to get up and do things. I'm still sticking to the no-sugar plan and I've cooked all kinds of nice things, mainly different kinds of curries. I also made homemade chicken stock this weekend, which is a big operation. I haven't done that in over a year and during that time, I could only dream of being able to do it.

I'm now wondering where I should end the round. I was a little late in taking one nighttime dose (forgot to set the alarm) and I woke up with redistribution symptoms. I've always felt better on chelation. See how I go, but I think I'll carry on tomorrow, which would be day 4 of the round.

I'm in the same boat...I tinkered with supplements a lot and had so many adverse reactions that I'm just sticking with the ones that work and pushing ahead with chelation because its been helping.

I guess I'm lucky...my sleep actually feels deeper and more restful when I'm on round, even though I wake up every 3-4 hours I feel better rested in the morning. Honestly, chelation is a pleasure for me...as long as I keep the dose moderate otherwise my increased energy during round turns into fatigue...the only downside of chelating for me is the day after stopping.

I have been meaning to try a pineal glandular, but I had to get a wisdom tooth extracted this week and am still in pain and really just want to it get better so I can get back to chelating. Certainly not a good time to be testing new supplements...I've also actually had to take pain relievers which is something I haven't taken for over 4 years.

Good luck with listening to your intuition, I always try to listen to mine more and more but its not always easy.

I hear you. I've been reading a book which says that intuition is the voice of the soul, and it's rarely steered me wrong, so I think it's about time I really did listen more.

Sounds like both of us get similar effects from chelation. My mind is still tied in knots over this. I stopped chelation before because I thought the ALA and DMSA were doing something weird to me; that I didn't actually have mercury poisoning, and the chelating agents had become addictive or were forcing my adrenals to work or something. It was amazing how I felt that night when I woke up with redistribution symptoms. I wanted to press on with the round anyway, and not long after I took my dose I felt miles better. There's something a little spooky about that.

What is a pineal glandular? Is it different from an adrenal glandular?

Hope you're feeling better from the tooth extraction soon -- sounds painful

I actually meant pituitary glandular...oops. The pituitary is kinda like the master of the endocrine glands and is right above the roof of your mouth at the base of the brain.

Ya the wisdom tooth is pretty painful. I think its getting better though, these things just take longer than I would like. I get antsy when I can't chelate.

I think part of the reason people run into problems when chelating is that they don't take enough mineral supplements. Those who are mercury toxic are mineral deficient, and chelation causes a loss of zinc and copper which are vital elements. i am now taking copper and zinc between chelation rounds, although perhaps I should be taking them through rounds as well?

"Just as copper is important for thyroid function, zinc too is needed to prevent thyroid problems. Zinc is involved in the process that converts inactive hormone T4 into active hormone T3. An excess of inactive thyroid hormones in the body can lead to an under active thyroid gland. An Italian study showed that patients suffering with hypothyroidism gained improved thyroid function by supplementing their diet with extra zinc."

......


"Copper plays an important role in thyroid metabolism, especially in hormone production and absorption. Copper stimulates the production of the thyroxine hormone (T4), and prevents over-absorption of T4 in the blood cells by controlling the body’s calcium levels (Calcium is required for the stabilization of cell membranes and reduces cell permeability).

Besides this, copper is also required for the synthesis of phospholipids, (a class of fats) that are found in the myelin sheaths that insulates nerves to protect them. Phospholipids are required for the stimulation of TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone). Therefore correct levels are needed to prevent thyroid problems, and can be used in the treatment of thyroid disease.
"

http://articles.webraydian.com/arti...opper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Bingo! Minerals are the key. I go to curezone and a guy there called Moreless talks all about minerals and how to get them and their PH balancing effect (Magnesium, Calcium and Potassium etc.). Chelating or doing any detox without hte proper amount of minerals can tax the body and the detox can actually make you alot worse, your body needs the strength to fight the acids and poisons detox causes, so alkaline minerals beforehand can be huge before doing any kind of cleanse and for overall health. JK you always have good takes in here, it's been nice talking with you on here as me and you use the same approach pretty much. I need it pick up the cayenne again soon though, it's truly great stuff.

Thanks. So many here focus on copper toxicity, but the reality is that copper deficiency is a much greater concern for many people, so unless someone here knows they have too much copper, then taking some copper supplements(don't overdo it though) is a good idea. I knew that copper is need to make hemoglobin, but didn't find out until today that copper is involved in thyroid function and in synthesizing phospholipids. I also knew that molybdenum supplements decrease copper levels, so I know that I need to take copper supplements. I am taking just 2.5 mg a day, and only on off days.

Vitamin B12 is also so important. I am using the sublingual tablets since I can't find the nasal gel, but dissolved a tablet today into a paste, and put it in my nose. It was more effective than under my tongue. I feel a surge of energy almost immediately from the B12, and using it nasally seems to work best. Many years ago I used the nasal gel, but it seems like the gel is no longer available.

There ya go! I posted that link before to the nasal gel, it can save you alot of money too and it works good. I like doing the nose thing, atleast three times a week is needed IMO. You get that surge immediately like you said, you can just feel it and it's second best to shots IMO and alot safer and cheaper.

A lot of people seem to be finding this conversation useful. JK or Sean, maybe you could start a thread about mineral supplementation?

I will tomorrow Linda! Thanks for bringing that up, I was going to anyways, good stuff.

"There's also some evidence (once again not conclusive) that high supplemental doses of vitamin C—in a range approaching 1,000 milligrams or more—may decrease copper availability"

"Because copper is necessary for the utilization of iron, iron deficiency anemias may be a symptom of copper deficiency. "





http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=53

Hi Linda,



No problem!

I haven't got any ALA yet, but I'll let you know when I do and what happens (if anything). I won't be taking large doses, but I'll be taking a good substantial dose.

Your alarm sounds so much more...forgiving! Mine is ok, it's just a light beeping, rather than a penetrating one that wakes you up violently. I always wake up with it. I don't turn the alarm off, I reset it there and then. If I turn it off, it's too high on the cards I'll just forget to turn it back on after I reset it or fall back to sleep before doing much at all.



Why would Andy not agree with this? It sounds fine to me. As long as you're taking both every 3 hours - that is the crucial part. And as long as you're not fiddling with the doses during a round.

I'm glad you are coping ok on this and you're noticing an increase in motivation! That's a good sign. Have you thought of taking the same dose of both chelators? 25 mg of each? Or is it more economical to take less of DMSA? I'm hoping that your persistant fatigue will begin to lift in time. I guess that can be brain mercury too. When you consider it's the control centre.



I think you can take these up to a week or so if you wish. For some it's easier and more convenient just to do 3 day rounds (which can be done on weekends if a person works or is busy during week days). I have taken late doses before. It depends how late and if it's too late, it's better to stop the round. I've suffered redistribution before. I had a horrible backlash from one once when I was not treating candida and the redistribution from a very late dose of DMSA was enough to cause big problems in my gut. I could not tolerate DMSA after that until I treated candida. Then I was able to resume DMSA. But at the time, I didn't know what was happening to me. I was a mess. I blamed DMSA, I blamed the protocol (even though I screwed up on it myself). But it was both mercury and candida that were screwing me up.

I think longer chelating rounds are always beneficial, as long as they are not TOO long. Because of loss of sleep and how minerals get depleted through the stress of chelating metals out. So one must have breaks in order to replenish themselves. Plus I think things continue to happen inbetween rounds. Like me, when I exercise - I notice effects the day or days afterwards like a sense of metals trying to come out. Usually it's the rest times that I notice the impact of what's happened and my body is still trying to push toxins out. Exercise seems to set that off.

Hi Bex,

Thanks as always for sharing your experiences. You're right in a way, I'm taking half the amount of DMSA as ALA because the DMSA costs so much. Though it really seems to work this way; I haven't had anything like the problems I had that day when I took ALA alone. Gut problems have vanished now, and no headaches.

I just know how "strict" they are at FDC and I know they wouldn't condone what I've done; one of their rules is that you should never increase a chelator by more than half of the dose, and you should increase them one at a time. They advise people to go really slowly with things. It's a cautious approach that no doubt helps many people, but I personally don't have the patience for it and I think my body is OK to go faster than that.

As for how long to keep the round going . . . not sure. I'm a bit frightened of redistribution symptoms. But what you just said has made me think again. Maybe it's best to let my body rest once in a while. I certainly am fatigued. Cycling to and from work is pretty tough right now.

I'm also being revisited by other old symptoms. The insomnia is ongoing. I had been really pleased to find that during the depths of winter, when the SAD is worst, I haven't had the early evening sleepiness/early morning waking, and it was wonderful to be alert in the evenings. I've given that back up now, it's sleepytime at 8pm and I usually wake up at 4am, though I can at least get back to sleep. The absentmindedness has returned too, and I have to be extra careful about that.

Inroads have not yet been made with emotional numbness, hormone balances or neurotransmitters, as far as I can tell. This is where I really need help the most. It's "brain" stuff but the ALA seems to be taking its time. I'm doing my best to have faith.

Actually, I've been reading a book that says we should be making positive affirmations about this stuff. By declaring all these symptoms to exist, and by saying "I need" and "I want," these thoughts will draw that to me -- the symptoms, and me being in need and want. I should be saying, "I am enjoying wonderful health." I can't quite manage that, so I'm saying, "Wonderful and deep healing and health are coming to me now." And I get rid of every negative thought contrary to this.

It is very hard!
Erm, I mean it's simple and natural . . . yeah . . .

I was feeling quite fatigued, so I decided to take a chelation break starting today. The redistribution is awful. I've felt like crying for no reason all day, I have brain fog that includes troublesome forgetfulness (that I was developing during chelation anyway), my stomach is bothering me, I'm anxious . . . etc. I think I'd rather stay on chelation and deal with being tired, than have to put up with this. Yuck.

well...on the positive side LindaLou, you can be sure that you are mercury toxic and that mercury is the source of your problems. I'm not sure what to tell you...Its good to see how you react to a little higher dose rounds but sometimes its better to go back to more moderate doses.

Hm. The thing is, apart from the redistribution, I've been OK. It's starting to settle down a bit now, but the morning was difficult.

I guess the question I'm left with is, when do I get to feel the mercury leaving my brain? Maybe time will tell. I'm very, very keen to get some relief from feeling half-human all the time.

after 10 rounds of ALA Andy says you should notice an intellectual change....meaning that you can tell your brain is functioning more properly.

I personally end rounds with a few doses of DMSA only to help mop up the mercury pulled out by ALA. Sometimes I even do a whole day of DMSA only. Andy said this was ok.

If you handled it well, and recover fast, I would stick with this dosage. See how you feel in a day. Otherwise maybe try ~17mg ALA (which would be 1/3 of a 50mg capsule, or 16.66).

It's not so bad now actually. Some lingering brain fog and depressive symptoms, but they've been gradually clearing.

I've thought of a plan for next time, as the worst of it seems to have lasted about 12 hours. I will take my last dose of the round at 7pm and sleep it off as best I can. It's awkward having brain fog in the day because I inevitably forget something at work or at home.

10 rounds, you say? Would that be rounds of 3 days each? It would be such a relief to see that this is working. My symptoms are clustered around my nervous and endocrine system. My brain must have sucked most of the mercury up and it's just sitting in there. I probably have a lot to get rid of from childhood too.

Thanks, I will soldier on!

yes, intellectual improvement after 10 (3)day rounds when using ALA. I certainly noticed feeling more mentally clear and cheerful after 10 rounds.

Mind you, I already chelated for 6 months with ALA, the last 2 with a dose of 100mg. No real improvements after the initial clearance of extra mercury from amalgam removal -- but FDC say I was in the "stall period," where I wasn't feeling any better but the mercury was gradually clearing out.

I tell you what, when I finally do notice some improvement, I will be celebrating big time.

Update on my progress. In short -- fantastic!

About 6 weeks ago, I suddenly experienced a spell of feeling better than I've felt the whole 4 1/2 years I've been ill. It's perhaps what "normal" feels like, though it's been so long that I've honestly forgotten -- though there seems to be an underlying sense of peace that I have never before experienced. This feeling stayed with me for about 10 days and then I went on holiday to Scotland with my folks, which we didn't want to do but obliged. My clean diet suffered there and stress got to me a bit. Furthermore, I think I chelated too long -- I haven't been worrying about how long a round lasts -- and when I took a break, I felt pretty bad. I went back on after just 2 days and my adrenals complained a lot. Right now I am having a good week's rest and I've felt my adrenals settle a little more day by day.

More good things happened during the holiday, even after I "lost my balance." We went out to do some hill walking and I climbed some steep areas with little effort. I am so used to my limbs being leaden that this came as quite a pleasant surprise. Also, we drove for many hours on 3 separate days and with the aid of a little extra adrenal med, plus Bach's Rescue Remedy, I was fine! Last summer, the 3 hours' drive to and from Wales made me very sick.

What's more, that warm peaceful feeling is coming and going now. It doesn't seem dependent on a clean diet, which I've been struggling to get back into balance since the holiday. It doesn't seem dependent on stress levels (which are fairly high because my husband and I both have concerns about our jobs). I feel rubbish off and on, but I keep getting these spells of feeling wonderful and peaceful, like everything is right with the world. The most logical conclusion seems to be that this is how things will increasingly be for me as I carry on with chelation, though I've done a lot of complementary therapy and spiritual work that have undoubtedly been helping too.

I still take 25mg ALA and 12.5mg DMSA with every dose and I may as well keep it that way since it's working well. I recently tried to cut down on my adrenal medication but I'm obviously not ready for that yet. I think I'll need to continue taking it at this level while I am chelating, as chelation is hard on my system.

Various symptoms are still with me, particularly hormonal imbalances, but if I'm feeling like this now then I'm sure these will get sorted out, too, in time.

The future is looking very good. I'm excited and very, very grateful. I hope to continue to report positive news here -- watch this space!

Hello,

Thank you very much for posting your progress. I believe this proves that the Andy Cutler Protocol does really work.

Please continue to spread the word. There are still many sick people here on this board that don't know how to cure mercury poisoning.

I'm glad you are feeling more alive LindaLou! Chelation is obviously making a difference in your life and quite fast in my opinion. Keep it up.

I am making pretty good progress here as well. Not very easy to define, just overall feeling even more optimistic and happy, but still have quite a number of symptoms to get rid of.

The future is looking bright!

Thanks both of you for your replies, and gdawson I'm glad you are feeling better. It can be hard when you feel you are making little or no progress. That was why I stopped chelation a year ago. That was a mistake but at least I'm putting it right.

I'm going to be doing this for quite a while yet, and it's a real yo-yo. I was going slightly downhill day to day during my week off chelation, and yesterday I felt ready to start another round. It's been a shock to my system though. Hopefully in a day or two I will have adjusted. Based on how I've been reacting to chelation, I'm aiming for two-week rounds with a week's break in between. At least I've had those spells of feeling so much better, so I will not get discouraged again.

Part of this may well include having to get my diet back on track. It seems the hardest thing in the world sometimes. I had six weeks of a clean diet, of which I am very proud, and I cooked some great things from recipe books. Since that chocolate shop on holiday, though, I can't keep myself away from the stuff. When I started back on chelation I got an upset stomach and wasn't all that interested in food, so it was easy. Not so easy now. Chocolate is the devil's food, LOL.

Actually, I seem to be struggling during this round. It feels like my adrenals are not coping very well. I wonder what happened? Perhaps two weeks on and one week off is rather ambitious. During the previous long round, though, I never felt any effects until I actually came off the round.

Things are fairly relaxed for me at the moment, work much less stressful. My adrenals tend to conk out in those circumstances; a bit of stress seems to get them running. Maybe that's what the problem is, and they aren't responding to the demands that chelation is putting on me.

Like I said, a real yo-yo!

Hi Linda,

It's very normal to have this happen with mercury. In fact, it is one of the tell tale signs is the roller coaster rides. Up and down. Which is why it makes it so very very hard.

Also you can have good or bad rounds, so you don't know how you are going to be always from one round to another. E.g. you can feel better ON round sometimes and other times you feel better OFF round. Then it can change again.

Unfortunately as you know, mercury is often responsible for the endocrine problems many of us have. So it is a many edged sword. What you need to deal with the mercury is being hampered by the mercury itself. This includes the organs of elimination too. This is why mercury is so difficult to treat.

Linda,

I tried some longer rounds recently and had a rough time afterwards as well. I think they may be extra hard on the adrenals. I think I will stick to 3-4 day rounds because a 6 day round made me feel like my adrenals crashed a bit afterward. I never could really figure out my adrenals, I don't respond well to ACE at all, and I am capable of exerting myself, but if I do exert myself too much I will feel dull, dumb, and tired for a few days. I've tried many things but the best thing for my adrenals is just keeping exercise limited to walking a few miles a day...and I don't dare to run or ride a bike otherwise I know I will be paying for it for a few days afterward.

But my adrenals don't have any problem to 3 or 4 day rounds so i have to stick with those for a while...even though I was hoping to be able to do 2 week rounds as well!

Thanks Bex -- yes, this is an unpredictable journey!

gdawson I think you're right in paying attention to your body's responses and acting accordingly. It sounds like our adrenals are in similar states. I can't exercise too hard either and I wish I had more time for walking in pleasant places. Do you know what the biggest adrenal stress has been for me lately? Bet you'd never guess. It's doing jigsaw puzzles. I did one over Christmas which really whacked me. I started doing one over Easter and recognised the response, had to take it apart and put it away. I enjoy doing puzzles but it must be something about the intense concentration for long periods of time. It's a shame. This sort of thing only started when I came off my antidepressant 3 years ago. That damaged my adrenals more than anything else and healing is slow (though it is happening). I hope my response to heat has improved for this summer. Warmish-to-hot days make me sick, and there's no air con here.

I just ended my own round last night, after 3 days. It was one of the hardest rounds I've done. I felt tearful and anxious the whole time, and craving chocolate like mad. Better today now that I'm off. Like you, I'll just listen to my body and try to judge what's best. Stress levels affect things as well. Due to these scrappage deals in Europe for old car trade-ins, and some diligent saving since I started working again last year, we've just managed to buy a nice little car that will get 62 mpg. I had no idea how stressful the old car was, until we sorted this out today. We've had some hefty repair bills on it and even if I hadn't consciously been thinking about it, it was always in the back of my mind: what's that weird noise? What bit will stop working next? What's going to fall off? (We were losing part of the rear bumper.) No worries now for several years at least. And not long after we made the deal and set off for home, I noticed that I was feeling relieved, and the chocolate cravings were gone. Now if I can just sort my job out for next autumn, I'll be the most laid-back person around LOL.

I'm trying to keep a positive attitude always, and that is undoubtedly keeping me feeling much better than I was several months ago. I visualise myself as being healthy, I think about what I will do and how I will feel. I am also looking at life and our purpose here in a different way. All of this helps.

Again, fingers crossed Full steam ahead.

Hi Linda,

When I was detoxing mercury, I used to get a few rounds where I would be tearful and anxious also - depressed too. I would take this as a positive, though it feels like a negative. Looks like you are definitely shifting mercury.

The difficulty of this is how slow it seems to take and the symptoms that occur during the process of slow healing are very very difficult at times to endure. And also the ups and downs. Just when you think you feel better, you can often be hit down again. I had that often during my healing process and it was almost torture.

It's commendable that you are trying to keep a good, positive attitude. Which is a real challenge when mercury can be such a strong dictator of feelings/emotions and outlook. I remember I could not even detect colours well, because the world to me looked darker - like looking at everything through a dirty windscreen. I used to get quite a fright when I felt better and suddenly everything looked colourful, brighter and the world was really quite exciting. It's very sad at what toxins like this can do to people. And their apparent negativity is not of their true selves.

I think it was Hal Huggins who said that the one thing about mercury that makes him most angry is how it induces suicidal thoughts in many of its victims. I can attest to that! Though not everybody gets the same symptoms with mercury - some get more physical symptoms than mental. Some get both, some get mainly psychological symptoms.

Depending I suppose where the mercury is and what's happening and of course, genetic tendencies/weaknesses etc.

Take care!

I read before the craving for chocolate is your body really craving for Magnesium! Have you heard that before Linda? Maybe you can up that too in the meantime to assist chelation?

Carbohydrates boost serotonin levels. Perhaps you could try taking licorice root, which also boosts serotonin levels. Using licorice root tea and putting cinnamon on your food may help decrease the cravings for sugar.

I hope things are picking up Linda! I took a small break from chelation to test a few supplements and I actually found one that had really good effects on me, which surprised me since I don't tolerate most supplements well. It was astaxanthin, a very powerful anti-oxidant.

Licorice and Cinnamon always sounded good in theory for my adrenals, but always made me feel worse. I even tried extended periods of using them and the results were consistent. Whereas people say tea is bad for the adrenals, so I gave up my organic green tea for a few weeks and my adrenals didn't feel any different. I also drink some black tea now sometimes and it only seems to have positive benefits and doesn't seem to stress my adrenals more.

Thanks to both of you for the suggestions. I take 800mg magnesium a day in divided doses. I used to take liquorice extract but now that I'm on adrenal medication, it interferes with that and makes me poorly. I think where I need to look is in my head. I've got worries about my job and I think the stress is affecting my adrenals and pulling me down. I often crave chocolate when this is going on. The past 3 days I've had stomach cramps, particularly at night; I felt very poorly indeed Monday night and thought I'd got food poisoning. Guess I could do with some relaxation therapy, LOL. I will start another chelation round soon; started one last night and forgot to dose this morning so had to leave it off.

Happy dayz! Thats great news:-)

Thanks!

Strange things keep happening. I was gradually going down hill since I wrote that post and more or less ended up where I was before, though as I said I remain heartened by the fact that I had that good spell -- first one I've had since I've been ill.

That hit me out of the blue. The same thing happened yesterday. I nodded off at about 6pm and when I woke up, I felt like I was coming back up from someplace very deep and far away. I had no idea what time of day it was at first. And I felt that warm sense of peace again.

It's hard to objectively assess at the moment because we've got a family crisis going on, but it seems to be sticking around for the moment. My diet isn't clean and my adrenals are weak from stress, so I'm concluding that the chelation is making a difference. Strange, this coming-and-going feeling of wellness. Hopefully things are beginning to balance and will eventually settle.

I feel wonderful this afternoon, despite really being out of control with sugar-eating at the moment. Blimey what a roller-coaster. All it seems that I can expect is the unexpected.

Good news, now you have some good days inbetween the bad days.....which is better than before. It means what you are doing is working and you just need to stick at it.

Recovery takes time and a lot of effort, there is no overnight cure and your good spells are a great signal.

Yeah, chelate, chelate, chelate.... Get the horrible toxic stuff out of you and get on with your life.

Then never visit a traditional dentist or doctor again and you will be healthy and happy for the rest of your life!

Why all this up-and-down? It's hard to know whether I'm coming or going at the moment.

I felt very whacked this morning, so stopped my round. I managed 6 days, but yesterday was ropey. Will keep rounds to 5 days from now on, see how that works.

Interestingly, I feel more down-to-earth and focused now. My brain was like a sieve and I was trying to retain important information from textbooks. I'm definitely in a better condition to do that now. Must have been the mercury being pulled from my brain -- a good thing, of course. I'm kind of hoping I get some other symptom next time; I'd rather have insomnia or stomach aches. (Or preferably nothing!)

Im right there with you Lindalou, some serious ups and downs. Last round was only 3 days, I felt the best I had in probably 6 months, radiant, happy, and full of life...but after the round I just felt like crap for 3 days and could barely get anything done. I did use a sauna though, I think that was a bad idea and that I should just stick with chelation.

Hey, that's great news! Sounds like chelation is doing something for you.

It is hard to deal with the ups and downs isn't it? I feel like a cork bobbing on a big ocean, wave after wave. But at least it's better than feeling yuck all the time, with no good spells at all.

It is a bit tough, but the good times give me a lot of hope for the future. Its getting hot here in Southern California and that certainly makes me feel a bit different too.

When I think about how I feel overall, I would say pretty good, but I really believed I learned some superpower over the years where it really doesn't take much to make me happy. When I'm not feeling good I just lay down a lot during the day and don't do very much...and the days quickly go by. My occupations is nearly perfect in the sense that if I don't feel like doing it, most of the time it can wait, and I rarely have deadlines like that.

I think in terms of seasons, like I compare how I felt last spring to this spring, and I think (&hope) this summer will be the last summer where I feel poisoned. My that would be nice....but for now we are like corks in the ocean...

Heat intolerance is one of the main symptoms of low aldosterone. Usually you feel ok in the winter, but as soon as it starts to warm up, the salt-wasting symptoms become unbearable. Florinef has taken away all of these symptoms in me and it's made my life 1000 times better.

I actually do ok in the summers here, it just takes me a few days to adjust. If we have cool weather and all of sudden we have full blast summer heat, I feel pretty strange for a day or two but then I can handle the heat just fine.

The only problem is the weather has been fluctuating more, instead of being consistent, and I know its not just me because everyone else notices it. Its the fluctuations that get me, as apparently my body needs time to adjust.

I used Cinnamon for the last two days (I stir a half a teaspoon in water) and it seems to kill Candida and I feel better on it! Like you said it probably stabilizes blood sugar and thats a huge plus for me. Minerals as you said can be a great help, always need those when cleansing or chelating. I can't take all of the different things you do though, it's just so hard to take that much and try to keep a balance IMO, it's always will this help or what will this do and how much do I have to take, it can cause an impbalance over time right? I try to use Herbs like Alfalfa and Spirulina (Blackstrap Molasses too, very high in minerals) to get my minerals instead of taking individual supplements, it's too hard to keep up with for me. I do try to get some Magnesium here and there though when I need it, I take a teaspoon of the Citrate and it does seem to work.

I'm on day 3 of a really hard round. I'm sleepy all the time, insomnia's back, I've had IBS, I'm weepy, and I feel this sense of impending doom all the time. Mind you, I was having some of these problems to an extent before the round.

I hesitated to post that I was feeling better, in case this happened, but I suppose all this just honestly reflects my experience. It's hard to keep my chin up at the moment; I think it will be best to stop the round tonight and get some relief.

I can't even manage to do rounds more than 3 days(2 nights) due to the sleep disruption. If I wake up to take a dose, then I often can't fall back to sleep again, or get enough deep sleep after waking up. I feel trapped. I can't really chelate so well, but can't go without chelation and not make any progress. I am thinking about increasing the dosage my next round. I have done 50 mg DMSA plus 50 mg ALA for around 6 rounds in a row. Do I dare increase the ALA to 100 mg while keeping the DMSA at 50 mg?
I don't want to go to 75 mg of ALA, since I can't divide the 50 mg tablets evenly. Should I try to take a 50 mg ALA every 2 hours rather than every 3? Taking the ALA at different times than the DMSA would make the chelation schedule more confusing.

Thats a tough call JK, I didn't have as many fillings as you and I can't have a good round if the dose is over 17mg of each ala/dmsa...so you are definitely taking a higher dose than most toxic people, I'm not sure if raising the dose would help. If you wake up on a night that you are not chelating, is it just as hard to fall back asleep?

Linda, I know you are anxious to get your body and mind working properly...but I feel like I've been having very similar reactions to you, and I decided it might be best for me to take an extra day or two between each round, giving my body more time to bounce back. I normally take a 3-4 day break after a round, but I took an extra few days after one round and it really made a difference, and the next round went smoother as well. You might want to try that, as I know the feeling of impending doom and it isnt fun!

I don't usually wake up in the middle of the night when I am not chelating. 17 mg of each is a very small dosage. Have you considered increasing it? How long have you been at this dosage? I was at 25 mg of each for a few weeks, then increased the ALA first before increasing the DMSA.

It would be nice to see some animal studies on chelation that compared mercury excretion for increasing the dosage vs increasing the duration of the round. Some have claimed that doubling the dosage increases mercury excretion by a factor of 1.4x (ie. the square root of 2). How much does increasing the round duration help? In other words, how much more mercury is excreted in a 6 day round than in two 3 day rounds, if they are at the same dosage?

I guess it would be okay to take twice as much ALA as DMSA. I am wondering if it would make sense to let the ratio get over 2:1 though. DMSA is expensive, and not so convenient to divide dosages.

25mg of each made me miserable...after 1 day I would have very bad muscle ache and could not really get much work done at all. You might think 17mg is not much, but it doesn't matter what the brain thinks, it matters what your body tolerates. I know I will not get better with a higher dosage as I can feel the amount of damage it does to my body. I would prefer to do longer rounds but after 4 days I really can't continue and need to stop.

It is really important to pace yourself when it comes to chelating. Its not good to think purely in terms of numbers as the body is much more complex than that.

Are you detoxifying properly? One thing I noticed is that if I become constipated during a round I feel much worse. Detox teas help me feel better, although lately I wonder if using them during a round might impair the effectiveness of the round? Chelation does give me muscle ache. I plan to basically veg on the days I chelate, as my energy levels become even lower, and my muscle ache increases. I need to push the envelope a bit though, as otherwise I am afraid progress will take too long.

How long have you been taking 17 mg of each? I think it is probably not so good to stay at that dose for long without increasing it, while others might say to stay on that dosage until the symptoms during chelation decrease. Are you using just DMSA for the last few doses of the round? That might help quite a bit to decrease the end of round symptoms. I noticed that the next day I don't feel as bad if my last two doses are just DMSA.

Thanks gdawson, I'll try taking a longer break.

I've been so sleepy lately. This is a new one. The insomnia I get means that I get sleepy early in the evening and wake up early in the morning. The rest of the day I'm usually OK. Oddly, this is pure sleepiness without fatigue, and it's fatigue that always plagued me in the past. I could easily sleep all day and still feel sleepy when I woke up.

Ah, the many facets of mercury poisoning, LOL.

Strike a light! There I was feeling sleepy and blah -- and suddenly this evening, bing! it went away. It's past 10pm and I am wide awake. I suddenly have energy too. I'm bouncy. Earlier, I could barely drag myself to the kitchen to do the washing-up.

Will I feel this way in the morning? What's going on? It's so weird, so sudden and back-and-forth. Well I guess I shouldn't complain about feeling lots better at the moment!

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but it is probably your adrenals. They are stressed from the chelation and aren't responding properly. This is why I cannot chelate at all. My adrenals go from making just enough to get by, to barely making enough to keep me from having an adrenal crisis.

In your case, it sounds like they aren't kicking in until late in the evening. Then once they kick in, they are going crazy producing TOO MUCH cortisol (playing catch up). This will cause you to feel wide awake and wired late at night when you should be winding down. Low or high cortisol can cause insomnia in people, but it's hard to know what you have without proper testing. Symptoms tend to mimic one another.

Waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep is likely low cortisol. Not being able to fall asleep from the get go is likely high cortisol. Adrenal fatigue has many stages and you can switch back and forth from one to another. Chelation can/will completely burn your adrenals out if they aren't properly supported.

I think a lot of you have severe adrenal problems on this forum, but just lump it together as a symptom of mercury toxicity.

I've been taking medrol (methylprednisolone) for a year for adrenal fatigue. In fact, at the time I started it, I stopped chelation. I was seeing a specialist in metabolic medicine here, who helped me with adrenal and thyroid support.

During that whole year, no matter what I did, I never felt any better. I felt worse when I stopped chelation and flatlined all that time. I started on different meds originally, before I settled on these. They seemed to make the winter a little more bearable but that's all.

I started chelating again at the beginning of last March and felt things start to lift straight away. I've had a couple of spells of feeling "normal," which I'd never had during all the years I've been ill. I know what an adrenal crash feels like, I know what it feels like to take too much of my med, and what stress and an adrenal rush do to me; I could list all the symptoms. These "normal spells" are just that -- brief realisations of what it felt like to not be ill. With a strange sense of peace thrown in. All that awful anxiety lifts and I feel alive.

It was lovely last night, so I decided to carry on with chelation for a day or two more. I'm back to feeling rather "blah" today but every time that "normal" feeling hits me, I feel heartened. It reminds me that it's going to keep coming back, and maybe one day it will stay.

I'm on day 5 of a chelation round. Sleepiness at night, gone. My mind is now sharp as a tack as well. That comes after weeks of particularly bad brain fog that hindered a lot of things I tried to do. I'm surprised at how symptoms just come and go like this -- fascinating to see -- and frustrating as well, never know what's next!

Linda, is your temperature normal, or are you running temperatures below normal?

I stopped measuring. It wasn't helping. Anyway I'm on T3 for thyroid.

I just had a really good round, I feel kinda like an idiot though. I learned that any fat soluble anti-oxidants give me the same symptoms as adrenal fatigue. so vitamin E, even though I was only taking 100 IU (333% DV) was making me feel dull and drained. I was taking vitamin E for a long time too, and didn't realize it was what was making me tired. Water-soluble anti-oxidants don't seem to bother me in this way.

The vitamin E I was taking was a very good natural version by now foods (true-E) and I tried another natural one, and both of them had this effect on me. I think it was just strange that it gave me every symptom of fatigued adrenals, and without the E I feel lots of energy and full of life (not all the time, but a lot more of the time).

I really don't think many people would react to vitamin E like I do, but I thought I would mention it just in case.

Selenium zaps me too if that makes sense, infact it gives me bad anxiety and makes me wake up nervous (Early) as well. I know the supplements say natural, what else is in them? We have to wonder at times.


I try to stay away from too much now as far as Vitamins go and do better for it. I take Molasses now, Spirulina, Ginger and Cod Liver Oil and maybe a thing or two more a day, thats enough for me right now.

I think the main thing here is to go with what your body is telling you. I tinkered with my supplements a couple of months back and felt awful. Things might change in the future as we get well, but for the time being perhaps our bodies just can't handle certain things.

I would, however, always recommend taking several grams of vitamin C a day.

As for me, I'm generally feeling blah these days, though I think part of it is my adrenals struggling to get rid of a cold -- it's been lingering for weeks and is trying to break through now but hasn't quite. And I can't get my diet clean. I've put together an EFT regime with one of my holistic therapists and I hope it will help.

Ya, I definitely should listen to my body on this one.

I have no doubt the quality of the vitamin E is good, vitamin E and fat soluble anti-oxidants just make me feel like crap. Even organic red palm oil, high in E and fat soluble carotenes makes me feel terrible the day after eating it.

I'm taking a whole week off of chelation...want to test out some herbs (astragalus, made a tincture) and a few foods. Also just set up our saltwater in ground pool and I want to see if swimming makes me feel better or worse. I'm the one who maintains it so at least I know there aren't any chemicals in it.

Linda, have you ever tried accupuncture? It had some interesting effects on me, and I also really liked how chinese fire cupping effected me.

"I would, however, always recommend taking several grams of vitamin C a day. "

Not too much though, as it might be a stress to the kidneys. I take just 2 grams a day of vitamin c. It is a good idea to spread it out in a few doses a day. Imo taking more than 4 grams a day of vitamin c for long periods of time is not a good idea.

Linus Pauling disagrees with you.

I used to take 6 grams a day but it wasn't stopping me from being ill more than I was well. That stopped when I bumped the dose up to 9 grams.

Very poorly people have taken upwards of 100 grams a day intravenously without ill effects.

Yes I have read that about the Kidneys too, I don't use alot of Vitamin C because of that there. I would try to get it from Acerola Powder or Camu Camu etc., thats the natural form and probably works alot better with the co factors.

Can you tell me where you read this info or could you cite a study? It doesn't chime with the things I've read myself. Thanks.

"Vitamin C Toxicity

The upper limit for vitamin C intake is 2000 mg/day. Up to 10 g/day of vitamin C are sometimes taken for unproven health benefits, such as preventing or shortening the duration of viral infections or slowing or reversing the progression of cancer or atherosclerosis. Such doses may acidify the urine, cause nausea and diarrhea, interfere with the healthy antioxidant-prooxidant balance in the body, and, in patients with thalassemia or hemochromatosis, promote iron overload. Intake below the upper limit does not have toxic effects in healthy adults."

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec01/ch004/ch004j.html

Linda, I hope that you are using a buffered form of vitamin c(ie. calcium or magnesium ascorbate, as huge amounts of acidic vitamin c, especially when taken on an empty stomach might cause a problem. Vitamin c is also an anticoagulant. If you also take large amounts of vitamin E with it, you might develop a problem with slow clotting.

I started this round with 75 mg ALA plus 50 mg DMSA. After the first dose I felt strong muscle ache, but after the second dose my muscle ache is much milder. I am glad I didn't try to use 100 mg of ALA this round. If this round goes well, then I may stay at this level for a few rounds before going to 100 mg ALA + 50 mg DMSA each dose.


I am wondering about which supplements might interfere with chelation. There are two that I immediately suspect, which are zinc and selenium. I read about one study on rats in which the presennce of sodium selenite caused less mercury to be excreted from the kidneys while doing DMSA chelation.

I read that zinc reduces the effectiveness of DMPS chelation, and also read that zinc is chelated to at least some degree by DMSA, so having extra zinc in the bloodstream during chelation might decrease the amount of mercury and other toxic metals excreted. Since DMSA does cause increased excretion of zinc, it is probably a good idea to take zinc supplements between rounds, but not during rounds.

JK, selenium probably binds tighter to mercury than DMSA does, and it forms an insoluble salt that doesn't get excreted.

Studies on DMSA and Zinc showed DMSA did not raise zinc excretion in the urine to any significant amount (though it did very slightly), so it most likely does not have the same effect on chelation that selenium does. I would guess mercury would still bind tighter with the DMSA than the Zinc would so it shouldn't be a problem.


As for vitamin C, here is a study that showed 1g of ascorbic acid daily reduced naturally produced anti-oxidants, and signficantly reduced endurance during exercise. This study was done on both humans and rats with the same results

http://fanaticcook.blogspot.com/2009/02/vitamin-c-supplementation-and-exercise.html

I never trusted, nor tried mega-dosing of vitamin C. I know animals naturally produce there own vitamin C, and that humans don't have that ability anymore, but I'm pretty sure we have evolved some other mechanism to make up for that loss.

"Studies on DMSA and Zinc showed DMSA did not raise zinc excretion in the urine to any significant amount (though it did very slightly"

My concern isn't so much for the amount of zinc lost during chelation, but that since DMSA does chelate zinc to some degree, extra zinc in the blood during chelation might cause more DMSA to be used up grabbing zinc, rather than grabbing toxic metals. While the percentage of zinc in the body that is lost is low, but an even slight increase in the amount of DMSA used up grabbing zinc rather than toxic metals wouldn't be good.

As for vitamin c, even 500 mg a day is a megadose, but over 2 grams a day is an ultra megadose.

But judging by how much zinc is excreted, I think it doesn't bind tightly enough to effect DMSA's mercury chelating abilities. Mercury would probably easily displace any zinc that is bound to DMSA since the bond is weak.

If DMSA bound tightly to zinc, the body would have some severe side effects to DMSA since most of the zinc in the blood would be made unavailable to the body, and zinc is crucial in so many processes. I really don't think you have to worry about zinc in regards to chelation.

JK, you're coming to this forum and quoting stuff from Merck?

'Nuff said.

The vitamin C and vitamin E exercise study is an interesting one. Since I started learning about nutrition, I've noted with interest the number of studies that come out claiming that vitamins are useless or bad for us, and they make headlines around the world. The newspapers don't publish the abstracts, or information about who funded the studies. One that I'm aware of, on vitamin E, used the L-chiral form, which is useless and possibly dangerous to the body. I'm not saying that any of these studies should be dismissed out of hand -- just that the details should be looked into before going along with brief summaries of abstracts, when the journalists have almost always not looked at the actual studies. (Less well publicised are the thousands of deaths occurring from FDA-approved medications. Strange, that.) So who is so interested in making yet another claim that vitamins are useless? Is someone's patent running out -- are they trying to head off competition? Questions worth asking. Vitamins C and E aren't big money-makers but pharmaceuticals, which we are told are safe and effective, are. (Sorry, up on my soap box.)

Anyone who wants to read more into this particular study can find an interesting discussion here. I found this person's comments interesting:



I'm surprised that the large body of work that Linus Pauling did on this vitamin, seems to be largely forgotten or ignored. NIMH claimed to have repeated one of his studies and declared that Pauling's results were invalid; NIMH was subsequently shown to have failed to follow Pauling's methodology, but the damage to his reputation was done:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/12154.php

From the reading I've done about this vitamin and Pauling's studies, I am quite happy to take large doses, and they have made a noticeable difference to me; though I am still poorly, I have gone from catching a cold/having a cold/fighting off a cold more than half the time, to almost never.

Personally I feel frustrated with repeated attempts to rubbish vitamins. If someone feels that vitamin C is interfering with their exercise, they can take it at other times of the day, though I don't know enough about biochemistry myself to be able to say exactly what is going on there.

There are other tbings besides vitamin c that one can take to boost immunity, such as zinc, vitamin A, and numerous herbs. I am not questioning that vitamin c is useful, although 8 grams a day isn't 4x as useful as 2 grams a day. Even at 4 grams a day, most is probably excreted and not utilized. Vitamin c has some anti inflamatory effects as well, although there are a number of herbs that are antiinflamatory. Years ago I did take around 10 grams of vitamin c a day, but discontinued that, as I felt it really wasn't much more beneficial than taking 2 or 3 grams a day.

Maitake or Reishi Mushrooms can jack up the immune system as they have Beta Glucans in them, they either raise or drop your immune system as needed I have read JK98. I have the Reishi, I need to start taking it now.


I also took 10 grams a day and sometimes got dirreah and didn't really feel that much better overall, so I cut it back and then eventually switched to Acrelo Tablets which I did better on (They only contain 500mg of C too).

This is not the case. Like claims about vitamin C causing kidney stones, it is more rumour than fact. While it's great that everyone here shares personal experience, and while that is equally valid for us all, I would respectfully ask that you do a little research before you make remarks like the above. IMO it is unhelpful to be giving incorrect information on a forum like this.

I find myself feeling increasingly emotional about this subject so I think it's time I gave it a rest for now.

I'm also going to respectfully ask that if people here are interested in continuing discussion of this topic, perhaps it could be taken to a new thread. In future if I want to look back at this thread, it would be helpful for me to be able to find information about my chelation experience.

I'm really amazed at what a roller-coaster I am on now. I mean literally, I can be feeling so low that I feel like killing myself at one time in the day, and quite upbeat and confident another. It's getting to be a bit alarming; I keep wondering where the real "me" is underneath all this.

What's amazing, also, is that I'm feeling all these emotions at all. It feels increasingly like I'm going back to the time before the antidepressant and the withdrawal damage, which left me emotionally numb for so long. And I'm getting little glimpses of what it actually felt like to be "normal." I can't believe what a wonderful feeling it is. I didn't know I was born. After everything I've been through, just living a day of that -- something I always took for granted -- would be a treasure.

I am hoping that with continued chelation, things will even out and the good will start to outweigh the bad. The bad is really, really bad and it interferes with my ability to do my job and live the rest of my life.

It might not be a bad idea to lower the dose a bit Linda, especially if the bad is interfering with your ability to do your job and live the rest of your life.

Its interesting what you mentioned about the real 'me' beneath all of this. A lot of our personalities are a result of the ways we have chosen to cope with the effects of mercury. I have felt poisoned since a little child, and would tell me mom something was wrong and I remember having strong anxiety even at 4-5 years old. My grandpap died when I was 5 and I remember thinking how nice it was that he never had to worry about anything ever again. Because of how sensitive I was I liked spending a lot of time by myself...but all of these traits were my way of coping with the mercury and are changing as the mercury is leaving my brain and body.

"It might not be a bad idea to lower the dose a bit Linda, especially if the bad is interfering with your ability to do your job and live the rest of your life. "

I disagree with this. I am wondering if the opposite makes sense, to move to a much higher dosage, even if it means being totally debilitated during chelation, and just chelate for 2 days a week on the weekends. It seems like I am debilitated by chelation even at a lower dosage, so I try to push for a higher dosage during chelation, but just chelate for 3 days at a time. We are all different though, and have different severity of mercury toxicity. I had 25 mercury fillings, so I guess I have been exposed to much more mercury than most people here.
I am now doing chelation at 75 mg ALA +50 mg DMSA using 3 day rounds(2 nights). I am even thinking about going to 100 mg ALA +50 mg DMSA for the next round, although I will probably just do 75 mg ALA + 50 mg DMSA for at least one more round.

When you have adrenal issues it is a really bad idea to overstress them by upping the dosage like that. This is not a sprint to the finish, this is about removing deeply stored mercury without doing extra unnecessary damage in the process.

I really think doing high doses for only 2 days would result in quite a bit of redistribution.

Well as far as what I'm doing myself, it seems to be working OK so I will stick with it. I'm taking 25mg ALA and 12.5mg DMSA on the Cutler regimen, but actually at the moment I'm on the 5th day off round. My adrenals struggle to cope with this amount so I think raising it higher would be foolish. The medrol I take means I don't cope well with extra adrenal stress from any source. A year ago I could take 100mg ALA and 50mg DMSA per dose, but it's hard to say how much it helped me because I rarely took a chelation break; I felt immediately awful as soon as I tried. As it is now, I seem to have 2 days of awfulness post-round before I start feeling better.

Bottom line? I think everyone has to do what works for them.

Linda, you might do better on 25 mg ALA +25 mg DMSA. I noticed that when I took ALA alone, my symptoms were much worse than with ALA plus DMSA. The DMSA seems to have a calming effect on symptoms. Taking just DMSA for the last few doses of a round also seems to prevent symptoms after the round ends.

I have been trying to increase the ALA dosage before increasing the DMSA dosage since DMSA is expensive, and ALA is so much cheaper, however when I notice stronger symptoms from the ALA it seems to mean that I need to increase the DMSA. Andy Cutler advises staying between a 1 to 2 to 2 to 1 ratio of DMSA to ALA.

There is no free lunch and your body will pay you back for all of the meds youre subjecting it to . Some people want to be paients the rest of their lives.
Antidepressants and prednisone make people feel better initially but worse over time . Antidepressants cause adrenal stimulation and then burnout and so do steroids.Many people take steroids and antidepressants for chronic pain and feel better at first but much worse over time. Eventually the steroids destroy immunity , leading to all knds of infections , cancer increased hepeatitis and AIDS risk, inability to heal wounds, liver problems,mood swings,glaucoma, cataracts,,acne, infertility, cancer,kidney tumors, osteoporosis,arthritis,round face, joint pain, violence,low blood pressure,numbness and tingling, artherosclerosis,tendon rupturesCushings,psychosis,fatigue,insomnia.headaches,adrenal exaustion and lots more good stuff.
Most people who have doctors appointments today are going there , unbeknownst to them , for something caused by a drug given by a doctor or by a medical procedure or dental procedure.

Hi, you're new here so I'll assume you're not familiar with my history. You are preaching to the converted. I went on antidepressants several years ago after trying every other "healthy" means that I knew of to get better (which wasn't actually much at the time). They didn't help, and I did long-term damage to myself when I discontinued. That was over 3 years ago. While I try not to get too preachy with people. you will never see me recommending psych meds of any kind to anyone.

The steroid dose I am on is a physiological dose. I tested positive for adrenal exhaustion and I have been under the care of one of this country's foremost experts in metabolic medicine. The idea here is that the steroids give your own adrenals time to rest and heal, and then you come off them. Again, I was desperate at the time, I'd been ill for years, and I have no doubt that I have adrenal problems. I'm not sure how much the steroid has benefitted me, though probably it's supported my adrenals during chelation. I would like to come off some time in the near future but it's playing with fire because my system has been very reactive since the antidepressant experience.

As for my actual chelation experience? I seem to be having a damn hard time between rounds, feel pretty bad. I think I have sinusitis too. Never mind, could be worse.

Hey Linda,

I did not know you were already on Medrol. Have you had your sex hormones and DHEA-S checked since being on the meds? Once you start taking adrenal meds, it will cause the ACTH to plummet. This gives your adrenals time to rest (if it's a primary adrenal insufficiency) BUT when this happens, it will lower aldosterone, DHEA-S and subsequently all of your sex hormones.

I have been on 27.5mg of HC for about 7 weeks or so (I can't remember exactly) and my DHEA-S went from 215 (45-320) to 24!! I'm sure my doc will start me on some DHEA after I talk to him tomorrow. Unfortunately it's part of taking the good with the bad. I can't live without HC at the moment. I may be on it for the rest of my life because we aren't sure what's causing the problem.

Once your "adrenals" start to work, your thyroid may start to show problems too. These problems were likely always there, but were simply masked by how low cortisol levels were in the body. It didn't allow the hormone to make it into the cells properly, so labs may have looked OK. Unfortunately once you start on adrenal meds that is just the beginning. Unless you have a doc who can critically think and not just look for the "H" or the "L" next to the labs, you will probably have a hell of a time getting better. I'm thankful to have found a doc that knows there's a difference between optimal levels and "in-range" levels.

Do you have cortef/HC on hand to stress dose with? How much medrol do you take and how do you dose it?

Hi Birdlady,

I'm also taking T3 for my thyroid. Not sure how much that is helping either, but the SAD this past winter wasn't as bad as the previous 4.

The problem with my doctor is that the medical establishment doesn't like the way he does things and they took away his power to prescribe. He is still much in demand in alt med circles and he travels around the country doing clinics even though he's in his 70s. A number of people on this forum have seen him. But it means that any tests I do have to be arranged privately. That puts a big crimp on things. I got myself a thorough sex hormone test at one point but it was wonky across the board, things being "up" when they should be "down" and vice-versa. I did try DHEA at one point and it made me worse. For me, I think I'm going to leave sex hormones alone and hope that with chelation and time they will balance out. My libido seems to be getting better. I was left with permanent sexual dysfunction after discontinuing my antidepressant but I'm making slow progress. My periods are still extremely heavy. I tried natural progesterone cream but that didn't help either.

I do have HC for stress dosing, but it doesn't help a great deal. Medrol is better for stress dosing, for me, but I have to use it very sparingly because my body quickly adjusts to having that amount and I go through withdrawal when I don't keep it up. It's a big problem when I'm ill. I don't actually like being on this stuff and want to come off it but it's been extremely difficult. Most of the time I get withdrawal symptoms which simply don't go away, no matter how gradually I go. I can't honestly say it's made a great deal of difference for me and it's caused me a number of problems. At the bottom of my adrenal problems, I believe, is mercury toxicity; though it got a lot worse when I withdrew from the antidepressant. I got additional problems then like sensitivity to light and sound, and heat intolerance. Those are very slowly getting better.

The only thing that's actually helped me has been chelation. Do you chelate?

Hormone replacement is a tough thing to get right. My doc says it takes up to 6 months just to get on the right track. I'm only on my second month, so I still have a little ways to go.

I was chelating for a while, but my adrenals completely crashed from it. That's when I decided I would get those set straight before I went ahead and started up again. I was on round 10 when I stopped, but was seeing some improvements. I was dosing with 25mg of DMSA every 3 1/2 hours.

I'm dealing with other health problems (thinning of my retina), so I'm still taking it easy. I certainly do not need to put anymore strain on my fragile body.

I am sorry to hear that your hormone replacement isn't helping. Obviously something isn't right.

Someone your age should not be taking all these drugs and they wont cure you .
Antidepressants have taken away the sex drive of many people I know and me and it never came back even years later, a fact the pharmaceutical companies manage to keep secret . If a person's sex drive is minimal or absent , the drugas probably damaged the parts of the brain responsible for sexuality .
Brain scans show psychiatric drugs actually shrink the brain and the cells that are destroyed are not replaced.

Sorry, I'm not sure you've read all the posts here. (?) I haven't been on ADs for more than 3 years and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I'm also not sure what you mean by "all those drugs." I'm doing what seems to be right for me, which up to this point has meant supporting my adrenals and thyroid as well as chelating.

I lost my libido and my genitals were numb for a long time after coming off the AD, but these things are improving. While I believe that ADs do damage to the body and the brain, I also believe that the body can repair itself in time with the right help.

As for how I've been doing . . . I had another spell of feeling really good, but also started to get what seemed to be symptoms of high cortisol. This seemed to me to mean that I can safely reduce my adrenal med, which I have done this week. I've been through the standard couple of days of "yuck" and am starting to feel better. For the time being I'm going to see where this goes, in hopes that I can reduce the med some more. If I feel the need to chelate while I'm doing this then I will, but it might be wise to keep the two processes separate so I can monitor how I'm feeling.

That seems like a good sign if your adrenals are starting to produce more cortisol on there own. I agree that you should take a break from chelation when reducing the meds so you can easily pinpoint any changes in symptoms.

My chelation is going extremely well...I did a 6 day round at 17mg each ALA/DMSA and it was really smooth. I just really hope this chemical sensitivity of mine eases up soon, it can be quite a hassle at times.

I have read many books and scientific journals that find that antidepressant use causes a permanant reduction in the number of receptors in the nervous ststem . Apparently , when you cause an excess of serotonin in the synapses , the brain reacts to the imbalance by destoying itself . I think I have improved over the years but i don't think I will ever be the same as before I took antidepressants

Fox news has a quetion and answer forum with an MD on Sunday and one of the questions was what causes low libido . The doctor said that it often results from a deficiency of dopamine . One of the many adverse effects of antidepressants is drasticly lowered dopamine.People with Parkinson's disease are deficient in dopamine and when they are given drugs that increase dopamine , one effect is increased libido . People who are low in dopamine also have chronic muscle stiffness and pain , similar to Parkinson's victims and this probably accounts for why I and so many other users of antidepressants have chronic pain. My chiropractor , who is a senior citizen , said that decades ago he never saw young people whose muscles were rigid . That is probably because thay weren't on antidepressants back in the 70s.The problem with taking anything that increases dopamine is that it ultimately makes the problems worse after improving them temporarily . I know people who have Parkinsons and their doctors admit that their medications will hasten the progression of the disease , whch is true of almost all medications.

Birdlady - Have you ever asked yourself why you dont produce enough hormones on your own ?
You might , but your doctor does not want to lose a patient.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. I don't like your attitude at all.

We tried looking into the cause of my adrenal insufficiency and we could never pinpoint the exact problem. It's not a signally issue from the pituitary like I had originally thought because my ACTH was high. There are no antibodies attacking my adrenals either, so it's not autoimmune Addison's Disease. We also tested for a few genetic, enzyme deficiencies and those came back borderline. Basically we have no idea, but I know that I need to replace what they aren't doing correctly (hydrocortisone and fludrocortisone). I couldn't go on any longer and was on the verge of complete physical and mental break down with all my health problems.

How much longer was I to suffer to figure out the cause?

Ya inert your attitude is very unfriendly. If you want people to even consider your opinions it would be wise to word them differently.

As you why the body doesn't produce enough hormones, I think a large part of it is mercury related...here is a chart from Andy Cutlers Book

The medrol reduction actually went quite badly and I had to put my dose back up. Some good has come out of that though. Based on my reaction to certain foods, I'm going to test the possibility that I have a dairy intolerance. Even on my best dietary behaviour I've had butter, cheese, sometimes yogurt. Fingers crossed -- it's been a difficult week and I could do with some relief. Still holding off on the chelation for now.

Gary I understand this, but you cannot chelate with weak adrenals. You'll find yourself in the hospital sooner than later. I think I was almost there last October.

I understand the necessity of getting hormones supplemented when your adrenals and other glands are so out of balance. I wasn't saying to chelate when your adrenals are a wreck, just that mercury seems like it could be the reason why the body isn't producing hormones properly.

My point is that these drugs not only don't cure anything , they cause tremendous harm.You won't get better by taking progesterone or prednisone.I know someone who went into early menopause in her late thirties when she stopped taking progeaterone. Progesterone inhibits ovulation so when she stopped she had excess ovulation , hormonal imbalance and menopause. For information on the effects of these drugs , you might want to refer to
www.herbal-supplements-guide.com/prescription-drug-side-effects.html
www.shirleyswellnesscafe.com
www.about.com
www.drugs.com

The next question the doctor on Fox news was asked ironically was how to treat a runny nose . The doctor said the best thing to do is to take over the counter antihistamines. Antihistamines damage the nervous system when used for years and cause Parkinsons and low dopamine and muscle stiffness and low sex drive. This is a classic example of doctors reccomending drugs to treat the side effects of other drugs without recognizing that our drugs are causing our illnesses.

" just that mercury seems like it could be the reason why the body isn't producing hormones properly. "


Perhaps mercury indirectly, but if the body is deficient in necessary minerals, then the hormones will be messed up. Magnesium, zinc, and iodine are typically deficient in those with mercury toxicity.

Today officially marks two weeks of a super-clean diet, which has also been dairy-free. No sign of feeling any better yet. It's been two weeks of hell to be honest: adrenals are in a mess, can't think clearly, generally feel miserable all the time. I really hoped I'd found an answer there. Give it a few more days and then it will be back on the chelation supplements; they still seem to be the only thing that helps.

Hi Linda,

Hmmm, I"m not sure if giving anymore time to the completely dairy free diet will be overly helpful? It's possible it may take longer, because it takes me 6-8 weeks to recover/improve after a cheat (but most people get improvements earlier than that).

But regardless of such diets, the culprit that forces one to be so strict is still at work. Whatever that is. In your case, if ALA gives improvements (or sometimes exacerbation) of symptoms, you've probably already nailed the problem. Chelation is the key, or one of them anyway. Butit would be nice to still gain further improvement during the lengthy time of chelating wouldn't it? And not knowing what other issues might be at work. Whether they're more superficial or part of the cause.

I'm sorry the dairy free hasn't proven effective so far Linda.

Let's just hope future ALA will make you feel a bit better again!

Well the idea was that I would test for dairy intolerance. I'd been reading about food allergies and intolerances and they can cause all the symptoms I have. The body is inflamed much of the time which can cause a negative cascade of symptoms. The brain can become inflamed too. Alas, the problem for me doesn't appear to have such a simple solution.

I am on the third day of my first round of chelation in a few weeks and it's been awful. I'm fatigued, I've had dizzy spells, and I'm impatient, angry and despondent. I am starting to feel like I really have covered absolutely everything that could be causing my symptoms and there's nothing left to pull out of the hat. I am also struggling to keep my diet clean because the sugar cravings never go away, and they're awful today -- and not because of anything I ate that triggered them. I will probably give in if they carry on and bury my head in a bucket of ice cream -- but then? I just don't know anymore.

Cutting out dairy for a few weeks can be a drastic step for many people. Many might get over half their calcium intake from dairy, and cutting this out with taking more high quality calcium supplements to offset this might be a problem. Dairy items such as milk and yogurt are also good sources of potassium, so cutting these out also means one needs to find other sources of potsssium to replace them(perhaps vegetables?)
Diziness might be caused by a lack of potassium, or even perhaps a lack of sodium. The need for potassium and sodium is even greater in hot weather. Many with mercury toxicity do better on a relatively high sodium diet. Not all dairy items are the same. Many who are dairy intolerant do okay if they switch to low lactose dairy items. Yogurt is much lower in lactose than other dairy items, or you could get special lactose reduced milk or cottage cheese, or take lactase supplements(Lactaid) when you consume dairy products. Imo low fat plain yogurt is an important food that most people should eat.


I am convinced that sugar cravings are due to low serotonin levels and low blood sugar. I have changed my eating habits, eating 4 small meals a day rather than eating two large ones.
I also take magnesium with each meal.

On the Paleo diet you're not supposed to have milk because of the lactose, but I didn't think I had a problem with fermented dairy because the lactose is broken down in that. So I'd have plain natural yogurt and cheese. Cutting those out wasn't very hard, I didn't have them that often. But I did find that when I went off the rails, the sweet things I ate almost always had dairy of some kind in them. Could just be coincidence, I don't know.

When I had my hair test results a year and a half ago, it showed that there was more calcium in my body than I was able to absorb. For my own safety, I cut out my calcium supplement until such time as my absorption gets better, though I'm still keeping up with other minerals like magnesium.

The sugar cravings are constant, they don't match up with when I'm hungry. I think they are probably tied to weak adrenals, but I don't understand it because I'm on a strong adrenal medication. I really do think that my adrenals are at the heart of this but I've got books, I've got a specialist doctor, and I've done everything I can humanly find out about to treat them. My doctor is flummoxed. I've even started running a little magnet down the associated meridian to try to stimulate them though doing it with a finger never helped much in the past.

There's a missing key here. Food sensitivity would explain things, but these tend to be foods you eat a lot and crave, they are "feel-good" foods. I cut sugar and grains out of my diet anyway, and if it isn't dairy, I doubt if it's anything at all because nothing else I eat fits that description. And there's nothing else I eat regularly now that I also ate regularly when I became ill.

Yes the chelators have worked for me in the past, and I'm hoping my body is simply re-adjusting to them now. It's horrible. But I can't honestly see how mercury from 4 fillings and lots and lots of chelating afterward could still be making much of an impact now. My body seems to eliminate other toxins without much trouble so it doesn't make sense to me that so little mercury could still be causing me so much grief.

I don't think that I have huge deficiencies of any minerals; my hair test didn't show any, I eat a balanced diet, and I take supplements like sea salt. I tried supplementing potassium and various other things for a while but it didn't help.

My Yahoo adrenals forum has long been out of ideas. I don't know of any other specialists who can help me here. When I had those 1 1/2 weeks of feeling well at the beginning of April I wasn't doing anything differently, I was just eating a clean diet and chelating. It had never happened to me before, the whole time I'd been ill. Maybe I just need to keep my diet clean a while longer and trust that results will come, but those dang cravings are driving me mad.

I just want to know what's wrong with me . . .

"The sugar cravings are constant, they don't match up with when I'm hungry."

so that probably points to low serotonin rather than low blood sugar. Are you doing anything to try to boost your serotonin levels? I use licorice tea to do that. Others use St. John's Wort or 5 HTP.

"But I can't honestly see how mercury from 4 fillings and lots and lots of chelating afterward could still be making much of an impact now. "

You had only 4 amalgams? Did you eat plenty of tuna or other high mercury fish like swordfish? Perhaps your problem might not even be due to mercury, but perhaps lead, other heavy metals, or
else some other digestive or homonal problems?

Do you get enough vitamin D? Do you notice any pattern to how you feel at different seasons? Any other possible patterns? Have you tried rotation diets? Do you believe your drinking water is safe, and not loaded with heavy metals? Do you live near a coal powered electric plant or other major source of air pollution?
Are you sure you aren't exposing yourself to too much aluminum?
Many advise not to cook in aluminum pots or using aluminum foil, and not to take antacids with aluminum. Aluminum containing deoderants might also be a factor.

I am convinced that bread is also something that people should stop eating. It usually has bromine in it, is made with yeast, and has way too much carbohydrates.

I appreciate your attempts to help JK, but I've read about all of these things, considered them, and tried the ones that seemed relevant. Others, too. We dismantled our wifi and cordless phone in order to cut EMF exposure down. I've done lightbox therapy to death, sat in the sun for hours on end. Tweaked diet and supplements six ways to sunday. Fortunately I think we live in a relatively healthy area, not even any fluoride in our water. No exposure here to lead or other toxic metals, and I don't use aluminium for cooking. No new furniture or other things in the house that could be outgassing. I hardly ever eat fish, I have no tattoos, and I haven't had any immunisations in years. I haven't got any better when I've gone on holiday for a week or two. I've used liquorice root, and 5HTP and St. John's wort made me sick. I've done lots of spiritual things too.

I don't honestly think it's likely that anyone here can come up with a magic answer. I just needed to vent because I don't want to live the rest of my life like this and I'm running very low on ideas. I would have considered going back through all the GP and endo stuff in order to get X-rays and whatnot, in case there was a tumor, but the symptoms have been so very steady all this time, neither getting better or worse apart from brief moments. And they started quite suddenly. I'm still thinking I had an adrenal crash but if so, I don't seem to be healing.

Linda, do know what dental materials you had to replace your amalgams with? And would they be responsible at all? Or were you feeling no better and no worse after their replacement?

Did you ever find DMSA to be of help at all? Because if there was any lead involved here (which I doubt), that would probably be a good bet to use.

You have certainly done so much investigating, that I'd say indeed one would be hard pressed to come up with any answer or even another enquiry for you. Very difficult!

You already do so much to help yourself. I really haven't a clue as to what might be going on here..... you did find the ALA appeared at one point to be helping you, at least occassionally? Perhaps if resume, you may find that recur. I noticed a bit of a change in you when you were regularly doing ALA. Perhaps because of stopping it for sometime and now starting it again, you've slipped back a bit more and now that you've done a round after a while of not doing any, the symptoms are stronger and unpleasant?

Thing is, it seems you have already done alot of chelation and only having 4 amalgams? Well, I guess anything is possible Linda. But it does seem a strange and stubborn condition. Let's just hope that perhaps if you continue again with ALA, you may get some better days again.

I am still hoping that time and even more ALA chelation might bring a breakthrough. I do know that chelation can take months/years! Certainly there is likely more to this than mercury, but until/unless you find that out, I'm unsure what else you can do.

Could it be ALA is very innefective for some? It is a Sulfur right? Maybe you don't do well at ALL on any kind of sulfur like I do not do well.

Keep us updated Linda Lou.

Thanks to both of you for your responses. Sulfur doesn't seem to be a problem for me, I can eat lots of foods with sulphur in them. I do know that a few months ago, when I tried taking ALA on its own, I felt horrendous and had to reintroduce DMSA with it. And I seem to be getting redistribution symptoms this morning after having finished my round last night. So no, it doesn't seem logical that mercury could still be causing problems for me, but if I'm reacting to chelators then I think I need to continue with those. In answer to your question Bex, symptoms have been steady even when I had my amalgams replaced with composite, so I don't think the new material is a problem.

At least today the sugar cravings and anxiety have died down, and I'm not as fatigued. The experience of the past 3 days rather puts me off starting another round in a few days but hopefully the next one won't be so bad.

What bothers me is that neither of these substances, DMSA or ALA, is well understood, and there have been very few studies done with them. In fact, no one understands how any substance fully reacts with all systems in the body, our knowledge is not that advanced. I guess I have to hope that the reactions I'm getting are positive and they're taking me in the right direction.

The way I see it honestly is chelation can mess many up more and seriously is not for all! Some do better on it yes, but where is their candida or their organs when they start it? In Good health?

How is their diet and lifestyle? Chelation does well for some, but form what I have read on here not many do that well on it and improve, so where is it effective? What is the rate?

Some know I am against it in here, I would rather get Candida down and eat better (Which I have and felt alot better from Candida alone, felt byss when I knocked that down).

Does Candida make metals that much worse? Do alkaline minerals reduce alot of symptoms of mercury and rendor it useless sometime? I think so.

I will not be doing ALA nor any of that anytime soon, nor care too. I see so many with negative effects from it that it just makes me scared to death of it, from yeast flareups etc.

I love all in here, but they know where I stand on Chelation. I feel the natural way is the best, displace metals with minerals from FOOD not supplements which actually can carry metals in them etc. Some supps can carry metals, did you know that?

I believe someone said they got worse on DMSA and ALA from Lead in those supplements they were taking? Hospitilized for 8 months? What about powdered herbs? Organic? Think about that.

Yes, it can. Whether it's natural or unnatural, because moving mercury is always highly risky.

I haven't seen this occur with Cutler's protocol as much as I've seen with other methods. Quite the opposite. However, no method of moving mercury is completely without effects (whether natural or not).

As far as I'm aware Sean, Linda started doing ALA, because of the very problems she has mentioned, not because of or after using ALA!

I have seen Linda actually have some good effects from ALA and that has given her hope in the past. I have not come across any of her posts where she's mentioned deteriorating after ALA or further!

The testimonies are also encouraging. As have the few on here who have used it properly! Sunshine, Dgawson and I think JK etc. Sunshine is now near well as far as I know.

This is what is encouraging me to do some rounds of the stuff. I did a recent round and found i came up in the typical "mercury rash" (which I had in the past when detoxing the stuff). So that was a surprise! I haven't done any since, i've had a bad flu.



That's your decision and I respect that. But again, the many negative effects are not something i have seen with Cutler's protocol. You gave a link awhile back, but it was to do with wrong methods of using chelation and ALA more than anything. And somebody who was very keen on putting Cutler down and anybody who used or promoted his protocol. The person even went so far as to accuse those who promoted/recommended his protocol as deliberately out to harm others. Which is completely ridiculous and to me spoke more about the person making such accusations!

Just as natural methods can screw people up if used incorrectly. It's all about moving mercury and the safest method of moving it out - as you already know.



Yes, I am aware where you stand on chelation. And I can understand the concerns, because of the risks of moving mercury. However, leaving mercury where it is also not the answer and in fact will continue to remain and poison the body and brain unless it is removed properly.

I've seen enough people and heard enough improve and even get well from proper chelation. Yes, people get screwed up by wrong chelation. But let's not confuse the two.

Natural does not always = safe with mercury. Again, plenty are made worse by messing around with mobilising natural agents as well.

I have heard some supplements do carry heavy metals. But without supplements, I did not make nearly as much progress with my toxicity. So I guess it depends on the quality!



I haven't heard about this myself, but would be surprised if this was so and concerned of course. I haven't noticed that I ever got further poisoned by using chelation! Rather, it was helping to get the metals out. If people can get their mercury out by organic herbs? Great!

I'm just not so sure about brain/organ mercury! A great diet with proper nutrients is always recommended and aids healing, but as far as I'm aware, I don't know that this alone is going to detox a person from their organ mercury!

Me, I wanted to do "natural" chelation first, after amalgam removal (which did make me feel worse). I had a lot of garlic and coriander (cilantro). I also got a tincture called HMD. All of these things simply made me feel weird and spacy. It was only when I started DMSA and ALA that I began to improve. The improvement carried on for a month or two, until I was back to how I'd felt before amalgam removal. I'm not sure what benefit they've given me after that, but I know 2 facts: 1.) DMSA and ALA got rid of the mercury from my amalgam removal, and 2.) They've never made me feel permanently worse. If I've had a difficult round, I've been OK after it's ended.

I did feel a little better this morning; the strain that the chelators seem to have put on my adrenals is gone. But I'm still in an unusually bad way, as I have been. The fatigue came back and I ended up collapsing into bed for a few hours, though I wasn't really sleepy and I don't seem to have benefitted from it. All of my willpower was just about gone this morning, regarding my diet, and I was going to go out and get stuff. All of those things I wanted had lots of milk in them as well as sugar, so I figured it was worth persevering with this dairy-free thing a little longer yet. It's been 2 1/2 weeks, I'll give it 1 1/2 more just to be absolutely sure. Then if that doesn't work . . . chelators again I guess.

"What bothers me is that neither of these substances, DMSA or ALA, is well understood, and there have been very few studies done with them. In fact, no one understands how any substance fully reacts with all systems in the body, our knowledge is not that advanced. I guess I have to hope that the reactions I'm getting are positive and they're taking me in the right direction."


Thedy are both very well understood. ALA is a natural substance and is produced in small quantities in the body.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/la/


DMSA has been around for over 50 years.


ALA and DMSA seem to both lower blood sugar levels. Imo it is important to eat many small meals while chelating. One should also try to avoid taking DMSA and ALA with food. I usually eat a quick small meal half an hour after a dose, so that I will have at least two hours to digest the food before the next dosage.

dawson6
Saying that people should supplement hormones until they get well is like saying they should shoot themselves in the head until they get better . It is most likely the drugs , even the ones that supplement natural substances ,such as antidepressants and prednisone, that cause most illnesses and that prevent people from getting well . Michael Jackson's lupus was probably caused by prednisone given him for a back injury . Preliminary reports are that several ribs were fractured when they tried to perform CPR on him , probably because his bones were weakened by steroids . I have broken several bones , probably because of prednisone use and prednisone probably caused my depression leading to antidepressant use. Michael's vitiligo was probably caused by steroids.Prednisone also ruins your immune system and every other system and makes you more likely to get life threatening infections and less likely to survive them , even with antibiotics.It is interesting that people who don't trust mainstream dentistry fall for mainstream medicine.I know people who got steroid shots after injuries and got better at first , then got worse and got more and more shots and eventually their joints were destroyed so that now nothing can be done.
Almost no drugs cure anything . The most they do is suppress a symptom temporarily and cause a side effect that is worse than the original symptom . Most drugs are only tested a few weeks before being approved . If they tested cigarettes for a few weeks , they wouldnt find them to cause cancer or heart disease.
Ralph Nader's public citizen organization has a site called www.worstpills.org that has alot of information about the dangers of prescription drugs.
The Physicans Desk Reference is a good source for drug info . There are two versions of it, one for doctors and one for laypeople and the one for doctors is better. The Physicians Desk Reference is put out by the pharmaceutical companies so, if anything ,it is biased in favor of minimizing the risks of drugs.
There are several books written by doctors about the dangers of drugging your way to health.Some of the are
The Iatrogenic handbook by Robert Morgan
Before you Take That Pill by Douglas Bremner
Confessions of a Medical Heretic by Mendelson
Your Drug Might be Your problem by Peter Breggin
Death by Medicine by Gary Null
Selling Sickness by Ray Moynihan
The Truth about Drug Companies by Marcia Angell
Corporate Crime in the Pharmaceutical Industry by John Braithwaite.
The Truth About Antidepressants by Timothy Scott
Two online sites with drug info are Shirley's wellness cafe and Ann Blake Tracy's drugawareness.com
If you look some of those books up on Amazon .com it will list books that people who read those books also read . Many are available in libraries.There are also many books on alternative health.

Dairy is not a good source of available calcium. I read that whole milk yogurt is better for you than lo or nonfat.

I suggest you find a wholistic MD Linda . I would not go to any doctor that prescribed psychiatric drugs, statins, chemotherapy for cancer , steroids for injuries or supposed adrenal insufficiency and a whole host of other pills which are ineffective aand unsafe and cause more problems than they suppress.

"I have broken several bones "

Are you sure it wasn't due to heavy soft drink consumption(which provides large amounts of phosphorus and no calcium to balance it), low calcium consumption, and low vitamin D? There is a link between heavy soft drink use and osteoporosis.

"Dairy is not a good source of available calcium."

Why not?

"Yogurt an excellent source of calcium and protein"

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FSL/is_5_74/ai_81161395/

"I read that whole milk yogurt is better for you than low or nonfat."

Why? Where did you see that? Do they think it has more fat soluble vitamins? I take supplements of those, and avoid the large amount of saturated fat in whole milk yogurt.

Inert, it sounds like your life was strongly affected by certain prescriptions. Many people have had this problem. But regardless of what you think, not all pills make things worse...though most really are unnecessary and over prescribed. I would never recommend statins or antidepressants in any situation.

I don't take any Rx's, don't trust doctors, and haven't been to one in 8 years, but many people recovering from mercury poisoning do find great improvement by taking things like 'Armour Thyroid' and 'Cortisol (adrenal hormone)', and with this improvement they can focus on chelating, thereby removing the source of there illness. I never got to the point where I needed Armour Thyroid or Cortisol but many people here have, and unless you know what that feels like I wouldn't judge them so coldly. These things are like crutches if you break a leg. Try breaking a leg and getting around without crutches, you won't get very far, but if you use the crutches while the leg heals at one point you can leave the crutches behind.

I wonder what you are aiming to achieve here Inert? Have you come here to get help for yourself? To support others? Or to push an agenda? Pardon me for speaking plainly but your posts here are blunt and authoritarian. You may have some valuable experience to share and that is welcome, but please take other people's ideas on board too. We've had our own experiences, many of which you won't know about because you are new here, and we are working from knowledge and wisdom gained from those. It might be interesting for you to read the beginning posts of some people here to get an idea of what they've already done, what works for them and what hasn't.

For example, you said


I only took an antidepressant because at the time it was a last resort and I was in a bad way -- I'm not sure if you know what that's like but I hope you haven't been there. I didn't know then what I know now. I would not take statins and I would do everything possible to avoid chemotherapy if I had cancer, though it's difficult to speculate about because I haven't had that particular experience. I would not take high doses of steroids for injuries; I would not take steroids for anything other than straightforward hormone replacement. I had a 24 hour saliva cortisol test which showed that my cortisol was very low in the morning and in the evening, and I was taking many supplements to help with this that weren't working. There's a lot of naturopathic literature about adrenal insufficiency -- by calling it "supposed" am I to assume that you doubt that I had it, or that it's a bona fide condition?

I've worked with several naturopathic doctors and I haven't stopped reading books and web pages about natural health during the 5 years I have been ill. I have done dozens of things to try to find out why I am ill and I am continuing now to try different things. I'm beginning to think that the only person who can help me now is me, though I always welcome educated advice from those who know a bit about me.

I've decided to broaden my self-treatment to that of leaky gut syndrome. I'm on an anti-candida regime and have eaten a clean Paleolithic diet for a month now, both of which are steps on the way. (The diet has been the big one -- I've hardly ever been able to get past sugar cravings for very long without giving in but this time I'm going to do it.) I still take a good variety of supplements and it looks like I just need to add a few more to help with repair of the intestinal lining. This article got me thinking:

http://www.ei-resource.org/news/men...depression-linked-to-leaky-gut-syndrome/

I'd been investigating chronic inflammation because my symptoms seem to match it, and this in turn can cause other things like adrenal fatigue. Here may finally be a cause of it. I ate some homemade curry with a good dose of turmeric in it and felt a bit better for a while, and discovered that turmeric is a strong anti-inflammatory used in Ayurvedic medicine.

Wish me luck At the moment I'm starting to go heavy on antifungals and probiotics because if I've had die-off symptoms they haven't been obvious yet.

Linda, so what does this diet mean exactly? Have you tried eating 4-6 very small meals a day rather than eating 2 large meals? That often helps get rid of sugar cravings and helps stabilize the blood sugar. Another thing that helps stabilize blood sugar is cinnamon. Are you taking any supplements to help boost serotonin? Some people find licorice root, 5 HTP, or St. John's Wort to be helpful. There may be other herbs or supplements as well that help boost serotonin.

animal protein actually causes osteoporosis , whether dairy or other animal sources. Even though milk etc may have high amounts of calcium , the net effect of drinking milk is demineralisation of bones . Taking calcium will not replace this demineralisation . It is acceptable to have some animal protein , including dairy , but it does not promote bone health ;the opposite is true.

I stand by my comment that prednisone caused weakening of my bones JK. I never drink soft drinks ,and take calcium and vitamin D

You have the same chance of being alive in ten years after being diagnosed with lung, breast , pancreatic or other cancers whether or not you get chemotherapy.
Doctors told me that I had a chemical imbalance and that I needed antidepressants to balance my neurotransmitters. I now know that these drugs cause rather than cure chemical imbalances nd that they actually destroy the brain cells they hyperstimulate, resulting in a permanant reduction in receptors and deficiencies in neurotransmitters such as dopamine.
Prednisone makes people feel better initially but that does not mean it's good for you.Like smoking, the best thing that can happen to someone that takes prednisone is that their health is not ruined . It doesn't cure anything.It may reduce inflamation short term but it usually returns and is worse than before You should do some research and consider the possibility that your hormone replacement is the main cause of your health problems and not the cure. I know people who trace serious health problems such as arthritis ,life threatening infections,to use of lose dose cortisone cream for skin rashes.
The Physicians Desk Reference is put out by the pharmaceutical industry so it is slanted toward hyping the positive effects of drugs and minimising the risks,yet it lists hundreds of hazards of prednisone.Shirley's wellness cafe is also a good alternative health site and has alot of information on prednisone.
If I hear a doctor say he wants to give me some pills to balance my hormones I'm out of there.

My wholistic MD says that steroid use causes many cases of food intolerance.

I think you've made it clear where you're coming from mate. If you took a less confrontational attitude maybe people here would be keener to have discussions with you. I've been through similar experiences to you yet I feel like you're demanding an explanation and an apology from me, which will not be forthcoming. Try doing some research on adrenal exhaustion and see what is recommended for people to do when it is severe.

There is much misinformation out there regarding animal protein and animal fats and in fact, the opposite is true to what you've stated about it in your quote. Both animal protein and animal fats played a large role in the diets of some of the healthiest specimens/cultures displaying impressive dental/bone development that a Dr Weston Price has studied in depth.

Here is one such article regarding how important animal protein (and fats) actually are: http://www.biblelife.org/boneloss.htm

Here are a few comments I've quoted for you below, but I suggest reading the entire article and the link provided in there.

I don't buy the argument that milk causes osteoporosis. The studies that claim this don't insure that adequate vitamin D and magnesium are taken. With large calcium intake, large magnesium intake is needed. Those studes having people drink plenty of milk did not supply magnesium supplementation.

People think that eating dairy will prevent osteoporosis and , according to several PhDs an biochem and nutrition professors that I know , this is false.People assume that because milk has large amounts af calcium , it is good for your bone health.The countries that have high dairy consumption are not neccessarily low in osteoporosis.I am not a vegetarian or animal rights fanatic. I eat some low fat meat but I get alot of my protein from non animal sources.
Almonds have high levels of zinc but this zinc is not very bioavailable.Just because something is high in a particular element does not mean it is a good source of it.

The drug companies want people to take prednisone for adrenal exaustion because it causes pretty much every disease so they will have a lifetime patient. When I and many other people stopped taking antidepressants , we felt much worse ,but this did not mean that we needed the drug or that it was improving our emotional state. The fact that people (including myself) feel much worse when they stop taking prednisone means that the drug is causing , not curing, their health problems.
A woman I know told me she had back pain from a car accident that would not go away until recently when she had a steroid shot. Steroids damage joints rather than healing them and just because she feels better for now does not mean she wont be harmed in the long run.I think most illnesses are caused by medicine.

Western medicine just makes people sicker and sicker , suppressing symptoms without finding out the causes of the symptoms and substituting those symptoms with worse ones caused by their their medications.If someones hormones are out of balance . it is probably because of medications taken in the past or toxins such as mercury.
Holistic health practitioners such as Constantine Henry believe that cures move in a predictable order - downwards and outwards, from the most important organs or body systems to the lesser ones , from the mental to the emotional to the physical and from the most recent symptoms to the oldest ones.
Prescription drugs make people more toxic and make ones symptoms change in the wrong direction ; people get sicker and the symptoms affect more impotant organs instead of lesser ones such as skin.
If you watch programs such as Mystery Diagnosis , you will see many cases where a person had a minor inflammation such as eye iritation from contacs and was given steroid drops and then later had more serious illnesses and was given more steroids and the symptoms once again diminished until new worse symptoms appeared.
In wholistic health suppressing symptoms is considered harmful since they are part of the process of detox and healing.

Do you have obvious grey bags under your eyes ? If not , maybe adrenal exaustion is not the problem