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Hi there everyone.

Well i decided to start detoxing with the Cutler protocol. Unfortunately i'm finding it very hard to finish a round, well even get halfway through a round. I can do about 12 hours then it all gets too much. Would even doing such a short space of time make a difference or would it make things worse? I'm taking the doses every 3 hours ALA and 4 hours DMSA. It's all a little too much though. My situation is not helped by having composites im reacting to in my mouth.

I'd like to think even 12 hours is doing something and i'd like to continue this but i don't want to if its going to cause more harm than good.

Love and Light
Stuart

Hi Stuart,

You might find it easier if you take DMSA and ALA at the sametime (every 3 hours). Rather than taking one every 3 and the other every 4. Since DMSA can be taken every 3 hours like ALA, it would make it easier also and may help with symptoms. Both are meant to be taken together at the sametime - not separated. This maybe causing some issues.

What dose are you on again? You maybe taking too high a dose and this maybe why you are finding that you limit is about 12 hours before it become intolerable?

What symptoms is it causing out of curiosity? Because i had similar happen to me, even on DMSA alone and often could only chelate for a day sometimes and had to stop. I do not believe this is ideal, but I did not know what else to do as nothing else was tolerated either. This was usually when I was very toxic - both with mercury and yeast at the sametime. So this is why it's often essential to treat candida so you can deal better with the toxic mercury and the chelation itself.

Do you find you get after effects once you stop the round? If so, how bad are they? If not - you may get away with this, but certainly it's not recommended by Cutler. Ideally you want to do at least 2 - 3 days. But if your symptoms are intolerable, and you are on a very small dose - then it's very difficult to know what to suggest at this point.

I would definitely take DMSA together with ALA every 3 hours and reduce the dose if necessary. Are you taking the recommended supplements? As that apparently can help and maybe required moreso in your situation. Are you on any specific diet that may also help with symptoms? As toxins are more easily handled by a gut and liver that is not dealing with a high yeast situation. Otherwise you can get backfire effects far more easily and the body is less able to handle and keep up with the chelation. I found treating yeast made chelation FAR more manageable.

It will be doing something yes, but one hopes that the risks will not outweigh the benefits in this situation.

Have you thought of doing DMSA alone and seeing if the same thing happens? If not, I'd try doing that and judge the effects. You may require more DMSA alone and/or lower doses of either/both chelators.

You could also try ALA alone and see - as DMSA maybe causing a problem. it's very hard to say what exactly is going on here. Most likely it's just a high mercury situation and you are just simply very very toxic, which is why very small doses maybe required to handle this more and/or going back to DMSA alone for awhile perhaps and trying ALA later or as I said, if you suspect DMSA maybe an issue, trying ALA alone.

There are various things you could experiment with to see if you can find out why this is occuring. Certainly diet and supplements are necessary to support this process and should never be ignored.

If your going to chelate via the cutler protocol I would stop HMD and cilantro. Are you still taking them?

You really just have to lower the dose until you find an amount you can tolerate...and as bex said take both every 3 hours, not seperate.. Some people need to start off as low as 4mg ALA every 3 hours, and do still show improvement after many rounds of chelating.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I have stopped the HMD and cilantro. HMD was pretty effective for me but cilantro mobilised way too much. The symptoms i'm getting are pretty much exhaustion. My body just feels as if it can't take any more after say 4 or 5 doses so i stop. I will attempt to take both together. Cutler is right when he says the DMSA takes away the symptoms of ALA. When i took ALA on its own it was a nightmare with mental symptoms and don't seem to get them so bad when the DMSA added. The dose i have to take too is very very low. 4mgs is about all i can tolerate.

My situation hasn't been helped by a dentist filling my mouth with incompatible materials despite me even giving him a full bio report(it shows how much these people truly pay attention not to mention how silly and trustworthy i am) so im having breathing difficulties just on that note, not to mention it's made me pretty depressed. He says he will fix it but my trust in him has diminished.

I think i'm basically just very very toxic Bex. The candida and parasites situation i'm actually finally getting under control i got rid of loads of ascaris the other day(thank you P'au Darco tea) and i've just bought a zapper so i hope that any virus i might be carrying along with the mercury will be eliminated.

Ill try adjusting the timing of the doses and see what happens.

Thank you guys. This is truly hell on earth at times.

Love and light
Stuart

I had the same thing a week ago when I attempted chelation, stopped after a couple of hours. In me its mainly candida, be sure to have it under control. I know, it sucks....

I'm glad you stopped the HMD and cilantro. It would likely simply confuse things and mobilise far too much on it's own, let alone in combination with Cutler's protocol.

You mention exhaustion and that's what happened to me. It's the kind that is almost bone crushing tiredness to where you literally cannot think properly or function and you have almost no choice but to stop the round. I've been there and I know what it's like. But that does indicate you are certainly on the right track, because it would not be doing anything if you weren't. Seriously, without the presence of heavy metals like mercury it's unlikely you'd get any such symptoms. And the fact ALA produced them alone even worse without the DMSA is also strongly indicative - because ALA is simply an antioxidant. So it's unlikely to produce side effects apart from possible flaring up of yeast - and even that may indicate the movement of metals too as one person pointed out because apparently ALA moves the metals out via the feces and perhaps the journey in that area disrupts the flora and flares candida.

Your dose is very low. Gaining such symptoms from such a low dose indicates just how toxic you are. But at least it means that you are hitting the target.



I hope he does the replacement for free, since he took no notice of your bio report and shoved it whatever was available instead. Dentists like this should be liable for such decisions, since it's always more trauma on the teeth to have fillings removed and replaced. So he is responsible for causing you unnecessary stress and possible increased side effects from an incompatible material.

However, it is not known how accurate any of these tests are and often differing compatibility testing can yield contradictory results - which does not help my trust in these tets at all. I have had re-replacements done also a number of times because of finding out they were apparently incompatible, but never recall really any improvements following it. Though I wouldn't rule that out with someone else.

My issue back then was definitely mercury, but because my symptoms got worse following replacments, I blamed the replacement materials (understandable). I was very distressed at my increase in symptoms and didn't realise that the stored mercury was actually shifting out of me and causing most of it. Only chelation began to improve that, replacements didn't do much.

Also mercury (and candida) can both CAUSE multiple chemical sensitivity. So that may also be a cause of people who might be reacting more with their new materials, which they may not have reacted to if they were not so mercury toxic. So regardless of what maybe going on with your replacement materials - you are obviously very metal toxic given the symptoms you are getting when you chelate. It is possible that the replacement materials may be an added burden, which "may"be making that process more difficult, but it's too hard to say. Mercury can cause it all, especially when it's in dumping stage. So symptoms can indeed get FAR worse following amalgam removal and cause many a person to become distressed, confused and desperate.

If it would make you feel more secure in getting materials that have shown to be safe on your biocompatibility testing, then that dentist should definitely replace them - but since he has violated your trust, this is not going to be easy for you to sit in that chair again and trust him for any future procedures.



In order to control candida and parasites, you must be on the proper diet. There is little point in using antifungals when if one continues to feed these organisms via sugars and high carbohydrates. The diet is the main part of treatment. Antifungals are only supplementary. Killing candida does not really cure candida, because it simply grows back again if the grounds for why it's happening are not addressed (e.g. diet).

The diet will not only address candida and parasites, but also helps the immune system and the entire body. It will also help reduce other toxins and even to a point, some heavy metals naturally. It will aid both the gut and the liver, and allow much better grounds for detoxificatin and chelation.

As the body improves in health, things like candida are naturally kept in better balance.

If I can do the diet, anybody can. Since I was a sugar addict to the extreme and at first, I cried from the withdrawal, I smelt toxic and I had headches. It wasn't easy, but when you're sick enough and suffering enough, you'll go through it just to gain any kind of improvement at the end of it. The cravings usually increase at first, but battle it out and they begin to go after a few weeks and improvement should be noted. It was worth the intial difficult to gain what came afterwards. The problem is that so many of us are heavily addicted to high carbohydrates and don't wish to be without them because we crave them. Actually yeast usually craves them and it gives them exactly what they need to remain at high levels in a mercury toxic person (or other immune compromised person). Anybody can do the diet if they are determined enough. There is simply no such thing as treating yeast without the diet. And using antifungals, whilst continuing to feed the organisms, is, if anything, maybe a self defeating programme.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. But there is no such thing as a genuine yeast treatment programme without the diet in place. There maybe some sites that make such claims to sell their product though. But true blue candida forums etc, ALL know how important the diet is. As are the books I have by doctors who believe in candida. Diet is in fact the first part of the treatment programme - and sometimes the only treatment programme. In fact, antifungals are not even meant to be used until the person has first reduced yeast with the diet alone.

PS - Stuart, regarding the mercury. Did you use DMSA alone for a time? If so how long did you do this? And when were your amalgams removed?

Bex the key is to get your bacteria back in your favor, kill it off systemically and then take tons of probiotics and then heal your gut as well with Glutamine and use Enzymes, all of those will help keep it at bay, all the diet does is supress symptoms! If you eat something after doing the diet for two years Candida is back ten fold and sometimes worse, the diet does nothing to get rid of it, although it helps keep symptoms way down and keep you healhier so it is good. I think people should look into curing it and not just supressing it. Antibiotics gave it to me I am sure of, I did a few rounds of it and know thats mainly what it is (Steroids from Inhalors too). You can cure it.

Sean, I see what you're saying. But I don't believe the diet is designed just to suppress symptoms because it's always worked for me in the past to such an extent that I eventually was able to cheat without too much of an impact as my immune system got stronger and further toxins were removed.

However, since having a course of antibiotics over 2 years ago, all that changed. And now I have a stubborn problem with it, where one even mild cheat will cause a complete relapse.

The diet removes what the candida needs to grow and thrive - it is about building up the immune system, increasing the ability to detox, not just removing its food source, which is what the diet does. It's necessary for me to get through each day. However, if it were not for the yeast, I'd be including far more in my diet like fruits and grain, but I cannot do so. Once before I was this ill, I was still able to consume high carbs, so long as I excluded sugar and wheat/gluten and yeast. I was luckier then.

Cheating hurt at the time, but I recovered quickly back then. Plus I was very mercury toxic and the mercury was suppressing immunity, so the diet helped counteract it to a point.

These days it's different because my condition is different, situation differs and I'm far more vulnerable. I am sure I will need more than the diet, because of the antibiotics as well. However, again it's immune related also and down to underlying factors (whether mercury/viral or otherwise).

Yeah, I agree with you that in serious cases of persistant infection, one may need to go further and use an antifungal and later probitiocs once the yeast has been killed off further. I am fearful that my yeast may come back even stronger or become immune to further efforts I make (e.g. become resistent to the antifungals etc). I was put on an antifungal many years ago and I was very ill from it and the ill effects continued and I would often vomit. Finally they took me off it and I simply stayed on the diet (though a much looser one) and I was fine.

Though these days, I"m not fine.

One website I am on says the diet in the end is the cure, not antifungals as all they do is kill it off but do nothing to build up the immune system, which is how yeast is kept in balance.....not sure what to think now.

Thanks for your post though. What antifungal would you recommend?

Imo you should do a proper parasite cleanse for a month before attempting another chelation round. There are parasite cleanses with wormwood, black walnut green hull extract, clove, and perhaps other herbs. You could also eat raw garlic. Here is a link to a website that mentions many antiparasitic herbs. A multiherb approach is best.

http://www.innvista.com/HEALTH/MICROBES/PARASITE/TREATPAR.HTM

I agree. It would appear that for some, parasite cleanses have proven HIGHLY effective in helping their body eliminate the unnecessary and be in a better position afterwards.

Sadly, parasite cleanses do not have appeared to have been that effective for me and I've done a few over the years and good quality ones too with a mixture of ingredients. But I have heard enough on here from others who have and had great results to consider that it's something that probably should be done by everybody - even quite regularly just in case.

Call me crazy but I bought a magazine a few days ago that mentions three C's for Candida, Cayenne Pepper is one of all things (Curry too) that says it can reduce the yeast by 41% in two weeks! Who ever heard of Cayenne Pepper for healing? I didn't I always just thought it was for spicing up foods. I also read Oxygen can cure it but I haven't really tried that for too long, it takes away the dark spaces where it thrives and it can't survive any longer (Dark damp spots). Cayenne I can imagine would boost the immune system as it is one of the top herbs I have read about, is heals the gut lining too I read. I am going to have to try it and get back to you. I know at first until I am used to it that it will give me that hot taste in my throat and other little side effects! It is very hot and taking the pill form is the only way I would go. I am all for the diet if it works for you! Very good and thats the way you can cope and feel alright, so be it. I don't think it is the only cure though or a complete cure, it helps alot I am sure but if you cheat again? Won't it just come right back? I read that before. I am going to go with the Cayenne and Good probiotic I bought for a few weeks, I will let you know Bex. Wish me well! We need a cure.

Cayenne on there too! GO FIGURE! I read alot about it today, truly amazing stuff for Yeast and Parasites! I am going to roast those things. I will not chelate until I am done trying to knock levels of yeast and parasites down, it's simply too much for me.

I have heard of cayenne pepper for other things too. It seems it's good stuff. Didn't know that about curry though. I can't have a lot of things because there are usually other stuff mixed in that winds up feeding yeast and causing problems for me. I can't have rice or anything like that.

I tried a probiotic for a few weeks and didn't like the results at all. Though some might say it was "die off", I felt wrong with it. I was concerned something else was also going on with it, as I was feeling toxic and even weeks, decided to stop. I've felt ill with diet too before, when first starting but it was clearly die off. Whereas the probitoics didn't feel right for me somehow. I could be completely mistaken though.



Yep, cayenne was also in the parasite cleanse I did! No wonder it tasted like it did

If you feel more comfortable getting yeast and parasites down more before chelating, go for it. See if it puts you in a better position to handle the chelation too and having a better functioning gut and liver from less yeast and parasites is very beneficial when you are trying to eliminate metals. I remember chelating with a bad yeast situation and I wound up shunting toxins into my gut area after taking a late dose. I wound up redistributing metals into the gut. Under other circumstances, when I went on the candida diet, I had no more issues with chelation and even an accidental missing/late dose did not produce the dire effects it had when I had high yeast levels.

Seriously, the diet enabled me to chelate more safely and effectively. It depends on the person though - for me I had to do something. Someone else may have a stronger immunity to battle yeast. I don't.

The diet does work for me at this point, so I'm sticking with it. No it's not a cure, because it's not really addressing what caused the yeast in the first place and until that is removed - yeast will continue to come back. Though the antibiotics admittedly made the situation far far worse and if I had the time again, I would NEVER have taken them. I regret it bitterly.

I may try antifungals again, but I'm not that keen. Most systemic antifungals are toxic to the liver. And a medicated antifungal I took once caused regular nausea and vomiting. Whether die off or toxicity/allergy? I don't know. I'm wary of these things though. A herbal antifungal worked too well in the beginning and killed off alot of yeast in one go, releasing not only yeast toxins, but also the heavy metals contained. I was seriously seriously poisoned and wasn't aware of the warnings for mercury toxic people to be very careful of antifungal use.

Yeast often contain mercury and can even hold their own weight in mercury. The diet only works by cutting off the overgrowth's extra food supply. Therefore it slowly weakens/sickens and dies and is gradually discarded by the body. Though it will release death toxins, it is not split open the same way antifungals work. They apparently blast or split open yeast cell walls. Should they contain mercury, the mercury is then released into the system and sometimes acutely so. I was VERY ill. I was getting the shakes, fever, chills, metal taste etc. Nothing cured the reaction until I got on DMSA. So I pretty much confirmed the theory.

Plus apparently there has been testing done in mercury toxic patients after antifungal use and found that there was an increase of mercury in the urine following. So it seems it may well be a viable theory.

I don't have that now if I try an antifungal, since I think it was an initial response of perhaps long standing yeast containing mercury that may have been there for sometime. But I'd always advise caution for people with mercury when taking an aggressive approach to candida for this reason.

Bex, I too get horrible yeast from trying to detox metals, infact it almost makes me nuts alot of times, in the morning at around 8 or so especially! My mind races and I have trouble breathing, a classic yeast flare up when I choose to chelate metals. Antifungals can damage the liver, but what kind? Cayenne I would not really consider that or would it damage the liver, infact that could help IMO correct? I agree though some can and it's dangerous over time. Have you ever tried Milk Thistle when chelating or killing off yeast? Probably helps alot. When I kill the yeat I get a metallic taste too and relase toxins in my body, it sucks and I feel flat out horrible alot of the times whether just a simple Probiotic or whatever. Enzymes are supposed to really help, but I took them and notta, didn't help out with the Yeast overgrowth and the ones I took specialized in that (Candida yeast management from NSI). I am going to get this and parasites down to try a metal cleanse again, seriously if I just go on the metal cleanse it sucks and I feel ALOT WORSE, almost crazy and very tired and so on. Yeast cleanses or getting yeast down always makes me feel alot better (I took threelac in 04 and felt better than I did in years, I could eat alot of things again), so maybe for me it's more yeast than Metals? Who knows, but I have to find out if I am to get better. I can think clearer and I am more positive with low yeast, as my yeast goes I go is my motto and has been for years. If Yeast is low I work very well and get alot done, if Yeast is high I work slowly and can't think straight.

Sean sounds like you're in the same situation i am. The only things that seem to help me are raw almonds(i think they help my brain) and Formula SF722. I have tried every other antifungal/candida product and this is the only one that does the job. It's amazing. If you have a yeast problem i really cant recommend this enough.