News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

just seen the new film by michael moore called sicko, paints a grim picture of the american health care system compared to other places in the world ( I think it hit the nail on the head)
It's sad what greed and corruption can do to a nation,I'm very interested to see how our international as well as domestic forum members feel about the american health care system compared to there own (please don't sugar coat it)

Be interested to know what this film was about exactly. What did it portray? Was it aimed at something inparticular. Was it on your Nations TV? Was Mercury mentioned in anyway? What was it that made you so angry about it? Was it abut the Goverment or others. Sorry from being from the UK never heard of Michael Moore r perhaps I'm just ignorant LOL
Was this a programme that would have been widely watched? Can you go into a bit more detail about what the programme was about sorry if I'm waffling got pretty bad brain fog today. I'm from the UK what do I think ********* get my drift. My doctor just prescribed me Quinine for leg cramps. Looked it up. Answer, under no circumstances should Quinine be used for leg cramps as it can cause serious Kidney damage. FDA trying to ban it. As I say thats what I think ********** Tracy

Canada's health care system is no better - sure you can get to see doctors more easily and quickly, but they prescribe the same stuff because they usually go with what the FDA is doing

Germany is probably the best

Canada's health care system is definately not better. I've used it and experienced it.
At one point, in one province (can't remember which) the waiting period for services related to childbirth was 10 months. If you need a specific test or procedure that requires a specific apparatus, you may be put on a waiting list as the country only has 5 that get transported back and forth on a first come first serve basis.

That is not to say I don't believe the industry is crooked, immoral, and actually cares about a patients overall health, but to say the canadian system is superior is madness. I will say the MO of the medical practice is different, and more in the interest of the patient rather than profit. But $ motivates efficiency....what a mess.

is the whole world changing or is it just the way im seeing things it just seems at the moment evil is taking over God I hope the bible is right ' THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH' I think I'm up for at least 10 farms which is pretty damn good cos I love animals Tracy

hi clawthrow : I am curious about the canadian health care system , if there a mistake made during a medical procedure and some dies or is injured how does the canadian or british health care system handle it ,in america the family sues the hospital or doctors involved , this is one reason why medical insurance is so expensive and why 50 million americans can't afford it .

I don't know. I posted unclear in this regard.... I had to go to an emergency room in Canada once and what I had to go through was ridiculous. No one spoke english, the few people who did kept sending me to the wrong place, by myself ( I had a friend with me but he was no help direction wise) they were not very concerned about me at all. Kept being sent to a different doctor. After a few hours of this (no exageration) I finally went to a doctor and said "I don't care what you have to do, or who you have to call, I need to see a doctor, NOW." I sat in a room and waited about 45 minutes and finally a doctor came. 4+ hours, for an emergency room visit. Now, I have read about their system as well, many specialized tests have waiting lists, for they can't afford the machinery to be had at each location, meds are cheap, but many are not even offered. I guess what I'm saying is that it is a trade off, their system has the pro of being free, but the cons of a government funded program. It isn't better, its different.

I went to an emergency room here in my own country. I had very painful stomach cramps to the point I was almost crippled. But i guess because they saw I could walk, that meant I wasn't really a priority.

Well, they gave me a form to fill out and asked me "Do you want to go home or wait for a doctor"? and I said "i'll wait" and I was told "it coudl be a while" ... no problem I thought.

Well I knew something was up when I was escorted to a cubicle with a bed in it and was told to just lie down, you'll be attended to soon. I was there all night <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I lay there and in the end I got that desperate I got up when I saw one fo the nurses walk past and I followed her and said "How long will this take? " and obviously annoyed she said "It wont' be long". Well won't be long meant "all night". I got attended to the next morning by an indian doctor (female) who started asking me if I had STDs (because of my cramps) and I said "NO I DO NOT" and she said "well some people cover up and are embarrassed to admit they've had multiple partners" and I said "Um that is not even possible trust me you don't know my lifestyle" and then she said "well I think you need to see your own doctor and she can do a check on you".

Then she left <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So basically I stayed up all night to be told to go to my own doctor <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The moral of this story is, dont waste your time going to the emergency unless you are literally dying.

I had a similar experience Bex. Crippling IBS pain. We went to the hospital at night, with my baby, who stayed asleep in her pushchair. I was left on a trolley for hours and given a bowel to vomit into. I was given medication for the pain that did absolutely nothing. Eventually I was just sent home. The doc in charge had such a smug, superior look on his face, it was clear he didn't give a toss about any of the people there, perhaps he thought they were faking or exaggerating, or just wasting his time or something.

Absolutely agree, don't go there unless you are dying. And that means obvious physical problems like you've been in a car crash.

sorry to hear of your own experience LInda. That sounds absolutely horrible. SOmetimes you feel like you're in a bad movie!!!

I will never go there again unless as I said, I am literally dying or have something that could kill me.

Isn't it great that we know the truth though Bex? They didn't have a clue about how to treat IBS. I eventually saw a consultant at the hospital and he couldn't help either. All it took was changing my diet.

Sometimes I wonder, if I had another chance to choose a career, whether I'd be willing to go to med school and then work as a naturopath. It seems like a very noble, and desperately needed, calling. Somehow I think I'd have trouble remembering everything though, with the brain fog LOL.

Hi Linda, yes and it's a shocker when you consider that they are qualified and SHOULD know, but dont. Perhaps they only look at textbook stuff and shut off to anything else.

My gut cramps were severe, yet I was left to suffer and it took 7 months for it to die down (i kid you not). I was often in tears. All that from a few garlic capsules. I now believe that the garlic supplement, potent as it was had shunted toxins into my gut because the rest of me was unable to eliminate them. In fact, eventually I developed a heat and rash on my abdomen area and as the toxins began to move lower down, mysymptoms improved (the rash also appeared lower and lower down as time went on). So there was no doubt that it was toxic related and possibly mercury. Considering DMSA helped the process I knew it was metals.

So though garlic can be a wonderful thing to take (kills candida too), it is too risky for me in supplement form. I seem fine taking it raw or cooked! weird!

But the gut issue cannot be blamed entirely on the garlic, something had to be amiss for that to even occur. It is simply not normal. I have also had similar from other things, e.g. chelation done randomly has also shunted toxins in there and caused pain/distress.

These gut problems never used to occur. Only started happening after dental work in 2004. I still dont know what exactly happened, but that is when this occured. A doc reckons it's dead pulp/gangrene in my oral cavity that is actually indirectly causing this gut thing. But again, there is no conclusive evidence for that, just contradictory test results.

Yes, I believe that being in the health industry is indeed a noble career, but so is being a teacher <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm so sorry you seem stuck Bex. You are doing everything right, you've learned so much. It just seems mystifying that things aren't improving. I hope you are still willing to consider options and try different things. Maybe mercury still really is a problem, or at least something that happened in connection with the dental work. My hunch would be to try to boost your immune system too, though without knowing what the specific problems are it is hard to know what to say.

I want to help all the people whose doctors are failing them. Can't see myself becoming one though. Even if I won the lottery and could go train, I'm not sure if I'm a doctorly type. I'm more of an artsy than a facts-and-figures sort of person.

Yeah teaching would be nice LOL. No one here wants a part-timer to teach English apparently. I've signed up for a return-to-teaching course this autumn that runs two days a week and gives you some pay at the end, though it isn't a huge amount of money, and I'm going to have to borrow from my parents up front (again). I need a job like a person crawling through the desert needs water, for my psychological well-being more than anything else, but I guess I'll just have to trust to luck, and I'll probably have to do some supply teaching for a while (joy).

That reminds me . . . I got a phone call from the thought police the other day. I had to fill out a health questionnaire for this course and thought I'd better be honest and say I had been on an antidepressant. A honey-voiced woman phoned me and asked things like what I took, whether the depression was job-related, whether I'd had depression in the past, if I was OK now, etc. I very happily told her I'm fine and that it was just a blip. Nice, isn't it, how they're prepared to stigmatise you for having had a mental illness. Making this a possible bar to employment is really going to help people get better. Well if I have to go talk to them at their office, I can quite easily smile and be happy and convince them I'm tippity-toppity I'm sure.

You get good at pretending to everyone else that you're OK when you're not, don't you LOL.

Mikey
I just watched Sicko yesterday.
You mentioned in an earlier post that you were interested to find out about international healthcare systems.
Well in Ireland for a few years now we have had serious public hospital overcrowding with patients waiting a long time to be seen,I have never heard of anyone waiting more than 12 hours,but this could have happened I don't know.12 hours though is a long time especially if your sick(12 hours in a hospital could make you sick...)
anyhow that 's been another problem, not enough staff to deal with the numbers of people coming in and a serious shortage of beds,which has left many patients sleeping on trolleys on the corridors,without any peace or privacy.can you imagine being sick and on a trolley with the continuous lighting and noise and the people walking by all the time...
I think that this problem is in the process of being sorted out,I have not heard anything about it in a few months......
Also in the news alot over the past few years have been the
outbreak of hospital "superbugs" and vomiting bugs.
And people going into hospital with 1 complaint & catching something else while in hospital.
I guess this can happen to anyone anywhere,sorry for rambling.

My personal experience of hospitals in Ireland:
visit to the Maternity hospital where my son was born,stayed 48hours.I was not impressed with my care there as a public patient at all.I was in labour for only about 6 hours,during which time there was 2 change over shifts,which meant I was attended by 3 different nurses, none of which I had met before,which was very unsettling,giving birth for the first time.There was a continuous stream of strangers coming in &out of the room,and I was not told who some of the people were.
I really felt like I was on a conveyer belt,though ,as soon as my son was born,I was whisked of to have a shower(which was in a private room,very clean there) then brought to my bed in a public ward,the beds have a dividing curtain between each one.I spent 2 nights there ,it was really noisy &not just the crying babies!It was so overcrowded and they kept bringing in more people on beds, when I arrived there were 8 mothers ,the day I left 14 mothers!!and of course their babies beside them in their cots.The beds and cots were side by side in a line.
It really felt,like I said a conveyor belt in a baby making factory.
Ireland has a really high birth rate.
The nurses & doctors ,
I think are they doing the best they can with what they have dealing with so many patients and such long hours must be rough.
(As far as giving birth in a hospital,I would not like to do that again,I would definitely consider a homebirth.)
In nine months of prenatal hospital checkups,I never saw the same nurse or consultant twice,it was always a different person!Lots of student nurses I think.
I know that as a private patient your hospital experience is a different story.You would be more likely to have a regular consultant...etc etc.Although in Ireland it is said that public & private patients receive the same care.They do not,of course there are privileges etc...
I forgot to mention the showers/bathrooms in the public ward were dirty.

Recently I had a mole removed as a public patient in a general hospital.The care I received that day was exceptional.
The doctors & nurses were kind & patient .It felt like that is the way a visit to the hospital should be.

Excuse me if I've rambled too much.
1 more thing, our minister for health is a big fat woman,probably obese, what a joke, she is representing our health care system,where among other things,they fluoridate
the public drinking water.

Someone mentioned Germany as an example of a sound healthcare system.It certainly seems to be great.
Also some of the other European countries seem to have it sussed.
They know all about the mercury in Sweden ,they don't use amalgam over there.

hi sunflower : it is very scary for someone that has no insurance in this country , I just hope that our next elected president works on this problem and fixes it

Well, being from the UK my experience is mostly with the NHS.

I think it seems to vary from Hospital to Hospital, for every bad experience I have heard of I had heard of more good experinces, even now with all the cuts in expenditure in our Health Service.

When I had my children the care was great, I had a c-section the first time and was in hospital for nearly 14 days the attention I recieved regarding the nursing - considering I had my first baby and also cos I had a c-section - was without fault. When had my second child the care I received was again very good, the only thing that I thought was different was perhaps the nurses didn't seem to have so much time with their patients and were rushing around.

My kids had e-coli nearly 10 years ago and both were admitted to hospital, my eldest needed kidney dyalisis (sp)and was when admitted to hospital critically ill the hospital staff were truly amazing, the main Dr or specialist I guess attending my son was there first thing in the mornng till late at night, the nursing staff were also amazing, my other son was in another ward, and although he wasn't so seriously ill his care was great too. The care they both recieved was excellent and I was truly amazed at the dedication from all the nursing staff and the Drs. They both made a full recovery and this is in no doubt because of the care that they had during their stay in hospital.

I have had other experiences of the NHS a family member had cancer and again his care was very good. I would again just say that the main difference I have noticed over the last 15 years or so is that the staff don't seem to get a minute and are very very busy, I think this is probably because they need more staff but because of constant cuts in funding they can't employ them.

I am not going to say that I have not heard bad or indeed horror stories about our NHS in this country cos I have, but I am just going on my own experiences.

I think perhaps half the problem regarding health problems because of Amalgam Fillings is that a lot of health care "professionals" don't recongnise that amalgams cause those helath problems - well in this country anyway.

I think we are so lucky to live in country where we have the NHS I could not begin to imagine the cost of what my family alone would have had to pay for our various different treatments etc over the years.

Just my experience I know as I said a lot of folk would no doubt disagree.

Lizbet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Can't say this is an area I'm well versed in, but my two cents...

NHS scares me. From what I've heard there is no competition in this type of system, so you've got to put up with whatever they give you versus private where the competition is fierce and vying for your dollar. Reseach is much more prevalent in countries without NHS, and although they are having a tough time without thinking a drug cures everything, they do do way more research and make having access to health care much easier. Where there seems to be an issue is getting health available to all and frankly, I don't know how this can be solved because if the government gets involved then we'll be relegated to policies and red tape and people will complain about that and how service will either probably deteriorate and/or be denied. So for now, my endorsement is for private. Maybe we can have both? Private for those who want / can pay and public for those who can't get coverage due to type of job and/or disabilities.

cuba is supposed to have a very good health care system , even being as poor as it is

I just watched this film “sicko” and I just want to ask is that actually how the American system works? Is care refused if health insurance is declined?

it depends where you go for care, but most hospitals and clinics will not treat you if you do not have any type of health insurance , (very scary for those that don't have it) I am one of the lucky ones that do

It makes me proud to be British watching that film. What an incredibly screwed up system there is over in the USA. The way it works is totally wrong. I believe there is enough money to treat every man, woman and child in developed countries. I’m talking about non-treatment of sick people and non-payment from the insurance companies. The system sucks!

Our system is very very far from being perfect. There are long waiting lists; the hospitals are old, disease is rife, overcrowding is the norm. The methods of treatments are all symptom based, which WE know is all wrong. But…..but at least our boys don’t turn away care to the sick and injured. Seriously that shocked me big style. Mr Moore painted a very bad picture of the American way.

I do think he over emphasised big time about how GREAT the British system is, it’s crap, but compared to the USA….it is paradise. It is true that it is all free and the drugs are ultra cheap, treatment is not refused, although waiting lists are long for non-life threatening things. One thing I do know is the French system is how he portrayed it. The French system is much better than the UK, but then again, France is very socialistic in there politics.

Next time i will not be so critical of our health system, the NHS. (Now I never thought I’d think that!)

Mr Moore is difficult to like, but his films are remarkable.

I believe there is enough money to treat every man,woman,child and creature on this Earth.
I also believe that there is more than enough food to feed everyone and more than enough of everything to go around.

Why are there children starving to death every day?
And other people are off buying their 200th pair of designer shoes? or some other ridiculous purchase?

I would love to take the World into my hands and balance it out.

the amerian health care system all hidges on greed and nothing else ,and many people suffer for this , how are malpractice law suites handeled in your part of the world

Mikey,
Lawsuits for malpractice are a pretty novel occurance in Ireland.I think,mostly over the last few years when our economy boomed bigtime.Before that lawsuits were something you heard more about from America,it seemed to us that Americans sued for everything!But as with alot of things, what's in the U.S. usually heads over this way some time after...

Yes people are sueing more & more for malpractice here these days.sorry I have no official facts & figures.
I just reread you're post & you asked how the lawsuits are handled,but I don't know.

Ireland has been quite a passive nation up untill now,by this I mean that people were reluctant to complain if they were wronged.People would grin & bear things,but everything is changing rapidly now,people are learning their rights,and standing up for themselves much more,I think.

In all sincereity... it might be wise to question why Michael Moore is such a flap to get people signed up for socialized medicine when so much of modern medicine is simply a prescription for chronic illness.

At almost 300 pounds I do sincerely doubt he knows very much about health at all. he probably does have major fears about the major consequences of his weight for his longterm health.

his obesity isn't my problem. sorry to sound mean. but he needs a diet and some exercise, not a doctor, just like lots of other people.

doctor visits aren't the answer. prescription medications and incompetent doctors are responsible for an awful lot of deaths. It's not a problem unique to the USA either. The idea that better access to doctors these days will solve all your problems is a fantasy.

Sos, that's an interesting point about Michael Moore.He is big, but when I was watching the film I guess that was not the focus for me.He may not be as healthy as he could be ,probably far from it, but the film is an eye opener showing examples of some of "healthcare" systems,
the punch line being the fact that there are prisoners in Guatanamo Bay (spelling?)
with state of the art medical care & facilities & honest/hard working civilians who have no health insurance in the U.S. are not given the appropiate care.
In the film there are some people who volunteered to help the search/cleanup after 9/11 disaster,these people had illnesses
ever since respiratory etc...the irony being that they had no insurance to be treated and meanwhile off in Guatanamo Bay
the suspected/accused/imprisoned guys have 1st class care.
We should give Michael Moore credit where it is due,for exposing this,and bringing it to our attention,all over the World,
regardless of whether he is healthy himself or not,he has done a great thing to get the film out into the mainstream,get people talking,& asking questions & making positive changes.

Sos: yup I totally agree with yr post.

“much of modern medicine is simply a prescription for chronic illness” – agree

“doctor visits aren't the answer. prescription medications and incompetent doctors are responsible for an awful lot of deaths. It's not a problem unique to the USA either. The idea that better access to doctors these days will solve all your problems is a fantasy.” – agree

Mr Moore obviously is just starting out his learning because no questions where asked if the drugs and surgeries themselves worked anywhere in the world. His bloated body is living proof he has no idea how to take care of himself. He did raise some valid points but he did not go far enough by a long long way. The British system will fail just as badly as the USA system because both use the same drugs, the same doctors and the same basis of treating symptoms not causes. I am living proof of the uselessness of the British system. Thank funk I discovered alternative holistic medicine.

“We should give Michael Moore credit where it is due,for exposing this,and bringing it to our attention,all over the World,
regardless of whether he is healthy himself or not,he has done a great thing to get the film out into the mainstream,get people talking,& asking questions & making positive changes.” – I agree with that too

He walks like a penguin too…..