News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Hi everyone. I have mentioned in a few posts that I think that mercury can have a strong negative effect on the endocrine system, especially the pituitary (controls thyroid and adrenals). I found some pituitary glandulars on the internet and I can't wait to get them and try them, I'm very excited. I urge other people to try out some pituitary glandulars! Take a look on the net and you will find quite a bit of info that says mercury binds strongly to the pituitary.

I had Jinx in mind when I found these glandulars, it sounds like he has some serious thyroid/adrenal stuff going on, and likely pituitary. I recommend these glandulars if you're reading, Jinx.

This site here sells the product and has a blurb on it. You can also get it on amazon or ebay. http://www4.shopping.com/xPC-Bayho_Pituitary_Glandular_40mg_100_Tablets_American_Biologics

-Colin

hi colin: glandulars are an exellent way to rebuild and repair damaged organs, they have been used for thousands of years to treat thyroid,adrenal,pituatary,liver, kidney ect......disorders untill 1968 they were actually being by made by some of the leading pharaceutical companies,then synthetic hormones like hydrocortisone and others started to make there way on market ,they found that there was no money in natural alternative treatments (you can not patent natural remedies) most glandulars are made from either cow or pig organs they are very compatible with the human body unlike synthetics

I wish there were a way to get a very small sample of each of the many different types of glandular supplements. Say I pill of each for muscle testing purposes. I have seen where you can get allergy muscle testing kits (many glass bottles with all different kinds of allergy producing things) and I always thought it would be great to have an assortment of different supplements to test with.

Hey Gary

That's great you're into muscle testing, its a great diagnostic tool. Here is a test for you... Stand in front of your computer, relax, calm your mind, point to each of the following glands and muscle test yourself for it:

Hypothalamus


Pituitary


Adrenals


Thyroid


When I test myself for pituitary it is very weak. I ordered some glandulars and am just waiting to get them. If you don't trust your testing that much maybe you can buy one of those multi glandulars with hypothalamus/pituitary/adrenals/thyroid.

-Colin

Muscle testing is quackery

^^ Agreed Atleast the ways I've experienced it and seen it done is absurd.

Colin! looks like we caught the eye of the A.M.A. by mentioning muscle testing. Applied Kiniesiology has been around a long time, and many sports athletes have used it for decades. I can't understand how it has escaped the general public for so long. Thanks for your advice....

Many sports athletes pray to god before games to win, doesn't mean its working...

Considering that Dietrich Klinghardt has saved the lives of thousands of metal toxic people, and considering that he invented the most innovative form of muscle testing - Autonomic Response Testing, which in my experience is totally reliable....it becomes laughable to say that muscle testing is quackery. Maybe it's Stephen Barrett in disguise who wrote that.

Is this what you are talking about...cuz I've had homeopaths, chiropractors etc do this and it was ridiculous, the results were the same each time even though I was told there was a difference that was to determine my treatment. I guess my polarity is not 100% <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr8MHgWZyAs&mode=related&search=

I already told you what i'm talking about, to which, you clearly know nothing about.

Dental Holocaust,
your response wasn't up there when I found the link and posted that, I was talking to the other people in the thread. In short...I wan't talking to you.


The link was to establish what I've seen and experienced and what I am calling bogus.

Ah ok. But all i can say is that the leading experts i'm aware of (i don't include Cutler in that) wouldn't be using ART if it didn't work. All the best clinics use it as part of their diagnostic weaponary.

If some of you don't believe in muscle testing than that is fine. I just think that mercury has a destructive effect on the body's glands and that getting rid of mercury might not solve all of the problems of a person with mercury poisoning. Full recovery may require repairing the damaged glands. And what better way to do this than with glandulars?

From reading a lot and from my own experience of being sick including taking several years worth of adrenal glandulars I believe that mercury poisoning has an especially destructive effect on the pituitary gland. My symptoms have always been of adrenal fatigue but adrenal glandulars never helped. "Pituitary fatigue" is probably a more accurate term for describing what has made me sick for so many years and it was caused by the damaging effects of mercury.

I don't think my case is so unique. I think that mercury has a high affinity for your pituitary gland and when it is there, it does damage and reduces the pituitary's hormone output. Reduced ACTH and TSH leads to reduced thyroid hormones and adrenal hormones, which has a devastating effect on your emotional state. Your thyroid and adrenals may not be damaged but if they aren't getting the go-ahead from the pituitary then they won't do their job.

The emotional symptoms of mercury poisoning are caused by endocrine disruption and for that reason it would be a good idea to look into glandulars; I recommend trying adrenal and pituitary glandulars first.

-Colin

^^ I agree with you. Are you saying that supplementing w hormones will nurse the weakened pit. back to health? (not a trick question)

Claythrow,

That's is part of it but not the whole story. Read heavymetalme's post, that is the second one in this thread. Glandulars do contain hormones but small amounts. The hormones present in the glandular will elevate your level of these particular hormones, but only slightly. This might be enough to give your gland a bit of a "break".

As far as I know the major theraputic effect of glandulars is that they supply the raw materials needed for rebuilding damaged glands. When glands are damaged by stress (mercury is a stressor) or underused (steroid overuse) the gland actually shrinks in size. The gland has to be physically rebuilt to a full healthy size. That is why glandulars are so excellent for healing endocrine problems.

Some people will go on low physiologic (sub-replacement) doses of cortisol as a treatment for adrenal fatigue and as far as I am concerned this will give the adrenal gland enough of a break to repair, even without glandulars. I know of several holistic MDs that prescribe this. The glandular treatment is faster and more likely to work though, I think. I had a book called Safe Uses of Cortisol, that is a great book that outlines how to use bioidentical cortisol in low doses to recover from adrenal fatigue.

Glanular treatment is really the way to go, it is gentle, effective and glandulars are readily available without prescription. And if you have a weak pituitary you can't buy pituitary hormones, so glandulars are definitely the way to go.

-Colin

When you take hormones you reduce your own ability to produce hormones , sometimes permanantly. There are many people going from doctor to doctor with illnesses that are caused by hormone use .

In the book "Safe Uses of Cortisol" by William McK. Jefferies, M.D. he describes how to use low doses of bioidentical cortisol to heal the adrenal glands.

He outlines that the major problems with prescription cortisol as:
1. Most prescribed cortisol is synthetic and has a strongly supressive effect on the adrenals.
2. The prescribed doses of this synthetic cortisol is very high, much too high, and as a result has a supressive effect.

He says that with low doeses of bioidentical cortisol it can be enough to take some of the workload off of the overburdened adrenals and give them a chance to heal. If you are interested at all I recommend his book. I'd recommend galndulars before hormones any day.

-Colin

Cortisol supplementation,whether synthetic or not will reduce your own production of cortisol.It's amazing how people who are so critical of mainstream medicine are so quick to take drugs.

the great thing about glandulars is that they do not shut your bodies own production of hormones ,unlike synthetic hormones ,even after 3 weeks on a low dose hydocortisone it takes your body several weeks to resume it's own production again ,and if used for a year or longer it could shut down natural hormone production forever

Anonymous, I agree with you that drugs are not the answer. The steroid route is one that should be avoided unless there is no other choice. I just wanted to provide that information as some food for thought. Glandulars are the answer to weakend glands; homeopathics can be quite helpful too.

-Colin

Colin,

I also really have to watch my adrenals and need lots of B vitamins and tons of magnesium to try and keep my autonomic nervous system balanced (always trying to be in the sympathetic mood). I've learned that as long as I drink 12-15 eight oz. glasses of water a day, I can usually stay in the good. But, it seems to me a rediculous amount for me (I only weigh @ 95 at the moment). I know that the pituitary makes Anti-diurectic hormone. I wonder if this is my issue.

How did you come to decide it was your pituitary?

I know a body builder whose doctor told him he would have to take testosterone for the rest of his life because of the steroids he took to build muscle.
Do you know of any natural means of resuming hormone production after it's been reduced or eliminated by use of hormones?

testosterone is different from hyrocortisone ,hydrocortisone is a corticosteroid and affects the adrenal glads,via the hypothalamus and pituitary but the oral or injected testosterone used for body building is anabolic type which will shut down the bodies testosterone production but the testicles will resume production ,(even worst case) could take up to a year but usualy about 4 to 5 months .in that case taking a raw testicle or(orchid) glandular (moderate dose) will reverse most of the damage and help speed up the process and taking 50 mg zinc daily will increase testosterone production once it has started again

I used to dabble in the bodybuilding industry. I was actually a consultant for non-natural steroid regimens and programs, and I used almost all of the drugs myself as well. I always heard that rumor of testosterone, as well as taking t3(cytomel etc) can shut down your natural thyroid production forever. But I've never seen one case, including my own, where it has actually happened...not one. A persons body will correct the imbalance over time, usually within 3 months, in a very bad case, 6-8 months.

prednisone is the worst offerder of all the corticosteroids out there ,a friend of mine was precribed this drug about 18 years ago for her hip pain and was told to continue taking it for her pain ,little did she know what damage she was doing to her adrenals, last year after an MRI she was told by her doctor that her adrenal glands had atrophied to the size of rasins and would have to be on prednisone for the rest of her life ,she has now lost her eyesight and has many health issues related to her corticosteroid use ,just one more tragic story on how we are mislead by the so-called professionals that we put our trust in

it depends on how much prenisone / prednisolone you take. If you take massive pharmacological doses you will suppress your adrenals and need to take it for the rest of your life, with all the attendant side effects. If you take physiological doses, ie, no more than adrenal glands would produce themselves ona calm day (15-25 mg - the equivalent of 4-6 mg Pred) then there is little risk of adrenal suppression. Here is a medical study that shows this:

STUDY ON HPA AXIS AND LOW DOSE PREDNISONE
>
>
>
> Am J Med. 1993 Sep;95(3):258-64.
>
>
> Recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis in
> patients with
> rheumatic diseases receiving low-dose prednisone.
>
> LaRochelle GE Jr, LaRochelle AG, Ratner RE, Borenstein DG.
>
> Division of Rheumatology, George Washington University Medical
> Center,
> Washington, D.C. 20037.
>
> PURPOSE: To assess the status of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal
> (HPA)
> axis in cortico-steroid-treated patients whose prednisone dose had
> been
> tapered to physiologic doses. PATIENTS AND METHODS: The design of
> the study
> was a retrospective chart review of 50 consecutive patients
> receiving 10 mg
> or less of prednisone daily at a university teaching hospital
> rheumatology
> clinic. Patients were given a rapid adrenocorticotropic hormone
> stimulation
> test, with cortisol levels obtained at baseline and after intravenous
> administration of cosyntropin. Charts were reviewed for duration of
> therapy,
> highest, current, and total cumulative steroid dose, and average
> daily
> steroid dose in each month of the preceding 2 years. RESULTS: Current
> steroid dose was the only significant indicator of HPA axis function.
> Patients receiving less than 5 mg of prednisone daily had a normal
> HPA axis
> response, whereas those receiving 5 mg or more had widely varied
> responses.
> Neither the total, the highest prednisone dose, nor the duration of
> therapy
> was a significant indicator of HPA axis recovery. CONCLUSIONS:
> Spontaneous
> recovery of the HPA axis is usual for patients who are taking
> prednisone at
> daily doses of 5 mg or less. Return of normal HPA axis function can
> be
> achieved without alternate-day therapy in patients whose disease
> allows
> tapering to daily prednisone doses of 5 mg or less.
>
> Publication Types:
> a.. Review
> b.. Review, Tutorial
>
> PMID: 8368224 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>

So it really does depend on the dose. Most of us taking cortisol to help our adrenals are taking no more than 20-25mg a day, which is merely replacing what our adrenals can't produce, shouldn't be expected to suppress them, and shouldn't have the side-effects asssociated with the massive doses of steroids prescribed by ignorant doctors.

Best
Nicola

hi imgeha: it sounds like you are well informed (good for you )unfortunaly for my friend she was not so informed by her quack I mean so -called doctor, she was put 0n 20mg pednisone and at one point was on as much as 40 mg daily ,that is what really messed her up

Missy, that's good that you find magnesium and B vitamins help, every little bit helps. Drinking a good amount of water is important too.

I rely pretty heavily on muscle testing when I am investigating my health, I use testing a lot to test what things are good for me or what areas of my body are weak. I used to muscle test badly for mercury but after a few months I have gotten rid of it all and it tests fine (no more mercury!).

The last place my mercury seemed to be holed up in was my pituitary gland, this is the result I got from muscle testing. It made sense to me since I've read that the pituitary binds mercury quite strongly. When the time came that I started testing fine for mercury (it was all gone) and I still felt exactly the same I was devestated. I really thought I would be better after it was all gone.

There is no question that I have low cortisol and I've already been on 3+ years of adrenal glandulars with no improvement. Weak adreanls certainly heal in less time than 3 years, so weak adrenals has essentially been ruled out.

Then there is the question of the hypothalamus or pituitary being the weak link in the chain. Muscle testing has consistently shown that my hypothalamus is working fine and that my pituitary is very not fine. I also muscle test very good for the pituitary glandular I am taking now.

-Colin

He did'nt take testosterone for body building ,yet his ability to produce testosterone was destroyed. Danny Bonaduce,an actor and talk show host, took steroids and he also cannot produce testosterone.

The article does'nt suggest that prednisone does'nt impair one's ability to produce hormones. It simply states that at a dose much lower than yours, for a short enough duration, you can regain the ability to produce hormones within a certain time after you stop taking them.The atrticle deals with use of prednisone for arthritis. Prednisone will make arthritis worse and damage the immune system although it will initially make people feel better.

Sorry anonymous - I don't understand what you mean. The study shows that 5mg of Pred a day (equivalent to 20mg of cortisol) doesn't suppress HPA activity. Higher doses may or may not, depending on the individual and presumably the state of their adrenals before they started taking pred. I agree this may be different for already adrenally fatigued people.

I don't know about the effects of pred on arthritis. It is arguable whether pred depresses the immune system, or enables you to fight off infections and viruses. I stress dose when I feel something coming on, as my adrenals can't increase their output of cortisol as they should, and the virus is gone in 24 hours or short-lived.

Believe me, I would rather not be taking pred, but I feel it's important to have a balanced view for those who need to take steroids. There is a huge difference between pharmacological and physiological doses. I would rather not have had a mouthful of leaking amalgams that trashed my adrenals, but I didn't have any say over that either.

Best
Nicola

Do you muscle test yourself and if so how?

There are isolated cases where people stop producing significant amounts of testosterone anyway. Danny Bonaduce makes his $ on shock, take anything said on that show or by him/his affiliates with a grain of salt. He also wants to be on testosterone for the rest of his life, and doctors in that echelon will propose anything to keep that kind of customer happy. Chris Benoit (the wrestler who just killed his wife, kid and then himself was also prescribed testosterone on the basis that his body was not producing enough. Take a look at his photo's and tell me he was being prescribed a dose of testosterone to supplement his retarded gland, it's all about the $.

There are substances you can take that will start your natural testosterone production back up again, clomid/chlomid is one of them. Bonaduce is an amatuer when it comes to steroid abuse, (though it is a major contributor to why he is so phychotic) I've seen and worked with the heavy hitters and the industry and never seen it actually happen. Countering that argument with more hear-say is meaningless.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but if there was a correlation to testosterone use, I think I would have come across in the hundreds of people that I worked with. Same goes for T3. It takes time but an otherwise healthy person's system will start producing again.

Now, if you were to take large amounts of testosterone for years on end, never taking a break, until you were 55, I could picture atrophying yourself so badly, at an age where the body has already begun to break down the recovery would be difficult...but someone that stupid reaps what they sow, and their experience cannot be used to estimate what would happen with proper use.

Missy, yes, I do test myself. I like to go see my naturopath or muscle test with someone else once in a while to see if I'm getting good answers but I do the vast majority of my testing on myself. I usually do it one of two ways:
1. On my arm. Gauge the strength of your push so the push on your arm isn't enough to move your arm form the position in it trying to hold. Now think "yes" and your arm should be strong and resist your push. Next think "no" and your arm should be too weak to resist the push, it should be weak against the push and be moved by it. So there is the basic testing method. Try hold a supplement or think of something (mercury, adrenals, thyroid, pituitary, parasites, etc.) and do the arm pushing test. Weak should mean no, strong should mean yes. This is much harder to explain than it is to do.

2. Stand up straight and let a forward sway be yes and a backward sway be no. Hold a supplement or think of something and let your self sway to the front or back.

You can probably find a much better explatation with pictures on the net than I just gave you. I suggest you don't rely solely on muscle testing, especially right away. Use it as a way to get hints. If you can't get clear answers from testing I recommend getting testing done on you by someone else. If all else fails pray for some answers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Colin

Heavemetal,
I bet your friend has the bone density of a seventy year old from the steroids.

I talked to an ex chiropractor who admitted they hold your arm in a position that makes it easy to push down when "testing" things that are bad for you like sugar and in another position when testing beneficial substances.

In what capacity do you" work with heavy hitters in the industry"?Do you look at their medical records?

It would be interesting to see how much of these hormones your body can now produce if you stop taking prednisone vs your levels of these hormones before you started prednisone.

[/quote]I talked to an ex chiropractor who admitted they hold your arm in a position that makes it easy to push down when "testing" things that are bad for you like sugar and in another position when testing beneficial substances. [/quote]

Hmm. It would be wise to go to a practitioner you feel is trustworthy. Avoid someone who you think may lie to you or intentionally mislead you.

hi jill: yes she does , she has also been diagnosed with severe osteoparosis because of the way prednisone interferes with the conversion of vitamin d in the liver ultimately affecting calcium absorbtion through the bones(VERY NASTY STUFF) almost as bad as amalgams

Once a drug has FDA apprroval,there is basically no post approval surveillance of the drug .Almost all post market studies are performed by the drug companies themselves, not exactly unbiased sources of information. There is anarticle on post apprvoval testing of drugs in the June25,2007 edition of The New Yorker on pg 40.
In any case , the article does'nt suggest that supplemental steroids don't inhibit your own production of steroids.

jill I agree : high dose corticosteroids that cause adrenal atrophy would be a treasure for the drug companies ,then they can write five more prescriptions just to keep that once normal patient to function properly from day to day , and don't even start me on anti-depressants ,they are a wolf in sheeps clothing

At the time I was a consultant for bodybuilders. I would design cycles and diet regimens. I had no access to medical records or any such thing. These guys (and myself at the time) were heavy steroid users. I was doing 3grams of test a week at some points, this is in combination with other steroids, Growth hormone, insulin the whole 9. My point is, I never once saw a person who failed to produce test. when coming off a large and long cycle or who was permanently disabled in that capacity.

anabolic streroids and corticosteroids are totaly different in how they work , the only thing that they have in common is that they affect the signals to the pituitary and hypothalamus,anobolics steroids will shut down testosterone production in the testicles , but temporarly in most cases ,but corticosteroids will shut down cortisol production in the adrenal glands temporarly if a physiological dose (20 mg or less daily)is used any dose larger than that is where problems like adrenal atrophy can occur

Colin:

I was wondering if you have done enough research on yourself or on others to know whether or not you can take this in conjunction with the Hydrocortisone? I am on 20 mgs HC, 2 grains of Armour and was taking Pure brand ADR-Adrenal support, but switched to HC back in May.

Thanks,
Gabriella

Gabriella, I used to be much worse than I am. I spent a year+ in a bed and was so hypersensitive I couldn't watch tv, listen to music or have the curtains open. Obviously these were symptoms of severe cortisol deficentcy. I was diagnosed by a doctor as having low cortisol and I started taking the stuff (physiologic doses). To this day I have no idea why it didn't make me feel better, but it didn't. The only time cortisol actually made me feel better was when I had a cold, it kind of brought me back to normal. I didn't start feeling better until I got rid of my EBV. My experience with EBV, and some reading I have done, has made me sure that viruses, at some stage of the endocrine signaling process- wether it be hypothalamic, pituitary or adrenal- halt the production of cortisol. The book "Safe Uses of Cortisol" has a whole chapter on viruses and how they reduce your cortisol output.

I can tell you that my symptoms are of an endocrine origin and that low cortisol is a major part of the problem but taking cortisol doesn't help. I muscle test badly for it and whenever I take it I feel terrible, which puzzles me. I like doing the detective work with my health, but I have no idea why cortisol makes me feel worse instead of better, it seems bizarre really. So I know I have more to learn about the endocrine system. I think once I get my pituitary back on track I will be doing a lot better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Colin

Steroid use will increase the body's levels of Cortisol but it is a bad thing for Bodybuilders, they in fact take substances to block it. I wonder if we are talking about the same cortisol in the same timeline of the body.

colin : can you tell more about this ebv virus and how you got ride of it ( very interested)

glancina : most doctors that are experienced in the use of hyrocortisone try to only use hyrocortisone for no more than three months and at 20 mg or less to avoid adrenal atrophy predisone at 4-6 mg daily

Heavymetalme, sure! Everything I've heard about Epstein-Barr Virus is that you don't get it unless something is already wrong, like say mercury poisoning causing endocrine disruption, causing low cortisol and thyroid hormones with an ultimate effect of a weak immune system (me). I was going to my naturopath for about 6 months (one of the few things I got out of bed for) and one appointment he randomly tested for EBV with his vega tester, and it showed up in a big way. He gave me a homeopathic medicine called "Bio 88" by Tegor, I started getting better as soon as I started taking it, it was really something else. After 4 bottles of that medicine though it was obvious that it wasn't going to completely get rid of the virus.

Dr. Rind from Washington told me that peroxide is the way to get rid of EBV so I tried a bath with a cup of H2O2 in it, it reeeeally made a big difference. At the time I was on cortisol and florinef (adrenal hormone that elevates blood pressure, a synthetic version) and immediately after the bath my blood pressure shot up. When I took the bath a lot of the EBV was killed and its adrenal supressing effect was lessened and all of a sudden I had my own adrenal hormones + the ones I was supplementing with. I had to cut back on the florinef and cortisol very quickly. I also started living again, I could go visit my friends, go for walks and I started planning for university.

I did a few more baths but I still had to take some cortisol and florinef (the EBV was still around). The next step was oral H2O2 (a few drops of H2O2 in a glass of water and drink it) this was the final step in getting rid of the EBV and completely getting me off of the hormones. I've been muscle testing bad for florinef and cortisol (unless I have a cold sometimes) ever since.

The book "Safe uses of Cortisol" has a chapter on viruses that I found very enlightening. The author explains how viruses are similar in structure to pituitary hormones, and they make the pituitary think that it has already produced enough hormones, like ACTH for example. This results in a net decrease in ACTH and a resulting net decrease in cortisol. Look at it like this: Viruses have coevolved with us for millions of years, they have a mechanism to get into our body and shut down our defenses and this is by lowering our cortisol. Optimum cortisol levels are absolutely critical for immune functioning, so this is how they are so effective and why everyone gets sick when a cold is going around. In the book, the author has case studies where he checked the cortisol levels of people with acute viruses (colds + flus) and the people who were most sick had the lowest cortisol. On administration of physiologic doses of cortisol these people generally got better and went home.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
-Colin

Always forget to sign in heh. Something else I wanted to mention is how they say H2O2 works. H2O2 is unstable and readily breaks down into H2O and O2 like this:

2H2O2 ----------> 2H2O + O2

So the net result is oxygen and water. Viruses are anerobic and when they are exposed to oxygen in any significant amount they die. With that said, I never found H2O2 to help with colds or flus.

-Colin

Heavymetal,
I know people who stopped taking antidepressants ten years ago who are still glassy eyed zombies so you can't always reverse drug effects

Well yes, a) ADs can do horrendous damage, but

b) very often, much of this damage can be healed in time with the right diet and supplements.

I belong to an internet list that is run by someone who has been helping people in this capacity for 23 years. She has been helping me. It is a slow process because I stopped my AD cold turkey, which in tiself can do a lot of damage. It's a shame there aren't more people like her around to help, ADs are now the most commonly prescribed meds in the US.

What supplements and diet are recommended for post-SSRI withdrawal symptoms??

Would like to try glandular's as well however not sure where to buy
them. Have read a little and know they need to be raised organically.
One needs to make sure the animal was ***** and healthy as well.

Has anyone else tried them and if so what was the effect along with
where did you purchase them.

Thank you

Teacup

hi teacup: there are many different sources of glandulars on the internet ,as well as many different types of glandulars ,source natural has a mult- glandular that has several types of glandulars in one formula I have used it and recommend it , it cost about $11.00-15.00 per bottle depending on which online retailer you purchase it from just remember to start with a low dose and slowly increase the dose as needed and once they have done there job you can stop them with out any problems ,unlike synthetic hormones which require that you wean off them very slowly to avoid complications