News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Amalgams all finally all removed last week, so i started chelation for the first time today.
Round 1. DMSA 12.5mg every 4 hours including waking at night, 3 days on 4 days off.
Andy Cutlers Chelation protocol.

Wish me luck!

And finally…..for the fist time…I am going to see my Doctor! This will be the first time I saw a normal doctor for over 1 year. And what a joy that promises to be. I’m going to see if he can prescribe me DMPS if I want it. And also if he can help me understand whats happening to my adrenals and thyroids and maybe provide some more drugs.

I will go armed with test results but I am not in the slightest bit optimistic Doctor will be able to help in any way….but….i need drugs!!!!!!!!! So I gotta at least ask.

Wish me luck!

All the luck in the world - and if you get anywhere with your doctor I'll eat my hat. I only use my GP for occasional testing - I got fed up of being patronised with 'you need antidepressants' and being treated like I was crazy.

For thyroid / adrenal expertise you need to see Dr Peatfield or Dr Skinner in the UK. Or come to Brussels to see Dr Hertoghe. My serum morning cortisol was low but in the 'normal' range (16) shortly after my adrenal crash, when I was bedbound, and a weak, shaky, suicidal, hypoglycemic mess. Don't expect a doctor to understand that.

Good luck with the DMSA. Each round is different for me, but I now feel better on than off - it took me 6 months to get to that. It would be a result if you could get DMPS... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif" alt="" />

best
Nicola

Yep, good luck.

i didn't wantto be the first to say it but imgeha is right on the money with the GP.

Generally you need to find an integrative med doc to even begin a conversation about heavy metals.

GP's are the ones that inject them into your body and call it preventive medicine.

May the force be with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yoda.gif" alt="" />

All the best SS! The only doc that would do that was my own doctor who was into natural therapies as well. Most are not. BUt if your doc is open minded and listens, you maybe surprised. Then again this is a drug we're talking about so he/she will probably want and require proof you are toxic....how does one get that when mercury on testing is so often misleading. Doctors dont' seem to understand the way to interpret the results either. Andy talks about that.

So glad to hear you're already beginning chelation. Some people can notice a difference very quickly in the programme. Others take a longer time. I hope that you will be one of the ones that get through this more speedily.

I think there is a way of getting DMPS (Oral) from compounding pharmacies. I may just have a few links for that. Let me know if you're interested.

Thank you all, round 1 started….. cool <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/highfive.gif" alt="" /> It is good to start chelating after all the reading I’ve done.
And today was ok, this evening I felt pretty good too. I have had a racing heart at times and some odd sensations in my heart & chest area, but overall positive. I do feel more…..alert at times, but it is well early days yet so best not think too much if this is working or not. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crossfingers.gif" alt="" /> my alarm is set for 2am.

Yeah, I thought it was about time I saw my local doctor, see what he had to say for himself about me.
I had to run thorugh all the troubles I had been through this year but….he didn’t really listen to what I was saying. All he wanted to do was run some blood tests, “then we can really see what’s wrong. If anything.” I did tell him that I had already got blood tests, right here with me now, but he didn’t what to see them. Strange eh?
I was pleasantly surprised that he actually wanted to run some tests and I take that as a big plus for him. But I now how they do the tests & I know how the results will come back in the “normal ranges” so there will not be anything to treat. Waste of my time really. He only wanted to treat the lab results. Strange how he didn’t want to see my blood work.

He didn’t know anything about mercury problems or detoxing it, I think he said he heard about it “vaguely in a round about way” which means he doesn’t know .

I told him that’s fine because I have an excellent detox protocol from Dr. Cutler and I just might need some of the things recommended in the book. He looked over the top of his glasses and gave a deadpan doctors stare and said “lets get the tests done first, then we will see if there’s anything to treat!”

I managed to force my hair tests results in front of him, he looked at them for 10 minutes and then, sorry typo….seconds….he looked at them for 10 seconds gave them back and said ……I quote “this is all mumbo-jumbo to me.” I kid u not! 10 seconds…..what a cock! Mumbo-jumbo…..LOL

He didn’t believe anything could be wrong with my thyroids and adrenals are “rarely ever needed to be treated.” He didn’t what to see my temp graphs either. Which was disappointing because thats what i really wanted help on.

Only positive out of that was the blood tests, which I find pretty interesting seeing the results. I have zero hope he will be able to help me any in the slightest. I will get his tests done. I will go back and I bet he tells him I’m fine.

Waste of time really, I been learning and helping myself for about 1 year now and looks like it will have to continue that way. It always was down to me anyway, I always knew that, but I thought if I asked for some help I might get some. Sadly not.

Don't give up hope.You could be lucky & find another doctor who understands all of this,or at least more than usual.
I have recently found a local doctor/GP who is aware of mercury/other metal poisoning, I have an appointment next week.

Have you asked any of the other practioners that you see if they know of any doctors who are aware of the mercury?
This is how I found this guy.They usually all know each other.

SS:

Good luck on the chelation journey! Your doc sounds like the one I went to for 20 years before switching. To me, it is bizzare - a lot of them just don't seem to have a clue about mercury! And yes, it the test is in nomal range at all - forget it - you could never have a problem there. But try to get him to prescribe anything helpful he can. If he won't - switch if you can. One of the hardest things for me to do - especially being mercury toxic, but you gotta do it - leave any doctor behind that is not adding value to your health - ASAP. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shiftyeyes.gif" alt="" />

Later,

TW

yeah, no joy.

its ok. i'm happy with the cutler protocol. i've read the book to death. i find the Yahoo frequent-dose-chelation group absolutely excellent for technical support (and sub-zero for moral support, but ...thats what this forums for anyway.)

Imgaha: Dr Peatfield or Dr Skinner in the UK, thanks I will google them.

Bex: yes please…link for DMPS

Good luck on the DMSA - I tried about 4 times now and after a couple weeks get so dizzy and weak have to quit. My neck gets so tight....
Did a hair test and good minerals are very very low and mercury, copper, aluminum high

I would have to say try the zeolite first - once you get through the zeolite then can dig deeper for mercury
Found some new stuff - looks to be the best www.resultsrna.com

Start slowly, and give it 6 months to 18 months - it takes a long time to get this mercury crap out of your system gently without a crisis

The krill oil has helped me a lot - start 2 caps and 3 months 4 caps
http://www.mercola.com/products/krill_oil.htm

And the VSL is great - www.vsl3.com doing 1 pack after breakfast for 2 months and then 2 packs a day 2 months and then 1 pack for another year.
Take a liver remedy - the one at the bottom is excellent - 15 drops 2 times a day to start - double in 3 months
http://www.goodhealthvitamins.ca/Prairie-Doctor-Brand-C1896.aspx

Flax fiber - www.renewlife.com


The most important thing is to listen to your body - take what you can handle. If too much, back it off. Only you can decide what and how much to take. Not even the best naturalpath can figure this out.....


Do a hair test after 12 months and see whats going on - but dont know how good they are - be sure to use a shower filter

Sorry sunshine, I used to have this list but cannot find it. I do recall getting it from the frequent dose chelation group. maybe they still have it there? You could ask them where you can get DMPS from (compounding pharmacies).

It irritates me because I even emailed a guy from one of those pharmacies and he said they can do it without prescription! I no longer have the email or the info.

Alot of this happened when my computer was redone. Not everything was saved unfortunately.

Oh and your experience with the doc is no surprise. Tha'ts pretty much the typical response I'd expect. I've gone it alone for years. They just really do not know enough to help people like us.

Quote
"its ok. i'm happy with the cutler protocol. i've read the book to death. i find the Yahoo frequent-dose-chelation group absolutely excellent for technical support (and sub-zero for moral support, but ...thats what this forums for anyway.)" [/quote]

I found the same thing on the frequent dose group! Serious, efficient, informative, but not quite what I find here. It is freer here, more freedom in bringing many other things into the chat, and I feel more support. No disrespect to frequent dose, or other forums, they are all designed to provide info to get people back to health.

Hey Sunshine
So cool you can get the ball rolling finally. I wish you all the best with it and hope you tolerate it very well.
Yeah the doctor thing LOL . I been there too, one checked me for pancreatic cancer because my mom died with it. I went in because I thought I might have a hiatal hernia, and because of the type of work I do, was worried I could really do some damage. I had just gotten over h-pylori and was probably experiencing acid reflux. He spent the whole sum of 10 minutes with me and decided I had cancer. When I went in I took all of my natural supplements and when he looked at them I knew he thought I was a crazy nut.
Well no cancer....no nothing, everything was fine. Ultra sound was good and all blood work came back really well. Everything was in the normal range. Yep that's what I thought.
Also went to gynecoligist for some female problems....umm nothing there either. Oh if I needed something for menopause they could prescribe a little something for me. Yeah sure like I'm gona take that bullet too!!!
Went to a rheumatologist and this one diagnosed me with Fibromyalgia and IBS. Funny huh?
We all the know the diseases that can stem from mercury poison. What a laugh eh?
I wish you luck in finding a doc that can help you with all of this and good luck for sure on the chelation.
Rachel

Yahoo frequent dose chelation. I like the group very much. So much knowledge there. I think yr last comment is a little strong “Perhaps it reflects the owner/moderator, he runs the ship afterall.” – Those people seem to have dedicated much of there time(lives) to supporting complete strangers in getting well. They don’t have time for the empathy that we find helpful here on herballure. That doesn’t mean they don’t have it, it means they don’t have time for it because they so busy on the technical side of mercury problems. They answer a lot of questions and very quickly too. Stenphanie spent a lot of time with my hair test, I had multiple questions, so I only have the utmost respect for them all.
No, l like that group very much, and I have benefited from it greatly but O/T stuff they don’t like, I’m cool with that.

Sunshine, on reflection my comments were out of line. You are correct and I am going to edit that because it was most unfair. For sure, sometimes I really need to check myself before I speak (type).

I have just edited it. And in all honestly, without that group, I would never have learned all that I did! So absolutely, those people have dedicated so much of their time and information to others.

I think I have been on a few forums that have been very tightly run and never found quite the comradeship as I found on here. perhaps I'm a little spoilt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi Kako

Thanks for your post, full of cool links.

DMSA: I’m going the try the cutler protocol; if it doesn’t work then I will find a plan B. I have read a lot and it makes the most sense to me.

Just on cautionary note about Dr Mercola. On my travels I quickly came across his articles and work and I must say it disagreed with what I have learned. I have come across so many people saying chorella screwed them up, cilantro screwed them up. I remember reading his mercury detox and his recommendations just did not stack up with the mass of problems people reported in doing some of the things he recommends. So for me, I avoid him.
But I only just started chelating so it’s all new to me.

Ahhh ha…I just found his detox protocol…..

http://www.mercola.com/article/mercury/index.htm

“Caution: About 30% of people can't tolerate chlorella. This may be due to optimized function of the enzyme cellulase. If you are unable to tolerate this it would be wise to consider adding an enzyme with cellulase in it to help digest the chlorella.”

-I’m sorry but that’s just bullshit….he recommends chlorella then says 30pct of people can’t tolerate it. Personally I think that’s wrong to recommend something that 30pct of people can’t handle.

He recommends ……Cilantro
He recommends…….Garlic

“10. Start Monthly DMPS Injections, Suppositories or Transdermal
You should not have DMPS if you still have amalgam fillings. If they have been removed the injections can be started on a monthly basis. Collection of the urine is then down to analyze how much mercury is being excreted. One must urinate completely prior to the injection.
I perform the analysis at 90 minutes as that is most convenient, but others do four or 24 hour collections. The DMPS injections are generally given about six times or until the level drops into single digits or you are feeling better. “

Ok….i’m angry now…..it is not even remotely funny….what a funking idiot this man is. He is recommending everything that some people can’t handle. Evereything that hurts. His words go against everything Cutler talks about. I believe Cutler would call this man a Witchdoctor.

Anyway………chill……………

I will just have to see if this low regular dosing DMSA works for me. Time will tell.

When u tried DMSA how did u take it? Like I am? Every 4 hours around the clock, even waking at night? 3 days on 4 days off?

Hi Skieslimit, yes, what a merry-go-round these bloody doctors put us through. Well we should consider ourselves lucky to have broken free from them, broken free from their way of thinking. Treating the symptoms and not even looking for the causes. I think most people on here now realise its down to themselves…..but my mind boggles…still….how could western medicine get it so wrong…..

Anyway, it is time to move on, move away from their way of doing things because it obviously is not working. If it was working then it would not be possible for me and my health to be so utterly screwed up.

Good Eveving Bex. Yes we are spoilt here with the support we give each other. It has been so much better since Russ changed and got rid of the Anon’s. I am still deeply suspicions of all that goings on. That was …………….. strange…..very Lord of the Flies……

Hi Sunshine,

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Mercola's protocol. He collaborated with someone else on it, can't remember who it was, but I agree with you, Cutler's protocol seems much more safe and sound.

Mercola gets it wrong sometimes. But actually, I find his site and his newsletter to be informative and helpful much of the time. When you know a bit about alt med, as we both do, we can start to know BS when we see it; and he does come out with it occasionally, but not that often. It's often also helpful to read readers' comments on the articles. I'm quite a fan in fact <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good morning Lindalou. Yes…I think I read his detox protocol just when I was in the middle of my painful cysteine experience, it was a very angry time and I took an instant dislike to anything that hurts.

Everyone has some good words of wisdom and it’s up to us individually to sort the wheat from the chaff.

ummmm...i seem to be a bit punchy this morning? wonder why that is?

lol Lord of the Flies. Yes, I think Russ definitely did the right thing.

Re Mercola? I'm with you and Linda on this. I take what he says, the flesh and simply spit out the bones. I think he has some fantastic health advice, but his chelation advice seems a bit risky, but is popular amongst the doctors doing mercury chelation. My one for instance, she does similar. Large doses of chlorella at night, followed by the DMPS, and then later, garlic capsules and DMSA (250 mg, one day on, one day off).

All of those things proved pretty nightmarish for me and just caused an explosion of insane symptoms, a lot of suffering. I thought at one stage that this was the only way to remove mercury, by going almost insane.

Well, not disputing a healing crisis, which can in the end yield incredible improvements after much pain to achieve it, but I always wondered "does it have to be quite this bad"? And of course, that's where andy's came into the picture and when I realised that this "healing crisis" could indeed be kept a little more controlled.

The healing symptoms I got from his were not the same insanity, but rather - tired, achy, grotty feeling, sometimes crying or just a little tearful. However, I could have lessened that by using a smaller dose for a shorter period of time. I was doing 50 mg, every 4 hours for an entire week! Which is what his book suggested to do.

In retrospect, less and for less often is an easier way to begin. The symptoms would often start a day or so into the programme and increase gradually as each day wore on till I knew I had to stop and break.

The insane symptoms didn't occur, UNLESS, I forgot a dose and took a much later one, causing redistribution and the typical awful symptoms related to it. Taking chances with chelation maybe ok for those who are stronger, but I dont think it is worth it.

For me, the best diet advice is from Dr Weston Price and best chelation advice Andrew cutler. (just my personal opinion).

Wise words Bex. Wise words, which just reinforces my feelings about protocols that hurt too much like mercola obviously did/does. I have not read any of his other articles so I don’t know about them.

I have not yet read the Weston price book, but I keep seeing references to it and I regularly enjoy the grub for sally fallon’s book “Nourishing Traditions” which is based on his work.

It is a bit of a tomb stone that book, so am waiting for a free patch before I wade into that it.

“The insane symptoms didn't occur, UNLESS, I forgot a dose and took a much later one, causing redistribution and the typical awful symptoms related to it. Taking chances with chelation maybe ok for those who are stronger, but I dont think it is worth it.” – its stuff like this that I need to see that will hopefully keep me on the straight and narrow while I’m chelating.

This is a risky business, and so very individual.

This was supposed to be my third day's rest from chelation but I woke up this morning feeling like I wanted to die. I cried all morning and couldn't focus on anything. Decided to start on the DMSA/ALA again, and now ( a few hours later) I'm starting to feel on an even keel again. I don't know what happened to me but it could have been redistribution. Definitely this protocol works for me. Back when I first started chelating, I wanted to keep it "natural." I ate coriander and garlic and got a liquid detox agent called HMD which has various coriander and chlorella elements in it. All it did for me was make me feel spacey. The DMSA and ALA have been the right combo for me. Thanks to Bex for telling me about these, and I'm also thankful for Algin. Hopefully somewhere along the road I'll stop feeling worse and actually start going in the opposite direction.

BTW I'll ask again -- does anyone know how to add a picture to a post? I can't work it out.

Hi Linda <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/byebye.gif" alt="" />

we have all done this - gone back on round very quickly after coming off, and wonder why you can't chelate continuously because you feel so much better on round than off. Obviously mercury IS a problem for you, and you have done the right thing in getting your amalgams out. Now you've just got to get the mercury out of your body.

Also sounds like you might be hitting the organ dump stage, which is when I felt significantly worse for some months and chelation was the only thing that made me feel better. I know my adrenals take a hit when I come off round from the redistribution - could this be an issue for you?

Keep going, just make sure you take your minerals ...

Nicola

Unfortunately Sunshine, my wise words were only after doing so many stupid things that I finally "had" to find some other way. I'm one of those people that never learn or wise up, until I get hurt enough times. Even with advice given, I'm prone to taking risks and doing it myself to find out later (sader but wiser).... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sadblownose.gif" alt="" /> At least you are doing research before hand, I did anything and everything that came my way without ever really going into it. Pain is a great motivator and teacher <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, the Weston Price way of eating has proved the most suitable for me. I looked him up on the net after hearing about him on a candida forum and was very impressed. I'd go check him out on here. This guy has REALLY researched and studied the healthiest cultures all around the world and what they all eat. And put it altogether and in all honesty, it was basically natural foods, natural fats, mostly in their natural state. Very logical. Due to following his diet, I found my body began to absorb more nutrients and I filled out more. Before that? I had become very very slender. Not anorexic, but not a healthy weight by any means. I did not gain an appetite and my skin was worse than it is now. I also did not seem to have a flow of saliva as much. His diet with the fats included, seemed to enable me to fill out physically to a more normal weight, more saliva flow, and I assume better bile flow, better skin etc.

A bit like being overweight, both to me are signs of malnutrition/imbalance. I've been both in my life and know how it feels to be both chubby or too skinny. Though the overweight problem was improved by candida diet, it was never solved until amalgam removal.

My weight loss was just through too much sickness, virus, dental work etc and candida again. So, this diet helped me gain back appetite, absorb nutrients again and then gained some healthy weight.

Takes time though.

Hi Linda,. When you stop a round of chelation, apparently you can be hit by symptoms even worse. The body continues to do its thing, even after you've stopped the chelation. Detoxing is still going on, but the re-absorption of mercury as well, until the next round.

That is definitely redistribution symptoms and they are not avoidable. andy speaks of this too and it's one of those things. He advises breaks because of the need to catch up on sleep, and the body simply needing a break from the continual stuff going into the system. Ideally you would never stop chelating, but one cannot really do that, unless they are taking DMPS orally. And that is only because it can be taken every 6-8 hours. So it can be kept going.

For me, I had worsening during the round sometimes and other times improvement during the round and worsening after I stopped it. I never knew what I would get, but there is no real prediction as to what the mercury is doing and the way it's moving and the reabsorption of it. Some is removed, the rest gets absorbed again. But in the meantime I guess it would be free floating once you stop chelating and the symptoms would feel much worse with it still circulating around your body with no more chelating agents to grip onto it.

This really makes me feel that it must be mercury in you, because how else would these effects happen? It just confirms it.

Linda, the pictures? I don't know how to post them on here either. I have tried and I'm STUMPED. The only thing I can post are those instant cartoony emoticon things below here that you just click on. But as for posting proper pics? I have no idea.

Why would you want to try DMSA if you have not first tried zeolite?

If you cant do zeolite, you cant do DMSA

Why not try the natural approach first, to get you stronger, and then try dmsa or dmps to dig deep. Definately dont try plain cilantro
Garlic, pectin, algin may do something, but not that much

If not sure if it removes mercury, do a urine test, you will see it does - ANAMOL LABS 1 888 254 4840

Take a liver formula with it - start slow
Take some fiber
Take a probiotic - www.vsl3.com
Iodine in dulse or kelp for thyroid
GABA - if anxiety - www.elixirs.com


This is 5 years of my detox hell speaking right now

Hi Kako, wish I had tried that in my mercury toxic days. Tried just about everything else, so I'm with you on the "five years of detox hell" train.

DMSA I could not tolerate, until I took it in the frequent dosage way, which enabled the mercury to be removed in a manner that was not all over the place.

However, though I am not struggling with the mercury issues at the moment (not that I'm aware of, can't get any reactions anymore from chelators, worse or better), I'm still interested in this stuff you mention.

How much is this stuff? and do you get a lot for your money? E.g. a bit like NDF, which is expensive but for some a little goes a long way. Though NDF is not for everybody, it contains chlorella/cilantro. Some do great though.

I found that DMSA was better because it was stronger in it's grip on mercury and went after it and chelated it. Other stuff seemed only to mobilise the mercury that was already readily available. DMSA could also help control some symptoms.

Again, still interested to hear more on the zeolite and like the sound of taking a liver formula as well (really important). That's another thing that is often missed is support for the liver and the gut (and kidneys). Homeopathic stuff can help, as does diet, probiotics etc.

What effects have you had on this programme? And what's your story? hope you don't mind me asking. No worries if it's too extensive to go into. But interested in what zeolite did for you.

Don't expect a doctor to help you. Just try to get a RX for DPMPS from him/her. You could lie to him/her and tell him you broke a thermometer in your flat, did not clean it up properly and lived there for a while. Tell him/her you are fine but very health conscious and as a preventive measure you want to detox yourself now. Maybe he/she will believe you. If you tell them you are really sick from mercury poisoning they will think you are a psychiatric case....

there are also a few MD's that are into alternative medicine and believe in heavy metal poisoning and detox. I am sure some of them would prescribe DMPS for you.

The www.resultsrna.com goes a long way - 2 months for $40 and then $40 a month. This will get rid of the easier metals, in blood, organs.

Then can do the DMSA every 4 hours routine, once your body is stronger.

I would totally work on gut for the forst 3 months, or 6 - www.vsl3.com - get some absorption of your minerals, and vitamin vb's. You will have more energy to tackle metals with the heavier chelators. krill oil 2000mgs a day for inflammation worked great, and vitamin c 2X a day

Thats about it, not really that hard -- its all about finding the right dose for your body, everyone is different... and keep adjusting to your need

Thanks Nicola and Bex, it does seem like the DMSA is really helping me. Can't think of a very good explanation for that apart from mercury problems. I was OK this morning, didn't wake up feeling awful. Maybe I'll keep it to two days between rounds for now.

SAD is an issue as well, but that's possibly because mercury is interfering with hormones that regulate things like my body clock, production of melatonin, etc. Without the extra help from summer sunlight, they're going haywire. I hope I can chelate fast enough to mitigate the effects because it's a long time until April, which is usually when the SAD starts to clear a bit.

This is such a roller-coaster.

Thanks for the info Kako. I'm more interested in the colloidal silver personally due to the infection side of things, but the zeolite looks very interesting too. Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy any products like this, but it's given me an idea for the future re the silver...

Whatever it is I have, makes no real sense to anybody. Infection and chronic illness from this infection and obviously it might be helpful to me to get something like colloidal silver to help with that maybe at some point....I just have a bit of cynism towards most products because frankly, most have not done a thing to help me with this stubborn ongoing bacterial/viral infection....

Linda, it really is a roller coaster ride as you said. And the crying was something that I had nearly everyday with mercury and the depression from it too. You become really suseptible to it and like you with the lack of sunshine and corresponding sadness, I think if I remember I was affected by similar things too and seemed to have no control over it. But quite honestly though I may have struggled for relief to fix surface stuff, I knew I had to chelate to fix the underlying condition because nothing would really ever go away until that happened. why does it take SO long to chelate mercury? I could only gather that it's stored deeply in layers, and little by little as each layer of mercury is chelated, more of the deeper stores download to the surface one to fill what had just been clearer?

I say that because that's how it felt for me. NO sooner had I had an explosion of horrible symptoms and crying, I would suddenly feel this temporary relief, as though something had been cleared, but not long I would feel it seeping back again and it was just like more had come to take its place from deeper storage. It was like fighting my way to the surface of an ocean and just reaching the top with my head out, and suddenly being pulled back under.

This ongoing pattern just about destroyed my morale, because I felt that it would NEVER end. But Linda, it did end. My body had held that storage in for so many years, that I hadn't noticed how much of it was there until the last amalgams were gone and my body attempted then to dump it bit by bit with the aid of chelation.

Linda, hang in there as you have been and do not give up on chipping away at this volatile poison that your body is reacting to and wanting to expel from you and it cannot do it fast or in a short space of time. It is a slow and often painful process. But with the aid of this chelation protocol, hopefully you'll get it out of you quicker and more effectively and perhaps with less pain than otherwise.

Hi Kako. Phew! where to start? I have tried many many health regaining activities, supplements, herbs, excerises and much body cleansing. I have been hurt by a few, cysteine hurt badly, amalgam removal without protection hurt very badly, amalgam removal with protect hurt badly, all sulphur foods and products containing them have hurt me badly, I could go on, the list is quite long. Figuring each out took a massive about of time and effort and pain. This is why I read so much, As Bex says “Pain is a great motivator and teacher” – all this pain forces me to research everything as much as it is possible for me to understand. I have zero medical, chemical background and to understand stuff I have to read and re-read.

My reading led me to Cutlers protocol which makes good sense to my mind. I am giving it a try, if doesn’t work I will try something else. But if there is one thing I have learned its that mercury is bloody difficult and doing the wrong thing hurts and it hurts real funking bad. My biggest mistake was amalgam removal without protection. Why did that happen? because I was told this would cure everything, the answer to my problems, the underlying root cause. Which is obviously correct, but the advice I received was wrong. It was wrong because I was not advised that if I whipped them out with a normal dentist that this would completely screw me up.

Cilantro hurt. Garlic hurt. I have been taking algin in the form of “GAVISCON” for over 5 years and look where that got me. Nowhere. Liver formulas I have tried. Liver cleanses too. kidney cleanses too. bowel cleanses. fiber too. probiotic had limited results for me so I don’t take it anymore. I am just starting learning adrenals and thyroids…… this is next on the list.
GABA. I don’t suffer anxiety or depression so no need for this.
Zeolite. Don’t know about that….yet.

This is also 10 years of declining health hell speaking right now. Apologies if it comes across aggressively, it is not meant to be. It’s just this is why I’m going with Cutler frequent low dose DMSA protocol.

What a lovely post Bex. Thanks very much. Your ideas seem to be spot on so I wouldn't be surprised if you were right about how you describe mercury being eliminated. It's really nice to have so much support here. If it weren't for you I might not have started on the DMSA protocol, and I'd probably be very sick by now.

I had my 4 amalgams in for 3 years. It isn't much mercury, and it isn't a long period of time. Maybe I'm just one of those people who is extra sensitive. I thought, though, that because of these factors, chelation shouldn't take long either. It's obviously important to remember that I would have had a significant re-exposure when I got the amalgams out without protection.

Like you say, all I can do is keep chipping away. I hope I'll see some positive signs that I'm making progress at some point. It is really weird how my symptoms fluctuate daily, and sometimes several times a day. I'll have an hour or so when I suddenly feel happy for no reason. I'll have a crying spell where I feel like everything is pointless. Sometimes I'm slightly dizzy. Sometimes I have an appetite, sometimes I don't like the thought of food. It's bizarre. My symptoms didn't used to fluctuate like this, so perhaps it's another sign that the chelation really is doing something.

Thanks again for the encouragement Bex. It can be hard to dig up the courage and patience for this after 3 years already. My relationship with my husband is almost non-existent and I fear I will end up losing him; but I can't force myself to be well, and hopefully I'm doing everything I need to do now to get there.

Hi LIndaLou

yup, i'm rollercoaster riding too at the moment. yesterday morning i felt fantatsic. really GREAT! then in the afternoon a spent 4 hours looking at the wall like a zombie, brain fogged out my tiny mind <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sadblownose.gif" alt="" />

Oh dear. Well . . . at least you had some time feeling great. That's a bonus isn't it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome aboard for thrills, spills and adventure galore.

You're welcome Linda <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm just very sorry that there is no clear answers, other than hoping this is "it". I was actually thinking about your husband and wondering how things were on the home front, knowing what this illness (or similar) can do in that area.

What this illness has done to my life, let alone my personal relationships is pretty catastrophic and I just had to constantly remind myself that this is NOT me, NOT my fault and I could not afford to put that on myself as well, other than simply concentrate on keeping myself going from one day to the next. Whether people stuck with me, or left? I could not take that on as well. I hope/pray that your husband will hang in there with you, but if that proves not the case, please never go on the self blame cycle. This toxicity or ones similar to it are pretty notorius for this (even candida). Basically they are a terrible strain to not just us, but those living alongside it.

Just as you said, you cannot force yourself to be well and this simply has nothing to do with you as a person, as I cannot help what I have either. My father only stuck around because....well he's Dad I suppose.

I found that in some ways I had to be quite selfish and think well if you don't want to stay around me? or stick by me? If this is too mentally difficult or emotionally awful for you? Im sorry, but so be it, I too would like to leave and walk away from this, but I'm stuck with this in my body and I have to focus on trying to get well.

So just keep on doing whatever you feel might help improve your health and take care of you as much as you can. No guilt! I know it's hard, I would feel guilty constanty but I knew "intellectually" that it was not my fault and I almost had to be my own best friend.

Like you, my symptoms fluctuated daily and during the day as well. My father once said "I go out and leave you in this state and come home to this state everyday, I feel like I'm living in a psycho ward and at times I feel I cannot take much more". So, yeah it is a nasty illness in more ways than one.

Sunshine, your comments brought it right back. The brain fog and staring at the wall? I remember this very clearly and often it would occur during the DMSA chelating. Often I couldn't really think much at all. Major major brain fog.

It would come and go like yours.

LindaLou, I'm also a sufferer of small amounts of mercury. However, if you can't tolerate ALA, and e.g. get spaced out when taking it, you still have a problem. Your symptoms after removal was those of candida, and similar of what I had. However, you don't get rid of candida in half a year with those initial symptoms, it takes a longer time. So you still likely have candida. Continue to chelate with ALA until you dont react to it. Use low doses if you can't tolerate it well. In the end you cant consider yourself cured until you can tolerate ALA, because all healthy people can take 100 mg ALA without noticing anything special.

Erm . . . thanks, but I'm doing fine with ALA. It actually cleared my brain fog quickly when I started with it. I'm up to 50mg now and will probably keep it there because I don't see any necessity to take it higher. I always get fogged when SAD comes on.

I've read the symptoms of candida too, and not many of them match with the symptoms I've had. If I had candida, then logically I should have felt something happening as soon as I started the Paleolithic Diet a year and a half ago. I never had any die-off symptoms at all. Whatever ails me, I honestly don't think candida is part of it.

Paleo would be considered a candida diet anyway, and it's a good healing regime for all kinds of things.

Just a thought, but the brain fog doesn't seem to change whether I'm chelating or not at the moment. Fortunately it's not too bad. I've had spells in the past when I was so absent-minded I was doing dangerous things. Right now it's just like I'm a little tipsy sometimes, but I think that might be mercury doing things in my body and also the SAD.

At any rate, I'll be chelating for the foreseeable future. Thanks for the ideas, always welcome.

Thanks for sharing this Bex. It must be difficult when people are saying those things to you. My husband Chris used to say things like that to me, the first couple of years of the depression. We had a lot of painful conversations and I think we see more eye to eye now. For my part I try not to talk too much about my symptoms and I try to conceal it when they are troublesome. Dramatics only make things worse for everybody. For his part, he has eased off and seems to be biding his time. I think he's pretty deeply committed but everyone has their limits. That's partly why it was a big "oh no not again" when the SAD started coming on this autumn. I'd been promising that with my daughter going to school and my course starting, the depression should start to lift.

I know I'm talking to someone who has suffered a long time and has come to terms with it. I think you are a very strong person Bex. You have sorted out your life and your relationships in very practical ways and as you say, you do not blame yourself for troubles that are not your fault. I'm learning about these things too. I'm learning not to cling too tightly to anything because that only creates fear when I think I might lose it. My daughter might be the one exception to that. I've just got to do what I think is best, and soldier on come what may.

It's a shame we can't all meet up. We'd have an interesting get-together wouldn't we LOL, everyone from this forum. I'm sorry you are across the world and having to deal with this without a lot of support. At least we can all talk here.

Thanks again. And by the way, I've been feeling better today. Maybe it's the gardening I did. I don't do a lot, but I always feel better for it. Something about helping plants to live and grow. They are full of chi and I think I must take it in when I work with them, even though I'm the last person you could describe as having a green thumb.

The low dose DMSA might work for you if your body is able to remineralise. Mine, I could not and got weaker and weaker.... glycemic

I think starting with probiotic is great - but it has to be strong enough and has be at least 6 months. Once your inflammation is down and immune system stronger, then detoxing wont hurt as much www.vsl3.com 1 pack day 2 months / 2 packs 2 months / 1 pack 2-8 months

http://www.nutratose.biz/?OVRAW=gly...ADID=471267512&OVKWID=2001325512

sea salt
krill oil

Hi Linda, ohhhhh yeah, the amount of pain and horrible outbursts, I mean it's a miracle that I didn't physically attack my own poor father and many times I threatened him physically. Once with a cup of boiling hot tea if he didnt shut up. THis is NOT the kind of behaviour that comes naturally to me and I felt frightened by it. Many times he threatened to leave me to it, but somehow he remained.

He's done a lot for me in the respect of getting food, helping with washing, dishes etc and being another person in my life and sharing rent. But he is not very good on the personal pain sharing lol. And often I would lose it with him because I felt like he wasn't interested or cared. In the end, after many years, I learned it was better to go to my room, shut my door and go it alone in that area, or phone Mum.

As for relationships? not even possible. What I have is so unpredictable, that it kills any possibility in that area dead quickly. I just cannot get on my feet enough or well enough to be "me". I know you know how that feels. Starting one, let alone sustaining one would be miraculous lol.

So I am pretty astounded you have made it this far and have a child. That is admirable. I never had to deal with that side of it. EAsier when it's just your parents, NOT when it's a partner!

It broke a relationship a few years ago when the virus hit. I had just started healing from the mercury, and got into a relationship and wham this happened and screwed me up so bad mentally/physically, it basically finished it and I've been alone since.

I could be doing much better than I am, but I guess I could be doing worse too. I don't hold my breath though, it's day by day. I don't know if I'm a strong person, but I think I've had no choice. You're kind of forced into handling stuff that is beyond your capabilities.

Yeah it is a shame we all can't meet up! But how many of us would leave the house <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> lol. But yeah it is good that we can talk freely here, thanks to Russ. I could not do this on other forums the way I can here.

Glad you're feeling a little better, wish it would continue like that. Your husband may have his limits, as we all do, but only time will tell. Sometimes people do leave, but sometimes they come back too. I know of a man that left his family (he was the one who was ill) and went away and gained his health back through a lot of effort and came back to his family. HE was lucky his wife was waiting for him!

But this is how serious these conditions are and how much of an impact they have on personal relationships. Very sad. E.g. a doctor I know of had a wife who had candida and it actually caused their divorce. He laughed and said she was treated for it and became once again the woman he had married and they 'got back together again.

These things happen. Awful that a sickness can have such an impact eh? A bit different if it's just the bottom half being affected, but the brain is another story.

Hi Kako <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/highfive.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for the links, very interesting. My digestion is pretty good at the moment, not perfect, but a zillion times better than it was. I am no longer in declining health, I am in ascending health! I did try probiotics, various, but the best method I found was a diet that was mostly raw. Not totally raw, but 50-75pct raw at each meal. If I do that, that seems to keep me ship-shape.

I see u keep mentioning sea salt. Have u tried Himalayan rock salt? Now that is the business.

Re Cutler protocol. I will post what happened to me on my first 3 day round of low dosage DMSA. I like keep a note of what’s happening and may as well be here with all my toxic mates
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/skullandbones.gif" alt="" />

This sounds very hard Bex. I don't think that handling it has been "beyong your capabilities" from the sound of it. You are not dosed up on prescription meds, going in and out of the hospital, or in a psychiatric institution. Whatever may be happening with you, you are handling it better than most people would, and you're keeping everything ticking over.

Haven't heard from you much here recently -- how are you doing?

Hi Linda, I think many of the stuff I've gone through has definitely been beyond me, but I was lucky to have someone who pretty much put up with it and would bring meals into me. I was a candidate for a mental hospital, but just wasn't taken in. Spent more time in my room and bed languishing than much else. I wonder what would have occured had I been taken in.....makes me think I could have ended up in a worst state and permanently in care or on medication.

Taking stock of my diet was probably the only thing that took "some" of the load off and I could function a little more normally (if you can call it normal).

I haven't been too good recently. I went to a dentist to get four of my existing white composites redone in cerec porcelain. Well, normally after ANY visit to a dentist (even just going inside a dental office) I get a dreadful backlash of symptoms from the mercury vapor in the office. And this time around i thought I had gotten home free because I didn't notice any real problems.

Unfortunately it did indeed happen and might explain why I have been exhausted with itching in the face (usual reaction to vapor) and unable to bounce back as much, worse mental symptoms and the list goes on.

So yeah, one dental office visit for me is pretty devastating and long term. Just goes to show how stuffed my immune system is and how sensitive to mercury I really am. ON top of that, you can count the local anaesthesia as well, which is also very toxic to the body. My body tends to hold toxins in, rather than eliminate them, so I remain sick for a LONG time after an exposure.

I'm still sticking to the diet, but am still experiencing symptoms. I am finding that even cheese is a problem for me, so that is something I'm struggling not to eat! But all in all I believe it was the last dental visit exposure that I'm dealing with on top of the usual.

Pretty sad, when you consider that one dental visit just for a check up and clean would do the same!

I hope you are doing ok Linda! I hope over time all these symptoms will become something of the past and something you can shut the book on. Mercury is so nasty that it just defies belief that the stuff is used in anything!

I completely understand what you are saying about visiting the dentist Bex. My six-monthly checkup for myself and my daughter is coming up and I'm tempted to cancel; now seems like a really bad time to go there. You never know, the dentist might have been drilling amalgams in the previous patient in the room and there could be toxic levels of vapour around. It would be interesting to measure the levels with some kind of detector. Surely the dentists would be horrified to see concrete evidence like that.

As for me, I think I am very slowly getting better. The change is small, but noticeable. I just feel "different." It's like a glimmer on the horizon, but it's there; and unlike previous times when I've felt a little better for half a day or so, I feel like this day after day. I'm holding onto that as a good sign.

Hang in there Bex. It does indeed sound like your immune system is very compromised. I wonder if there are ways to boost it? Do you take lots of vitamin C? (Silly question I guess, but it's a starting point at least.)

Hi Linda, yeah I think that the dental office is probably permanently high in mercury vapor, considering it's a heavy metal, so would land everywhere, equipment, the lot. I have even heard of dentist's houses being contaminated because they bring it home on their clothes.....

Andy Cutler mentions this too and says that it can happen, he's obviously seen cases of it. I know of a guy on another forum (he moderates it), who was takes ages to heal from mercury but doing well and went in for a clean (he had no amalgams) and got repoisoned and he took months to improve again.

So it's a very real phenomenon I think, but obviously hits the immune compromised and highly sensitive. Unfortunate senario. It would be great if dental hygenists had a seperate area from where amalgams are removed. But in all honesty, I noticed something wasn't right just sitting in the reception area!

I have even heard of people becoming poisoned by working in offices in the same building as a dental clinic, so the mercury travels everywhere and apparently even through walls. Scary stuff. a guy working in natural health was going to rent a place to set up his clinic and found out it was nextdoor to an ex dental office and he then refused to rent it. so he was no fool. Once upon a time I would have laughed at this and found it ludicrous, but once you experience it, it's no laughing matter.

The subtle improvements you are noticing? I hope this becomes more and more permanent over time and goes up further and further. This is how it can be, you feel like nothing is happening for ages and then at some point in time, you see a glimmer, but then it disappears...and you lose hope, and it's a painful time of that occuring. like being teased almost. And then at some point you start to notice it happening a bit more and being a little more stable (sticking around longer)...and then improvements became greater until you realise you're becoming well.

I hope this is happening for you! It's hard to stay strong though because so many times it hides itself again, but keep doing what you're doing.

Yeah for me it's just odd, so many things amiss. I take a lot of vitamin C and have tried many things but I nkow there is something very bad going on that I feel would need drastic intervention in order for my body to ever start healing again. And that could well be hidden cavitation/s. I don't know, but it's a bad senario because there are no guarantees it is that and if it is, no guarantees that surgery would fix it. Some people get even worse....so the whole things is upsetting.

Right now I"m dealing with big gut issues and being almost debilitated by it daily. It's like carrying a weight around in my lower gut and nobody knows what it is. I even had a scan and they said nothing was wrong. The diet can help, but right now it's producing limited results. One doc reckons the gangrene he detected in my jaw from his EAV machine was probably the culprit and said that particular side of my jaw is related to the gut....so that was kind of interesting. Not sure what to believe. No other evidence anyway, just his EAV and no dentist will really accept that as evidence to perform surgery.

Not good! But thanks a lot for your ongoing concern and kindness. I'm just glad I can get on here, because if I didn't have this forum, I'd probably sit and rot!

But anyway, keep us posted on how you get along because I am really hoping that you are healing from this condition! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Bex <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's good to stick together here. I'm "on the sugar" again today, after some horrendous cravings, PMS-related I think. I hope I don't settle into a pattern of eating sugar when I'm not on chelation, must really try hard to combat this.

I think you would probably benefit a great deal from a high-quality colloidal silver supplement Bex. I wouldn't listen to the scare stories. If you are being piisoned by something in your mouth then it could really help. Maybe you can research what the best kind in your part of the world is, and how you could use it to treat possible cavitations.

Thanks for the encouraging words, I think you are right. It's really nice to feel not so bad, consistently. I've enjoyed spending time with my little girl today for the first time in weeks, and that was even before I ate any sugar. One of the worst things about the depression has been that being with her and looking after her becomes a chore, and that is just awful because she is the most special thing in my life.

It's so good to hear you are feeling a little better Linda, that your depression is a little better. That's great. I struggle with the sugar around that time of the month too, it really sucks but everyone I know does too! Wonder why it's like that, guess it's all part of the hormones....maybe? Don't know but kicks me in the rearend everytime.
Bex
Sorry to hear you are struggling so badly. I also have alot of viruses and was also wondering if that is what might be holding up progress for me too. My stomach is slowly getting better but just not there yet. When I went to my nd she told me I had a virus in my colan and I was wondering if that could be where my problem lies with my on off constipation. Somedays I feel the viruses acting up(sore throat,chills, achy) so I just wonder if that could be lending a hand to the problem. Then again could just be the candida and removing the metals. Some days I have no problems and feel like things are really coming along but then the plumbing moves alittle slower and well i feel like crap for a few days. This thing seems never ending. They sure did set us up with all this mercury and virus business. Thank you to the gov't and dentists and dr's , this was the present I could not live without. LOL I guess it's better to laugh about it than dwell on the problem so hard. The jerks...I would love to zap them with a few of my viruses and a little amalgam and the sensitivity that comes along with it. Oh and lets not forget the brain problems too!!! I am a little bitter this morning I spent a day down from cooking all day long for Thanksgiving, it really takes a toll on me when I overwork. I made every thing from scratch so I could eat too and was a bit time consuming and tedious. Toward the middle I was getting tired and brain fog had started rolling in and made it even more difficult. My daughter offered to cook but I can't have the things she would have cooked with so that wouldn't have worked. Well I could have ate it but would have put me down longer than just a day from being overworked. Would have made me sick and would not have helped my stomach at all. Well I am rambling along here but just thought I would ask that about the viruses. Hope You fell better soon Bex! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/daisiesforyou.gif" alt="" />
Rachel

Linda: I know exactly what you mean. I am the same. My DMSA rounds have given this back to me, only briefly, but still, better than nothing at all

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/catdance.gif" alt="" />

Hi Linda, yeah it is a comfort to talk to others going through it too!

Well, I think I am going to try the black walnut hulls suggested by sosick. Her own reactions to it have pretty much convinced me to give it a go and then later may try cat's claw. not sure on colloidal silver, tried that once ages ago and dont think I noticed much but perhaps didn't give it too much of a chance. It's so hard because there are so many things one could try!

Yeah, when you start noticing some improvements, you get quite startled at yourself for suddenly becoming more motivated or interested in things that you previously felt unmotivated or indifferent about. Even family members, and the guilt that goes with it is awful. You start to feel like you can't "love" or really enjoy other people, but when you start healing and getting better, the change is seriously astounding and it becomes moreso over time. You actually cannot HELP but enjoy what you should have enjoyed all along.

This is why I try and tell people who are poisoned, not to feel guilty, though it's not easy. But the deadness and the feeling of emptiness and difficultly "loving" is not you talking, it's the toxin. andy talks of this too. Sometimes people can indeed get pscyhological help, but try sweet talking the mercury into being nice and coming out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> because if the person is poisoned, they will get little or nothing out of pscyhe therapy. They are basically screwed up by a neurotoxin deadening their feelings. HOrrible stuff, but wonderful to emerge out of it on the other side. Like night and day. But takes time.

Linda, as you improve from this, you may find you'll will be one of those people that cherish your health and feelings so much, you'll consider material things of much less value. At least that's what it did to me. Not that I ever had much value on material stuff to be honest, but you know what I mean? Things around you that you once thought important, you suddenly realise after suffering so much what is REALLY important. I guess it's a two edged sword. It causes so much loss in one area, but there is a strange inner gain that you don't recognise until you improve. Under the suffering, it's dire, hellish and you become dark and empty, wishing often for an end. So I hope you'll push on through to the other side <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> just so glad to hear you are feeling more feelings and more motivation, especially towards your child, really rewarding when that happens.

HI Rachel, yes the viral problems and associated symptoms are vast and yet so difficult to diagnose and pin down. It would be great if there were just textbook viruses and textbook solutions <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mine is just too darned bizzare for words. Absolutely insane, much worse than the glandular fever I had, and worse than anything else. At least, even in their severity, I had the ability to improve if I made the right efforts. Now? The nature of whatever it is, is truly unpredictable, erratic, crazy and not something I can really understand or heal.

Also no diagnosis of it, no ability to address it, other than taking this or that, or doing this or that and hoping I might hit the jackpot. Most I ever get to, is a seeming improvement or temporary control, but that is short lived and so often it is just severe.

So what you have sounds also very strange and volatile. What allows these things to take hold? Perhaps it is the mercury from being poisoned for so many years, leaving on in a vulnerable state and then uanble to rise above the infection later on. I do not know. Perhaps really volatile hidden bacterias are able to get in and take hold that would never normally have gotten in....?

I'm just taking guesses, because that is all I have. My infection so far has been active for 5 years and showing no sign of going away. It's always there and if I feel better sometimes, I go down again for the most part. I'm more chronically ill than I am "ok". This has been worse than the mercury believe it or not. The mercury was insane, but detoxable!

Thanks for the well wishes Rachel, wish the same for you too and others on here in their plight to get well.

I don't know what to say guys, you have just about moved me to tears. It means a lot to hear these words from people who know exactly what it's like. You do know because I couldn't have expressed thse sentiments better myself. Absolutely Bex, I agree with you. I see the materialism of my own family in America -- no matter how much they have, they always want more things, and better -- and they have no clue, NONE, about what's really important in life. I always knew I would cherish what I have learned from this experience, but I've been rather focused on putting it to an end LOL.

I really hope I carry on feeling like this. It's the first real progress I've made and I'm excited about that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Linda Lou, it's great to read about you feeling a bit better &
enjoying your daughter so much.Long may it continue.
People with experience of suffering or who have experienced loved one suffering,usually have that appreciation of what's important in life.
As they say "health is wealth"
I know that no matter how healthy I become I will always remember these lessons I've learned.I feel much wiser because of my experience.I often find myself more interested in conversation with older people instead of the so often
superficial& materialistic conversational topics by people my own agegroup.Reading through these threads is such a comfort to see how for many of us have such similar views &experiences.

hi lind lou : I am very glad that you are doing better , I know that the depression can be a big pain in the butt and is hard to see past , god speed on your recovery

Thanks for the support guys, you're lovely.

I keep waiting to feel worse again. It's happened so many times before, which was why I was hesitant to say anything about starting to feel better. It has to be said that 5 days at home with grey gloomy skies doesn't help -- my teaching course is only 2 days a week -- but things are OK.

I could just do without the euphoria from the ALA. That's definitely what's causing me to feel like this. It's impairing my judgement slightly and maing it hard for me to actually plan the lessons I need to teach over the next 2 days. I just want to sit here, type on the computer, and think "wha--heyyyyyy." I could do with snapping out of this. Having said that, I think it's an acceptable price to pay for getting better; I'm pretty sure the ALA is really helping me.

Hi Linda, I remember Andy talking about the euphoria from ALA too! Not a bad side effect <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But I am sure there is the distracting and annoying side to it too, but the key as you have said that it is hopefully healing you along the way.

The grey skies and other things would normally have really knocked you? The fact you're "ok" must be a welcome, but rather unusual thing.. I sure hope this improves further and healing will be complete.

But the signs are encouraging, as they are for sunshine too. You do get kind of scared to speak too soon with this, I know how that is! But I like what I'm hearing so far and let's see how this unfolds!

Thanks for keeping us posted, it's really interesting to see Andy's protocol in action on here. How much right now are you taking of both DMSA and ALA? and how many days?

take care <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Bex, I'm going to force myself to do that school work after lunch. The euphoria is really getting me there. It's crucial for me to be as professional as possible right now and I just want to float off on a cloud. Well it's not as extreme as that. It's more like being permanently slightly tipsy. I've never been fond of drinking.

And yes, that's an excellent point about the weather. We've hardly seen the sun for weeks, almost every day is dark and dreary. It would normally have me in the pits, or having a panic attack. But I'm actually better than usual, rather than worse. That ought to speak for itself I think.

At the moment I am on 50mg DMSA and 75mg ALA every 3 hours, 3 days on/3 days off. Next round I'm going to try putting the ALA up to 100mg and then I expect I'll stay there.

Thanks for the encouragement <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I hope I'll be writing Andy a thank-you letter at some point.

What a strange dosing. I mean so much of these stuff. If candida is your issue, which it appears to be, because you react badly to ALA, I would go on a low dose ALA alone, because DMSA allows yeast growth, while ALA as an anti-oxidant helps with it (giving die-off symptoms). What feels worst helps most, believe me. My suggestion is that you know you have candida, when you start reacting badly to things such as anti-oxidants, like ALA, E vit and garlic, but DMSA alleviates symptoms.

Thanks but I don't have candida and I don't react badly to ALA. If I did I wouldn't be taking it. I have tried to go without DMSA and have felt very bad indeed; I need it. What feels worst helps most -- what kind of logic is that? Look, I've said that I don't have candida symptoms, and that I've been on the Paleolithic Diet for a year and a half; I have never experienced die-off symptoms. I can take plenty of vitamin E and I can eat a whole head of garlic in one go without any symptoms. I appreciate that you are trying to help but I think I have a good idea of what my body is telling me.

Hi Pgm, I think Andy has spoken about the yeast potential with chelators and in fact ALA is more problematic than DMSA for yeast in his view. I don't think feeling worse always mean's "better" is happening. Die off or overgrowth both give me awful symptoms.

Andy also believes that yeast is actually the least of someone's issue when it comes to chelators, and that they can treat their yeast and chelate if they wish, but chelation is the cure (if it's mercury) and their yeast issues should improve as the metals are removed and they no longer need such drastic intervention to keep yeast at bay. The body should start to do that by itself when less toxic.

Just passing on some of Andy's comments and he's been dead on in my own experiences with it. THe only thing that I don't quite agree with, is that he doesn't really mention the necessity for the candida diet, yet recommends antifungals.....so that confuses me a little because one without the other is a bad idea. You can't kill yeast and then continue to feed it with stuff in the diet. But again, he is much more into mercury and chelation and candida is not something he gets heavily into (fair enough I guess).

Linda, I think you're on the right track, euphoria or not and if you feel you're ready to give the increased dose a go? Go for it. The main thing is the frequent dosing, because at least if you go too high? You're still taking it at the right times and keeping redistribution at a minimum.

Higher doses do remove more mercury, but as Andy said, if the side effects are too much? It is simply not worth it, because it may not be significant enough to warrant symptoms that may become intolerable. See how you go and wishing you all the best.

PS. Andy actually recommends 100 mg of both in the challenge test too. Here is where he said you can test the urine after the frequent dosing of both DMSA and ALA at this dose. But here is where it gets interesting, just the symptoms alone from this might be evident enough of a mercury problem! So it maybe extreme, but that can be a way for some people to see what symptoms they get, whether mercury is at work....

Hi LindaLou.
My logic behind "what feels worse helps most" is supported by that what has happened to myself, The worse I feel momentarily after a detox reaction the better I feel afterwards and some long-term progress has been made. I have bad days and good days, but I can notice that I still keep getting better and better, and my worse days keep getting less worse.
I have never made any long-term progress unless I get these bad reactions (or have bad days), they seem to be part of the healing process, and many others are also getting them. You might think these bad reactions are useless, and best to be avoided, but I think it is these reactions that are essential and actually the reason for making real progress in healing. Therefore I say "what feels worst helps most". Of course you want to keep down the suffering at a managable level, it's a question about what risks you are willing to take. Going slowly is safest, but your healing also takes longest then.

If you're doing well on DMSA, you may actually be doing what slows down your healing; DMSA slows down the immune system activity, and in that way you may feel well. This is what I have been trying to tell. As far as I know, there is no evidence that taking DMSA with ALA speeds up the recovery process, than going on ALA alone.

I haven't been taking DMSA, but I'd guess If I did that, I would also start feeling better. Would it do me any good? I'd say no, because my mercury load wasn't ever great, parasites have been my main problem. I guess I would have to do this experiment, but I dont have access easily to DMSA here.

Regarding the candida - it's really hard to know whether they are the problem or not. It depends on how good the immune system
is at dealing with them. The only thing you can do is to try the whole battery of supplements and see if you get any side-effects. Often, something bites, like ALA, and you know you have at least some problem then, perhaps candida or some other pathogens. If mercury is your problem, it is highly unlikely that pathogens wouldn't also be. But finding the right supplement was never a problem for me, even vit C bites, I got so sick after one week of taking 1 g of vit C per day.

Hard to be more specific, I'm just trying to do good guesswork, but still basing them on real experience, and more experimentation is definitely needed.

Hi Linda, you should be careful when increasing the dose so much. The metal does not come out that much faster but the side effects rise dramatically. I’m pretty sure this applies to DMSA and to ALA as well.
If u do decide to increase the dose so much, and if u do get nasty side effects, then you should reduce the dosage to what was manageable.

I had a look for you on Yahoo FDC and found these:-


RE: [frequent-dose-chelation] Re: Starting chelation today - How it went

I second that emotion. It sounds to me like you're ramping up very fast.
Keep in mind that metal removal increase by the square root of the chelator
dose, NOT proportionally. So there is no reason to risk side effects by
ramping up fast. Here's how Andy put it in an earlier message:
________________________


Give your kid 10 mg of DMSA every 4 hours: and he pees out let us say
3 mcg of mercury a day.

Give him 100 mg of DMSA every 4 hours and he will pee out 10 mcg of
mercury a day.

Of course some mercury is pooped out too, and DMSA doesn't do anything
to that, so increasing dosage by 10 fold doesn't even increase
excretion by a factor of 3, it is more like 2 times.

Side effects on 10 mg, low.

Side effects on 100 mg, horrendous.

Is this clear, or should I talk about it more?

Andy . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/20443


The amount of metals that come out go more or less as the square root
of the dose. 4X the dose, twice as fast. 9 X, three times as fast.
The side effects go up linearly or worse with dose. Thus the side
effects become dramatic but the metals don't come out much faster.
This is why you want to use a lower dose - the metals come out almost
as fast as at higher dosages, but with MUCH less suffering.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/36193

If the rounds are too hard on you, the best solution would be to reduce the
dose until the side effects are tolerable. As Andy has explained, if you
increase the dose tenfold, you're only eliminating about twice as much
metals. So don't underestimate the power of really small, frequent doses.
I'm 180 pounds and have been pleasantly surprised at how well 12.5 mg every
3 hours works for me, with minimal side effects.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/20449

Take care <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/graduation.gif" alt="" />

sunshine p : that is some very good info on on the dmsa dosages where did you find it ? i've been looking for this type of info for a while , andy cutler should put info like that in his book than more people could make more informed decisions about chelation

I read a post on this a couple of weeks ago, maybe a month ago, but I could not find it after searching, so I asked yesterday for Linda on Yahoo FDC. They are Mercury GODS over there. Seriously knowledgeable people.

They gave me enough info to find what I needed and I posted it above

"Hair Test" book, there's a paragraph about it on page 238. There's also an
earlier post by him that I quoted in one of my emails. He concluded that
doubling the dose increases the rate of metal removal by only 20-25%.

Information is king and so is knowing where to find it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/graduation.gif" alt="" />

I agree with the low dosing of DMSA.

Too much. not good.

I use it but rarely anymore. I do eat my cilantro/garlic/olive oil/lemon (and some black walnut oil and parsley in there of late) pesto at least once a week. that helps me more than anything else.

I was chelated real hard via IV for about 3 months last winter/spring though. Had to, was very sick. You guys are at least here chatting, I did not have the energy to even do that when I was sick. No desire for it whatsoever. the computer gave me massive headaches. I found a doctor within driving distance, glad I did too. They got so much metal out of me the first month alone.

I have dropped the chlorella from my regime. It was good for a while but i think it started giving me a bit of fog head so i dropped it, for now anyway. It's on the shelf if I need it.

Drink lots of water when chelating. Very important. You might add some lemon juice to the water too, helps your liver release toxins.

Thanks for the heads-up Sunshine. Interesting. I will certainly keep this in mind. I wonder, though, why Andy says in his book to take such high doses? If I could afford more DMSA I would increase according to his guidelines. They only start at 50mg. He recommends up to 200mg per dose for ALA.

I'm doing OK with the side effects at the moment. Euphoria doesn't seem to be as troublesome. I was intending to have my usual 3 days off chelation and finished my last round at 4pm yesterday, but had a very disturbed night's sleep and an early morning wake-up, a symptom that's been dogging me during these long dark nights, usually when I've had several days off chelation. Strange how I got whacked right away this time. If it's redistribution then it's pretty striking. I haven't noticed any change in other symptoms. Started chelating again this morning. I have also had a few itchy rashes actually, which I would like to think are a sign that my body is just working extra hard right now to get the mercury out.

The glimpses of feeling good, or normal, have gone for now. But I think that's to be expected as my body keeps dumping the mercury. My mood is fine, thankfully, and my brain is fairly clear, and those things are what I need in order to function.

We had a Lord of the Rings film on last night. Has it struck anyone else here that depression is Mordor? I wonder if Tolkien was ever depressed. He fought in the trenches in World War One, so maybe that's pretty similar.

Re Andy dosing: yes….what he (and Yahoo FDC) now recommends is starting very low. I did ask why and was given the following reply:


From what I have read on Y FDC 75 to 100 mg of ALA is considered very high, but I’m not really taking much notice of ALA yet, that’s 2 months off and I will start at similar low dosage 12.5mg tops. They are very helpful over there so just ask away if u concerned.

You said you finish a round at 4pm yesterday, then restarted again this morning? how long are you breaking between rounds?

Tolkien did get depressed. He was in the trenches in the Great War and it affected him real bad. That’s one of the reasons he wrote the book. All that fear and despair, with no hope of surviving being on the front line, all his friends next to them getting killed, very low life expectancy……but battling on and on and never giving up, even when they forgot what, why and who they where fighting for, but never never giving up. Until, after all the pain, torment and struggling, to finally triumph gloriously over evil……great book if u never read it. The book is really dark. The despair is mind numbing, just as it must have been in the trenches.

Yep, I think The Lord of the Rings is one of the greatest literary works in the English language. It ranks up with the best. As an English teacher I'm happy to give plenty of justification for this. I've made it through the Silmarillion too. This man invented an incredibly convincing and complex world.

Back to chelation, thanks for all this info from the other forum. I did actually start like you are, with 12.5mg DMSA. I couldn't cope with anything higher. As I gradually adjusted to that, I gradually increased the amount, 12.5mg at a time. After about 2 months I added ALA, again at 12.5mg, and worked my way up. Every time I increased a dose of either chelator my symptoms flared up, but they then settled down over two or three rounds as my body adjusted. When I was on 50mg of each not long ago, I wouldn't have known the difference between having chelators in my body, or not (apart from when the sleep problems started to recur if I was off chelation too long).

When I got Andy's book and he was giving such high ALA doses, I thought I'd have a go at increasing my own dose, and I went up to 75mg. Around that time I was also starting to get those glimpses of normality. It seems to me that maybe the ALA was having an effect there. I don't know. But I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at so I'll just feel it out I think.

Normally I leave it 3 days between rounds. I was very concerned to have such a disrupted night of sleep, which is why I started chelating so soon again this time. I feel awful the next day when I get those sleep problems; I feel totally jet lagged. Unfortunately it seems to be sticking with me for now because I have been incredibly tired since 7pm tonight. That usually means I'll be wide awake by 3 or 4 am. My guess would be that the mercury is interfering with my body clock, or hormones that regulate it. The sleep trouble was one of the earliest symptoms I had. It disappeared with diet and supplements but was there again straight away when I had my amalgams out. The dark nights make it worse because sunlight helps to regulate the body clock.

Is this making sense . . . ? So tired (yawn).

Hi, just to mention DMSA here and the fact I believe it does not slow down progress, but speeds it up. I recall the times of being mercury poisoned, either after exposure in the dental office, or amalgam removal itself or the dumping stage.

Each time this occured and I tried to do "nothing" or take other mobilising detox agents, I found myself going in painful circles, but not making significant gains. Once I got onto DMSA and took it Andy Cutler style, I began to make REAL progress and I mean even after I stopped using it.

So once again, I have to say this is not about the immune suppressing actions of DMSA (which I've not heard of before), but rather it plain and simply chelates metals.

One doctor had me on his protocol and I simply could not tolerate the side effects, but I understood the reactions of getting worse to get better. This indeed can and does happen and it's a painful price to pay for improvement at the other end. BUT, I could not continue and in the end I opted again for DMSA.

I still got the detox, but the improvements came and I got the newly exposed mercury out of my system and that improvement remained. SO I could stop taking it. It is not as powerful in chelating apparently as ALA, but it is still very helpful and effective and most definitely speeds things up. I have proven this time and time again with myself.

Andrew Cutler's book mentions chelating with ALA alone or with DMSA and without a doubt, it is recommended to chelate with both if possible. Why? Because he's proven that taking both increases the rate and speed of chelation, more than just ALA by itself. Yes it can help with side effects too and no doubt this can also be attributed to the fact it's a very strong binding drug and anything ALA has chelated from the brain can have the extra chelating ability of DMSA working with it. DMSA is good to bind mercury in the blood and tissue, so it makes sense.

I do not find DMSA helps me unless I have been newly exposed to mercury and/or somehow it's been mobilised out of organs into circulation more. Yet I have plenty of symptoms from other toxicity and illness, so far from DMSA suppressing my immuntiy and giving a fake sense of improvement, it has no effect at all because there is either not enough mercury or it is not in the areas that DMSA can reach.

DMSA only chelates extracellular mercury, whereas ALA chelates intracellular. I feel both compliment eachother when used together. Unless someone cannot tolerate DMSA. ALA will still do the job on its own.

Thanks for the reassuring post Bex. Sometimes in researching alt med methods you can get yourself so blinded with science that you question absolutely everything and start to wonder if you're in a complete muddle. I don't want that to happen to me now. I see myself getting better with what I'm doing; so unless that starts to change, I am going to carry on as I have been. I just put in a big order for DMSA in the US, which I will take home with me after I've visited my family there for Christmas (they are flying us over for a week because they want to spend a Christmas with my daughter). It's by far the most expensive order for any supplement I'm getting over there, but I think I have enough faith now that it will be well worth it.

The first post in this thread was about me going to see a regular Doctor and “wish me luck!”

Well the regular doc is a miracle worker.

He did lots of blood tests, loads and loads of results came back, and by a miracle he has cured me. He didn’t even have to DO anything. He said there was nothing wrong with me. All the tests came back normal, within range. So nothing for me to worry about, just go home and take it easy. Just a little blood sugar thing….but there is nothing i can do about that anyway, so just live with it.

A real miracle man for sure. How lucky I am to have such a wonderful doctor. Free, on the NHS too!

I did mention the fatigue and lack of energy, ultra low weight, low body temp, food intolerances, brain fog, mercury poisoning, copper poisoning, parasites, dodgy back and all the rest of my aches and pains…but he was not interest…he just waved them away. So I assume he wished them away for me too and I am cured.

What a COCK!

He didn’t listen to anything I said, just looked at the in-range lab tests and sent me away.

This is exactly how I got into such a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/censored.gif" alt="" /> bad state in the first <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/censored.gif" alt="" /> place. By listening to stupid <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/censored.gif" alt="" /> like him.

Think of all the people doctors like him turn away every single day….”nothing wrong with you sir! Go home and take it easy”

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Thank you, sorry for the outburst, I feel much better now….i will go home and take it easy!

LL, by all means go ahead. My intention was not to confuse anyone here, just DMSA doesn't look very good on paper to me. If it helps you, then it should help a substantial amount of the population in countries where amalgam fillings are used, because everyone is mercury poisoned to some degree. DMSA was originally developed to treat perhaps a larger scale poisoning, the exposure from a few fillings over a few years seems a bit small for that (this was your case). Perhaps some of its efficiency comes from chelation of lead too, or methylmercury? Or some other undocumented effect. Who knows. Some sources even claim that DMSA chelates brain mercury, which doesn't seem to be true.

LOL. Hey, I had that same doctor here in the states! Amazing how I could feel sicker than I ever felt in my whole life, with DEFINITE physical signs as well as horrendous mental symptoms, and be told there is nothing wrong with you.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yeahright.gif" alt="" />
TW

All I can say there is that I did try other chelation methods at first, but didn't start feeling better until I got onto DMSA. When I started ALA, the brain fog lifted too. I'd be interested in finding out exactly how they work, certainly, but in the meantime I'm not too worried as long as they seem to be doing what I need them to do.

Sunshine, I'm sorry but I had to laugh. What else did you expect from a GP? They are clueless. On my SAD forum I have to put up with pill-popping idiots who advise everyone to see their doctor, in a very reassuring sort of way, as if this will be the answer to all their troubles. I do try to explain why that's often not the case but you can probably imagine how well these opinions are received.

All we can do is spread the word ourselves, and hope that someday soon the medical establishment will get a clue and start making naturopathic alt med practices into mainstream ones, where they belong. The pharmaceuticals are a big, big obstacle but I like to try to be optimistic.

Good on you for being strong and taking responsibility for your health. Most people never get that far. It sounds like you've really done a lot to help yourself. How is the chelation going?

Hi

Regular doctors is one of the few things that totally and utterly pisses me off. Every. Single. Time. I. think. About. Them. yup,,, really gets me going. Makes me mad.

To send me away saying I am fine is just wrong. Wrong, wrong and wrong all over wrong. It is worse than useless because it stops people from doing anything about getting better.
“You are fine, go home.” Ahhhhhh….anyway…….i am long past listening to those doctors thankfully. The purpose of going to see the doctor was twofold
1) see if they could help me understand adrenals
2) see if they are all useless and no point in seeing them.

No help on adrenals
They are useless and no point in seeing them

I am on my own
I always was
I always will be

Chelation. Round 4 started today. Due to gentle rollercoaster riding on previous rounds I have reduced dosage times to 3 hours in the day and 4 hours in the evening and night

6am, 9am, 12noon, 3pm, 6pm, 10pm, 2am

all went really well today until 930pm i.e 3.5 hours after last dose…then brain fog arrived, only mildly, but its still here now at 11pm. Enough to know that I need to dose every 3 hours. So that means I have to dose twice in the night, which I was trying to avoid.

So I will go to:

6am, 9am, 12noon, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm, 12midnight, 3am

I had to laugh guys, sounds so familiar. Must be alot of those miracle working docs all around the world. I had one too!!! LOL
Sunshine just trust yourself, you must be a pretty good doc....you have brought yourself back to healing. I say you have done well so keep on keepin on. Don't no how good of a doc I am but the color brown is just knocking me over right now. Memory is coming back a little more vivid and the fear I have been under has seemed to start taking a turn. Just thought I would tell ya that. So follow your heart and enjoy all the newness. It's just too cool!
Rachel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kewldance.gif" alt="" />

No worries Linda, I've heard of people getting well on DMSA alone, even without ALA. So there's some further reassurance for you I hope. I'm of the same thinking as Pgm, in the respect of - if something suppresses symptoms and in doing so slows down healing, there would be no way I'd do it unless I was desperate..... but in all honestly, most of the time I got detox effects from using DMSA and sometimes it was still very hard, even on andy's protocol.

But usually once I got through it? I knew I was on the right track because of the improvements I got after the detox. I think the frequent dosing definitely helps to keep things a little more tolerable. And yes sometimes it did actually help the symptoms too, but there was always progress then (when it was mercury). I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating and you will know in yourself if things are happening.

DMSA can cause horrendous detox effects if it is not used in a controlled manner, so bad it can move mercury into the nervous system/brain and make a bad situation much worse, as can using any other chelator in the wrong way or using mobilising agents, which can do the same thing.

Some people have been nearly crippled by detoxing mercury in a way that has not suited them. Scary stuff. I consider DMSA pretty powerful personally, which is why I think it's crucial to stick to a more even protocol.

I know one guy that did not use andy's protocol, but still got well with DMSA. He chose to do it in his way and recovered regardless, as have others he knows.

I know that it can cause neutropenia, which andy mentions in his book, but it is rare and it is reversible. I think this is lowering of the white blood cell count. And this is most likely caused by high long term dosing.

one website I read believes that DMSA should always be used with ALA. They feel that the ALA is very good for pulling mercury out of the brain and organs, but not so great in holding onto it after that, which is why they think it's good to have the DMSA there to grab it once it's been pulled into the blood by ALA....not sure what to believe there, but whatever the case, they seem to work well together.

Unfortunately some people just don't respond well to DMSA no matter how they take it, or how low the dose, which "can" be too many mercury detox symptoms, but could be the DMSA itself.....I'm glad you tolerate it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> And if things are moving along, if it aint broke, don't fix it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL, sorry to laugh Sunshine, but it was hard not to. I couldn't have said it any better. This is the same senario I get with doctors. A complete waste of money and time in these areas and one is forced to become their own doctor almost and hope to heck they find someone that will understand and give advice.

Thank GOD for the internet! I know there is bad on the net, but there is a lot of good too and I see it continually on this very form by compassionate and passionate people.

i avoid doctors like the plague. in the past few yrs ihave had every test imaginable but they all show within normal ranges, now get this, my endo actually told me that i dont need any thyroid meds even though i had 90% of it removed and have tto live with only 10% of my thyroid, where do they get their training!
my own gp says that hypo thyroid doesnt make you swell, i showed her my ankles which were swollen, she said i should lose weight, it was only fat, im about 7 and half stone in weight. i live opposite the surgery, i get cold shivers when i look out my window and see her window, its a bloody nightmare, theres us and theres them on 2 different sides.
what a life! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/imnotworthy.gif" alt="" />

Ah! Bloody Doctors. What a ‘mare. I did know what would happen, really I did, but I wanted to test out the system, see what happened. You all know I like my experiments! I have spent all 11 months of this year educating myself, with some help from my muscle tester guy, but I have not seen a normal doctor in that time. I have read at least 40 health books, and god knows how many internet pages.

So, now that I know what I’m talking about, I wanted to see if the doctors did…..and he failed massively…..my mind boggles. He sent me home! Unreal!

Really…this is exactly the reason I am so bloody ill. Because the doctors don’t know how to do their jobs!

If they did, they would not have sent me home!

I’m trying hard to see the funny side, it is funny, but funny in a morbid kinda bash-my-head-against-the-wall-way. This really does get me down.

The future of mankind is in the hands of our useless doctors and companies focused on making money, not making (or even keeping) people healthy.

(….head in my hands……)

Anyway….it’s a glorious day in London town, the sun is shining, the skies are blue, the air is crisp and fresh. I’m gonna get out side and enjoy my new eyes. Blues and yellows are wonderful. Yesterday I noticed the train I take everyday had a green roof, so maybe green is coming back now……?

SS:

In no way was I laughing at you about your trip to the doctor. Though your post was funny. What I laugh at is the insanity of this situation. These highly trained, highly paid folks are missing something somewhere, somehow when they treat lab numbers and not people! What is this all about, and how could something like mercury, a known poison, not be recognized and treated? For 170+ years or whatever?

And... how can dentists even consider using it in their practice? For god sakes, there is a skull and crossbones right on the bottle! This proves to me this world is insane - it really is nothing more than a dream in time. The real world is elsewhere.

TW

Its fine Tumbleweed, post was supposed to make you laugh <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Its either that or cry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />