News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

I guess that Mormons won't be turning to you or your Jesus when they are in a crisis. At least Jeanie won't. Thanks for doing your part to win people over to the Lord.

What kind of hateful things did the Mormon missionaries say to you before they rode off on their bicycles? Were they similar to the things that auto mechanic said in the video you presented. I'm sure Christ was proud of him.

WW(your)JD: Apparently, belittle people for not knowing something.

Ha, as if mormons ever would have turned to a bible believing Christain for help anyway.

They think we are heathens and have doctrines to kill us not save us doyhead.

WWJD? Go read the bible and see what he said to people who twisted the word of God.

You serpents you vipers...

Go try living among them and see what kind of reception you get.

Are you suggesting mormons don't know the bible, Linear?

Oh wait, I'm sorry, a bit slow on the goods here...
now I get it.. you just need to be able to continue to accuse Christians of something while overlooking the fact that you are blaming the wrong people for the wrong things 99.9% of the time and never taking responsibilty for anything yourself either.

ok now I get it.

sorry, I forgot to play the game.

What's the name of your game anyway Linear, is it some form of Twister?

why don't you move your focus from christians to some other group once in a while? Is it because in your heart you believe that America IS predominantly a Christian nation?

Do some research about Brigham Young and his well known doctrines of blood atonement and ideas of the mormon kingdom on earth.

you'll never get the real truth form mormons, but you will get it from ex-mormons. Mormons will tell you these things are too 'sacred' to discuss.

Other things they don't like to discuss while standing on your porch are their rituals for marrying the dead to themselves. it's why they are so interested in your genealogy.

of course you could just ask Jeanie but she has probably taken an oath not to discuss it.

I already know it is predominantly a Christian nation.

What in your post even makes an attempt to address the issues I brought up?
Do you think that pretending I am against all Christians and Christ Himself, in any way changes the fact that SOME Christians in the US are using their influence to oppress a minority group because they are "sinning", yet they refuse to use the same influence against another group that is sinning as much or more?

You say I am blaming the wrong people but fail to support that. Who should I be blaming...Mormons? Buddhists? Can you provide links to the Buddhist lobbying groups that are trying to prevent same-sex marriage or make homosexuality a crime?

The June 2008 Family News from Dr James Dobson states that Christian businessmen should refuse service to homosexuals if they have a "sincerely held religious belief that homosexuality is wrong". I have never seen Dr. Dobson make that kind of statement for businessmen that have a "sincerely held religious belief that Buddhism is wrong". Why not?

Why do I, or anyone else for that matter, need to readdress the same things over and over for you everyday Linear? Are you unhappy with the answers you got yesterday? I haven't got any new ones for you today.

The only reason you even to need point out what you feel is 'oppression' against some minority group or another is that that very same minority group or another is trying to oppress christians (and others) who refuse to give in and be oppressed by the values of a minority within society.

Really, my take on your situation Linear, is that the spirit of anti-christ in you simply needs to be fed daily. And uses whatever means it's able to get you to feed it.

as long as you are railing against Christians, on any issue it doesn't matter just make something up, it is how you started this thread to begin with as usual.. you have done it elsewhere too.. your anti-christ spirt is happy.

Ther isn't much of an anti-buddha spirit in the world simply because buddha poses no threat to your dominion of darkness.

you are just a puppet.

The Dalai Lama has stated that he thinks that gay marriage is wrong, and he is considered the leader of all Tibetan Buddhists.

He didn't do much protesting about it though...you know, too busy trying to save his own people and his land from the chinese genocide that his been going on in Tibet.

You didn't have any yesterday that actually addressed the points I made. That is unless you feel that a criticism of the actions of any Christian group is a criticism of all Christians. I can't help it if you feel that way, but that was not my intent.


Reading my mind again, I see. I thought witchcraft was frowned upon within the Christian church.

What laws have they tried to enact that would oppress you?

How are their minority values oppressing you any more than the minority values of the Hindu religion in our society? Please be specific.


Now I am harboring the anti-Christ. I didn't know you had the gift of discernment. Please, tell everyone what my real name is.

So Buddhists are part of the dominion of darkness. Strangely, you don't mind if our children are exposed to their lifestyle.



Discernment again? Maybe you can tell me what car I drive?

Exactly, we are required to love them, as Christ loves all of us and has asked us to do the same. Part of love is also correction/warning. Living in a sinful sexual relationship/lifestyle is not freedom it is captivity in sin, which was the reason Christ died and rose again for. To free us from sin, make us clean in the eyes of the Father with the redemptive blood of Christ.

Okaying someone's lifestyle, when it offends God and leads to the loss of a person's soul is not love. If Christ failed to warn and admonish us, what kind of love would that be, considering He knew the consequences of our sin? How about loving God? God said "if you love me, keep my commandments".

Speaking of commandments. You talk about biblical laws, as though they should really not be part of society laws. Let us not forget the "Ten commandments" and let us not forget that they have not been "invalidated". People seem to feel that as time goes on, somehow it cancels out God's eternal laws. It doesn't. Unless Christ instituted something else, which as far as the ten commandments go? He has not. And confirms them in the new testament. No generation is more "modern" than God. Though they claim that these things are "outdated" "old fashioned". When God is older than time and more modern than anybody we know. He and His laws are eternal and apply as much today as they did then.

These commands were not "Ten Suggestions", they were commandments. If that's not clear? I don't know what is. Now, that's not to say that everyone of us follows each of them perfectly everyday. Most of us have failed, which is why we require baptism (born again and renewed) and thereafter, ongoing help from God and forgiveness when we fall again. But we must continue to hold them up, because these laws are eternal and apply to each and every individual and nation. Whether they like it or not. Who is the ultimate ruler? Why should or WOULD any true Christian substitute man-made laws over God's?

For me as a Christian Linear, I am expected to be on the side of Christ and I am. That's what a Christian is, is it not? So I myself would vote against homosexual marriage, because I know that this sin is truly an abomination to God. He Himself has said so. Now, if I did nothing, or voted for it, I will answer severely. Because such a law being passed is an offense to Him, because it is not okay with Him, therefore why should it be ok with me? It also tells children that this is normal, this is "ok" and good enough for these people to marry eachother. It does, in a sense, make a bit of a mockery of what marriage was originally intended for. I believe that Britney Spears herself has also made a mockery of it (personally). Many people do mock marriage Linear, it's not just the sin of homosexuality. Some people think the whole thing is a joke and marry eachother out of lust, and then wake up later and decide "I don't want to be with this person".

Giving homosexuality the ring of married acceptance is wrong in God's eyes, because the sin of homosexuality is wrong. And those who claim to believe in Him should feel the same way. Now, if America is prodominately Christian, then we should not be surprised that this law will have a few problems getting passed. If it wasn't, I'd wonder what on earth these "Christians' were doing? Those pro homosexual can vote FOR it and those against this sin and against marriage being mocked in such a manner, can vote against it. Is that not our right? We have freedom to vote or protest right? This is a battle Linear of the spirit, rather than the flesh and if one believes in their heart this is wrong, is obligated to act accordingly.

Since the US was founded on Christianity, and has many Christians living there, this is how it should be. I cannot figure out why homosexuals think they should have marriage rights, when the origin the institute in marriage comes from God and it's even more strange in a country founded on Christianity that they should consider such a thing...if they wish to sign up a personal agreement with eachother, nobody can stop them in doing that. Nobody can stop them marrying in areas that have made this practise legal either. Why though should Christians allow it if they have the right to protest against it with God on their side?

Personally I would not like to face Christ Himself and state "well I know that it was an offense to you, but...well...they have rights too you know and why should we comply with your laws"? Um, Linear, since I believe that Christ is the king of kings and Lord of Lords, and the Creator, He not only owns us, He owns the world....and that includes the ultimate law of the land. Yes, with free will many will disobey Him, but I personally would have problems with any law being passed that is in defiance of the law maker Himself.

I find certain things a bit difficult also to be honest. But God knows better than we do and I usually find that the things that happen in my life are often for my own good, though at the time, I don't see it that way. I've shaken my first at Him a few times too. But in the end, I see the journey I am on and the difficulties that come to shape me as I near the time of my death. Whether I like them or not, is of no consequence. Because ultimately it's about the afterlife and where we are going to end up.

Nobody said that obeying God and enduring testing was going to be easy, but to do so, even when it may cause us some pain? The reward will be great. Consider the things Christ endured and gave up for the sake of the Kingdom and for our sake? We are asked to do likewise.

Thank you Sosick for pointing out that I did not refer to these people as "disgusting sodomites" and apology accepted Linear. But if you really want to find out who has used harsher language on those that practise this sin? Read the bible. God Himself has used VERY harsh terms against sins of sexuality and does not mince words. I've been mild in comparison. That's how angry He is with many of us. And rightly so. The sins of Sodom and Gommorrah are being repeated today, and all across the world (rather than concentrated in two cities). The difference is, there are also many people who are trying to live good lives, which I believe is staying back the angry hand of God. I believe He would have acted a long time ago otherwise. Though it does warn us in the bible that this time is most certainly coming, because the world is groaning under the weight of sin and is in desperate need of God's renewal.

Thank you for apologizing SS.

I know you well enough to know that your style is to-the-point and it can certainly seem harsh, but you are just defending what you believe.

This is a good topic, something I know quite a bit about because I've studied Mormonism and known a lot of Mormons, so let's not let anger—or the perception of it—get in the way.

Hello Bex and those who have posted regarding 'What a true Christian is'. Can we please use the Word of God, and see what He has to say?
Jesus tells us in Matthew Chapter 7 of 'The Narrow and Wide Gates to Heaven'... Vs. 13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Question? How will one recognize a Christian? Jesus says in Matt. 7:15+ "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheeps's clothes, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit, you will recognize them. ..17+)Likewise every good tree bears good fruit (for His Kingdom),but a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21)Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
What are the 'fruit(s)' of righteous/unrighteous people?
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, not adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the the kingdom of God."
"Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
Yes, I agree in that we have the 10 Commandments as our 'guide' (if you will) to living out the Christian life. However, NOBODY could, or can keep the 10 Commandments. Therefore we are not under the Law, per se', but under His grace. Please read Romans Chapter 3 where Apostle Paul explains what the purpose of the Law is: Vs. 19)" Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law,so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. vs.21) But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested being witness by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe for there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. vs 24) being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus: vs 28) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. vs 31) Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Ephesians 2:8-10) For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."
Yes, Jesus said, "This is my commandment that you love one another."
Just as Jesus, I believe we are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. We must be 'born again to see the Kingdom of God,' Jesus also said in John 3:3.
So we see that it takes 'faith, new birth, love, following Christ's footsteps, and when we fall (which we all do/will), we claim 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Blessings and May our Sovereign Lord lead us all on His path , Abishag <>< May God bless and forgive America!

Hi Abishag, thank you for this. Nobody can say it or explain it better than God Himself. I have used some quote and verse, but did not fully back every statement made as you have! I'm not proud of my "quote and verse" weaknesses.

All things in this life, if we are believers in God, should be tested against His word (running it past Him basically). Afterall, is He not the maker of all things? Therefore all things are subject to Him.

God bless you and thanks again.

Blessings to Bex and everyone 'trying' , as best as we humans possibly can, to 'walk as Jesus, Himself walked'.

You are absolutely right, Bex! I agree 100%, in that we should 'test everything against the Word of God." Yes, all things are subject to Him, the creator of the entire universe!

We can't even fathom the awesomeness of our Great God! For those who truly are interested in understanding our Lord, I recommend reading the book of 'JOB'. That book should greatly humble each one of us.

The answers that God Himself, the Creator of the Universe, gave to Job are astounding! We read "God Challenges Job" in Chapters 38-41. WOW! I must remind myself of these verses often!

The big question? "When did God answer Job's plea?" Please read Chapter 42 verse 10 "When Job prayed for his friends... God gave Job twice as much as he had before." WHOA!

Amazing, isn't it Bex, that this forum was intended for 'Politics/political' discussions, and the Lord is using it for His glory, once again?

You are most kind and helpful, Bex! Thank you for your insight into Scripture. We are all down here on this little planet earth, to "Glorify God"....it's not about us, it's all about HIM!
You have a beautiful heart, Bex! Keep shining in this dark world for Jesus! We are to be His 'salt and light', to a dying world. You are doing a marvelous job.
May God's grace, mercy, and love be with you!
Sincerely we press on, in Jesus!
One of His Followers, Abishag <><

Why you are mighty welcome Russ, for my apology.

apology for what, I am not sure but I'm always glad to offer one.

I didn't realize my purpose here was to be a pleaser of men, or women.

I don't think I am able to come to that realization any time soon either.

The inabilty of men pleasers to stand firmly in the word of God that you so often enjoy touting, is the root of all the problems and situations you complain of. You can't have your cake and eat it too. And I do find it more than just a little bit odd you say that to me but no one else, as though I have not been offended. let me tell ya, I have indeed. Cursed at repeatedly accused of things I have not done, repeatedly, and I am always asked for an apology.

No, Russ, no apology truly necessary even if I offer one. It's clear where your allegiences lie.

Please delete the photos of mine that I tried to delete and you archived and reposted without my permission. This is copyrighted material, my copyright, not yours. I am asking you publicly this time, hoping it does not go in one ear and out the other. I'm glad you like the photos Russ, but I really don;t want them here all year or for 5 years if you don't mind. i am truly sorry you don't understand. It has nothing to do with you, yet... please delete my photos from your archive!! Is this like yahoo or something, once someone posts a photo you are going to claim you own it? A lot of that is published material Russ, my copyright not yours or anyone elses, remove it as soon as you can please. It should not take more than 5 minutes I have no idea why I asked you nicely 4-5 weeks ago about it and the photos are still there.

and I have ever gotten an apology?... noooo. why is that Russ, your disdain for Christians as a whole? Those deceived church going retards? the faith of those Christian retards is worth so much more than your fear mongering. a true retard with an IQ of 65 who has true faith in God is better off than you are with all you claim to know.

Exactly how do you expect people to know other people's beliefs when they know nothing about them Russ? ESP? Anyone complaining about things I post should have first made me aware that certain information and viewpoints offended them. Poeple who are offended by certain veiwpoints should not bait others with requests for questions and viewpoints.. and it should be obvious that if they cry offense when it turns out they get offended by the viewpoints they themselves requested, they have a Problem. capital P.

Galatians 1:10 -
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Let me make myself perfectly clear if that isn't clear up above with everything else stuck in there with it, Russ...

I am not offended by other people whose viewpoints conflict with mine. I do find the cursing somewhat offensive. But it's really neither here nor there.

But, what actually offends me Russ, is your constant quoting of scripture and your constant lack of adherence to it whilst you continually side with those who oppose scripture when their egos are dented, assuage them, and instead chastise Christians who are only doing as the scripture you quote has directed them.

It is extremely offensive Russ and I question your motives in it.

SoSick, I would calm down...

Just so you know - I've been a member of this church since 1975 and think I know a little better what we believe. Unrepentant adulterers would, in time, be excommunicated, but we don't believe in murder.... : ) There has been a lot of information twisted and misconstrued by enemies to the church - some who have been excommunicated. There is a lot of anti-Mormon false stuff out there. Its simply not true. Seriously - the only way to get correct information is through us. Our beliefs are completely in harmony with pretty much all you've stated other than that I guess you could say what we believe expounds on things a little more. Nothing contradicts the Bible. Ezekial 37: 15-17 refers to the joining of the stick of Judah (Bible) and the stick of Joseph (Book of Mormon). We use them together. We have more detail concerning the creation, the prieshtood, "heaven" and hell issues, and believe in modern day revelation. If you actually read any of the quotes I've sent in.... While we do believe that there is a restored church on the earth it doesn't mean we think you're all apostates. Apostates are people within the church who turn against it - who know better. No - we believe there is more....but you are a good person. All this contention isn't good for you or anyone else, though. I'm not the enemy and generally have agreed with almost everything you've said in here - though I cannot agree with the manner with which you present it... (And you're definitely all wet about us...(Mormons). Our Jesus is the same exact one you believe in. We just happen to believe He is speaking to us again...and has a church on the earth which HE runs through revelation to those who hold the keys and authority to receive that revelation. Calm down...

The issue is not your beliefs Jeanie.

the issue is Russ' own redundant lamentations that the church has backslidden and become a feely good organization all over. Yet he fails to notice that he himself caves into every demand against Christians who speak their minds and hold to scripture.

One big ball of confusion.

SS, I originally said thank you for apologizing because I honestly thought you had apologized. Now that I have read the thread more carefully, I see that you didn't, and that's OK. I never meant to say that you HAD too.

...And now this. It seems that you have been really offended and have been holding some things in. I guess this is the way we get to find out.





I already sent you a message days ago asking what post number the pics are in. I'll be happy to delete them but you never answered me so I don't know what you're taking about.


Also, you're way off base here. I guess I'll chalk it up to mercury toxicity, but you are just really acting in a dishonorable way.

I have told you in detail why I am disappointed with and sad about the condition of the modern church.

Do you have a problem with that?

You are misrepresenting me in a big way sister.

I also would remind you that—as a Christian—we are supposed to be respectful to people. Is there a Biblical basis for tirades? Will you witness to the air after you have pushed everyone away?

Your conduct is a reflection of who you are, regardless of what others have said to you or how someone has offended you. Likewise, their conduct is a reflection on them, not you.

Also, as I've told people before, I am very open to letting people speak freely, but I draw the line on slander, and you have said things in your previous posts that are really misrepresenting me.




I'm really shocked at what you're saying. What scripture exactly to you think I'm violating? Who have I continually sided with?

...And questioning my motives? Motives for what?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

What exactly do you think my motives are?

You are really misjudging me and I believe you are way off base. You obviously don't know anything about me.

Nevertheless, if you have an accusation, bring it on.

Also remember that while your accusing me of being some kind of heathen (for reasons I cannot imagine), I would remind you that the scripture tells us not to be easily offended.




First off, I don't use that word SS.

Secondly, I didn't know you wanted an apology. I don't even know why?

Third, If you want me to boldly stand up and point out people's faults, and if you so aptly do it with others (as we have all witnessed you do), then why are you so offended when I tell you what disappoints me about the current state of the Christian church?

Um, doesn't that seem a little, um... hypocritical?

By your own logic, you want me to do it to other people, but if my view of the modern church rubs you the wrong way, then, well, I just better keep my mouth shut.

Is it time for a little self examination, perhaps?


Finally, what ever happened to that scripture about going to someone privately first if they have offended you?

Remember? Privately first. With a mediator second. To the congregation third.

Instead you post on a public forum something that offended you in our private messages. Amazingly, this is the first time I've heard about it offending you.


You are way off base here...and on several fronts.

While your insights into scripture are interesting, they don't really address the issue of this thread. The issue is why do certain groups of Christians stand against and try to make laws against some people who are "sinning" but do nothing against another group that is trying to lead their children away from Christ?

http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24517#Post24517

There may be others I haven't checked every place I ever posted a photo Russ but if you archived these photos you probaly archived the others. The only person who could have reposted material into my posts is you. I never saw a pm asking about which thread they were in, sorry.



When a lot of the things you say are not true Russ, yes I have a problem with it. By your own admission you do not attend church or fellowship with Christians anywhere, yet you make blanket stements that condemn the churches, as an outsider looking in. You do not know these people, yet you judge them. You belittle them for having faith while you spend your time running in circles fear mongering.




not really Russ.


Not really Russ. Seems to me you draw the line on people slandering you, or your pecerption that someone is slandering you, but you don't give a hoot when others are slandered. You have allowed people to use some of the most vile language with me personally Russ, for no reason other than the fact That I had simply mentioned the name Jesus here and there (originally) or presnted an opinion that opposed other religions or non-religious beliefs. Exactly when have you drawn the line when people have slandered me Russ? never Russ. You take a middle ground that says, Sos, don't say things that irritate people, and to others you will say SoS has some strong views. In other words Russ,. when people curse at me or accuse me of whatever, it's always my fault.

Fine it's always my fault. That is where you have repeatedly drawn the line Russ. Irregardless of the fact that all I have ever usually done is mention the name of Jesus or proclaim my faith, or presented facts that others couldn't argue with and this they have resorted to slander instead.


I have no idea what your motives are. But they defintely exist.


Russ, at the point you require me to apologoze to others without ever requiring anyone to apologize to me, I'd say that there is a perception problem.



I never said I wanted you to boldy stand up and point out people's faults. I am not offended when you tell me you are disappointed with the church. In that regard, what is offensive is your lack of real world contact with the people you are discussing and condemning. Concerning your views of the church, they are rather full of worldly anti-church propoganda... and contain many non-truths. Standing on the outside looking in is not a place from which to form an opinion Russ. I do hope the items I pointed out to you in regard to problems within the church, from an insider, are helpful to you.




I never said that either Russ and it's interesting that you perceive my statements that way. I do know how you feel. What I said is that when you ask me to apologize to someone for presenting facts about certain things , which facts might well offend them when made public and are often repulsive to many as well, you are in essence telling me, and others, to shut up. Perhaps it is a time for a bit of self examination




Excuse me Russ, but that scripture is applied within the church (eg; mediator/congregation), which you, by your own admission, are not a member of.

and that is a perfect example of the various misuses of scripture that you attempt that are, in actually, rather offensive. You yourself are neither the mediator, nor the congregation, Russ. And this webboard is not the church.

sorry, but these 2 sentences dropped off my cut/paste and should end the above post --\\


I have presented these views at that point here publicly because in all sincerity Russ, the forum members do represent those groups better than you yourself.

and because you took the liberty to thank me for apologizing publicly, again holding me to one rule and yourself, and others of your choosing, to another, touting scripture as you go...

--

I am not angry Russ, I am again sorry that you view this all as a tirade. Disgusted is a more apt definition of how I actually feel.

[/victim mentality]

at the point Russ, where you offer a public apology for me, in whatever vague way.. indicating that I should be sorry and repent for something I have said or views that I have presented, you are essentially saying that my views and the information I have presented is in error.

I am sorry Jeanie was offended by my questions and the information I presented. However I am not sorry and neither shall I make any appearances of repenting for my views or the information I have presnted in this regard.

Let Russ himself be sorry and apologize for himself for surely I am not sorry.

Glad even for the opportunity, thank you Jeanie.

Linear, there is no law to stop people from practising a homosexual lifestyle. God has condemned it yes, but there is no society law against it. Christians (true Christians) cannot stop anybody from practising homosexuality (fornication/adultery included), as there is no "law" against it, people practise these sins "freely" unfortunately, even though they are a great offense to God Himself. Now it's gone further and it's come to the institute of "marriage". Homosexuals seek to "legitimise" their relationship in a manner that offends the very foundation and institute of marriage, because it's an affront to God. It could never legitimise their lifestyle/relationship anyway in God's eyes (we know that from scripture). And any such law should be (by true Christians at least) voted against.

You also cannot stop anybody from practising their own personal faith either. On the other side of the coin, there have been many (still are) of Christians persecuted and killed for practising their faith. Anybody in certain countries that converts to Christ can be in danger of their lives. Christians do not threaten others with the same if they practise a faith that differs from our own.

We await the time Christ comes back to reign/rule and all arguments will be put to rest. In the meantime, we pray and the gospel is being preached to all nations. As I type this, more people are being won over to Christ. Yes, there are MANY religions, but only one true God. You'd also be surprised at some of the parallels between faiths on God the Father (Creator). Unfortunately the person of God is debated between religions heavily. It is about winning souls for Christ, but you cannot win them over by persecuting/killing. It simply doesn't work (and I'm glad of it). Because God Himself gave us a free will and knowledge to seek Him.....the Holy Spirit in the end is the one who truly converts.

Of course, if a law is to be instituted that goes against the teachings of Christ, we must continue to vote against it regardless. Even if we lose, at least we stood up for what we believed in. But no, there is no law that prevents a person practising their own personal religion, as there is no society law against fornication/adultery/homosexuality.

Satan is the "prince of this world", but thankfully not for long. He is NOT the ultimate ruler, but for now it seems he rules and reigns and each one of us undergoes a continual battle daily to remain faithful to God in a world that, for the most part, does not do so. We live in the world, not in Heaven and cannot expect a Heavenly rule (as yet).

I may not have answered your question perfectly Linear, and some of why things are allowed confuses me also. But I'm more than aware we live in a sinful society and one in which tends to oppose the commandments of God, rather than upholds them. You only have to turn on your TV to figure that out!

It's a battle between what the WORLD thinks is right and wrong, and what God has told us!

Does the "unfortunately" in your statement mean you believe there should be laws against homosexuality, fornication, adultery, erotic literature and the like?


Actually, the laws in the US (I don't know about NZ) didn't really say that it had to be between one man and one woman. It had to be changed in many states to read that way after gays asked to be married and filed lawsuits when refused. Some states actually were going to issue certificates of marriage to same sex couples. So, the Defense of Marriage Act was passed by Congress, the sole purpose of which was to make it so states didn't have to recognize marriages of same-sex couples from other states.

Not in the US. However, no Christian group is even trying to, nor expressing concern that we should place limits on non-Christian religions.

Not in the US or NZ for that matter.

Not lately, but there are many religions that are all but extinct since being persecuted by Christians. Mormons, although they consider themselves Christians, were persecuted into moving out west after Joseph Smith was arrested and killed by his captors.


You say you must stand against a law that goes against the teachings of Christ, but you don't actually do that. Didn't Christ say that no one can come to the Father except through Him? Yet you don't stand or vote to remove those laws that allow teaching that Christ is not the Way or the Word. By "you" in the previous sentences I meant the Christian church that lobbys for laws against erotic literature and homosexuality.

God says to worship only Him. Maybe that is not important.

SoSick, don't pull Russ into this. You seem to feel a need to continually fight with someone... And you also seem to not be able to take what you yourself dish out when it is returned back. You got very defensive about my belief that the world has (is overall) in a state of apostasy. When offered our actual viewpoint you brushed it aside and found all the anti-Mormon rhetoric that you could muster which are blatant lies. And yes - I got ticked - royally - at one point and stated you were being a "butt" and that it was BS. (And I can find a post you stated that same word...) I have not shown you the disrespect you have me. And certainly don't deserve it. Who is doing the judging? You're the one pointing fingers at everyone else insulting us. I would honestly, if I were you, get some distance. Your BP has got to be up or something. Your sarcasm is almost funny...you definitely have some wit, but it is also hurtful. I sincerely hope you feel better. Take some valerian root or something. You are the one attacking - not the other way around.

Hello Everyone!
Let me make it perfectly clear, I quoted Scripture verses from the Holy Bible, New American Standard and King James Version. The reason? I was 'holding up the arms' of a fellow-member of this forum in her relating what 'a true Christian is'....and who will or will not enter the Kingdom of God (all scriptually based). She was trying to help another member, who disputed some Biblically based things she had posted...which turned out to be correct!

I do not intend to offend any Denomination of faith. We will all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, then we shall see how 'He separates the Sheep from the Goats'.

Let's stop this Denominational-feud, if you will. It will lead to no place....we all think our way is right! Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."
I have it together, LinearAq ....Do you? Come on, stop with the judgmental attitudes here. Russ is trying to help each and every one of us. He doesn't need our bickering back and forth on this website.
I think we ALL OWE HIM AN APOLOGY! I'm sorry, Russ, for drifting away from the Topic of this particular forum (Politics).
I stand on my beliefs! I do not try to discourage others. That is Christ Jesus' job. Thank you, Russ, for putting up with all of us 'fallen humans' "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Blessings to you and your kindnesses to us. God bless, Abishag <>< :rainbow:

Thanks Abishag for your sound post once again and also for your earlier very kind comments and backing that I found very uplifting and supportive.

You will note (and have noted), that even with quote and verse backing up statements, some people will never cease to argue for one reason or another. It wouldn't matter what was done or said I assure you. They'd be complaints and nit picking in any possible area they could find. Real or imagined (confused or misrepresented), whichever serves the purpose. I don't believe such people really want answers, I think they are looking to confirm themselves in ongoing criticism of other Christians and will never be satisifed with any answer given. In fact, in my experience, they usually wear you out and seek to have the last word, and in the end, often do. Feeding them quote and verse, even when requested, such people will still not be satiated. I brought up quote and verse because other aspects were brought into this argument. I'm finding now, that the person in question wishes to change gears a little and overlook that and get back to the "why have christians done this" or "why have Christians not done that" etc etc etc and on it goes. Believe me, you won't find such people admitting the many wonderful things Christians have done throughout the ages and continue to do to this day (charity organisations etc). Notice that this is ignored and rather fault finding is preferred at all costs? I cannot help that. Again, if such individuals feel the need to do this, they may find it more beneficial to work on themselves first.

God's word speaks volumes and perhaps such people would do well to ask Him and pray about any concerns and spend more time in His word, rather than sitting on here picking? I repeat, either one falls in line with the flawed view of the world, or they fall in line with God's word and live their own personal lives accordingly. Failures are expected, since we're human.

God said "if you love me, keep my commandments". Can any of us say we're doing this? I've failed, and there is always room for improvement. That's pretty much all I feel the need to say on the matter, since nobody says it better than God anyway. Those who find fault, can take it up with Him.

God bless.

Excuse me Jeanie, but I did not pull Russ into this. I have never once pm'd Russ complaining about the information posted or behavior of another member of this forum. Not that I have never been offended Jeanie, but I can take care of my own problems. Those I create, and even those I don't which others create for me.

To the best of my knowledge, in this instance, you pulled Russ into this.

Take your own advice please instead of just giving it to others.

And to Russ, as I did say already to you personally, I am sorry, for your sake. and I do truly mean it.

I actually am rarely sarcastic Jeanie. Though you may think I am being sarcastic, I'm not. I am simply not letting you push me around because you don't like my perspective. I'm simply being honest with you. I do not like being lied to. I do not like being treated like a dummy. I do not like being inappropriately used for a bad example of someone else's misgivings.

Find yourself a different scapegoat.

and don't talk about your religion in public if the details of it embarrass you. If you want to parade yourself and your church around as Christian, expect the same scrutiny we Christians give to all of our churches.

Ohhhh, ((( Smiles )))

I'm not really into politics that much as I think it will
all lead us to that day no matter who's elected..
It will end up as written about in the Bible..
The outcome..
And I think voteing is mostly to try to postpone..
Or change..
Whatever may come..
Or make it less worse anyway...
A person has a right to vote if they want to in this system..
However they may choose too..
Not getting into that..
But..
Was Jesus a Republician or Democrat??
He never declared he said his Kingdom was not a part of this
world.. This system..
All he talked about mostly was the Kingdom to come..
Thats what he told us to pray for to Our Father who is in Heaven.. Holy be thy name..
Holy be Your Name...
Your Kingdom come, Thy will be done..
On earth as it is in Heaven
But I was reading what Abishag wrote and..

Anyone who is serious about his religion should think it is the right one..
Otherwise, why should he/she be involved in it?
Christians are admonished:
" Make sure of all thing; hold fast to what is fine."
[ Thessalonians 5:21 ]

A person should make sure that his/hers beliefs can be supported by the Scriptures, for there is only one true faith.
Ephesians 4:5 confirms this, mentioning
" one Lord, one faith, one baptism."
Jesus did not agree with the modern, relaxed view that there are many roads, many religions, all leading to salvation.
Instead, he said: " Narrow is the gate and cramped is the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."

Matthew 7:14..
And Jesus talked about good fruits..
From their fuits you shall know them..
But Jesus also said ..
It will be the ( ones ) doing the will of My Father in Heaven..

And then Jesus goes on to say..
And then I will declare to them, I never knew you,
depart from Me , thoses working lawlessness!
Psalm( 6:8 )

But to start from Ps 1..
O Jehovah, do not rebuke me in Your anger, nor chasten me in the heat of Your fury, have mercy on me, O Jehovah for I am weak; heal me,
O Jehovah for my bones are troubled.
My soul is also greatly troubled - ,and You, O Jehovah until when?
O Jehovah, return, deliver my soul; save me for Your mercy's sake. For there is no memory of You in death; who shall give thanks to You in Sheol?
I am weary in my groaning; I shall make my bed swim in all the night; I melt my couch with my tears.
My eye is dim because of grief; it wastes away because of all my foes.

Depart from me, all you who work iniquity, for Jehovah has heard the voice of my weeping.
Jehovah has heard my plea; Jehovah will recieve my pray.
Let all my enemies be ashamed and greatly troubled; they shall turn back ashamed in a moment.

That is so deeply felt..
Isn't it..
Scripture is just so poetic...
Just adding to what Abishag posted..
Scripture is so deep...

You Take Care You All...
Lynn

Good Evening SoSick,
I truly hope you have calmed down. You may not mean to sound 'sarcastic', nor 'offensive',...but I must say, your posts come across very critical.

I want to tell you that I DO NOT GO to a church building. My reasons being illness. For you to 'point a finger' at Russ declaring that he does not attend church....may I remind you that 'The Church', is the BODY OF CHRIST..(meaning the people).

1 Corinthians Chapter 3 verse 9 tells us, "For we are God's fellow workers: you are God's field, God's building. The PEOPLE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST. THE PEOPLE ARE THE CHURCH. Jesus' followers make up the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
(vs.16) "Do you not know that you are a Temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you."

The Lord Jesus lives inside the people. NOT INSIDE A BUILDING. Scripture says God does not dwell in a building made by hands. Search your heart, please, and see if the Lord would have you to apolgize to Russ. He truly was speaking on your behalf. You should be thankful to him.

You totally misunderstood a comment (post) Russ made a few days ago about 'your apologizing and he knows you to be a good person' (I am not typing verbatum)...however he was defending you, not critcizing you. You totally missed his point. The Lord looks on the heart. I do not know Russ, personally, but in my spirit I truly believe Russ is a Christian. I am a Christian. Lynn is a Christian, yet she cannot go to a church building because of her autism children.

Who are you to judge, SoSick? Please allow the Lord Jesus to be the Judge. Let's repent and 'first take the beam out of our own eye, before casting stones at other people.'
Thank you. Blessings, Abishag <><

i live in a multi cultural community with all sorts of religions going on. i frequently use the buses and so many times people are fighting and arguing on the bus about religion, whats true whats not, its pathetic, it brings about wars. There must be a creator, you dont need to go to church to pray, our creator made us so must be very clever so must know what we are thinking, what we are going through, if we try to do right. Im sure arguing about religion is not good, no one is going to get a medal and no-one really knows what lies ahead of us.

I have already apologized to Russ, Abishag, I do believe it is suffucient.

But you bring up a good point... God does not dwell in a building made by hands...

Nonetheless, the church is so-called for a reason and if it were not for the buildings and groups of people we know as Christians that attend those buildings to fellowship, chances are excellent you nor I nor even Russ would have even ever heard the word of God to begin with.

Credit where credit is due please.

You may see me as critical, that is your choice. But I wasn't raised up to bend with every wind that blows either.

But just because you have criticised me I won't throw any bullets back at you. unless you overdo it I suppose, as others have from time to time.

In your case I will turn the other cheek for the moment. Slap again if you'd like if it makes you happy I have no idea why you are getting involved in this.

I think you should all settle down really. It truly is a shame about the spirit of dissension that inhabits this webboard. One needs to ask from time to time, what fellowship does light have with darkness?

none, none at all. No matter how hard one tries to bend it or mold it to one's own purposes the word of God is always still true to itself.

and arguing about whos religion is the best divides us, im not just talking about this forum it is happening all over the world.

dissension and hostility, beware it does not overtake you.

I would rather be known as a sheep in wolves clothing than a wolf in sheep's clothing any day, considering the day and age especially.

I guess not many here should complain that the church or america has backslidden. It's pretty obvious we're mostly made up of mush.

TO: SoSick

I honestly don't have any idea what I've done that has brought on this type of reaction from you. I am still shocked at your behavior.

I will also say that you have crossed the line on slander because you are making vague accusations in public apparently about messages I sent you in private even after having it brought to your attention.

Also, I never reposted a single picture of yours.

If you want your pictures removed, you can follow the rules and give me the post numbers and identify the specific pictures that are yours.

DO NOT give me a link to a thread because I will not parse through hundreds of posts attempting to guess which pictures are yours.



First, if you have a problem with me, you should have told me in private.

Second, I don't condemn Churches. I am sad and disappointed at their lack of adherence to scripture. Read Revelation. I'm not an outsider. I know people who currently attend Church and I speak to them regularly.

Third, I DO know these people, and the scripture says that a spiritual man judges all things. The people who repeat the "don't judge" mantra don't understand scripture on this subject. There is a difference between "judge" (discern) and "judge" (condemn). Use your Greek dictionary.

"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."
(1 Corinthians 2:15)

Fourth, I do not belittle anyone for having faith. I'm clueless as to where you got that from.

Fifth, I do not involve myself in fear mongering. I'm not sure why you are saying this. Is it because I'm a conspiratorialist? If so, you need to know that the Church is a watchman on the wall (part of the job of the Church, by the way) and I have a responsibility to notify people when trouble is coming. Well, it's coming, and there is a huge difference between what I am doing and fear mongering.

Finally:

I asked that if you had a specific accusation against me, that you bring it on and be specific about it. Instead you continue with vague, public accusations.

No, I don't currently attend church, partly because of my work schedule and partly because most modern Christian churches have gone so far astray from the Bible that it's not possible for me to participate in them. I also told you that I would like to find a good one (there are still some) and I have been looking.

I fellowship with Christians by phone and online, but I don't consider that "Church".

Basically, I'm really shocked that you are having such a horrible reaction to my honest and open disappointment of the modern Church. It seems Christ did also. Read Revelation about the apostate "churches".



If others are offended, it's their responsibility to privately notify me, and indeed, someone did. That responsibility to notify me includes you. I'm not a mind reader, so it's up to people to notify me if they are offended. Read the Terms of Use for instructions pertaining to this.



No SoSick. Actually, I've been really lenient on you, as others have pointed out. The bottom line here is that it's YOUR responsibility to notify me *privately* if you've been offended. Simple.

I'm the moderator of this forum, not a babysitter for every boo-boo that grown adults may encounter. Besides, no one dishes it out like you do. If you're going to dish it out, you need to learn to take it.



Not true, or, if it was true, and if you were offended, why didn't you notify me? The way you dish it out it's hard to understand why you get so easily offended. Really.

Actually, you've been rude on many occasions (as I'm sure many here will attest to) and I have cringed at that fact that you conduct yourself this way and then call yourself a Christian, nevertheless, I allowed it to continue in my policy and belief of basic freedom.

As a Christian, it's your duty to be mature, kind yet honest, and not to be easily offended. Also, if you have problems with my disappointment with the condition of the modern Church, then you should have told me privately. This is a violation of the same scriptures you claim to uphold.



You're absolutely right, I do have motives, and they are to treat people with a reasonable amount of dignity, even if I disagree with them. Aside from that, I'm not sure what ideas you have built up in your mind, but as you said yourself, I can't read minds.



Are you reading my posts/messages? I'm asking you to do the right thing. If you didn't want to apologize, then why didn't you just continue our private dialog and tell me why. In fact, you did, and I said I would look further into it. Ironically, AFTER I said I'd look into it, then you began this tirade. This makes no sense.

Then, suddenly, you go off on me in public. This is just plain wrong. I know you have personal life issues you're dealing with, but I still expect you to treat people properly, and in my view, you're not.



Yes you did.

You said that's what Christians are supposed to do and you know that I am a Christian.



No they are not.

Actually you should read what Christ said about the modern Church in Revelation. The modern Church *has* become worldly in many ways and this upsets and disappoints me.



I spent years in the Church, was friends with the Preacher, did Bible studies with him, and even taught Sunday school and was invited to give a sermon once (which I did). I'm not sure how this qualifies as being on the outside looking in.



I don't recall you doing any such thing except that you told me that you liked Joel Osteen and that you didn't think there was anything wrong with people being lifted up by a sermon. You also said that there are people in the Church that know about conspiracies.

What would have been helpful is that you would follow basic Christian protocol and, if you have a problem with me, come to me privately. What you have done here is wrong and very poorly handled, to say the least.



You're not listening at all.

I didn't suggest an apology because of facts. Never! I suggested an apology because of conduct.

Conduct!



No. Again, it's about conduct, not facts.



First, it would be beneficial for you to understand what the Church really is. I said that I'm not a member of a Church, meaning a congregation. In scripture there is the Church, and then there is the Bride. It would be good to know the difference. Unfortunately, many modern Christians confuse the two. Bullinger has the best commentary I've seen on the subject.

Second, it would be beneficial for you to know the scripture before you hurl it at me...

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
(Matthew 18:15-17)

Um...This scripture is talking about a "brother".

Apparently, by your judgement, I am not a brother because I don't to to church, and therefore, I don't deserve the simple benefits of this scripture verse. This is the best assessment I can make based on your statements.



I have already shown (and quote scripture) about the procedure of approaching a fellow Christian who has offended you.

YOU have not followed the procedure and then YOU accuse me of not understanding scripture.

Again, I can only assume (based on your remarks) that you don't believe that this scripture applies to me because I'm not currently attending a Church.

Are you judging? ...Condemning? What exactly are you doing?

In short, I expect that people do not slander others on this system. If they do, the victim must notify me, as is clearly stated in the Terms of Use.

You are also making vague and inaccurate public statements about me. I warned you about this in my previous response, but it continues.

I'm giving you a cooling-off period. If you want to rejoin, (although I doubt that you will have the desire), you are welcome to contact me privately in a week.

If you want to have your pictures removed, you need to follow the rules and identify the pictures by their containing post number. You can contact me via the administrator email box displayed at the bottom of this page.

i was bought up a jehovahs witness from a very young age,it is in my blood though my dad stopped when he got alzeimers, so we stopped, i was never baptised though.
A few yrs ago i started going to an evangelist church which was the best in London, so much fun.
With everything that is going on right now in the world, terrorists, wars, etc, i came to a conclusion that we are all different and have different beliefs, no-one can stop that, no matter how much people say their god is the truth, the opposition isnt listening. If you believe there is a creator, then all pathways should lead to the same one.

I'm done too Russ and the fighting gives me headaches as I've told you before, I truly hate the fighting here.

the photos in that thread, whole bunches and other stuff around. If you didn't repost them who accessed my account, and your webboard account and did? Because I deleted them from my account and cannot access them at all from my end anymore. They were reposted before you did the board upgrades so it has nothing to do with that. It's a lot of photos Russ someone really had to have made an effort if it wasn't an auto archive/reinsert thingy.

about in private Russ... I haven;t read you entire post there there sorry but I won't be able till tomorrow, well it was going well in private Russ till you made a public apology on my behalf and as I told you privately, I truly do not see that I should be required to apoligoze to jeanie for posting information or asking innocent questions, which she encouraged. She became quite hostile to me Russ, i did not start this fight. I am in a constant state of defense against accusations simply for my beliefs, which she claims to share. If she shares my beliefs why is she so angry about them?

Truly I have no idea. And why you let yourself be constantly drawn into things of this nature I have no idea either.

as far as christian goes, I think we are working on it Russ. It's not a perfect world I'd stick out quite a bit more if I were perfect.

I'm sure I would have been crucified by now in fact. Though it's been attempted here and there and failed so that should tell you something.

Well you can take credit for one thing Russ, you opened up a Politics forum. I'm sure this is only the start of many headaches for you. I don't envy the task. Politics and religion... 2 things you should never discuss at dinner.

Yah yah yah

We are all confused then, as to why your posts are so confrontational (so say the least).



I'm not sure what you mean about deleting pictures from your account. Pictures do not exist in accounts. They are placed within posts that you make.

If someone else has posted your pics, then look at the poster and give me the post number and I'll remove the pics.

Anyone has the ability to save an/or repost pictures from any place on the internet. Pictures are not protected anywhere on the internet. This is an artifact of the protocol that the internet uses and has nothing to do with this forum.

Also, there is no archive system on this forum. Posts remain where they were posted. That's all.

Also, no one has the ability to access your account unless they have the password. If you didn't give the password to someone, they don't have it.

In fact, I can't even get the password, because passwords are mangled using an industry-standard unidirectional hash and then stored so that it's virtually impossible to reverse engineer a password.

This system uses state-of-the-art password encryption and hash-storage algorithms so that I don't even have the ability to get passwords.

This is why, if you lose your password, I can't retrieve it for you. All I can do is generate a new one and then send it to you.

In short, no one accessed your account. I think you're confused about something or other.



Lesson learned, I hope.



OK, so that's what this is all about.

I didn't make an apology on your behalf. I thanked you for making one because I thought that you did. Apparently, I misunderstood a post you had made.

I was simply thanking you for it.



Again, it's not about that. It's about conduct.

If you would have read our private message, you would have seen that I was going to review the entire thread before making any other statements about it.



No.

You have had many run-ins on this system with people not because of beliefs, because of conduct.



There's nothing wrong with being angry.

She called you a censored name. I consider that an adult boo-boo. We all need to learn to take being called names without being offended by it.

There is a big difference between name-calling and slander (misrepresenting someone's character).



I have not been constantly drawn into anything. In fact, this discussion with you have been the most time-consuming things I've had to deal with for a long time.

Really not sure what you're talking about here.



Based on your previous posts, you don't consider me a Christian. As we all know, there is a big difference between being a Christian and being perfect.

There is only one perfect Person I know of. Only one.

My revolutionary idea here is that humans deserve respect even if they are not Christians. In fact, non-Christians may be impressed by our (supposed) self-control, personal peace, and even our conduct and may want to know more about how they can get some of this stuff for themselves.

This—our conduct—is normally our primary mode of witness.



All it tells me is that you've been disliked by some because of your harshness but that you were able to hold your own.

Nevertheless, some are crucified because of conduct. Others are crucified because of truth. It is better that we suffer for the latter than the former.

You have suffered because of both.



Two of the best subjects around because they are at the core of what make society work (or not).

I started these forums to help people.

That help comes in many forms, including truth (sharing what we've studied/learned), knowledge (sharing experience), admonition (by sharing conflicting ideas), rebuke (by sharing conflicting ideas, sometimes emotionally), and even love.

How revolutionary

Hey Dawn,

You said...


I understand how people can come to this conclusion, and I believe it's sad to see so many people believing different things because it divides people. I don't like division.

I think you're right. Those with opposing ideas are not listening. But why?

Can you imagine how great it would be if we all believed the same way.

For example, there are people who vehemently defend the claim that amalgam fillings are safe. Others—especially those who have experienced amalgam fillings (like me)—know very well how much they completely robbed me of my life, and that they are dangerous.

Now, people argue about this subject without end. Debates get hot and continue for long periods of time. Buy perhaps we should ask ourselves why they continue. If there is only one truth (either amalgams are safe or they are not...both cannot be true), then why do people argue about it?

I studied the Bible for years and finally concluded that it was an authentic book authored by a God who was in the process of "raising" children so they could eventually be rejoined with Him.

Many people who study the Bible conclude the same as I do. Others don't. Who is right?

The Bible says this:

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?"
(James 4:1)

Here's what I've observed.

Some people have the ability to be objective. Others don't. Those who don't, have their perception deeply colored by their own desires, "lusts" as the Bible calls them.

Some people want the Bible to be true, others don't. So now, if you separated these people into groups, you have this:

(1) Objective: Desire Bible to be true
(2) Objective: Desire Bible to be untrue
(3) Subjective: Desire Bible to be true
(4) Subjective: Desire Bible to be untrue

What I have found, is the people in groups 1, 2, and 3 become believers in the Bible. Those in group 4 do not. If you think about these observations, this is pretty revealing.

Now, to add to the complexity, most of the global media coerce the public into group 4. They do this in the following ways:

(1) Promoting the philosophy of "entitlement": "You deserve whatever you want". This causes people to move from groups 1 and 2 into group 4.

(2) Promoting subjective thinking styles through education and advertising. Subjective thinking is also known as "emotionalism". It coerces people to "feel" or to "follow your heart" to guide you in the decision making process. Some religious groups even go so far as to say that the universe is what you make of it, and that you are creating your own reality. This moves people from groups 1 and 2 to group 4.

(3) Slandering the Bible: By lying about the Bible in such a way that makes it emotionally unappealing or socially degrading, they can coerce more people from group 3 into group 4. By lying about the Bible in a way that appears objective (Discovery Channel, etc.), they can coerce people from group 1 to move to group 2. Here, they are now more easily moved to group 4. There, they won't even analyze the Bible on their own simply accepting what they've been told, and so they simply reject it without personal investigation.

(4) You dumb people down or artificially force them from groups 1 and 2 groups into groups 3 and 4 by mercury, fluoride, MSG, and other substances that disable them from maintaining their objectivity. These substances make people less intelligent and more emotional and therefore more influenceable. People in group 3 are more easily coerced into group 4.

Finally, after you've moved everyone into more subjective groups or have colored their perception through false information, you just need to discredit those in group 1 (those stubborn individuals who hold onto logic and reason regardless of how they feel or what any else thinks), because those in group 1 have the potential to be very influential.

So, after all this social manipulation is done, you end up with a small group that actually maintains little emotional bias along with the intellectual capacity to digest information.

You also end up with a majority of the population being emotionally-based and looking at those in group 1 as social misfits in some way or another.

So, what I'm saying here is that the majority of people make decisions about what they believe based on emotion, i.e. personal desire, just as the scripture says, and therefore they come to a myriad of differing conclusions about truth because truth is now (in one way or another) subject to their own desires, and desires are varied by nature.

The people in group 1 stubbornly uphold their position because they have done the homework necessary to clearly see that the Bible has astounding evidence supporting it's authenticity, but people in the other groups emotionally hold to their positions because they believe it is their right, or because they know if they let their position go, it will cause a demotion in their emotional quality of life, something they hold very dear.

Finally, the media floods the public with such vast amounts of conflicting information that many people become exhausted and give up not knowing where or how to find truth.

This is the same tactic used by those who have incessantly been poisoning us with mercury (etc.). They produce false information and then continue to flood the intellectual marketplace with lies so that people no longer even trust their own ability to draw conclusions, that is, their own common sense.

Hence, the world today:


Confusion --> Division --> Exhaustion --> Apathy


Besides the prophecies predicting the future, the Bible has internal numerology that is astounding. For those who are interested, I would read the book, "Number In Scripture" by Bullinger. It's quite amazing and not taught in most Churches today.

Christ also said that there is only One way to God, and that is through Him.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
(John 14:6)

"All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."
(John 10:8-11)

Considering the evidence He has provided, I would strongly suggest that anyone who has not done so, study the depths of the Bible and determine if it does not provide the evidence necessary to make the statements it does.

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
(Matthew 24:4-5)



The Bar Code and the Mark of the Beast

...for by your medication were all the nations deceived.

Heya Russ. Firstly, there's very little here I disagree with you about in this thread.

However...



Can you imagine how dreadful it would be? All the cultures and traditions and languages and religions and perceptions squashed for the desire of sameness. Unless I misinterpret your meaning here. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. It may seem wonderful, the idea that everyone share the same belief (are you inferring religion here?) so as to avoid holy wars and the consequent innocent lives taken as a result. But I think a world possessed of one belief would be an even greater sickness on mankind than the already existing dilemma. Novels such as 1984, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Fahrenheit 457 and even the film THX1138 immediately spring to mind. I'm talking about dystopia here. Utopian agony. Sameness.

Ultimately humans behave differently because we are different. I've never found the expression people are people to be anything further from the truth. If humans were non-theistic animals, not in the philosophical sense of the word but if it were something which never entered our minds, rest assured we'd be waging war and killing one another over other things instead. Besides which, nine nine times out of 10 wars fought in the name of religion are a mere cover up. In the time of King Henry VIII, England was trying to separate from Rome, with religion as the ultimate explanation - at the end of the day, though, this was just a facade. It wasn't about religion any more than the war in Iraq is about "liberating Iraqis".

So whether it's religion, territory, resources or something altogether different (or something pretending it's something else), humans will behave as it is in their nature to do so and the more human among us will try and impede the less human (murderers, rapists, etc.) from atrocities. But sameness worldwide is not only an impossibility but the attempt to do so is a greater violation than the bloodiest of holy wars. Just think of all the fascinating cultures in the non-industrial world -- some of which have never seen things like television or telephones (and I'm not talking 3rd world poverty here, I refer specifically to tribes in the Amazon and elsewhere) -- and how these beautiful peoples would cease to exist all in the name of sameness. All so that we can believe the same thing. One might as well say: think how great the world would be if we all listened (and only listened) to country music, or if we all had blond hair or blue eyes, etc.

I think we're coming together here beautifully!!! : ) I hope SoSick is ok, (?) but people are really talking from what I see.

Hi Jeanie, ((( Smiles )))

Ohhh.. This is a long thread..
Just scanned it but we are comeing together here and people
are talking.. Interesting but it will take time to read it all
so I'll just focus on this..
I was brought up in the Church of the Nazarenes..
But for all the years I went to Church back then..
I think I've learned more over the last past years
then I learned in all that time..
Maybe it was because I was really young or..
I'm not quite sure but..
Then I became Baptist and...
Well.. It's all been on a path that has lead to this..
But when I was sick with T and H...
I couldn't even leave the house..
And the last time I went to a Church event of recent..
It was an outdoor picnic baptism and my severe autistic child
was very very vocal and loud and...
It just didn't work out well..
But people seemed nice about it but..
But it's just to hard..
But my other child loves sunday school but it's like the basic really..
So I've been reading/ teaching her..
But.. I found this site long ago and..
It's interesting reading....

A Church Without Walls........

http://www.ptm.org/cwr/info/interviewCWR.htm

“Don't believe me – BELIEVE YOUR BIBLE – BELIEVE GOD!”

Herbert W. Armstrong, Plain Truth magazine, Sept. 1963, Personal pg.1

There are people we serve who can't find a healthy, well-balanced church close to their home.
There are people who can't, for health reasons, leave their home.
There are people who find it difficult to find or pay for transportation to get to the church they would like to attend.
I've been an ordained minister for over 30 years -- why not reach those who cannot or will not attend church in a building?

From the Plain Truth...
Note.. I do not belong to this Church....
But what they write about regarding disabled people or people who are ill...
Or the reasons one may not attend a Church..
There are people we serve who can't find a healthy, well-balanced church close to their home..
And what a Church really is..
Sitting in a building does not transform us into being Christian -- and it doesn't necessarily maintain our Christianity.

Very interesing site...
Thought I'd share it...

Take Care
Lynn

Reply to Pwcca...

You're thinking is completely reversed here. You're making a vast assumption.

Truth's Effect On Society

Believing truth does not make us robots and certainly does not make us all the same. In fact, an understanding of the Bible creates great diversity, but with peace. In fact, a common faith in the Bible would be (and eventually will be) a source of diversity—through peace—that has heretofore been unseen in the world.

If a culture believes that the world is flat, this belief is not the culture. It may be a common belief among a certain people who make up a culture, and this common belief may shape the attributes of the culture (for better or worse), but it is not the culture.

When a people believe a lie, that people are not enlightened or empowered. They are ignorant, and this ignorance stifles them in every way.

This lie then becomes a belief system—a religion—that this people will pass on to their offspring, and then eventually defend, sometimes to the death.

The answer to strife in the world is not—as Lennon mistakenly assumed—getting rid of all religions. The answer is getting rid of all lies.

Please note this important fact:

I'm not saying that we should get rid of all people who believe a lie. No. We should get rid of the lies they believe.

So, how do you we this?

Truthful, accurate, education.

There has been some division on our family lately. Some members are in disagreement about some issues of truth and it is causing strife (separation). So, a family member (who is smart) came to me a few weeks ago and said that they believed that the only reason there is separation is because we've all been exposed to different information (i.e., lies). He said that he believed that if we all had the same information, then there would be no strife. How insightful. He is right.

So he (wisely) is now participating in Biblical and world studies with Laura and I on the weekends. Our hope is that this study will grow until more of my family allows themselves to be exposed to this information. If they do, it will bring unity to the family, but will not destroy any diversity at all. It will only remove the lies and therefore remove the strife.

How does a common belief in truth enhance diversity?

How difficult is it to be diverse in a time of war? In this condition, people have to align their actions and use up their resources to fight.

Wouldn't it be better if we could use our resources freely so Bob can be a micro biologist, and Sally can be a rocket scientist, and Sara can be a musician, and Herb can go live in the woods and enjoy the beauty of the rain forest.

Wouldn't it be nice?

Diversity increases in times of economic prosperity. True freedom in peace greatly enhances diversity. Peace and unity come by knowing Truth.

Reality

The fact is, the leaders of nearly every country of the world are currently involved in a coop. This coop is called the New World Order (their own words). The Bible calls this the last world kingdom. Bible scholars call this the "Revived Roman Empire".

The implementation of the coop involves massive lies and deception in order to create division among people (One such lie is evolution). These people have to create division in order to eliminate the possibility of people working together in large groups, because if people did that, these criminals would be overthrown and tried for their crimes against humanity; A process of war called "divide and conquer".

This is the condition of the world today, and not because of religion, but because of lies: Lies, like evolution, lies like the war in Iraq, lies like fiat money, etc.

Herein lies the root problem.

Some people actually don't want the truth. Some people find that the rules put fourth by the One True God are too harsh.

No. They don't like rules like: Don't sleep with your neighbor's wife, or don't steal your neighbors money.

So, because they don't like these rules, they begin to separate themselves from truth. They stop studying Truth. They stop learning, and when they do this, they start to form all kinds of silly ideas in their heads to ease their conscience. These silly ideas are lies.

So, why don't they like truth?

Because it causes them to have to exhibit self discipline; It interferes with their lusts.

Huxley was honest about it.

"I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning, consequently assumed it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption . . The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do . . For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom."

—Aldous Huxley, "Confessions of a Professed Atheist," Report: Perspective on the News, Vol. 3, June 1966, p. 19 [grandson of evolutionist Thomas Huxley, Darwin's closest friend and promoter, and brother of evolutionist Julian Huxley. Aldous Huxley was one of the most influential liberal writers of the 20th century].

Yes, you see, the Bible had it right all along. You'd think we'd learn to listen, wouldn't you?

So where does this lead—this lust that separates us from Truth?

Slavery.

Yes, slavery.

Why do you think our rights are being taken away? Well, it's claimed they are being taken away for the preservation of freedom and security.

This logic falls flat in it's face because it's based on a lie.

We have to ask ourselves: How does losing our freedom protect our freedom?

Hmmm.

You see, when you find internal contradiction in an idea, you can begin to detect a lie.

Additionally, if people allow the government to have the power to lock people up for saying things that are "anti-American" for the purpose of preserving security, we can see that the government becomes the speech police, essentially, the thought police.

Kinda' sounds like a loss of diversity in ideas, doesn't it?

There you see the promotion of a lie which leads to a loss of diversity, which when matured, becomes slavery.

What God Wants

God wants us to be free. He taught us how to be free and how to stay free.

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
(John 8:32)

But many people aren't listening because the education system and the mass media (directed by the secret societies currently directing world affairs) are teaching lies causing division and enslaving people into false ideas, but the education system could not succeed in this endeavor if it were not for the fact that some of us want to believe these false ideas.

So, it's our own fault. The truth is available but more and more people are not bothering to take a look at it.

Sadily, you will soon see where that leads us.

Slavery.

The Answer

Courage unto purity.

It is our own desires to be immoral (lusts) that we allow to drive us away from truth. When we drift away from truth, we are no longer inclined to defend freedom. When we don't defend freedom, we fall into slavery.

If we would be willing to allow ourselves to be once again exposed to truth, giving up our lusts, we would be willing and able to work together and throw off the burdens we live under, and God would help us in this endeavor.

Unfortunately, too many continue to refuse to even consider taking control of their lives. So apathy abounds.

So here we remain.


"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."
(Revelation 3:15-16)

(Those who don't care will be rejected from the body of Christ.)


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
(1 Corinthians 12:12-27)

(We can all be unified in truth and still remain diverse.)

In other words, Russ, you think your religion is the one "true" religion and all others are false faiths which should be done away with.

What a frightening thought.

Then you believe that diversity is not a good thing and we should all think alike? Well, at least where religion is concerned.

In order to educate all our children about these Biblical truths shouldn't we change the laws so the Christian interpretation of the Bible must be taught in all schools?

I don't look at what I believe as a religion. I usually use the word "religion" to describe a man-made belief system. My belief system is what I call my "world-view".

I do this because the Bible does not contain all I know to be true.

For example, the Bible does not talk about the Motorola 68000 family of microprocessors or sound-processing technology or the "C" programming language, yet, I know a lot about these things.

But of all the information that I have accumulated and verified as true in my life, the Bible is clearly the most important information.

I am well aware that most people are quite quick to come to conclusions, but I am not this way. I have realized that of the 3 categories of knowledge in my mind (what I know to be true, what I know to be false, and what I don't know), the third category is by (very, very) far the largest.

Becoming aware of what there is to know in life is a humbling experience. I feel tiny and minute in the scope of the universe, yet I know God considers me valuable because He said so in the same Book that has astounding evidences of His authorship, plus He's participated in my life in profound ways. I don't say this lightly.

Do I believe my world view is the one true world view?

Of course. If I didn't, then I wouldn't have a world-view. Everything in my mind would be in the third category. I actually know people like this. They say that they know nothing.

But I realize that you're probably intending to ask a much more specific question, something like this:

Do I believe that the Bible is true?

Absolutely. There is ample evidence to show this, in my skeptical opinion. I would certainly not make such dogmatic statements and risk looking like a fool if I didn't have confidence in the claims of the Book.

Does this mean that other religions are not true?

This would be a nonsensical question because most religions contain 80% to 90% truth, so it's not possible to quantize this question into a "yes" or a "no".

But if you were to ask the question; Is Jesus of Nazareth who He claimed to be?

Then I would say, "Yes."

Does this imply that there are fundamental problems with other religions that deny that Christ is who He said He was (even though these other religions could be 90% true)?

Definitely.

Do I Believe that there are fundamental problems with the Bible?

No. I have read it about 10 times cover to cover, and have studied it for over 20 years and have not found any fundamental problems; A minor translation issue here or there, but no fundamental problems. I have not found another book like this.

So, the pivotal question for all humans to answer, is this:

Who is Christ?

There is no question as important and no question as revealing of who a person is.

You judge the Bible without knowing it but I serve as a witness to you that it is astounding and that it could not possibly have been written by mankind. It is full of evidence, including numeric and prophetic, that validates it's authenticity. No other book that I know of on the planet can make this claim.

Yes, I know that there is some prophecy in other places here and there, and I know that there is some gametria in other places here and there, but there is nothing I know of that is packed so completely and so self-defining as the Bible.

Truth is truth, whether we like it or not. I say, why don't we just learn to like it.

It's difficult for me to believe that you could have read my response and then come to this conclusion.

There is no diversity in truth, but knowing and living truth produces profound diversity in life.

Hello,
I totally agree with all that Russ has posted. He posted scriptures, straight out of the Bible, the Holy Word of God. He did not water it down.

Perhaps those who have further questions regarding all the 'chit-chat', would be interested in reading the below website, "Christian Apologetics and Research" , (see below).

The term 'Religion' is indeed a man-made word. There are hundreds of religions in this world.

I prefer to say that 'I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ."

This webite is most interesting and if you will read it with an open mind and open heart, the Lord through the Holy Spirit, will minister His Truth to you. As Russ stated, Jesus said, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE", "NOBODY COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME".

AMEN! "There is no diversity in truth, but knowing and living truth produces profound diversity in life."(quote from Russ).

The Bible used to be taught in our schools until our Country turned away from God, and took the Bible out of the schools.
PLease refer to this website: <www.carm.org>

Thank you,
Abishag <><

Hi So Sick ((( Smiles )))

Late last night I read this thread more in full detail..
But it seems like whatever it was came about from a misunderstanding of sorts and then took on a alife of its own..
It's seems some things may have been said in the heat of passion that should not have been said..
Maybe from perceived slights or hurt feelings or a lack of sleep or from being sick..
I have no idea not going to go there..
But I hope whatever it is can be worked out in time..
With a better understanding..
Weither in being tired or frustrated ect..
And I've had my not so good days as well..
I tire out too at times..
I'm not perfect...
It's O.K. to agree or disagree in something..
Thats not a problem here at all..
From what I've read above..

But it does say in 2 Timothy 2:24..
But a slave of (the) Lord ought not to quarrel, but to
be gental towards all. apt to teach forbearing, in meekness
teaching thoses who have opposed,
if perhapes God may give them repenetance for a full knowledge of (the) truth.

But it allso says.. 2 Timothy 2:22 But flee youthfull lusts,
and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with the (ones)
calling on the Lord out of a pure heart. But refuse the foolish
and uninstructed questionings, knowing they generate quarrels..

And I think that could be true in the frustration of trying to
carry on a conversation with someone who is uninstructed in
the fullness of the message of the Scriptures as well ...
Or the understanding of ect..
In that direction or way..

I think it is the frustration that is showing up here..
Correct me if I'm wrong..
The frustration you say you feel So Sick..
And as you wrote above..
I have already apologized to Russ..
I think thats good for some of the things that may have been
said out of frustration or misunderstanding..
At the time...
But what I'm saying here is..
How are you doing now...
Are you O.K?????
We do care about your wellbeing it has nothing to do with that..

All that I can think of now is..
1 Peter 2:6..
" Behold I lay in Zion an elect, precious stone, a Corner- foundation; and the one believeing in Him shall not be ashamed,
never!"
{ Isaiah 28:16 }

1:13 Peter: And who (is) the (one) harmimg you if you become
imitaters of the good? But if you truely suffer because of righteousness, blessed (are you).
But do not fear their fear,
nor be disturbed.
{Isaiah 8:12,13}

Seek peace and pursue it if possible..
That seems to be a good one here right now..
I hope I don't get in trouble here for this...
But I was just concerned about how So Sicks is doing...
As part of the group here...
Misunderstandings happen...
And sometimes frustrations set in as well...
But we can get beyond them..
It can be worked out....
Is it weak to be gental at times...
I don't think it is....
There can be strength in weakness too..
I hope you feel alittle better now..

You Take Care
Lynn

Oh Plus, ((( Smiles )))

Adding to that other site up above..

Gathered In His Name....

"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them"
-Jesus (Matthew 18:20)

When there is a gathering of at least two people who call on Jesus, there is a church.
The church is not a building, or a place, or an event that happens at a special time.
The church is not a thing, the church is people!

http://www.gatheredinhisname.info/

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:19-22)

Jesus proclaimed in Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them".
How simple is that? A gathering, a congregation, an assembly of two or more followers of Jesus wherever and whenever they meet with Jesus present every time.

"Jesus People Gathering". Now doesn't that more clearly define "church"

http://www.gatheredinhisname.info/ekklesia.html

"For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among you." Matthew 18:20

To help overcome loneliness, especially among those women who are unable to participate in church activities; and
To endeavor to make our community a better place for all.

Meet in small groups called circles....
I think thats a great idea for a Church to provide for people..
As they do.......
The circles meet in members' homes except in January and February when all circles meet at the church.
Additionally, they provide outreach and caring to the women of our church who are homebound or in nursing homes.

http://www.2ndpreslou.org/ministries/women.htm

Called Out ...

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession,
that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;" (1 Peter 2:9).

The church is the temple of God, meaning that God dwells in His people.
We are warned not to destroy the temple by harming or discouraging its people (1 Corinthians 3:16,17).

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-1-peter-2-9.htm

But in regard to politics...
And why we look forward to that day...
What kind of ruler will Jesus prove to be?
And is there diversity in Christ??
Yes of course..
In my beliefs which I believe to be true..
God created all sorts of different kinds of people with
different fingerprints and DNA which is unique to them..
Plus individul minds to think independently with..
The biggest change will be in sovereignity..
People will change too.. clothing themselves in
compassion, kindness..
It will be a different kind of world..
{Colossians 3:12 }

Micah 4:4: explains that in God's new world there will
be security and peace for all: There will be no one makeing them tremble..

And that will be possible through the Kingly law of love.
The supreme law that will govern all thoughts and actions..

Many people look for a President, King, Ruler on this
planet to solve all our problems with high hopes and all our problems never seem to really get fixed or better...
Yet we will follow them to the ends of the earth and get excited everytime and then eventually..
We usually end up feeling letdown when all our expectations are not being fufilled..
Or maybe most of then not being fufilled..
Or nothing changes or things get worse..
But as long as that ruler happens not to be God..
It's O.K. then I guess...

But whats to fear in this world?
Well actually alot....
Crime, violence or wickedness, sickness, pollution, hunger, poverty, death ect.. You name it..
This world is a mess...

And they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruning hooks..
Nation shall not lift up a sword against nation,
nor shall they learn war anymore..

Whats not to like about that....
You know of any politician that can deliver on that promise??

Plus.. I believe we are in the last days..
Since the restoration of Israel..
The countdown according to scripture..

Men and women...
Are spreading around the word..
The good news..
The prophesy of Joel 2:28..
And Acts 2:16..

Todays calling..
And we will be rejoiceing under Kingdom rule..
An equal inhertance..

What sort of ruler will Jesus prove to be?
When he was on earth, he displayed a deep love for people.
Jesus compassionately gave food to the hungry.
He healed the sick and restored sight to the blind,
speech to the speechless, and soundness of limb to the lame.
Jesus even brought back the dead to life!
( Matthew 15:30-38; Mark 1:34 Luke 7:11-17 )

Thoses miracles were foregleams of the marvelous things he
will yet do as King..
How wonderfull it will be to have such a beneficent ruler!
At that time the eyes of the blind one will be opened,
and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstoped.
At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does,
and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness."
{ Isaiah 35:5,6 }

Pointing ahead to that grand day,
the apostle John wrote: "I heard a loud voice from the throne say: Look!
The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples.
And God himself will be with them.
And he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.
The former things have passed away."
Revelation 21:3,4..

But first the good news has to be shared..
God instructed it to be so..
In thoses latter days..

No politician on earth can deliver that..
And there's only "a short period of time " remaining untill Armageddon, when God destroys the word system that Satan controls..

And then a new political if one wants to call it that..
Or Kingdom rule will begain..
No more sickness No more Pain No more Worries No more Tears..
Now thats happiness..

You know of any politician that can deliver that??
I think alot of people in this world are sick of politics
and polticians.. Just hopeless...
They want real change and then there is this..

So there it is....

well howdy, um, is there a politics forum on this here forum? Cuz there's a whole lotta political stuff goin down out there and it smells real bad ....
just wondrin, did I bump ma head or are those real stars y'all got there SS?
Howdy new faces an all, howzabout keepin the info flowing ,eh? Y'all can argue til the genetically modified cows come home on religion, but I gotta predilection for the sharing a suppressed information. Whatever anabody says, I believe the truth shall set you free, not pages an pages a "my god is better'n yourn"
Oh well, to each their own, meanwhile....

Cern ??? What's THAT all about?
Georgia?
Iran???
Israel?

Back off Elvis. I have a feeling you are just someone on here's alter ego and it "ain't" Elvis.

Hey Elvis
Hadn't seen ya on for awhile. How are ya?

Cern ??? What's THAT all about?
Georgia?
Iran???
Israel?
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. I heard the radio announcer talking about the Russia/georgia thing and I heard them say there were already 156 refugees so I guess they are fixing to start making use of some those concentration camps. Things seem to be moving pretty fast at this point. Don't ya think. Good to talk to ya by the way!!!
Rachel

Sorry if I spoke out of turn...Elvis - heh.

The stuff going on is indeed scary. Kind of seems like WWIII is looming.

America may be a diminishing nation but anyone who thinks that that is THE problem for events to come about has not been reading Bible Prophecy!

All, and that's all nation's that's all people have fallen short of the glory of God!
And certain event's that God fordained will come about.
It's not just about us.
But of course the character and beliefs and actions of the citizens of one's nation will be the factor in the fall decline or the prosperity of that nation!

Sorcery and Drugs In Opening The Last Days Spirit Portal - Dr Future Interview (full video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tZtw0xuO4w&feature=related

Because of our backsliding away from our God our Yeshua/Jesus into disobedence and eastern religion and the occult and greed and violence the fourth horse will be allowed to ride.
One nation under God?
What's left to protect?
We have fallen astray as a nation and now..

The pale " GREEN " horse is allowed to ride!

http://www.endtime.com/islam/

It's GREEN not pale it's Pharmakie not Socery mistranslation's of the greek word's.

One Nation Under Judgement We Have Truly Lost Our Way! Pestilence! War!

http://orbisvitae.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=64362#Post64362

We are approaching World War 3 people just don't see it yet.
What is coming upon us we all need to pray for forgiveness!

It's Time To Wake Up America And Smell The Coffee!
And to look at the events that surrounds us!
The Signs of the Times!

And a nation that poisons it's children and citizens is certainly a nation under Judgement and will be brought down this country has become so corrupted and letting and pushing it's citizen to be injected with all those known toxins "many people consider an evil thing."
We have truly lost our way.
People who have been previously vaccinated are breaking out with what at one time was called the normal illnesses of childhood and that getting them would cause natural immunity.
It has now been made into a terrible scarry foreign thing that must be fought at all cost so get your free vaccinations here
Yes, those previous vaccination doses less effective or wearing off so you need to be vaccinated and vaccinated over and over and over again or some call it poisoned and poisoned all over again.
It makes you wonder how we dealt with it in the past as children in schools came down with these childhood ailments and civilization moved on and the baby boomers are huge in numbers still and lots of them had the measles, mumps and chicken pox.
Just like what over anti-biotic use causes over vaccinations will most likely cause the same thing as well..
There will be Pestilence.
Worldwide vaccinations will probably be the propelling system that makes us all more vunerable and helps to bring it on.
The Bible does say we live in Satan's world at this time.
And look what they do to us?
The United States.
A Christian nation or a Fallen Nation.
We ARE part of the world you decide.

PESTILENCE BIBLE STUDY

http://www.christianityoasis.com/endtimes/Pestilence.htm