News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY:

Source of Authority:
Believes the Bible alone is final authority. Believes the canon of Scripture was closed when the 66 books of the Bible were completed. Believes no one today is like the Old Testament prophets who received direct revelation from God.

God:
Believes God has existed in eternity past, although the second Person of the Trinity became incarnate to die for the sins of mankind. Teaches that man can never become God.

Christ:
Believes that Jesus Christ is God, the second Person of the Trinity. Believes that Jesus was supernaturally conceived by Mary through the Holy Spirit. Maintains Jesus was never married.

Salvation:
Teaches that salvation is granted only by grace through faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ. Teaches baptism is a public witness of salvation, not a requirement to be saved. Does not believe there is another chance for salvation after death.

Heaven and Hell:
Believes hell is the future place of punishment for those who reject salvation through Christ. Although there may be different degrees of punishment, all will be punished for rejecting Christ. Claims salvation only for those who trust in Christ; all who reject Him go to an eternal hell.
~~~~~~~~~~
MORMONISM :

Source of Authority:
Believes that the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price contain God's revelations just as the Bible does. Believes in continuing revelation; does not believe the canon of Scripture was closed when the Bible was completed. Views the Mormon presidents as prophets in the same sense as were Abraham, Moses, Peter and other such biblical leaders.

God:
Teaches that He was once a man who, through self-effort, became God. Teaches that good Mormons become gods.

Christ:
Denies His deity by teaching that He was simply a spirit being before coming to earth. Denies the virgin birth by claiming Jesus was conceived when Adam-God had sexual relations with Mary. Claims that Jesus was a polygamist.

Salvation:
Teaches that salvation is earned by works in addition to faith. Believes that you cannot be saved unless you are baptized with water for the remission of sins. Practices baptizing for the dead so that those who have believed after death can become Mormons.

Heaven and Hell:
Believes in three levels of heaven: Celestial, where good Mormons enter and achieve godhood; Terrestrial, where those enter who are good people who do not comply with teachings of Mormonism; and Telestial, where those enter who have lived unclean earthly lives. Claims that the vast majority of mankind will be saved--believing in virtually universal salvation.
````````````````
Name of Organization: The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints

Also known as: Mormons, LDS

Founder: Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844)

U.S. Headquarters: Salt Lake City, Utah

Membership (1996) U.S.: 4.8 million
Worldwide: 9 million

Blessings, Abishag <><

I think the bible is a potent testing rod and we MUST have this, because how else will we be able to test the spirit/prophecies of anything that comes after?

Anything that contradicts and puts in confusion, undermines, twists etc, I believe should be examined carefully. This means ANY prophecy/prophet at all, no matter how holy and knowledgeable, he/she may seem, even if their intentions maybe good. The devil, we must remember, is involved also and seeks to sew confusion/discord. Anywhere God's word is, the Devil is there also.

I don't care what denomination a person is from, the bible is our testing rod and if we did not have this, we would not be able to distinguish/determine truth from a cleverly disguised demonic lie, demonic interference, or ego, or human frailty. All human beings are suseptible/vulnerable and God knows this. His biblical word comes first, everything else is tested by that foundation. If it fails to pass the test, it should be readily disgarded, or at the least treated with caution. Just remember, the Devil can appear as an angel of light! There are people who have indeed had visions and prophecies that can even be 95% accurate...it is the last 5% (or less) that can be poison. Those visions/prophecies must be tested by the person receiving them and the only way to do so, is by testing them via God's holy word which has survived centuries and remained faithful and accurate.

Though we also have to remember that many of us can also argue on "meanings" and "interpretations". But most of the bible clear enough to where the basic foundation of our beliefs are for the most part, agreed upon. When they are not, we must turn to the bible and see what God says.

We also must be very careful when representing another person's faith and make sure we have our facts straight. If we do not, we are in danger of bearing false witness and that has been ripe on the internet.

I don't expect everybody to agree with what I'm saying here, but this is what I believe personally. We all must watch even those within our own demonations who claim to have visions/prophecies and test them via God's word. We are not obligated to accept their word above or aside the bible and if there is any contradiction, the alarm bells should ring.

Abishag: Christ:
Denies His deity by teaching that He was simply a spirit being before coming to earth. Denies the virgin birth by claiming Jesus was conceived when Adam-God had sexual relations with Mary. Claims that Jesus was a polygamist.

Jeanie: Not true. Jesus has always been part of the Godhead. His purpose was foreordained. We do not deny the virgin birth. Adam-God??? Never heard of it. Don't claim Jesus was a polygamist. Some of that is twisted anti-Mormon rhetoric, but I don't debate the other points loosely. So far. (Haven't read through yet).

We DO go by the Bible. The Book of Mormon is a companion to it, another Testament of Christ. Period. It clarifies some lost plain and precious truths that have been changed down through the ages. And it applies to our day.

Oh - and we don't believe in "Universal salvation." Just don't believe in a literal burning hell. We will all be resurrected, but those who do not accept Christ's atonement and repent (I believe you've covered that point before Bex) will have to pay the full price for their own sins. And the celestial is not reserved for "Mormons" but those who accept the fullness of the Gospel. Yes - baptism is an important part of that...fulfillment of all commandments. Jesus did it as our example. It is required. So proxy baptism will be offered to all those who died without a knowledge of the truth. Only God (as in Jesus who will be our judge) can judge the heart on who really had a chance to know and understand the truth but rejected it. Its like I told my cousin, though. Believing God will punish people eternally for not having faith is akin to child abuse. WE ARE HIS CHILDREN WHO HE LOVES. If we understand the life we could have had. Think about it. Just like IT SAYS IN CORINTHIANS. The differences in the different degrees of glory will be as in the different between the sun, moon and stars.... BIG differences. But God will still...always love his children. It is only in the celestial kingdom that we will be allowed to live in his presence. God cannot allow the least degree of sin. Its not about works, its about growing and becoming Christ like through faith and repentance. Being open to eternal progression. If we don't see the error of our ways, we won't change them. Humility is about continually learning.... Faith is not sufficient without repentance. Do you not believe in sanctification? We grow as people through service. That is why its stressed. I can't serve in some of the "classic" ways, so I serve in other ways. And I'm happiest when I'm doing that. I'm trying to decide now how I want to serve career wise. I have a need for meaning in my life. To make it count for something in helping others. Why would you refer to that as a bad thing? (What you are calling works). A person wrapped up in themselves makes for a small package.

You know, rather than go on about anti-Mormon stuff out there, you can always order yourselves a Book of Mormon for free online from www.Mormon.org (If representatives call, tell them no thank you if not interested). The only way to know for sure if its true is to follow what Moroni said and pray about it. The devil isn't going to swoop down and pose as an angel. Nothing to be afraid of : ) Otherwise, let it go.

Oh Good About That.. ((( Smiles )))

I hope you don't believe that..

Denies His deity by teaching that He was simply a spirit being before coming to earth.
Denies the virgin birth by claiming Jesus was conceived when Adam-God had sexual relations with Mary.
Claims that Jesus was a polygamist.

I found that belief disturbing to me it's nice to know you don't
believe that..
But as I've said before in another place on the board..
I agree that the Bible the whole content of the Old and New
Testament is the final authority of what we believe in..
There is none " Holy Scriptures " written after that..

And all the Ancient Fragments and Originals found based on
that text as my basic belief, as my belief..
I watch TLN and I watch many different people/dominations who preach and share Gods word..
And I have learned alot from all of them..
Some more then others but it's all based on the Bible we allready have...

Thats the one I accept..

Take Care
Lynn

I wouldn't be too sure about that. He might even swoop down and pose as God.

It's been known to happen time and time again that is exactly why the bible warns us about it. He did in fact even ask Jesus to bow down and worship him as god.

:rainbow: Thank you , Bex, for your insight concerning this topic. You are most kind to take so much time to show concern for a lost and dying world.

Thank you, Jeanie, for your taking time to reply. However, I beg your pardon as to what I copied verbatim right out of my book, "TRUTH- Twisters", by Harold J. Berry. (from Back to the Bible Ministries).

None, not one of the words typed in this post are my words.

HAROLD J. BERRY is Professor of Bible and Greek at Grace University in Omaha, Nebraska. He currently serves as Back to the Bible's Chairman of the Board. He holds a Master's of Theology degree from Dallas Theological Seminary. (back of book)

I will not debate this with you, Jeanie, nor anyone else. You had said you are open to other's viewpoint. You even asked that I send a 'copy and paste' script to you and you would 'at least read it'. I don't 'copy and paste'. This was a very time consuming and difficult thing to type. I truly care about you and your eternal soul, Jeanie, honestly. I care for all those that follow the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and the New Age Movement.

I have had too many Mormon's and Jehovah Witnesses knock endlessly on my door. They are trying to EARN THEIR SALVATION. THAT CANNOT BE DONE. JESUS paid our sin-debt in full on calvary. We take it, or leave it. Jesus does not FORCE Himslef on anyone.

"If you hold to my teaching...the truth will set you free," Jesus

You can accept this or reject this, that is your choice. I would recommend that perhaps you find out exactly what the Mormon Church (LDS) teaches, IF this is not what YOU believe.

This was not easy for me to type, Jeanie. I do not wish to offend anyone. I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ and only desire to point others to the Cross of Calvary, where we Christians are "saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves; it is the gift of God; NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

I recall (vaguely) some of the posts you made, Jeanie, you were typing out of some other book other than the Holy Scriptures.

REVELATION 22:18-21 KJV "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, "Surely I come quickl." AMEN. Even so come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen <><

May our Sovereign Lord Jesus use His Way to open eyes to the spiritually blinded, whoever you might be.
Blessings, Abishag

I could say things, but I won't : )

Abish
Thank you, Jeanie, for your taking time to reply. However, I beg your pardon as to what I copied verbatim right out of my book, "TRUTH- Twisters", by Harold J. Berry. (from Back to the Bible Ministries).

Jeanie: my point exactly. When you hear what we believe from the church or read the actual Book of Mormon, let me know.

No matter how religious your language is or how Bible toting you are, its possible you could be wrong on this and you are. Sorry, too.

they actually do not even have to 'pose' because they are angels.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

That's from the KJV btw.. everything I have ever quoted from the bible is KJV. If you cannot find those passages in your version of it then some pages in your bible have been altered from the original.

Actually Abishag is correct and you are wrong Jeanie. The LDS church changed it's teachings on some of the items she mentions as recently as 1979 or so. But.. it's a given that anyone who was taught LDS doctrine prior to 1979 still believes everything Abishag refers to and teaches it to their children and others.

You need to study LDS doctrine a bit further Jeanie. You promote a very whitewashed version of it. You might want to start with teachings of the namesake of BYU, Brigham Young. BYU, so named because the man and his teachings are so revered among mormons.

WOW! It's amazing what 'things' are being typed, and added to this post even as I am typing from God's Holy Word.

Good point SoSick !

We read in 2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

In fact all of 2 Corinthians Chapter 11 is dynamic !

The choice is ours to make. "Choose you this day whom you will serve... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15 . If God said it, in the Holy Bible, I believe it! The only other books I read are Holy Scripture Concordances, dictionaries, or few Commentaries.

Blessings, Abishag <><
I once was lost but now I'm found , was blind but now I see!
Thanks for all the input. Blessings,
Abishag <><

There is indeed a literal Hell and Christ spoke on Hell more than He spoke on Heaven. I have gotten many quotes from the bible on this and placed them on this very forum. Undeniable!

Because it is horrific, and distasteful, does not mean we can pretend it doesn't exist as Christ depicted and then put our own meaning upon it to make us and everybody else feel better. There is an eternal punishment, an eternal Hell, just as Christ told. He makes no apologies, but He made continual warnings as He has gone through unspeakable suffering as a sacrifice to save us from going there!

Ye shall be as gods.. it's the same old devil with same old lies just like from the very beginning.

and God does allow it... the separating out from the flock those who desire to contest His throne, just like the devil did before them.

If you truly believed the holy spirit you would not question God's word. The jewish scribes have painstakingly carefully kept it in tact for a good few millenium. And if you do not believe the holy spirit, God's spirit, and his power (to keep His own word both in writing and action) then you cannot be saved because, intrinsically, you actually do not believe.. in God or his spirit, the holy spirit. period.

Wow, SS, thanks for straightening me out!!!

no thanks needed. don't worry about it.

I agree with you jeanie, God cannot allow the least sin/worldly attachment in us. Each human being will undergo their journey which is often riddled with thorns and pitfalls to help break worldy attachments/vanities and can cause us to grow and deepen our characters and cause us to consider what REALLY matters. Hopefully making us more Christlike. I believe that sufferings can indeed be beneficial.

I think "works" are evidence of ones conversion and faith. I think there is grave danger in the "faith alone shall save me" belief, when there are no fruits. Even the Devil believes!

Though most of us fall through daily temptations into sins, we are to get back up and ask forgiveness and try again with the grace of God to keep ourselves away from sin or near occassions of sin should we offend God. Those who fall into sin, but remain there or those who persist and LIVE in sin (e.g. fornication) are continually offending God and are in a sense living as hypocrites. Confessing God with their mouth, but showing little to no evidence in their actions. As though somehow God will turn a blind eye to "them" because they confess him with their mouth, therefore this excuses their actions (not so).

It seems the unbelievers might even fair better than the so-called Christians who know better, but live in a perpetual contradiction. Professing by mouth, yet persisting in a sinful lifestyle. Is it any wonder so many un-believers are so cynical when they see so-called Christians living as they do? where then is the evidence of our salvation and respect of God's commandments in our own lives? We want it both ways and often fool ourselves into believing that we can indeed have it this way and will often cherry pick scripture quotes that we like and avoiding others that make us uncomfortable. Christ's sacrifice on the cross is not something to be trifled with, or used as a free ticket as we continue on our way in sin. Recall that Jesus spoke very strongly about the sins that would condemn a person, and Christians are NO exceptions. It applies it us all. As if we could live as practical atheists and give lip service and still be saved? Playing games with God is not advisable.

Though it is not by OUR works that we are saved, but through Christ's sacrifice on the cross and our faith and acceptance of that sacrifice, the EVIDENCE of our conversion and love of God should be revealed in our actions/demeanor. We become in a sense a new person in Christ. Serving others, as Christ told us to do. Part of this is the repentence and avoidance of sinful practises, which is evidence of our obedience and love of God, not wishing to offend Him, should we also lose our soul. Should we fall, we have the means to get back up thanks to Christ's sacrifice that covers all of time. When one truly repents and sincerely seeks to change their life, one cannot help but find themselves drawn to do good and love others. Christ becomes increasingly present inside a person and they become increasingly aware of his presence. Sin tends to darken and blind a person.

But the word of the Lord says in the book of

Bex, you're backing up what I'm trying to say....I AGREE.

I'm right with you Jeanie! Sorry I wasn't more clear, I edited before I saw your response.

I'm not denying hell exists either - it is and will be the state of our consciences when we face what we did as well as realizing how good it could've been. But my cousin and people where I grew up actually believe God will literally toss people into a fire.... Eternal damnation is lack of progression literally as well as the acute awareness of how we treated others or how we sinned which was unrepented of. I'm trying to put it in my own words and, perhaps not doing so well.....

On other things about my own church which, incidentally I joined in 1975 (yah - i'm that old : ) there is, I say again, a lot of anti-Mormon rhetoric out there. Nothing I say is going to get anyone to listen to me and the proof is anything I say seems to be taken wrong. And yes, SS, I was being sarcastic.... I do know you all mean well, but its getting old. Seriously....YOU are listening to false sources who twist things. I am not whitewashing anything. I've been a member for 33 years in December. I KNOW WHAT WE BELIEVE. Please give it a rest.

I am not denying the divinity of the Bible, either. But if you knew your history you'd know things have been changed over the centuries which is why there are so many different religions. Honestly, Bex, I haven't disagreed in your interpretations. You have a problem with some of how we see things, but just don't quite get it. You're certainly valiant in what you do believe in! I admire that.

SS, I can't take you real serious any more. Abishag - bless you and your kind anti-Mormon words. Enough.

Jeanie, if you read my post, I haven't actually singled out the mormon faith. I cannot do so, unless I know enough about it in it's full accuracy....And I do not. Nor have I made a study on it. If I am a party to passing on nothing more than inaccurate propaganda by misrepresentation, then I could be accused and judged for bearing false witness and will certainly answer to God for doing so. Please re-read what I said and I hope that you'll realise my statements were not actually personal or even singling out anybody's denomination.

I am speaking about every denomination and our prophets/prophecies and the wise idea of using the biblical word and prayer to help us discern them for what they are....so much of these things can indeed be tainted and we must be careful.

That was actually all I meant.

Thank you Bex.

gosh darn, no one ever takes me seriously.

I was wondering... about history... if the KJV is so inaccurate, why does my Tanakh match it so perfectly in the OT? And why oh why did God never mention the planet Kolob before Joseph smith arrived... and why oh why are only mormons given magical mystery underwear...

about that magic underwear...

http://1yellowsub.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/magic-mormon-underpants-garments/

Hi Everybody, ((( Smiles )))

My family belongs to a Community Church..
I'm none denominational now, though I am a Baptist..
My Grandparents wishes..
But it's interesting that my husband left on a counter top
a paper from that Church with Ephesians on it..
With 3 quotes on it..

Ephesians 2:8
FOR BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES,
IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.

Ephesians 2:9
NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS, THAT NO ONE SHOULD BOAST.

Ephesians 2;10
FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMAN, CREATED BY CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS,
WHICH GOD PREPARED BEFOREHAND, THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

So we are saved by our believeing in God our faith..
Not as a result of our works so we can't say look what we did today and what you
didn't so we are better then you in the eyes of God..
Only God can judge a soul in that context..
But.. We are God's workmen and we are created for good works..
And we should walk in them and do them but not to boast about it God expects it..

And as Ephesians 5:20..
GIVEING THANKS AT ALL TIMES FOR ALL THINGS IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST,
EVEN TO GOD (the) FATHER HAVEING SUBJECT TO ONE ANOTHER IN THE FEAR OF GOD..

As I said I watch TLN alot and there are many different teachers/preachers on and there are a few
I like how they teach the best..
And even if I don't agree 100 percent with all there interpretations or I'm still learning more about them
and why they see it that way..
I still learn and I'm still growing in the word..
And lots of churchs may agree with each other up to a point not 100 percent but still
alot are still very well read in the word and good teachers of scripture..
Besides where we vary...
I just like to study/learn what other churchs and there are many of them Bible based
what they believe and why..
Then based on that I accept what is good teaching and throw the rest out..
So many variations out there...

But there is one thing we do share it's the Bible itself..
I remember also studying with a teacher/preacher on TV long ago saying lets stick to Gods word
and let the chips fall where they may..

Yes.. Studying up first hand right from the source itself is the best way of really knowing instead of
second hand and the only Mormons I've met was at the front door and I've also had other dominations showing
up at my front door recruiting or spreading the good news one time it was Baptist and I almost considered
that again..
But this other church just happen to have something that my family needed and so here we are..
Do I agree 100 percent with them.. Hummmm....
My faith is in the Bible not a building or in others ..
Where it should be for everybody..
Who studies Gods word..

Just my take on it and stay well everybody....
OHHH and plus..
What is magic underwear I never heard of that
one before???

Plus for some reason i'm haveing connection problems with
this site.. Not sure why??

Take Care
Lynn

magical mystery underwear.. some sort of underwear mormons wear after some sort of temple acceptance initiation ceremony.. means they are on their way to heaven or something like that... some say it protects them from harm.. I guess they need that because God is not protecting them.. maybe there is some confusion about the armor of God really I have no idea what they really believe concerning it.. except they are suppose to wear it at all times and never ever discuss it with non-mormons.. some say it is suppose to remind them of God..

glad I will not have to explain anything like that on judgement day. if my kid told me she faithfully wore her underwear and never removed it because it reminded her of me I think i would be very tempted to wash her mouth out with soap and ground her for the rest of the year...

I think I did at least do the right thing as a parent by teaching her to change her undies daily and not to judge people by their underwear.

Hi SoSick,
I know you mean well, but if you don't mind, I think we Christians have gotten our point across about the Mormons 'Twisted Beliefs'. We were, as the Bible says, "salt".

Now, let's try to be a "light" to encourage them in the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, JESUS!

Paul tells us, "Brethren, if a man (or woman) be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

GOD IS LOVE. So let's leave the judging up to Him, the King of Glory.

Thank you for your insight. Sincerely, Blessings,
Abishag <><

For those who are looking for Biblical proof of the Triune God, please see January 5, 2009 , "The Trinity and the Christian".

This information comes to us from "Institute for CREATION Research." <www.icr.org>

Let us Christians expose the deeds of darkness and carry the Gospel of Jesus Christ into the world....as He (Jesus), instructs us to do:

Matthew 28:18 "Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been to me: Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

New Internation Version Bible
Blessings, Abishag <><
JESUS IS LORD! JESUS LOVES YOU!