News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Hey all,

For starters, I'm the one who wrote the post "mercury cleansing nightmare, please help" I figure I'm going to be posting here frequently over the next year or so, so I may as well get a screen name (so you guys can keep track of me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So, I've determined what my problem stems from, this has been years in the making, tons of trial and error, not something I came up with after finding this site. I had my amalgums out, but on the advice of the Dentists, I started chelating before the fillings were out. The regimen she suggested would have removed mercury from the blood, but not loosened any, it was rather expensive though. What I did instead was get a prepackaged set, and later on did my own with cilantro extract and Chlorella (not knowing what I was doing, and not being informed by the Dentist)....it made me an emotional mess. The fillings came out in November of 2005, I continued to detox for about a month after as the emotional turmoil was all I could stand. I was crying all the time, suicidal, severely depressed. I am a 28 year old male. I used to be confident, competitive, social and energetic, I'm handsome and charming...but I now have Fibromyalgia, severe Chronic fatigue Syndrome, and debilitating depression, the emotional effect is what pains me the most.

I don't love life anymore, the only thing I love is my girlfriend and my family, but I haven't the, I don't know what, but all of that is falling apart as well. I have an intense feeling of detachment that is screwing up my life. It is all just passing me by as I sit here depressed and unable to do anything about it. I still cry for no reason, my sex drive is all screwed up, I feel weak and fragile where I used to feel strong and valiant. I used to be muscular and workout and run, now I'm wasting away with not the energy to even do stairs some days. I can't take it anymore but this all started, instantaneously when I attempted my heavy metal cleanse, there is not doubt in my mind I loosed a ton of metal and didn't get it out, it just shifted in my body and is now screwing up my adrenals, hormones and neurotransmitters.

So the amalgams have been out since 11/05 I just got Andy Cutlers book and have already read it. I have most of the ingredients for the regimen already in place and started the DMSA today. I have felt a little emotional, but thats not unusual, I have good days and bad days since I started Wellbutrin. The wellbutrin has saved me from the Chronic fatigue momentarily, but I don't want to be on this for the rest of my life, my questions for those of you who have already gone through this are (thanks in advance for all your help, I actually thank god for finding this place)

1) Since I had the amalgams out so long ago, per Andy's book it would seem I need to go straight to ALA as my blood levels are surely normal and the mercury has settled by now...don't you think?

2) What discomforts did you experience while chelating Andy's way? I know what the book says, but often real people experience is more reliable...

3) For those of you who have had intense emotional disturbances, how long did it take to get those under control? This is the part that is screwing up my life, I can live with the tiredness and the pain of FMS, I just want my healthy head back, and to feel attached to all of the things happening around me.... I can't really describe that feeling any better than that, I don't feel love the way I used to, I don't feel joy the way I used to, its like I'm disconnected.

4) What would you say the most important parts of the protocal are? I have the DMSA, ALA, B's, C's, E's, Selenuim, Merc free cod liver oil, good multivitamin support. But all that aside, what would you say are the aboslutely necessary components for this to work

5) last but not least, (this one is just to give me strength to suffer through it) how long do you think before I will have some emotional relief? Lie to me if you want <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />....

Hi claythrow! Good to see you registered, I like to see who I'm talking to (so to speak).

Wow, have I heard this story before many times!!! Yes, you obviously loosened a load of mercury and possibly gone from chronic poisoning to almost acute. Andy has talked about this before too, that you can actually have a poisoned person or animal (from mercury) and if the mercury is stored and the body has attempted to store it as best it can, using a product that is not controlled, can not only disrupt that mercury but move into far worse areas, brain being one of them.

I assume that this is what may have occured with you. That mercury may have all been disrupted and could have been shunted into more sensitive tissue, your brain may be one of those areas, hard to say.

Yes, you can chelate with ALA now if you want. Though some people choose to start with DMSA even if they are at the stage where they are ok to begin ALA to see how they go. However, that is up to you. You can use both at this stage, or either.

Yes, toxic poisoning like this will blunt your emotions, so you don't feel anything (except anger and deadness/grief). So it's really odd, you feel numb towards love, but absolute utter deadness and despair on the other side. It is really horrible. It's so bad, I can look at my family and think "well I must love you...." but the feeling? It's gone. It's like going through the motions and simply being familiar with them, but not having that feelng with it.

So your girlfriend would be very wise to read the book of Andy's and check out the symptoms and the emotional deadness, she should know about. Make her familiar with this so she will better understand you, or should I say "the mercury" because this isn't "you" at all. You are pretty much being manipulated like a puppet and your senses dulled at the sametime. You will also cry, feel vulnerable, or sometimes even callous like you just can't feel sorry for others. It's unbelieveable what it does. And yes you feel weak and pathetic. Boy I know all this really well.

I reckon you got all the basic supplements you'll need, they sound good to me but you would need magnesium to add to that and possibly calcium and zinc if that helps. Plus make sure you're eating enough fats like butter, olive oil, etc. They help, with the fish oil you got and you could try flaxseed oil per andy's suggestions if that helps too.

Main thing is to avoid the dietry foods that can make you mcuh worse like sugar, wheat/gluten and other grains, honey, milk, fruit (because of their natural sugars) and concentrate on eggs, meat, vegetables (possibly lower or eliminate potatoes due to natural sugars). All these things may help because candida may now be part of your suffering. it usually goes along with toxicity and increases the misery (sometimes severely so).

But chelation will be the way to go from this point on. Diet, supplements are necessary to aid you along the way, chelation will be the way to start getting rid of this disrupted mercury.

How long do I think it would be for you to experience relief? Well, you could experience it very early on if you do things right, or a few months down the track. But even when you start feeling better, it's not a cure. It just means the mercury is being deal with more appropriately and the chelation is beginning to keep things more stable for you. Removing mercury can take far longer, but you can "feel" better earlier.

So I'd say there really is no exact time frame, because everybody is different. Give yourself a chance within the next few weeks and see what happens then.

Be and Claythrow,

Before I learned about mercury issues, I was exploring a phenomenon called Depersonalization to explain my symptoms.

Like Claythrow, I was in shape, socially active in New York city, healthy and happy. Then, 6 weeks after getting a flu shot with Thimerosol (mercury) in it, everything changed. (I was also taking alpha lipoic acid, 600 mgs 1x a day as an antioxidant, which could have taken that thimerosol right into my brain. I was also jogging over a bridge in NYC, which was totally choked with auto exhaust).

I was and am TOTALLY emotionally blunted. Now, this is a KEY aspect of the depersonalization diagnosis. I also started getting brain fog and headaches shortly thereafter.

Interestingly, I met with a doctor who is one of the leading experts on Depersonalization, and told her about the mercury hypothesis. She said other patients have brought it up to her, but she didn't believe it. That said, she was very naive about mercury's potential effects. She tried to tell me the emotional deadening and the brain fog were because I got dumped by a woman in November. Sorry, but there's no way on earth what I'm experiencing is from getting dumped.

Anyway, Bex, ESPECIALLY what you're describing is depersonalization symptoms. Feeling detached and numb. Below is a link to a DP bulletin board; check it out.

So, perhaps we are all "DP'd" as they say, or perhaps DP is mercury poisoning. What do you all think?

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/

HI, No for me it's not like that, actually very different. I know it's the toxicity, because anytime I get an improvement in health, everything else switches back on again. I feel happier and I feel like doing things again, going out, and I actually like people. I mean I feel emotions. But when i'm ill, it just disappears.

That doctor of yours is probably fixated on what she's learned and may not be receptive to hearing about the impact of toxicity/mercury. People are actually mostly naturally positive, but anything can change them if they are ill or poisoned.

But no I dont have the depersonalisation disorder, many of those symptoms dont quite fit what I mean. But thanks for posting it, becuase i never even knew that existed!!! wow.

All those things are connected to the health of our body and brain and if they're poisoned, then is it any wonder we feel like this?

I was just so struck by what you wrote about the numbing. That is my principle symptom right now. I cannot feel anything. I've been pinned down like that since January.

I find it far more plausible that mercury has done something to my neurotransmitters or brain structure than a psychological cause, which this doctor asserts.

I started taking a supplement that Andy recommends called Vinpocetine, which is REALLY helping my brain fog and headaches so far. I just started it today and I feel great. But the blunted emotions are still there. I wonder if only ALA will take care of that.

I also wonder if Andy has any tricks up his sleeve in terms of a compounding pharmacy that can make slow-release ALA that you don't have to wake up to take. I know he's skeptical of timed-release formulations, but still, someone might be able to do it.

Yeah there is a numbing a deadness, but not quite like the link you sent. I can't explain it, but I just know it's not psychological but illness instead. I know myself and how I am and you'd know that about yourself as well.

Blunting of emotions coudl well be brain mercury and ALA may help you with that. I'm actually taking it now myself. Just started, becuase I dont know what else to do. I know I sure have other issues going on, like infections etc, but I figure why not? I might as well do it anyway.

But again, your blunt emotions may not be brain mercury, it can be mercury anywhere that can do that. IT's hard to say. You won't know until you have been chelating a while. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

My emotional numbness is amalgam related IMO. Why did it happen right upon the metal removal. I have brief periods of feeling, so I know its not totally lost. It's almost like my normal self resurfaces for a bit, to feel the glorious sensation of the sun, and then gets sucked right back into the hole that it has been in....I wasn't like this before.

So far took 4 hits of DMSA, 50, 50, 50, 100. I feel fine, no change at all, if anything I feel better at the moment. I wonder if this will stick and ameliorate my symptoms, or if the DMSA is not potent enough to do anything so I won't feel it, hmmm. The good that I'm feeling right now is not uncommon, but that feeling sticking around for any period of time is.

A side point, I do have a magnesium supplement, I just forgot to mention it.

If the DMSA continues to do nothing should I up the dose again?

And I can't find the page now, but I thought AC's book said to stay away from sulphur foods like eggs while chelating?

Well, I think some people get dramatically worse upon removing the offending material because they are often exposed to a lot of it in the process, plus it seems to set off the body into some kind of unloading mode. As though removal of the meta from the mouthl seems to alert the system into dumping it's storage of it.

Andy calls this the second phase of suffering. It can happen anytime. But usually, according to Andy, about 6 months following amalgam removal. For me it happened almost instantly, then went into a bit of a remmission then I really got hit later and that was when I had to chelate to do something about it. Unfortunately I chelated with anything and everything and made myself go through so much hell just to remove a bit of mercury. Andy's protocol I stumbled on much later and his was the only one that enabled me to chelate easier and the symptoms were not easy, but there were not totally insane like with other stuff.

The DMSA yu're taking now could be helping you because it can sometimes control symptoms. So it does not always make you feel worse, for some it does the opposite. Some people want to stay on it all the time for that reason!

If you feel it's just a good patch and that the DMSA may not really be doing a thing, you could try upping it, or trying it for a few more rounds before deciding. Symptoms do not always show up at first, they can hit you later on. So be careful.

You could increase dose if you want, and keep going and maybe do another few rounds and if there continues to be no change, better or worse, then I'd probably add the ALA.

Just my thoughts.

As for the eggs? Yes, Andy mentions that some people who are mercury toxic may find high sulfur foods a problem, because they can mobilise the mercury. For me? They used to be a big issue, but mainly if I included too much in one meal. I can handle eggs, but not if I include a pile of other sulfur foods with it. Main problems with me are overdoing it in one meal.

I must have eggs because on this diet, I am limited in what I can eat and they don't seem to do much anymore. you'll have to decide that based on how you feel with them.

Andy's book morealess suggests people do a trial if they suspect a problem with high sulfur foods. He does definitely advise caution and some have to eliminate them. But it makes it very ahrd becuase so much else has to be elimianted like sugar, gluten etc. What does that leave us? barely nothing. Meat and veges and even then, no sulfur veges. I couldn't do that. I'd be half starved. So best to do take it easy and not overdo it I think.

> If the DMSA continues to do nothing should I up the dose again?

Impossible, it is doing something. You might eat some cilantro when you take the DMSA though to give it a kick (or use the ALA), don't overdo the cilantro and oy veh, you are taking a lot of DMSA already. Too much chelation can overload your kidneys so do not overdo it.

I would add some fiber to your diet to make sure you don't get constipated from the ALA. You'll smell the metal when you flush the throne and you'll know for sure something is happening.

eat well drink lots of fresh filtered water.

By the way Claythrow, you may find this link of interest if you haven't seen it already.
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html

Many answers and questions there from Andy and patients. Though I have his book, I still find that link helpful.

I would add magnesium to your list thats been a big part of my recovery and just dont try to rush things go slow and increase chelators and doses slowly, sometimes for periods no/little mercury gets released could be 3 months then a large amount does which can be very uncomfortable

Just adding to the above. Same deadness that began a few years back. Had no idea it was related to mercury or that I was poisoned through amalgams. I went through a series of emotional states. Pre amalgam removal had quite a ride for a month when a doctor suggested I use chlorella and selenium while amalgams still in, thought I would lose my mind and I had to tell my husband to watch me and not believe me if I got fearful and weird.

As I started to detox just with diet, ridding my diet of sugar and dairy (due to gallstones) and caffeine, my body started to feel a little better. Cut out the chlorella and Seleniumn and the symptoms for me were still there, just way less dramactic.

The more dramatic change came when I got the bugger amalgams out in Jan/Feb this year. One week later I was washing the car! Which was huge, given I had suffered from CFS for 6 years. However, when I began to chelate a week later some of the mental symptoms return. I had to resist impulisveness, crying, depression, unstable thoughts, a lot of prayer and reminding myself that I knew where the symptonms were coming from.

When I really started to notice a difference is the 6th round of chelation. I started with DMSA for two weeks, switched to DMPS ==found a doctor who was familiar with Cutler protocol. After two weeks of DMPS and just about 3 months post amalgam removal, added ALA 25 mgs, that was last week, this week would make it two weeks. Wow, what a difference in thinking ability and clarity as well as regaing a bit of cofidence. This has given me all the more reason to keep on going.

As Bex states, everyone is different and the rate at which your changes occur depend upon the existing variables. Hope this helps.

Gabriella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok, just to clarify...I had the dosage wrong, I started with 25 and am now taking 50 every four hours.

This morning I woke up very tired, I don't think it was from waking up for the doses as I don't ever sleep through the night anyway. Today mood has been overall stable, but I am a bit tired. That link is very helpful, thanks for that. I will probably continue this one at 50, and perhaps try the next one at 100mg and see how that goes. If it is tolerable I will start it with the ala and see where we get. I will keep you posted.

Will the DMSA pull merc out of my organs and just not my brain? It seems that DMSA will release and chelate organ mercury but ALA is needed for the brain...
I'm having much better luck with this than with the chlorella so far.

HI Claythrow, DMSA is not actually for your organs/brain, it is to chelate/reduce the mercury in your blood and tissue. It may indeed, to a certain extent, chelate "some" organ mercury, but does NOT chelate mercury from the brain to any clinical degree.

alpha lipoic acid chelates organ and brain mercury (everything basically), which is why it is wise to use it much later in the programme once you have reduced blood levels first. DMSA is good for doing that.

Some people decide to skip DMSA and go straight to ALA, but they are advised to wait for about 3 months post amalgam removal (or any mercury exposure) to allow the blood levels to reduce first naturally. Then they can use ALA on it's own if they wish from then on.

MOst do DMSA first for about 3 months or so and then add ALA after that. EVen if you are past 3 months post amalgam removal and can use ALA, but haven't yet tried DMSA, you may want to give DMSA a go first regardless on its own and see if you notice anything, because even then at that stage, it may still remove more mercury from those areas and you may want to do that for a while anyway. Some do this as an extra cautionary measure. it's not absolutely necessary, but it is a good move.

Those who cannot tolerate DMSA don't have much choice, and simply go straight to ALA after the 3 months of doing nothing. According to Andy, ALA is essential anyway. He feels DMSA is more optional. Though I know people who have gotten well by DMSA alone, so I think it's much stronger than its being made out to be and I always feel it's worth a try before doing anything else.

25 mg - 50 mg, is a typical starting dose, though some are so toxic, they have been known to have to use far lower doses, even 6 mg - 12.5 mg. I found 25 mg to work for me in the beginning and later 50 mg was ok. Some start at 50 mg and can move up to 100 mg.

Whatever works for the person. No need to tolerate side effects that overwhelm the person, because if you get enough on 6 mg, you are stilll chelating mercury at that level at at a dose your body can tolerate and keep up with.

Hi Claythrow,

I just started chelating about a month ago on Andy Cutler's protocol with DMSA. I waited to chelate until after all of my amalgams and gold crowns were removed first. I haven't had any of the extreme symptoms of some of those here on the board, but when I am chelating I find myself also becoming extremely tired (even more than usual)--at least at the beginning of the campaign, like the first couple of days or so. Not sure why this happens, but it does for me anyway. It drives my wife nuts, and she wonders why I have no initiative to do anything around the house, and why I sleep for 10-12 hours per day on weekends, and basically do nothing the rest of the time that I am awake. It's also like I seem to give everything that I've got while I am at work during weekdays, and then I crash once I am in the safety of my own house.

I started my first two weekly campaigns at 25mg every 3 hours, and just started my third run on Saturday at 50mg every 3 hours. So far, not too much in the way of adverse reactions, other than being tired, and having occasional brain fog. I have noticed however, that my mood is actually becoming brighter overall, and I am happy at work quite a bit of the time now, where before I sort of had to fake a happy face a lot of the time. I worry about the 6-month period when the organs start dumping the mercury--I just hope that things don't become too bad at this time for me. I will keep everyone posted as to how the recovery continues. I may start ALA in a couple of months, but want to wait to see what I feel like first.

Jason

Sorry, forgot to log in--the last post was mine. :-)

Jason

Starting yesterday and this morning my mood is terrible. I'm angry, sad, and emotional : ( One more day to get through and hopefully this will go away.

Hi Claythrow, yes it can happen. Some feel better during chelation, some feel worse. You maybe on too high a dose for you at this time. May need to start lower, like 25 mg or less if you find the 50 mg too much.

Only do as much as you can handle. If it's overwhelming, you may end up chelating less as a result. better to go lower in dose so you can chelate more often.

But again, some side effects are expected sometimes, its hard to move a toxin and not experience symptoms and the mental and emotional ones are common. At least it shows it's doing something, but it's not pleasant to go through. but for sure if the DMSA is exacerbating your symptoms, you can be pretty certain it's hitting the problem!

You may have good round and bad rounds. Sometimes the DMSA made me feel better, other times worse. I would just try and stick it out and keep going somehow to remove more mercury.

I hope you can hang in there and keep doing these 3 days (or longer), cycles for a time and hopefully you will begin to see improve with reduction of mercury.

Right now I feel good again, this morning I felt like crap, very emotional and I felt like crying. A friend situation that I should just be able to get over is bothering me. I'm feeling very jealous over my girlfriend.

What do you guys think about keeping a log of my detox and progress etc. I'm on the computer every day anway, I don't think it would be a huge hassle to post some brief comments about how I've been feeling, what dosage and progress etc. It could make a great sticky thread for the site and maybe help me to knuckle down at the same time.

Algin should be arriving today and will incorporate that asap

Yeah, it's a roller coaster ride. It's cruel that this situation should even be happening, but that's what they've done to people by shoving mercury into fillings. And believe me, this stuff makes you more vulnerable, moody, jealous, than anything. I have had fits over the most petty stuff,but to me? It's serious and I can't see it any other way at the time.

I think you should definitely keep a log and go through what you're experiencing becuase you may see things alter over time. if you don't do that, you may not be aware of what things are actually changing.

Write down the symptoms you experience these days and see if they change over time.

I mean a log on this forum. I'll make a post and keep editing it as I go along. THe first round of DMSA is already done as of this morning...

Good idea, thanks. That'll help people see what symptoms you go through and what progress (if any) is being made.

I agree Bex, I think a log will be a great idea for all of us. I would post more myself on my own recovery, but it seems like between supporting my family, tending to my job that I started about the beginning of December last year, and studying my Bible, there hasn't been a lot of time for much else lately. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My experience with the symptoms while using DMSA has been much like what you posted earlier--the symptoms seem to come and go from time to time. I assume that this must be the mercury stores breaking loose sometimes, although the fact that I seem to have some good days at all is an improvement from the past, and I'll gladly take it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />