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Hi there all.

Ive been a regular on the forum here for a while, though i dont usually post. However im currently having huge problems with dental allergies. Last autumn i had zinc phosphate cement put in my mouth as a temporary filling, which was then topped up last may. All the while i have had terrible reactions to the material. Though the dentist insists you cant be allergic to it. Ive had test done for dental allergies and it indeed comes back im highly reactive to it, though she insists its'natural'. I have started to have replacements put in but im allergic to them also, nearly all the products with that brand name im allergic to also but my dentist insists its 'me' and im just reacting to everything. Is there a type of filling that is really less allergenic that another? So far ive had composites but no luck. I used to have beautiful teeth but they are now a mess because of dentists and its cost me a lot of money. I also have a swollen tongue and i find it really hard to swallow. Ive been chelating and its made a difference but im sure the problem lie with what is in my mouth and not the mercury.

Incidently is there a good test for heavy metals? As ive chelated forever and would like to know if its all out.

Thanks for reading.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

When you are mercury toxic, you will find you are usually hypersensitive to many more things than you might be otherwise. I found this also. You certainly do not want to put anything into your mouth that is going to cause ongoing reactions and if you reacted to the zinc phosphate, then you reacted. Your symptoms are real, not imagined. Dentists do this, as do doctors. There is no such thing as a "benign" material going into your mouth. They don't exist.

The only thing you can do, is find out through biocompatibility testing which materials come up the "least offensive". As your test showed you, the zinc phosphate cement is highly reactive with you. Enough said!

You would be wise to get a serum compatibility test done, as well as any other test and find which materials come up the least offensive in most/all tests. Out of those? You can also do a cheek and gum test (get a sample of the hardened material. composite or ceramic, bonding agent, lining agent) and try each in your mouth for a few hours eachday and check for responses.

But again, if you are mercury toxic, you will usually be more hypersensitive anyway. It makes it very hard. I personally feel cerec porcelain is a good bet, particularly if you are more reactive to composites. It is not quite like the old style porcelains and does not have a metal base. They ALL contain undesirables, so that cannot be avoided, as do lining and bonding agents.

I am sensitive myself, very much so. I had testing done. Not sure how accurate it all is, but I think it's worth doing anyway, plus I did a cheek and gum test. Bear in mind, nothing will be perfect and whilst your still toxic, it'll be even LESS ideal. Chelation takes years as well. Certain you do want to have the least reactive stuff in your mouth, but again that might not be possible if the mercury is causing your chemical sensitivity to the extreme. In some people it does this. Keep chelating and get testing done for other materials before you embark on any further replacements. What did the test say for your existing composites? Did you have them tested before you had them put in?

Teeth also undergo trauma eachtime they are subjected to all this drilling and replacing, so don't be in a hurry to get this done again. Do your homework first and chelate in the meantime. That's just my advice, it's up to you. Also you should be on a candida diet. Candida usually is a problem in toxic people, (mercury included). All pathogens are. Candida can also contribute or even cause chemical sensitivites, I've had it myself. In order to find this out, you would be wise in going on a trial diet to see if you experience the typical detox from yeast overgrowth dying.

You need to get off sugar completely (in all forms). You need to eliminate wheat and gluten out of your diet, (contained in bread/cereals/pasta etc). You would be wise in getting off milk and caffeine (both encourage candida overgrowth as well as apparently inteferring with mercury detox). You may even need to eliminate fruit, because of it's natural sugars. Though some can handle limited amounts. You would need to reduce or eliminate high carbs of all kinds, all grains and potatoes, corn, beans, peas, carrots etc.

Concentrate on consuming healthy foods that will not feed yeasts so much. Like eggs, meats (chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, etc), low carb vegetables of all kinds (raw, steamed, stir fried are the best ways to have them). Plain sugar free acidophilus yoghurt, raw nuts (almonds/brazil) raw seeds (pumpkin and sunflower) can be used as snacks. You maybe lucky and may still be able to handle some fruit and non wheat/gluten grains, but I'd be careful. Healthy fats are also very necessary as well as the proteins. Butter, lard, extra virgin olive oil, fish oil capsules (mercury free) etc. They apparently help heal us up (great for the brain).

You should also replace all the minerals/elements that mercury displaces. Mercury interfers and blocks many of the things we require for proper functioning. Selenium, iodine, magnesium, zinc etc. You also need antioxidants - vitamin C, vitamin E, selenium as mentioned, vitamin A and D (Halibut oil caps contain both naturally). I also feel that an overall mix of multi vitamins/minerals is also a good idea as a foundation supplement. I use a good quality powder mix for that (from a lab). The rest is extra additions because mercury inteferes with them so much.

In doing this, just the diet and supplements alone can cause enough detox symptoms, so if you've not done this before, you may find yourself going through die off / healing symptoms. So tread carefully and don't overdo it with high dose supplementation. Diet alone can cause enough symptoms in itself at first. It can take weeks on that diet to experience improvement. The supplements are additions to that and should help.

I would highly recommend a book that I think is almost an essential for anybody with mercury and mercury related issues "Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment" by Andrew Hall Cutler. He also has a hair testing book so you can find out how to test and see if mercury is causing problems in you. There are ways of testing, but it's not easy. mercury is notoriously difficult to test for.

Check this link out on this forum. http://herballure.com/Products/AmalgamIllness_DiagnosisAndTreatment/index.html


So though you may well need to replace your materials with less reactive ones, you may need to concentrate on getting your immunity in a healthier position, not only with chelation but with diet and supplements. It may honestly not matter which materials you get put in, you may find yourself having issues with anything right now. But in the meantime, do what you can to help your body heal. Chelation by the way can often take a few years!

What chelation protocol do you follow? It may not be effective enough, or you may not have chelated for long enough. Also symptoms usually worsen after amalgam removal (all amalgams), because not only are you exposed to more mercury in the process, but the body can begin to try and start detoxing the storage of mercury, which leads to feeling more toxic and often more reactive. Chelation and pathogen treatment are very important. Doing one without the other is probably not wise.

I hate to say it, but I think I am also having problems with my new fillings. I had the filling material itself tested on a bio-resonance machine, and it came out OK, but I wish I had done a proper serum test. For six months now, and a full 18 months post amalgam removal, I have a permanent metal taste in my mouth. I am as sure as I can be that I don't have any amalgam in my mouth - both my dentists were very thorough - and the taste goes away when I chelate with DMSA. If it was pulling mercury out of any remaining amalgam I would expect the taste to get worse when I chelate with DMSA. So I conclude that the taste may either be me detoxing mercury (or lead, according to my hair analysis, which has gone up), or it is some sort of reaction to the fillings or fillers, or cement, etc. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So I am gearing up to do a serum compatability test from Clifford, to find out WHAT it is, because it is driving me crazy. Also, I have gone downhill again in the last few months, and I want to find out why. I can't face the thought of having all my fillings done again, but I really want to get well.

I really thought I'd covered this one off, but I'm having serious doubts now. When will this whole thing end? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Nicola

Hi Nicola, I'm very sorry to hear this....but to me? I can't quite see how composites or even the stuff bonding them to the tooth would cause this ongoing metal taste. Did the dentists cure them properly? make sure they are well cured into the tooth, so there is no leakage?

The other thing of course is the fact mercury can start to detox from anywhere and everywhere and that includes tubules and jawbone etc. Mercury can begin to migrate and shift and start to come out. It is a nasty time when any stored mercury starts to come loose and you get ill all over again, but usually worse than you felt WITH amalgams. because it's exaggerated when your body is detoxing the stuff.

This may well be what is taking place and the fact the levels have gone up in your hair, may indicate you're dumping mercury/lead. That is what you WANT to happen. My doctor here wanted my levels to go up, he was very concerned that they were so low because it indicated retention toxicity and I was just not eliminating it properly. This is what they try and achieve, increased levels to show the stuff is coming out of you...

I would still get the serum test done anyway to give yourself a good base to work from for the future, should you decide to change your dental materials. I did a few times, but frankly I don't think it really made much difference. I thought it was them and really it was mercury coming out. But you don't always know that and sometimes it can be reactions. If the serum test indicates that any of the materials you have are "not suitable", then sure you could eventually embark on a replacement with a material that is less reactive.

But I would personally put a bet on the mercury coming out. Mine started to really come out about a year and a half post amalgam removal.....if that's any consolation and that's when the sh*t hit the fan and when I panicked and had replacements of composites and all sorts of things done. I didn't know what was happening to me! Nobody told me about the second phase of suffering, which occurs anytime post amalgam removal. Some get it early, some get it late. Typically it's about 6 months post removal. Mine was a year and a half later if I think back. I had my last amalgams out in about mid 1997....and got ill early 1999 and suffered horribly. Metal taste? OHHHHH YES and add metal smell to that too. I also had a swollen tongue too with the typical indentations from pushing against my teeth. This is a mercury symptom also, it's spoken about one a dental website. They call it "scalloped edges" (in the tongue).

So Nicola, just remember that I went through all this too and did quite a few replacements because everything just got so much worse and about the same time frame as yourself! If I had known it was all mercury? I'd have just kept on chelating!!! If you do have fears about those materials? The serum test should give you some indication and I don't think any materials are ideal anyway. They all contain their own chemicals etc. But if it puts your mind more at rest to get something that is more suitable, that is an option. But don't rush in. Just consider what might actually be happening here first and I would keep chelating personally.

Do you know what materials were used in your mouth? I'd be interested to know. I am very reactive, so I'd like to have a look on my own serum form. I'm quite familiar with quite a few different ones now.

Hi Bex

thanks for responding. You're right - it is unlikely that the metal taste comes from my new fillings, as I have been assured that they are metal-free (the filling is Luxacor - if you're interested - no idea about the fillers and cement etc). And yet ... this metal taste is driving me mad, and making me very paranoid. It came on at the end of Summer 2007, about two months after I'd had the new fillings put in, and also after I had been chelating steadily with DMSA for four months.

First of all I thought it was the DMSA stirring up metals, but the taste still continues after a two week break from chelation. Then I thought it was generally high levels of metal in my body that are being detoxed due to the freeing up of retention toxicity. Then I saw from my most recent hair analysis that my lead has gone up, so the DMSA is pulling that now. Lead can also give a metal taste, and takes longer to chelate. The taste has gone on for so long now and to some extent I have got used to it, but sometimes I catch myself and think 'are you crazy? it must be due to SOMETHING'. And then I come back to the fillings.

I have posted on FDC about it, and nobody else has it. If it was high metals wouldn't other people have it? I have even emailed Andy Cutler about it, and he came back with the old 'are you sure you don't still have amalgams in your mouth?' I am as sure as I can be, and can contact my dentist to get a copy of my panoramic Xray to check. In any case, it wouldn't explain why the taste goes away when chelating, and come back afterwards. If it was pulling metal from any remaining filling, it would get worse DURING chelation, I figure.

You are the only other person I have heard of having this. I had a pronounced six month dump, and felt lousy until I was 12 months post amalgam removal. Then a short time feeling better, and now feeling crappy again, like I'm regressing. I have of course been doing other things, like getting methylation going with folinic acid and B12: this apparently can give a metal taste, but then I had it before I took the methylation supplements, so that's not it.

It is a mystery. In my heart I believe it is the metals coming out, but a small part of me feels the need to get the fillings checked, to lay my mind at rest, and to ensure that I really am not going backwards, simply detoxing very slowly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Good to hear your experience though, and to know that I am not alone. I have to say that this metal taste is the only aspect of this illness which I can definitely put down to metals - otherwise I would think I am going mad. Did the taste eventually go?

Best
Nicola

Hi Nicola, you're welcome! well...there is always a possibility I guess that it "could" be some kind of metal from some material you have in there. All of them contain metals anyway, to some degree. There is actually no such thing as a metal free material, becaue they're all made up of these elements. But it is not like amalgams! So that's what makes me wonder what's actually going on here....

I looked up your material in my serum test book and it showed "suitable" for me (and I am metal sensitive and chemically sensitive too). But that may mean nothing because everybody is different. Can you please find out which bonding and lining agents they used? This is necessary. It is always "possible" that one of them maybe a problem. Some materials - glass ionomers can contain metal salts like lead, arsenic etc. Obviously in small amounts, we're not talking amalgams here, BUT this may pose a problem if they happen to leak more.

I think that you need to find out what they are. Then I think you're wise getting a serum test done and if you do decide to place them at some point in the future, even if you find it doesn't help. It will at least be something you can eliminate from the possibilities of what's happening here. Because you are getting this metal taste chronically, rather than intermittently. I don't think I had it as bad as you did. I had it though. And I had more of it when I was excreting the metals, so at times it can drive you nuts. You are literally tasting metals.

Do you find that after exercise/sweating that you can smell some metal on your clothes at all? because that was another way my body tried to get it out of me. Also, people experience different things with mercury/lead and what you experience, may not be what someone else does. I found that and I used to get upset by it because I didn't understand what was happening to me. I used to cry and salivate uncontrollably and many times a day, most days and nobody I knew had that. Yet a doctor I got in touch with, experienced in mercury understood it immediately and said it's classic mercury poisoning and I was obviously a very bad case and my body could not handle or excrete it properly.

So you got hit with a dump at six months post removal and felt lousy for...another six months, started feeling better and now regressing again. Well, it could be that your body had a dump, had awhile of improvement and has decided to start dumping more of it. Reason I say this is, there is no way you would dump the metals out in six months, so maybe more of those metals has arisen to the surface after a break. These things can happen. There really is no one pattern of how your body will dump storage, because sometimes you think you're ok again and wham, you git hit again later on.

Yeah the taste did eventually go, but it came on and off too. I would get the names of the bonding and lining agents, because I'll be interested to hear what they are. This is necessary and they should be able to tell you this. You have a right to know every product that's been placed in your mouth and if you do decide to get these removed later on, make sure you know every product that is going to go in first.

I doubt it would be leftover amalgam, but it's always possible. When I had my composites redone recently in cerec porcelain, the dentist found a bit of amalgam under one of them...so I was surprised. Considering nobody mentioned this when they saw my panoramic xray. Obvoiusly it was miniscule enough that it didn't show up too well.

This is really frustrating for you, but I do know how this feels. It is very confusing when you get amalgams out, get new materials and then get hit later on and you have no idea if they are to blame or it's just stored metals erupting slowly out of you and making you sick (repoisoned basically).

can't tell you how many times I have heard that line from a dentist. They must use it everyday on someone.

I have had allergies since I was a little kid, pretty sure since before i had any fillings. how many times I was kept home from kindergarten with swollen eyelids... so I am not real sure you can always blame it on fillings but certainly they don't help the situation.

There's nothing natural about methacrylates, the base of most all dental composite materials. And most composite materials are also manufactured to slowly leech flouride which is added to them also. I guess that is suppose to protect the composite while it erodes the calcium from the rest of your teeth and bones.

Dentists really are not very well educated sad to say. Very few of them seem to actually know the chemistry of the materials they work with and somewhere along the way it seems they were taught to assume no one else knows either. If someone made coffee cups out the same material they make composite fillings out they would be declared illegal.. due to baruim or thallium, or flouride.. whatever... and then also there's the swift business move that outsources so much plastic manufacturing to places like china... including dental composite materials... and of course lead has been found in a good number of those plastics coming from china, including dental materials...

anyway, you get the picture. talking to dentists about it has never brought an acceptable resolution for me. generally they will deny anything and everything.

Bex

I have just found out the names of the fillers and cements used in my new fillings, and wondered whether you could look them up in your book? Knowing that Luxacor is OK for you is useful for me to know, and kind of puts my mind at rest on that one - I think we are both pretty sensitive.

Anyway the names are (and I don't know what is what...)

Filtek
Estelite
Rotemp

I would really appreciate any info you've got on that lot.

thanks

Nicola <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi Nicola,

Well, the problem with "filtek" is that there is more than one name like this. I am not suitable to most of them except "one". So not sure what filtek you have. The ones listed are by a company called - 3M ESPE Premier:
Filtek A-110 (this is the only one I tested "suitable" for).
Filtek Flow
Filtek P-60
Filtek supreme universal
Filtek Z250

I had filtek supreme and got them removed. But haven't noticed any difference! They've been out for months now too. So though they show unsuitable on my test, the removal certainly hasn't appeared to have done much (unless of course I had them in for so long, it's permanent damage?). I don't know.

the other two materials you've mentioned are not mentioned in my listing of dental materials. Either there is more to the names, or they're just not on the list. The list contains almost all materials, but sometimes there might be a few that are not there.

Your wisest bet in my personal opinion is to get yourself a serum test done. You can mention the extra materials you wish to best tested for (the ones you already have), so they will make sure it's on the list, as well as all the test they generally give. You can then really find out whether any of them maybe posing an issue with your immune system. Again I do not know how accurate these serum tests are.

That's what I would do. You can also have any other tests as well by other means as an additon like EAV testing (voll testing), or other ways. But sometimes you get contradictory results, which is why I work from the serum test and then go from there. If one test says I'm ok, but the serum tests says I'm not, I won't have it.

Check out this recent link http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/sh...&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I'm sorry that this is happening to you and I know exactly how it feels and how much I went through tearing my hair out and wondering what my "new" materials might have been doing. So yeah I got them redone a few times actually, but never had the serum test then. I also had the wrong people on machines who weren't even trained properly. So they also stuffed things around. Then I'd get someone else who would give a different answer.

That's why I think serum testing is a good foundation to work from and THEN seek second opinions on other testings, but make sure the person knows what they are doing. E.g. has been doing it for sometime, experienced and reputable.

thanks Bex. I really appreciate your help and advice with this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/orangebloom.gif" alt="" />

Nicola

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You're welcome Nicola.

Unbelievable The two permanents i have in my mouth are filtek solirene. On my test i was highly reactive to 7 of the 8 things i was tested for, that were filtek. but my dentist still put them in. Avoid this brand is what i say no matter what they tell you. Im actually going to see another dentist, to hell with the one im at. Since ive had the filtek in, my ears have swollen up and ive had problems swallowing but still she says go for some therapy. I really do think dentists simply ignore their patients or fail to believe them. Can anyone recommend a brand that is known for high compatibility? Ive heard Admira are quite good? Also what do people think to Glass Ionomers?

Stuart