News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Hi,

I will be helping Russ out by modding this section of the forum. The main reason for a new mod is because of all the tiffs that are going on here.

I am going to try and bring some order to this forum to be more on the discussion of creation and evolution, on a more level playing field. One that is not full of mines (bombs) that are ready to explode if someone dares challenge a particular theory or belief.

First off, I ask that when posting. Read your post before you hit the submit button. Ask yourself these things.

1) Did I over react to what someone else said?
2) Will what I say make the other person mad?
3) As a Christian, am I reacting in a way that is pleasing to God. And a good representation of Christ?
4) As a evolutionist (a person who believes in evolution theory), are my answers scientific, or are they personal attacks on what I choose not to believe? Which by the way, does nothing to prove anything that deals with science.

Now I realize that people do get over heated while debating. All I ask is that if your post is going to stir up trouble, then wait on posting it until you cool down. Posting mad does nothing for either side.

Rules will be coming later. If you have questions you can ask them while this thread is open for them. I know the change here will be for the better.

God bless,
ikester7579

WHAT

I think you should start by asking yourself how many of your own posts here meet the standards listed above. Or maybe someone else could help you.

So the person who tells me: "I'm waiting for you to start acting like an adult. But we all know that's impossible"

Now wants to moderate my posts. Which includes the above on the list -- "As a evolutionist (a person who believes in evolution theory), are my answers scientific, or are they personal attacks on what I choose not to believe? Which by the way, does nothing to prove anything that deals with science."

Though more posts containing video links of nutters claiming evolution made them maim, murder etc are going to be perfectly acceptible.

It's too funny.

I was not a mod then. And Russ already knew what I was doing and why. If you have a problem with wait and see, you don't have to wait. No one is forcing you to stay.

Pwcca, I deleted your posts for the reason you are trying to start an arguement. If you don't like me being mod, no one is holding you from leaving. But if you want to go out in the glory that most evolutionist do. Make another smart remark.

Disrespect for the forum mod will get you banned at any forum.

Keep it up, you are on the fast track to a ban.

What about people who don't fall under either category?

Blessed be.

Then what would you be doing in a forum where you do not fall under either category?

PW...

Let's just be sure we're not wasting time. I know ike is not too patient and does not know if you are joking or just wasting time.

For example, they might be an Islamic creationist here to discuss the topic. My point, whether deemed trivial or not, is that creationism does not equal Christian. One could very well be a Hindu and argue against evolution.

There is also the fact that some posters are both Christian and evolutionists, which makes separating them into two separate categories with two separate criterias for posting somewhat ambiguous.

As an aside note, I am reminded, Forum Moderater ikester7579, that you once questioned the very presence of evolutionist posters altogether. It is with great relief that I see you no longer view this as a creation only forum.

Hey there, Russ. It's a lower case 'w' since the name Pwcca is a Welsh name and not an acronym.

Having said that, I am entirely serious and not in the least bit joking. Having read a fair few articles on the subject of creationism, I know full well that it serves as an umbrella for multiple religions. Therefore, designating posting criteria to Christians and evolutionists alone (separate criteria no less, despite that the two do not oppose one another) omits all others from posting. I have read Islamic creationist sites, for example, and I see no reason why such a person might not want to post here. Up until the point at which they see the posting guidelines don't have any leeway for them or other religions.

I not only like to debate evolution. But sometimes I debate into the actual mind of the evolutionist. That's why I started a thread asking all evolutionists: Why are you here? It was not because I did not want you guys here, it is because I wanted to see what the answers would be.



Well, we can't accommodate everyone in every aspect of it. But I have no problem if they want to debate creation or evolution. As long as they don't start preaching and teaching their proclaimed god such as Allah.



I have no problem with that. But I also know that some evolutionists will choose that view for confusion of believers when it's not what they really believe. There are ways to test someone to see if they are evolutionist under a false world view.

In fact, I will probably do a thread on why theistic evolution is wrong, and how much of evolution the Bible actually supports.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that no assertion

Since you think you have to try out my modding, by making snide reamrks, to see what you can get by with. I'm only going to list this one section of your post and I'm going to delete your whole post so that you can start over.

If you cannot post without making such comments while asking legit questions. Then your posts will be deleted every time, and your questions will not be answered.

I doubt that either Russ or I will have a problem with other religion creation views as long as they don't start preaching their god.

I also know that some evolutionists will use this as a false world view to confuse Christians. So since you bring it up and are so worried about this. What do you believe about the creation and evolution subject? And what religion, if any, do you belong to?

That makes perfect sense regarding not preaching one's god(s). I am pleased to know that all posters, including Christians, must refrain from preaching here. Thanks for the verification.



Some may very well at that. However, as you know not all evolutionists are bad people. Conversely, some Christians may use a false world view or even a misunderstanding of their own faith to confuse other people as well. All things being equal, it works both ways.



I'll happily engage in evolution and creation discussions in the appropriate thread so as not to derail this one -- it's clear to me what the heart of this thread is about and I don't wish to disrupt it from its intent.

As to my personal beliefs, I don't feel they are necessary to conversations here. To me, proving or disproving evolution is in no way connected to what I believe about the origin of life, so I have no reason to bring them up. In the simplest terms I practice a form of witchcraft and was raised in the tradition by both my parents. However, witchcraft is just a word and as such can take on an endless array of definitions. Where some might see the term as heathonistic, others will see it as naturalistic. The name, itself, is quite irrelevant as different people will connote the word differently. Having said that, the length and breadth of my personal faith is not something I feel comfortable divulging in detail here, though I appreciate your taking the interest to ask.

Blessed be.

Thanks ikester, for the reply.

It seems we have a communication problem here, as no snide remarks were made, or at least not intended that way. I am asking what I feel are serious questions and I am looking for guidance so that I don't inadvertently cross your guidelines.

To me, your deleting the whole post appears to be an emotional response to a valid set of questions, and I don't understand why. You even seem to agree that the rest of the deleted post questions were valid when you say:

It would seem that I have posted a "mine," but I still don't know what it is. The "Elvis Lives" is/was supposed to be, is/was intended to be, a harmless analogy that is not associated either with "creationist" or "evolutionist" concepts, so that these types of issues can be addressed without emotional content.

You are setting a new standard and I am trying to understand it.



I used to close with this paragraph when I first started posting here, and it still holds true:
Note: my time is limited, so I only choose threads of particular interest to me and I cannot guarantee a reply to all responses (particularly if they do not discuss the issue/s), and I expect other people to do the same. Thank you for your consideration.

I am here to discuss issues, and I do not intend to make people mad or upset, but I understand that this happens. When dealing with the truth it tends to happen, no matter what your beliefs are.

The only thing I would recommend is that when you are mad/upset that you put it aside and look at the post again later, and see if it is the material presented that is making you mad/upset or is it comments made by the poster.

Enjoy.

Thou shall not suffer a witch to live. (Maleficos non patieris vivere.)
Exodus 22:18 in the Hebrew Bible

All righty then..

Uh - Pwcca, is this disturbing to you? Cause it is me!

We have discussed briefly your religion before. I know it doesn't always mean evil... I mean, you know I think you are barking up the wrong tree. The truth is at some point those who are wicked - I'm talking - WICKED - will be wiped from the face of the earth. Yes - and then we will have our millenial reign with Jesus the Christ ruling. But the jury is still out on just WHO will be damned and sent to spirit prison to await the day of judgment yet still have a chance to have to truth taught to him...and there will be those who will be allowed to either be resurrected or allowed to live and be "twinkled" and changed from a tellestial to a terrestrial state for that time period. And don't worry, during that time satan will be bound and ALL evil will be bound (not there) for that period of 1000 years...

I don't think the original witch burners really had the authority to do that in the first place. I don't know - maybe it was the law somewhere?? I know they got carried away and killed a lot of innocent people here in America at least in the 145h and 15th centuries if I have the time period right. I think maybe that is a bit of a harsh judgment to make. And I imagine that Pwcca would feel kind of hurt by it. I don't know...Pwcca?

I find that number 1 is very reasonable.

Number 2 can be difficult to judge, since some of the contentions on the evolutionists side will directly oppose the literalist interpretation of the Bible (Billions of years, for example) and could incite anger simply by being expressed and supported by the current scientific evidence. Is the judgement on a particular post going to be based on the reaction of the person responded to by the post, or is there some particular criteria that you will use?

When taking number 3 and number 4 together, it seems that you are saying that the Christian posters are not required to provide scientific answers. If this is so...why are Christians not held to the standards of evidence that the evolutionists are?

I do like the fact that you plan on holding the Christians to the standards of being good representatives of Christ. Now we will see what you believe a good representative of Christ should and should not do.


I guess that depends on the rules and the stringency in which they are enforced.

What you are trying to imply is there is good magic (white magic or white witch) and bad magic (black magic or black witch). But just so we settle this so that no one miss-understands, I ask a simple question.

Where does white and black magic come from? The same source. So how do you take what is considrered pure evil and make it look good then associate God with it?

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

So light does not make evil good. It is just a mask of what is really on the inside.

Because we live under another covenant, not everything applies.

Example: Do you know why there was so much violence in the old testiment? It was because no one went to hell in the old OT. So punishment for sin was carried out here on earth. So evil was punished with death.

Today, because Christ took the keys of death, hell, and the grave. When people die, they go straight to where they are supposed to which means the punishment for evil-sin is after death not before it. This is what Christ reversed when He died and rose from the dead. This is also why the Lord also said: Vengence is mine saith the Lord. This is because vengence is to no longer be taken out on earth.

So what happened to people when they died in the OT?

Deut 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

2 Sam 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 1:21 Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

Sleeping with the fathers is considered soul sleep. Your soul did not leave earth. It stayed in the ground with your body.

This is also why people were rewarded with things from Heaven more in the OT than the NT because no one went to heaven after they died in the OT.

If the new rules are to contain a "respect clause", I request that care be taken in the phrasing. It will be impossible to comply with a rule if it requires one to actually respect a coward.

Who is the coward? People who act a certain way?

Some define black magick as the intent to inflict harm on others and, according to the same belief system, it doesn't work - it karmically backfires on them, yielding no damage to the intended target. Thus indicating, at least to those who follow this line of thinking, there is no such thing as "black" magick whatsoever.

However, the word magick, much as I indicated with the word witchcraft, is simply a word. Just as the word fair has numerous meanings, so too does magick. In my view, life is magick. I have a few plants at home which I tend to frequently and the simplest things about life can amaze me. Watching my plants grow and flourish when watered properly, or how they bend towards the light. To me, this is magick (other people might simply call it gardening but we use words to convey emotion and that's the point I'm trying to make here). But I also consider the invocation of one's god or gods to be magick, by definition (my definition). Thus, prayer is magick. Thus, being Christian is no less "magick" than any other religion. Indeed, there are multiple pagan aspects of Christianity (such as the reverence of saints, the holy trinity and even simple acts such as the lighting of a candle).

Performing witchcraft, performing rituals, are a psychological way of reinforcing what one believes, a way of solidifying one's feelings. If I believe the rock in my hand represents my relationship with the land, and if I then plant that rock in a place which is special (sacred) to me, I am simply reinforcing this belief, this bond. There's nothing black -- or for that matter white -- about it. Arguably speaking, I don't even have to use the word witchcraft to describe such acts. I could very well call it psychological ceremony. But one has to appreciate the use of power words. Look at the level of vehemence and emotion which some respond to when the word witch or magick is used. To me, this is also magick (or some could just call it emotion - I prefer the more poetic route).



If by God you mean the Christian god, that cannot enter into the picture for a practitioner who does not share the same faith as you. It's like calling a Wiccan a Satan worshipper when they don't even acknowledge the existence of Satan to believe in him in the first place. But, all things being equal, just as someone might see these people as Satanic, there's nothing stopping them from seeing the other person as the Satanic one. For example, crusader knights in Medieval Europe called their arabic enemies barbarians. Ironically, the arabs called their European enemies barbarians as well.

I don't have to actually respect someone in order to treat them with respect. Are you saying that even though you are a follower of Christ, you cannot treat people with respect regardless of your belief that they are not worthy of respect?

What happened to walking in the Spirit?

What happened to treating others how you would like to be treated?

It seems that the requirements of the claimed Leader of the creationist camp are difficult for His followers to maintain. I thought that was the reason for the Spirit, to give us power to overcome the things of this world, like the desire to repay unkindness with unkindness.

Can you not tap into the power of the Spirit?

On another note, please define the parameters of a coward as it pertains to the Creation vs Evolution forum.

Thanks in advance

The coward is but one example. There are other types of people who make it impossible for anyone to actually respect them, although they usually boil down to one variety of coward or another.

My point is just that a requirement to actually respect is unreasonable. That's all. Respect is not a matter of choice. One cannot honestly choose whom one shall or shall not respect.
One can feign all sorts of things.

Well CTD,

I fully agree with you. Respect is earned.

The only quibble I have is that this is a bit of a red herring, as we don't have to respect anyone to present an argument in the most civil, mature, reasonable, and honest way you know how. How you respond should not be predicated on who the other person is, but what the argument is.

If the argument is well made, you can reply in a civil, mature, reasonable and honest manner to the argument.

If the argument is not well made, you can pick out any bits that are worth responding to, in a civil, mature, reasonable and honest manner, and disregard the rest.

Enjoy.

With God all things are possible.

The requirement is to treat others with respect, not to actually respect them.

Does this mean you feel that Christ's commandment to treat others with respect is unreasonable?

Since you despise cowards and cowardly behavior, perhaps you could be brave enough to describe what you consider cowardly behavior in the creation vs Evolution forum.


It looks like you're saying you believe that treating someone the way you would like to be treated even though you don't respect them is some sort of deception.
Do you believe the Golden Rule is conditional in that it only applies to those you respect? OR...
Do you think that Christ wanted you to do something deceptive when He stated that you should do unto others that which you would have them do unto you?

Or is it that you truly don't give a hoot about what Christ wants you to do?

I would like to state that I believe in people...and much much more often than not that belief has proved to effect more change than otherwise..... None of us are perfect. Anyone on here has at one time been disillusioned, confused, acted in some way we later regret to one degree or another. I certainly have.

I noted in the chit chat portion you created, CTD, that one of the students I had for a couple months straight last year was very responsive to me... He is experimenting with pot - not sure what else. My heart goes out to him cause I see what a good heart he has. He's honest hearted and loving...but his father is in prison for something drug related. I listened when he talked, loved him and he knew it. He flunked last year but proudly came up to me yesterday and told me he had gotten all 100's (cause he's now applying himself and growing up!!!) I was so happy to see him and hugged him. It makes what I do worthwhile... Our Father in Heaven and Jesus the Christ love us unconditionally beyond what we comprehend. They know all of our true worth. They aren't going to punish us...our actions punish us. We just won't be able to live in their presence in the hereafter if we aren't worthy and even now, we can't enjoy the constant companionship of the holy ghost which teaches us and gives us peace, guidance and true joy when unworthy. Love is of God... You seem to mistakenly be putting your loyalty to the commandments ahead of the greatest and first commandment which is to LOVE thy neighbor as thyself. Love, my friend, is what we are here to learn!!! No doubt God appreciates your loyalty, but you are missing the mark if you take that attitude. I really don't see others as the enemy... I know there is evil out there.... I know there is evil in high places, but fear casts out light.

I am certainly not perfect. I'm dealing with forgiving my SIL right now for judging me quite harshly and WRONGLY. But Christ practiced magnanimity...which is to love even when we ourselves are being wronged....

Once I had a bi-polar friend treat me like...well...like she was a maniac. It was completely unfair although I understood where the misunderstanding came from. I prayed and prayed after literally shaking like a leaf for days. I not only was her neighbor, our kids went to seminary together, were friends and we went to the same church. The Lord opened my eyes to understand her and it melted me... One day in church I followed the promptings of the spirit when I saw her in the bathroom at church and just went up and put my hand on her shoulder lightly and told her I was sorry. It broke through! It still took time, but we made peace. It healed us... Kind of unrelated, but trying to get a point across....

My family/relatives have a history of intolerance and giving people the cold treatment... My father, the youngest of 11 kids was being given that when he suddenly died at 38...this 3 years after and aunt was being shunned.. My dad who was a fireman/paramedic picked her up in the ambulance. She was buried on my 9th bd. (My dad died shortly after I turned 12). We are liable for how we treat others no matter how worthy they may feel they are or regard them.

I cannot even believe that woman was allowed to state what she did after Pwcca said what he did..... Ikester, Russ, CTD?????? Where did she even come from? What is wrong with you guys? I'm sorry....I'm losing respect for YOU.

Sorry about the strong ending....just trying to make a point. If that lady was somehow disciplined I apologize.... It just seems things are heading to really be about what offends YOU guys... Apparently there are some private convo's going on. I've never been one to take being controlled lying down. Not when I feel or believe strongly in something and, no matter how strong you may feel against evolution itself, you just can't judge everyone that way. These guys I knew in my reserve unit who also did were highly moral people.... (And what if someone isn't? You guys perfect that way??? Have you always been and what if you were??? Ever heard the parable of the prodigal son??) I really would like some clarification as well on what you constitute as earning respect. How about being a fellow human being??

Seriously, Linear has made some good points as has RAZD....

Sheesh - how would you feel if someone told you by virtue of your beliefs you should be dead??? OH, - maybe these New World Order folks have??? How does that make you feel? I'm sure I've stepped on some toes being LDS, too.

Russ, I know you aren't feeling well and may not even have been on lately. I haven't seen you much....

BTW, on the above post about my dad and aunt, they were both unique and lovely people but beaten down by life. Their family was manipulated by my oldest rather mean spirited aunt who didn't like my mom and they were jealous of my aunt who was very pretty... They considered both high maintenance. I've been thinking about my dad a lot lately even though I didn't know him long. I learned some serious life lessons observing these things. Now THEY have to live with how they were to them before they died. The deceased aunt had a twin who use to go to her grave site regularly and was heart broken. And daddy was their baby brother.... They had signed him away to the army when he was only 17 because their parents had both died by the time he was 11. He dealt with the horrors of war at a very tender age. (And was a hero I might add...)

I know this is Russ's forum... and I don't want to leave it (although may've crossed a line now). Perhaps it is the mother in me coming out.... Life is too short and we are all too precious.... ALL of us.

Generally I like to let sleeping dogs lie and leave dead horses unbeaten. But what particularly irked me in the now bygone era of this forum was when one poster routinely called another names such as pig, filth and idiot. This was permitted as a regular course, even after complaints were openly stated.

I'm rather hoping the new policy in moderating will place a greater emphasis on disallowing flames and less emphasis on deleting threads over minutiae of trivia.

Time will tell (if it hasn't already).

Oh? Have the rules been published then? I missed them.

I hardly consider such to require bravery.

Do you think I've indicated any desire to play games and treat serious matters as if they were trivial?
I truly don't give a hoot about what you want me to do.

That is big of you Pwcca.. I'll let it go, too, then. That really bothered me, though. I'm glad you're ok (?). I do not think that kind of thinking is typical.... And Ikester was waiting for Russ, haven't seen him on and that lady (?) (man?) disappeared. So thanks and I stand corrected by the very one I was trying to defend which speaks volumes of your heart!! Honestly I couldn't believe it was said. I've never witnessed such a thing. I never saw the pig, filth, thing.... That would offend me seeing that as well, but its a reflection on whoever said it if anything. I just think the idea ought to be just keeping it respectful so maybe that is what this will be about. Personally I told Linda Lou to bite me one day when I was ticked. (I just found out I was having PMS....my hormones have been out of whack). But the truth is I love her!! We've gone back and forth a bit, but you kind of grow fond in doing so. I do at least!! I really have no ill feelings toward anyone on here..but I suppose I am a fighter. (Obviously). So I'm sorry (again) for those times I've gotten a bit heated.... I've had no sex drive either and could likely do for a little spanking.....(play on words : ) (I'm married!!!!!) Sheesh...I feel bad for those trying to be celibate...(even though I haven't been interested much). It does mellow one : ) And of course the mercury monster in most of us certainly affects us.... Heaven help the one who even opens such a forum.... (Sorry Russ.....I love you!!!!) I know - should've put it aside and thought about it.....then I'd never say anything, though : ) Sheesh - where's y'all's senses of humor?? I just heard from a friend it is fall in Alaska. It made me so homesick for there....

There was a time, Jeanie, when people could make posts anonymously. And one poster in particular liked to take advantage of this, using it as a means of taking potshots at other posters and wiping her hands of the guilt. It was really out of control and I'm thankful Russ disallowed anonymous posting.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the heated debate atmosphere of this forum. So I don't see that as anything which requires an update in moderating. I simply believe blatantly offensive posts (i.e., name calling) should be dealt with. Quibbling over whether someone's post conveyed a vague hint of snideness or not is hardly something I would consider in need of moderating.

As it stands now, there is inconsistancy in the choice of deleting posts - and that's what I don't agree with most here. I have high hopes that the moderators don't choose to defend whichever side of the creationist/evolutionist camp they stand on. This would be prejudice. When someone makes a rude comment -- a blatantly rude comment -- it doesn't matter what side of the debate they're on. If an evolutionist poster showed up and began mouthing off to the creationists here in a rude manner, I wouldn't stand on his or her side for one minute (that we both support the theory of evolution is irrelevant).

Yes. They were first published by Guttenburg but were written on scrolls many years before that. However, they weren't in English until many years after that.
Here's a sample from the King James.



It startled me a bit when you said you had missed these rules and, in fact, hadn't known they were published.

Yet you still have not done so.

I don't know. You are the one who is disregarding what Christ asks us to do as if it were so much chaff to be tossed to the winds.

Then I guess it's a good thing I didn't ask you how you feel about my desires.

I'm not the one who said to treat others with the same respect you desire for yourself; Christ did. You claim to be a follower of Christ and so do I. I am required to point out to a brother when he is acting in an unChristian manner. I have acted in the same manner toward you on this very forum, and for that I must ask your forgiveness.

Whether you forgive me or not is up to you, but that doesn't alieviate me of the obligation to help you when you appear to be straying.

All right CTD. Let it out. Who hurt your feelings so bad?? Come on...let's make up....MMMMMUUUHHHH. (How my daughter use to tell me she loved me : ) I guess I've lost it again :shake: