News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

My gynecologist tested my hormones and adrenals. She found that my cortisol levels are very low, and wants me to take a low dose of cortef (7.5 g. a.m., and 5g p.m.) Have people done this and has it helped with energy?

She also wants me to take vitamin D, magnesium, fish oil, carnitine with b-12. She said that my vitamin D levels are nonexistent on testing and vitamin D is very involved with immunity and bone health.

My cholesterol is extremely high even though I weigh under 90 lbs. (I'm not even 5 ft but also underweight since I'm sick). This I'm sure is related to mercury toxicity.

She also wants me to try to take asprin to control inflammation because I had such high markers for this.

And my progesterone levels are low so she wants me to take a compounded progesterone. She practices bioidentical hormone replacement.

She wants me to get the fillings removed, and recommended I take N-acetylcysteine to support my system.

Of course, I am the one who is so chemically sensitive that I can't tolerate anything. I said that I would try to see where I get with this stuff. I am still taking Natural cellular defense but reduced the dosage.

Do you guys have any thoughts on this? I am especially interested in your views on the vitamin D, cortef, asprin, and n-acetylcysteine ? Have any of you taken these things and if so, did they help? Thanks so much for your feedback!

Also, I forgot to mention, I have high testosterone (which does not surprise me). Is this common in mercury toxicity?

Hi Andrea. I'm happy you got all that testing done. Now you can better understanding of how your body is working.
I don't have a lot of answers for you other than to tell you if you can take bromelain instead of asprin that would be more natural. Bromelain is from pineapple and is an awesome inflammatory. It worked better than Naproxin for me and it's also a natural enzyme good for digestion.
Also I had a question for you... What are your symptoms of high testosterone? I can't find a whole lot of info on this. Thanks.

Blessings and healing to you.

I am constantly plucking the hair on my chin. It grows back it seems like as soon as I pluck it out (well, not quite that fast, but almost!). It's interesting because I know that they were researching high testosterone levels in Autistic kids. It makes me think about the brain fog and wonder if there is a connection.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Bromelain.

Hi andrea, it looks like you have a great doc, i wish i had one!
I take Hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue, 30mg daily in 4 doses. It has really helped.
take her advice and get amalgam removed, its no good to anyone, it just poisons you day in day out.
I take Vit D, magnesium fish oil, its all good. Not sure about NAC.
Did you get your thyroid tested?
Mercury symptoms are the same as low thyroid which makes me think that most symptoms of mercury are thyroid related as mercury attacks thyroid like it did mine, and i have recently realised that all my symptoms are thyoid and adrenal related because of mercury and there are treatments that can make you better while chelating the mercury out.
Cheers dawn.

Hi Dawn. I did get my thyroid tested and everything came out o.k. So we are starting by treating the adrenals. I the hydrocortisone helps me like it helped you. I do plan to get my amalgams out - I just want to try to get myself into a little bit of a stronger place before doing so. I want to make sure I can tolerate chelating in some way - otherwise I might be in an even bigger mess. I'm really hoping the Cortef might help me to tolerate chelation and other vitamins better. It's good to hear you are taking many of the other supplements she recommended too.

Thanks again-

Hi ANdrea

How did they test your thyroid?

If they have tested your TSH only it is a useless test.

I agree that mercury poisioning and hypothyroidism have very simular sysmptoms, so we need to find out if thyroid or mercury or a bit of both are the route cause of your problems.

Did you have your Free T4 and Free T3 tested?

Crunchie,

The dr. tested free T-4; thyroid antibodies (thyroid peroxidase (TPO)-Ab; antithyroglobulin Ab); TSH; Reverse T3 - they all came up normal.

It seems to me that mercury could be the cause of most of your symptoms. I think that mercury has a strong debilitating effect on the endocrine system, including hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenals and thyroid. Once you get rid of your mercury you may feel a lot better.

Thanks Anonymous. I hope so. I am trying to get on the things she recommended because I feel that it may strengthen my system as I detox. But I'm having a hard time taking everything as I am very hypersensitive.

Thanks again.

Andrea,

I was wondering - are you going to a traditional MD or an alternative practitioner? Because my doctor (an alternative/holistic MD) says that most doctors consider most people to have normal thyroids, even if they are problematic. He claims that they only see a very small section along a scale of functioning as dysfunctional, whereas in reality (in the holistic medicine world), the windown of dysfunction is much larger.....this results in many people with thyroid issues being told that their thyroids are fine, when in fact they aren't.

My tests indicated that my thyroid was fine. But my doctor is treating me anyway, and my body is handling quite large doses of armour thyroid, and with no shakiness or side effects, which confirms for my doctor that my body truly needs that high dose, and that my thyoid was functioning very poorly.

Just food for thought....

~Tia

By the way, I recently started to take Cortef and it's unclear at this point how much it is helping. The dosage is somewhat trial and error, and I've had to increase my dose a couple times. We'll see if that helps. I do have a friend that reports tremendous improvements from Cortef though.

~Tia

Check the Physicians Desk Reference re cortisone. It has a mountain of adverse effects and causes your body to be highly toxic.

The toxicity does not occur when Cortef is given in physiological doses -- as is done in treating Adrenal Fatigue. See, "The Safe Uses of Cortisol," by Dr. William Jeffries for established studies and efficacy as well as safety.

Cortisone when given in large doses (i.e., not small physiological doses) can be problematic when taken over long periods. However, as stated above, when treating Adrenal Fatigue, only physiological doses are used.

that's true - supplementing in low doses only replenishes what your body should be making on it's own, but isn't able to due to adrenal fatigue. at this dose, it's therapeutic and unfortunately, very necessary for some of us. my doctor said it's about 1/17th of the dose of prednisone...

Dentists say hg is non toxic and doctors give hormones as if they were candy without telling patients the side effects or how those hormones will affect your own ability to produce hormones.Doctors should be figuring out why the patients hormone levels are off and try to fix the problem.
When a doctor tells you prednisone is harmless in low doses ,you should believe them ,just as you should believe dentists when they say hg exposure from amalgam is negligible. Most holistic MDs think that steroids are about the worst drugs in existence.

You will never detox with all those steroids.

Where did you study chemistry or medicine?

Hi jill, I don't know to whom you are directing your seemingly provocative question. For what it's worth, Holistic Medical doctors have been addressing adrenal exhaustion and do use cortisol in physiological doses for this condition. See the American Board of Holistic Medicine and the American College for The Advancement of Medicine for starters.

They aren't the only ones. Naturopaths, Orthomolecular Physicians, Osteopaths, are but a few of the specialties that treat this condition with nutrition, supplements, botanicals, herbs and yes, bio-identical Cortisol (a/k/a Cortef).

In high doses, cortisone will cause alot of problems. But high doses are NOT what is indicated or used with hypoadrenia.

A good and knowledgeable practitioner will not just prescribe Cortisol willy-nilly. They will do so only after performing functional testing -- including, but not limited to, AdrenoCortex Stress Salive Profiles to test for adrenal function and levels of natural cortisol and DHEA, extensive blood work, testing for Thyroid function, etc. The cortisol that is used in this condition is a bio-identical form.

Excerpts from

"Mild Adrenocortical Deficiency, Chronic Allergies, Autoimmune Disorders and
the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A Continuation of the Cortisone Story"

Jefferies,W.McK., Med Hypoth 1994; 42: 183-189

"When patents expired on cortisone and cortisol, the more potent derivatives, whose patents persisted, were promoted more vigorously and the natural hormone tended to be forgotten. Package inserts no longer differentiated between physiologic and pharmacologic dosages of cortisol and it was implied that all of the grim side effects might develop at any dosage level."

"Most physicians practicing today are therefore under the impression that any dosage of cortisol can produce any of the serious side-effects that occur only with administration of large, pharmacologic dosages of this normal hormone."

"Reports documenting the safety and effectiveness of physiologic dosages of cortisol were published in reputable medical journals over 25 years ago, but computerized reviews of the medical literature, such as Medline, do not yet cover publications that remote, so few physicians today are aware of the existence of these reports."

"One of the most alarming effects of pharmacologic dosages was impairment of immunity, causing patients to become susceptible to infections.... It has even been suggested that the increased production of cortisol that occurs at the onset of infection may serve to limit the reaction from overshooting and hence would be consistent with the anti-immune effects of pharmacologic dosages, but a more likely explanation of this increased production is that of Ingle, which states: "The increased secretion of adrenal hormones serves to meet an increased need during stress and tends to maintain homeostasis rather than to disturb it. The increased secretion does not cause a state of hypercorticism such as develops when the titer of these hormones is increased artificially in the absence of need."

"Evidence that cortisol impairs immunity only in large, pharmacologic dosages and that in physiologic amounts this hormone is essential for the development and maintenance of normal immunity has been reported by investigators over the past 40 years, but largely overlooked,..."

"Before patients are given other hormones, tests of the function of the glands that produce those hormones are usually performed, but tests of adrenocortical function are seldom made on patients before the administration of glucocorticoids."

"Normal ranges for blood cortisol levels and other tests of adrenal function have been determined on subjects who did not have obvious adrenocortical excess (Cushing's syndrome), or deficiency (Addison's disease), or panhypopituitarism,or any other apparent illness, and are rather broad. Hence they may include patients with mild deficiency or excess of cortisol. Also it must be remembered that resistance to cortisol may occur because of a defect in receptor function,so blood cortisol levels in the normal or even supranormal range do not exclude the possibility of symptoms associated with deficiency of cortisol effects."

"If cortisol is administered to patients with mild primary adrenal deficiency in an amount less than a full replacement dosage, there appears to be no summation effect beyond the reaching of an optimum level since patients receiving such dosages have not developed hypercortisolism. If they receive a full replacement dosage for a prolonged period, however,their adrenals might be suppressed sufficiently to impair further their resistance to stress."

"As with patients with severe adrenal deficiency, if a patient with mild adrenal deficiency has evidence of an active inflammatory processor infection, a larger dosage of cortisol, up to 20 mg 4 times daily, in conjunction with a suitable antibiotic or other type of therapy, is advisable,but when this condition is under control, the dosage of cortisol should be tapered to the maintenance level (between 2.5-7.5 mg four times daily)over 2 to 4 days."

"During exacerbations, patients with allergies or autoimmune disorders need to take larger dosages of cortisol (20 mg four times daily is usually adequate), but as soon as symptoms are under control, the dosage should be tapered to a physiologic maintenance dosage. If this is not possible without a return of symptoms, a careful search should be made for obscure infection or other persistent source of stress that is preventing the return to a safe maintenance dosage."

"Since subreplacement dosages of cortisol do not produce an excess of glucocorticoid, they have not tended to promote the development of osteoporosis or any other undesirable side-effects that can result from administration of large, pharmacologic dosages."

"Patients have been treated with this schedule of cortisol or cortisone acetate for as long as 40 years without significant problems. Because some of these patients had ovarian dysfunction and infertility, and because continuation of small, physiologic dosages helped to protect against miscarriages,over 200 babies have been born to women who continued these physiologic dosages through their pregnancies and sometimes during their postpartum(including nursing) periods with no evidence of harm to either mothers or babies."

****************
And there is this:

Cortisone: A Problem in Pharmaceutical Marketing

William McK. Jefferies, M.D. (Retired)

When cortisone was first reported to produce dramatic beneficial effects in patients with rheumatoid arthritis in 1949(1), its use was welcomed as a major advance in medical therapy. The fact that it was a normal hormone, the only hormone that is absolutely essential for life, and that it also produced similar dramatic beneficial effects in patients with other autoimmune disorders, in those with chronic allergic disorders, and in those with many other illnesses, resulted in its discoverers being awarded the Nobel Prize. Yet within a few years patients receiving cortisone or its derivatives had developed so many serious and sometimes fatal side effects that these medications developed a reputation for being dangerous drugs whose use should be limited to patients with serious illnesses that could not be helped by any other treatment. Meanwhile it became evident that cortisone must be converted to hydrocortisone before having its characteristic physiologic effects and chemists pointed out that cortisol was a more proper term for hydrocortisone, thus adding to the confusion of most physicians and patients.

When serious side effects developed in patients receiving the large dosages of cortisone or hydrocortisone (cortisol) that were thought to be necessary for therapeutic effects, derivatives such as prednisone or triamcinolone were introduced, but except for less tendency to produce retention of salt and water (edema), the derivatives often produced any or all of the undesirable side effects of excessive amounts of the normal hormone. Hence cortisone and cortisol developed a reputation for being dangerous drugs whose use should be confined to patients with serious, life-threatening illnesses that would not improve with any other treatment.

Having trained at the Massachusetts General Hospital under Dr. Fuller Albright, a pioneer in the study of adrenocortical function, I was developing an endocrine clinic and research laboratory at Western Reserve University Hospitals in Cleveland, Ohio and I saw every patient admitted for treatment with cortisone or its derivatives for the first two years that these medications were available. In 1955 I wrote a review article summarizing the problems that existed at that time that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine entitled, "The Present Status of ACTH, Cortisone and Related Steroids in Clinical Medicine" (2). During this time I determined that the duration of effect of a single dose of cortisol was approximately 8 hours and that normal human adrenals produced the equivalent of 35 to 40 mg of cortisol daily when taken as tablets by mouth 4 times daily, before meals and at bedtime in the absence of unusual stress.

Meanwhile I also began to work in an infertility clinic associated with Western Reserve University and found that many of its women patients had evidence of mild disorders of adrenal function that improved when they were given small, subreplacement dosages of cortisone or cortisol (3). During the next twenty years over 200 babies were born to women with mild disorders of ovarian function who took safe, physiologic dosages of cortisone or cortisol not only in order to get pregnant but also throughout their pregnancies to protect against miscarriages, without any evidence or harm to either mothers or babies (4). These dosages therefore appeared to be restoring normal function rather than impairing it.

Some of these women reported that while taking the small, safe dosages of cortisone or cortisol their symptoms of allergies, or unexplained chronic fatigue (the chronic fatigue syndrome), or autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis or chronic thyroiditis, also improved. These beneficial effects of safe, physiologic dosages of cortisone or cortisol were reported at the annual meeting of the American College of Physicians in New York City in April, 1966, and in a paper published in the Archives of Internal Medicine in 1967 (5), but by that time patents on the normal hormones, cortisone and cortisol, had expired. Pharmaceutical laws require that when a new use is found for a medication, it must receive all of the relevant tests for its safety, including therapeutic trials, before the new use can be advertised. Because such studies are expensive, pharmaceutical companies have little incentive for performing them when they no longer have the protection for their investment that is provided by a patent. Hence pharmaceutical companies apparently could not even mention in their package inserts or advertisements any of these potential new uses of safe dosages of the normal hormone, cortisol! Further reports of the beneficial effects of safe dosages of cortisone or cortisol were published in endocrine journals and conference proceedings in the 1960's and 1970's, but these were received skeptically by most physicians when no ads or promotional efforts by the pharmaceutical companies marketing the hormones appeared.

I, like most other physicians, did not realize the cause of this problem, so I thought it might be helped by my writing a book reviewing the cortisone story and describing the beneficial effects of safe, physiologic dosages of cortisone or cortisol that had been observed. In 1981, therefore, Safe Uses of Cortisone was published by the Charles C. Thomas Company, a reputable medical publisher that had published much of the earlier work on cortisone and its derivatives.

This book also received little attention until a few patients with chronic allergies and their physicians found that this therapeutic approach was both safe and effective. During the past five years, when it has become evident that the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis plays a major role in immunity and in the response to stress, there has been a return to considering the possibility that autoimmune disorders, especially rheumatoid arthritis, and chronic allergic disorders might be related to mild adrenocortical deficiency, either primary in the adrenal glands or secondary to deficient stimulation by adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) from the pituitary gland. An update on Safe Uses of Cortisone entitled Safe Uses of Cortisol has therefore recently been published, reviewing these developments and the evidence that mild adrenocortical deficiency, a diagnosis that is not mentioned in medical textbooks, is very probably a factor in the development of many, if not all, allergic disorders and autoimmune disorders, and describing a safe treatment of these disorders with physiologic dosages of cortisol (6). Hopefully this book will help to clarify this confusing situation. Cortisol is a normal hormone, the only hormone that is absolutely essential for life, so it must be safe in proper physiologic amounts!

These developments have therefore revealed a serious problem in our pharmaceutical laws that will hopefully be corrected. If a cure for cancer were found tomorrow in a medication whose patent had expired, especially one that had developed a bad reputation like cortisone, it might be extremely difficult to get anyone to pay any attention to it!

I do apologize, the above post by Anonymous responding to jill and including the information on the safe uses of cortisol and info from Dr. Jeffries was mine! Forgot to sign in -- AGAIN! lol

SomedaySoon

"you will never detox with all those steroids"
What do you suggest Dr. Jill?

Jill -

It is 2 different HOLISTIC MDs that have prescribed the cortef for me. I never claimed to have studied medicine or chemistry, so I'm a bit puzzled by the challenging responses....I'm not claiming to be an expert. I just was sharing info that my 2 holistic doctors gave to me, that's all. I'm not a doctor, but needless to say, neither are you. I'm fine with people having different opinions out there. That's ok if you don't agree with me. But as I said, a healthy persons body produces cortisol (cortef) on it's own - mine does not. SInce mine does not, and cortisol is vital to the functioning of the body, then I need to supplement with it. If a person is already producing the necessary amounts of cortisol on its own, then of course it's not a good idea to supplement with it....but if it's not producing this vital hormone, you need to remedy that. And for my treatment, we are working on the underlying causes of the adrenal fatigue, but in the meantime, I can't funciton without my adrenal gland, and it doesn't just heal on its own.

If I get a PDR can I be Dr. Elvis ?
No offense.

What I meant to say is thank you all very kindly for this thread cuz it's all too true most docs and tests don't get to the bottom of this issue,lots of good info here, much obliged !

I'm glad the info has been helpful, Dr. Elvis. lol!

I'm like weird toes, my adrenal glands weren't functioning. We need our adrenal glands. And when they can't function, they need help.

Actually, my holistic dentist was the first doctor to tell me that I had adrenal fatigue and needed treatment. He evidently sees alot of adrenal fatigue in his patients who are mercury toxic.

Then I had 4 other doctors (one conventional, 2 holistic, 1 naturopath) tell me that I had adrenal fatigue and needed treatment. All these observations were made without solicitation from me, by the way. The comments were based on my symptoms. And when the testing was done and I saw how badly impaired my adrenals were -- boy were these fellas right!

We can't really detox properly if our body is lacking the native cellular and metabolic energy that it needs. The adrenal glands play a huge role in providing that energy.

Anyway, thanks for the laughs, Elvis. That avatar of the Tron Man that you use just cracks me up. lol

SomedaySoon (Sharon)

Like heroin, steroids make you feel good in the short run and bad in the long run

Is this the voice of experience?

that was moi, Dr. Elvis, just curious.
(yup, I'm takin French now!)

No Elvis this is not the voice of experience. I've never even been drunk . You're lucky you are judgment proof (aka broke ) so you cant be sued for slander. .
As far as steroids or any other drug, you should research the side effects before taking them and just because something makes you feel good does'nt mean it's good for you.

it's fine if you don't like cortef. but honestly, stop being so damn judgmental and trying to force your opinion on us. it's getting ridiculous. and so are the comments about suing people - people can't be sued for making a joke!

Besides, we HAVE done our research. If you read any of the posts above and actually thought about it, you would see that. Sharon sited plenty of research. In that low of a dose that we are taking it in, it's barely even considered a steroid. So if someone is hypothyroid, do you think they should not take thyroid meds, which supplement what the body should be making on its own? we are not adding anything chemical to our bodies!!! we are only adding what your body already makes. if our bodies are making it, we have to add it! it's simple math here. we are not adding EXTRA, we are only adding what the adrenal gland typically makes, and is supposed to make, but it isn't because it's broken.

that's all i am saying on this topic, because it's getting absurd. you can continue believing whatever you want, and you have the right to do that. but at least actually think about the points we've made before you reply with some one-lined comment simply saying "it's bad" but without anything to back it up. and since you aren't going to change our opinions no matter how much you try to force it on us, it might be best just to let it be.

Post deleted by Elvis

There is a lot of good/interesting information on this thread. I appreciate all of your participation. Let's work together to get this information out and if we have differing opinions, great.

Let's not challenge credentials. Let's remember that it's people with credentials that got most of us here (sick and mercury toxic) in the first place.

Most people who are sharing information on this system are:

(1) People who have credentials, or
(2) People who have first hand experience.

Both are valuable.

A caring person with credentials can be a powerful force. A caring home researcher can be a powerful force as well. An uncaring person of either kind can be destructive.

If we want to challenge information that someone posted, let's post information. If we make our posts in a way that shows quality-of-character, the information will be more credible in the eyes of the reader.

Kindness gives leverage to our message. Let's make sure our message has impact.

Thanks again for all of your contributions. They are valuable and I know first-hand how many people will read them and benefit from them.

I stand well corrected, will try harder and didn't mean to be unkind, as usual Russ, you' re right! But I would like to know your angle jill on maybe your experience and what has worked for you.
I do apologize. I can be a terrible idiot.

Please understand that I resist pointing the finder at anybody, although I don't find anything you've said offensive.

I just want us all to be respectful and make sure we don't take posts from others in the wrong way.

The only specific point is about credentials. They have been brought up on this thread (and other threads) and I believe it's not useful to do so. It can be viewed as confrontational to others, so I discourage it.

I also believe that credentials have their place, but they are, unfortunately, a horrible indicator of the presence of common sense. It's best just to discern each person individually as to whether or not they have a common sense.

I have no medical credentials yet I know more about mercury toxicity, it's effects on the body, and how to detox than 99% of doctors.

Nevertheless, I use information from people who have done research to establish my understandings about mercury (etc.) and most of them do have credentials.

So...

What is the purpose of all this research done by people with credentials?

To increase our quality of life.

How?

By sharing this information with the public so we can apply it.

So...

If this information meets with its intended end, namely, to be known and understood (at the very least in its application) by the public, than, in the context of the question "What do you know?", credentials are meaningless. A better question might be, "What have you studied (either professionally or personally)?" —As personal research may be less prone to special interests and is usually done by someone who cares because they're not getting paid for their work.

Of course, in the question "How do we learn more", i.e., "How do we conduct more research", credentials are useful, but they don't uniquely qualify credentialed persons for this job. These questions are solved with a combination of knowledge and common sense, which not all persons have, credentialed or not.

When people speak about credentials, they often are actually referring to licensing, which is one of the most horrible things to happen to any industry in the interest of people because it confuses and attempts to undermine the more important and useful subject of reputation.

But I'll save that for another day.

Keep up the good work and good cheer.


"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an underground dictatorship... To restrict the art of healing to one class of men and deny equal privileges to others will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic and have no place in a republic... The Constitution of this republic should make special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom."

—Benjamin Rush MD,
Signer of the Declaration of Independence

If you are hypothyroid, your body temperature will be low. If you have adrenal exaustion, your blood pressure should be low.

In addition to the PDF, there is tons of research on side effects from "physiologic" doses of hormones. In any case ,you cant really determine what is a proper dose since needs fluctuate widely from day to day and hour to hour.
Steroids make allergies worse in the long run.

Elvis, I don't need you or anyone else on this forum to apologize to me for criticising my intellect or scientific background . I just examine the source and disregard it . My unbiased opinion is that I have at least ten IQ points more than anyone here.

I am surprized that an intellectual giant such as yourself can't see that I was joking with Elvis when I threatened to sue him . Obviously, he would have no knowledge as to my use or non use of drugs , nor my age, race , height ,weight etc.

ok, I'll just take that back then, I might need it later.
I love to hear about unbiased opinions, good for you re the IQ.
It's a wonder you put up with some of us dolts.

I studied chemistry as an undergrad, then went to med school and then went to law school passed and was admitted to the Calif state bar.

When I asked if that was the voice of experience, I meant did you take steroids, I guess you may have for the ego, ergo the super high IQ. no apology necessary?

No, but really,so ,what are you doing with all this knowledge?
Might you have a mercury story to tell?

Then there is this thing called emotional intelligence. No offense, but your eq might just be lower than those of us who post on this forum

Okay, Elvis, I really can't blame you for that comeback. She seems to have egged you on. LOL

hey, I cleaned it up , too

I don't believe the PDR is a good source for judging the safety and efficacy of physiological dosing and treatment for adrenal insufficiency for reasons stated in the article I posted by Dr. Jeffries above. For example, package inserts for cortisol still do not differentiate between the effects of physiologic versus pharmacologic amounts of these normal hormones, implying that any dosage might produce any of the grim side effects that occur only with the administration of excessive amounts. Physiological dosing of cortisone is extremely small in comparison to the enormous and pharmacological amounts of which the PDR refers.

As far as testing goes, here is but one example of one lab which does a comprehensive saliva adrenocortex stress profile. It's from Genova Labs. There are other reputable labs which will do this sort of functional testing which also will have the patient provide saliva examples over an extended period of time, not just one day.

From Genova on the AdrenoCortex Stress Saliva Profile Test:

" A powerful and precise non-invasive assay, the Adrenocortex Stress Profile evaluates bioactive levels of the body's important stress hormones, cortisol and DHEA. This profile serves as a critical tool for uncovering biochemical imbalances that can underly anxiety, chronic fatigue, obesity, diabetes and a host of other clinical conditions. It's also a crucial tool for monitoring DHEA and/or cortisone therapy.

Adrenocortex Stress Pic HormonesChanging amounts of DHEA and cortisol over an individual's lifetime may signal important alterations in adrenal function that can profoundly affect his/her energy levels, emotional state, disease resistance, and general sense of well-being. That's because adrenal hormones exert a profound influence on the body's carbohydrate, protein, and lipid metabolism, immune response, thyroid function, cardiovascular health, and overall resistance to stress.

The Adrenocortex Stress Profile accurately measures unbound levels of both cortisol and DHEA, and provides a complete circadian analysis of cortisol activity. Controlled collection times allow for accurate baseline testing and effective monitoring of hormone replacement therapy. Saliva samples can be easily collected by the patient at home or at work."

*************

"The Safe Uses of Cortisol" is pretty much the Gold Reference Book for physicians and practitioners who treat adrenal insufficiency. It provides detailed information on the various aspects of adrenal exhaustion/addison's disease as well as precise and detailed information on the dosing and use of cortisol -- the bio-identical form of cortisol, by the way, is called Cortef. Dr. William Jeffries is the author. This book was originally published in 1981, I believe after decades of research. It is now in it's 3rd printing.

None of the statements made in this body of work have been disproven. None! Despite the fact that at the time of the first publishing, the statement might have seemed contrary to popular and accepted ideas at that time.

Over the past 25 years a paradigm shift has occurred. Adrenal insufficiency is not ignored as much today as it once was. And it is treated successfully.

We all can't agree on everything, that's for sure. But for anyone that is reading this thread and wants to learn more about Adrenal Fatigue, Adrenal Exhaustion, Adrenal Insufficiency, there is plenty of information out there on the internet. Another good, reputable, and proven source to get further information is the book I've mentioned above.

And please don't rely on just one source, such as the Physician's Desk Reference, for information on treating a disease. We have at our fingertips mountains of information via computer.

As I've said in other threads -- no one has to take my word for it -- there are far more sage people who have spoken before me in other places about this topic.

Adrenal Fatigue is serious and it is commonly caused by mercury. Adrenal Fatigue can be treated. And in so doing, it can help mercury toxic people proceed at a much safer level with any other treatment or healing plans they might have to rid themselves of mercury toxicity.


SomedaySoon (Sharon)

Really, Sharon, I am just glad you keep posting on this and maybe a little opposition keeps the pot boiling, it's got to be relevant for quite a few people given the state we are in, you have brought a lot of light on to the whole subject.

Yeah obviously the brain fog hasn't affected Sharon...thanks sweetie, hope you start improving by leaps and bounds soon, or at least see some steady improvements...you surely deserve it!!!

Best love,
Sandi
xoxo

Thanks very much, Elvis and Sandi. Sandi, sorry I missed your call today. If I can arrange it, I might try and call you tomorrow, cutie. If not, we'll catch up later.


No one was more stubborn nor more resistant to taking Cortisol than I. As I said, I was in extremely bad shape and it took 4 doctors (2 holistic MD's, 1 holistic Dentist and 1 Naturopath) to pound the seriousness of my Adrenal Fatigue into my thick skull.

I had no idea what the symptoms were for adrenal insufficiency and also had no clue that I'd had this condition for many years. And I have the 17 amalgams that I carried in my mouth for 40 years to thank for it.

Anyway, people who are mercury toxic might be very interested (and be doing themselves enormous good) if they search and read about adrenal fatigue. If it is caught early enough (and not allowed to progress to a more degenerative state), it can be treated successfully with herbs, vitamins supplements, botanicals and glandulars. Unfortunately, my condition was too far advanced and I had to include Cortef (i.e., cortisol) in my treatment plan.

SomedaySoon (Sharon)

Hi Sharon....

I am sure I have to have another go at addressing the adrenal fatigue, although I don't know if it will do any good thu the chemo. And I don't know how I can possibly take another supplement....

Talk soon,
Sandi
xoxo

In-keeping with all the q's of this thread, let's also remember our k(indness)q's. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Quote from Jill - "Elvis, I don't need you or anyone else on this forum to apologize to me for criticising my intellect or scientific background . I just examine the source and disregard it . My unbiased opinion is that I have at least ten IQ points more than anyone here".

Jill, you're a legend in your own mind. I'd suggest to you that far from impressing anybody (but yourself) you are in actual fact embarrassing yourself and needlessly and childishly insulting others on this forum in the process. One has to ask why? Please stop for your sake, you sound like a kid whose just been made milk monitor.

Let's keep the forum for what it's meant for. Giving helpful advice where and when we can, IF we can, or asking questions. Egos are not welcome and are a hinderance and an annoyance to others and provoke problems rather than solutions.

excuse this Russ.

Q-uite testing sometimes, and I ain't so good at tests,
( i got IQ EQ and FQ prollems)
Here's that apology I got back earlier, it's ok, I cleaned it off.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
WHOA, I really am a dolt, just read the above and for a second I thought that was written by Russ, thank God for the comma! (I mean, cuz there wasn't one,a course)

Elvis, I don't need you or anyone else on this forum to apologize to me for criticising my intellect or scientific background . I just examine the source and disregard it . My unbiased opinion is that I have at least ten IQ points more than anyone here.

LOL, Academic arrogance rearing its ugly head yet again. You get them on every forum.

I'm an anonymous sandwich!
I really am curious,are you 2 people or one or many?Could you maybe have a number? Just gets confusing, I dont know if y'all are saying the same thing twice or ya got a real agreeable compadre.
Why I want to know I don't even know.
I get to say this once being American and all,
Hope everyone has a nice day, leastaways nice-ish!
(Pauline, this thread any use to you?)

Come on, guys. I'm beginning to think that we're acting like kids. Russ just came on the forum and mentioned kindness (he wouldn't have to if we could just mind our manners in his forum), and here we are, again in another squabble.
(not the same anon as between Elvis' sandwich)

This actually is Russ (the moderator) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, kindness is important, and I also want to mention this: If we feel that someone makes a foolish statement, perhaps it's best to let it stand. There is probably no need to point it out as others will have the opportunity so see it and make their own judgements. However, if we are compelled to point it out, let's be sure we do it in a way that inspires others to emulate.


About the IQ comments... Being a "people watcher" all of my life, I don't doubt that people have picked up on these IQ statements and perhaps feel a little "strange" about these kinds of comments.

Nevertheless, as I don't doubt that people on this forum are very intelligent, I also know that there are many kinds of intelligence. I have also found the amazingly-consistent pattern that a person who is very intelligent in one area is often equally unintelligent in another.

As an example, an intelligent research-oriented person "A" may provide excellent information in the course of their research that reveals great scientific secrets that can benefit the lives of many, perhaps in the area of health.

However, because of their personal makeup or style, person "A" often does not have the ability to apply the information to the lives of people, or even convince them to try.

That type of intelligence exists with person "B" instead, who is very personable and is very good at making complex ideas simple and appealing so they can be applied in the lives of people. This is another kind of very important and valuable—yet different—intelligence, and ironically (and by design, I believe) the intelligence of person "A" is useless without the combined intelligence of person "B".

In my own life, I have found that the the vast majority of doctors have excellent memory recall and math skills, but don't ask them to do anything artistic, especially caligraphy because you won't have anyone show up for your wedding. Also, don't ask them to hang a picture on the wall because they're liable to break their necks doing it.

On the other hand, if so many of the herbalists I know didn't have the emotional intelligence and personable intelligence that they have, they would not be able to reveal the vast advantages that alternative supplements offer over drugs in many/most cases.

I mention this to point out how dependent we are on each other. Remembering that we depend on each other should help us stay kind and humble towards others.

Even if the person we're kind and humble towards does not deserve it (which is normally not ours to judge), perhaps the onlooking person "C" will benefit from the example you set and gain respect for you while the undeserving recipient of your kindness may be moved or personally convinced to become a better person. Finally, you're reputation among all will remain high.

Everybody wins.

Thanks, Russ. That was a beautiful explaination of the different kinds of intelligences. I feel that I've benefitted from it and I'm sure that others have.

Too true Russ! Intelligence is hard to measure and in many areas of life. Isn't that how it's supposed to be? How else are we to help others with our particular strengths? It allows people to practise charity towards others. Everybody has intellectual strengths and weaknesses and gifts. Im always much more impressed by the person rather than the letters after their name.

Well said Russ, Bex.

It reminds me of the saying: "be grateful to everyone." People who are rude, unkind, ignorant, disagreeable, etc. give you an oppurtunity to practice patience and compassion.

I have actually read that people with the APO-4 gene are more intelligent and do have higher IQ's, but that we are also more likely to be affected with alzheimer's and dementia and other brain disorders because that same gene makes us poor excretors of heavy metals.

So there you go!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sandi
xoxo

I got tested for that and apparently didn't have that gene.

So I'm poisoned but just a bit dumber <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I've got no excuse <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
PAX

At the risk of being rude ,if someone's IQ is 105, Idon't want them handling my financial ,legal or medical problems.People with IQs over 120 are far more successful in almost everything including art, writing and music.
Ofourse there are many highly intelligent people who never went to college. Also there are too many people who are'nt intelligent graduating from third rate colleges like Virginia Tech.

Elvis talks about academic arrogance rearing its ugly head (your head is'nt that cute) but he and other people talk about using vitamins , supplements and perscription drugs. Who do ypu think discovered coenzyme Q ,vit c etc ? Professors at MIT, Berkeley etc.

Many people who are good at persuading people of something in the absence of evidence are sociopaths.

At the risk of being rude ,if someone's IQ is 105, Idon't want them handling my financial ,legal or medical problems.People with IQs over 120 are far more successful in almost everything including art, writing and music.
Ofourse there are many highly intelligent people who never went to college. Also there are too many people who are'nt intelligent graduating from third rate colleges like Virginia Tech.

Responding to the above quote:

I agree with that. Absolutely! But I have only ever passed on information gathered FROM qualified/experienced people. simply passing on that advice. Also from trying it out myself.
None of my information comes from "me", but from those who have studied for many years and mostly those who have gone through the illness themselves. Qualifications or not, firsthand real experience speaks volumes as well. Especially from those who have gone through the ringer. You will note that most things are not by prescription and if people wish to check the sources of the suggestions, they can do so. One example is the info I get out of the book by Andrew Hall Cutler's "Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment". You'd be surprised at how many mercury toxic people have suffered at the hands of doctors who have made them worse, qualifications and all. Sometimes one needs to be studied and experienced in a particular area like this in order to be able to really help a patient and I believe Andy is ONE such professional. He's had many such patients injured by so-called "qualified" doctors.

All the things I ever pass on on this forum are from years of me being ill and reading and being online. If you are concerned with anything I am recommending, let me know. I have tried to provide the source or links to back things up.

And people can use their own brains and check if they wish. Certainly we have all been made ill in the first place by the "qualified" so let's definitely keep a balanced view of this an realise that they do not always have the answers and do often injure patients.

Oddly enough, some of the natural therapists have been the most helpful and safe. Because of doctors, I was shoved on antidepressants. They took me off them and put me on them so quickly that I almost took my own life due to the side effects and the fact they refused to listen to my real symptoms.

One doctor who practised in some natural therapy, LITERALLY saved my life, because he put me on a candida diet. Very simple, and at the time? very effective. No psychotherapy needed! No drugs, just diet.

So yes, tell me about the qualified, so often they are stuck in their textbooks and refuse to budge. If ONLY they would venture over to the natural more often and combined the two, I feel they woudl be far more helpful to all of us. Though, would this help the drug companies? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also doctors have harmed and even KILLED patients with prescription drugs, wrong diagnosis, NO diagnosis etc etc. You read about it more often than one would like!

Don't get me wrong, we do indeed need those with the brains behind the lab work! But definitely we need a balance too. Because certainly they do not have all the answers, nobody does, so no matter how qualified or intelligent someone is, they still require humility and the realisation that they too are still learning and always will be. If one thinks they have reached the heights of knowlede, boy they can make some real horrific and embarrassing mistakes.

Jill said " Many people who are good at persuading people of something in the absence of evidence are sociopaths."

You have said on this forum that you are qualified in certain fields of medicine if I remember correctly. Where is the evidence?

Sorry about the lack a cute head, with your great intelligence I just suggest you re-read the comments, get your people straight, never said a dang thing on academia rearing it's ugly head, that was anon. Never mentioned drugs, vitamins, etc... why have ya got it in for Virginia tech? I gotta break it to you, I'm much cuter than this, I gotta degree, too.
Just when I thought we could be friends.

signed in but didn't show up,maybe trying to spare your sensitivity to ma looks?

Really? . . . I thought those people were called Lawyers! They're good at persuading people of something in the absence of evidence.


Sorry, I couldn't resist the opportunity to make a lawyer joke at the expense of the family business. lol!

Anyway, I don't know about anyone else, but after having gone through what I have, I prefer to gather my resources and information from a variety of places, including but not limited to:

1. The statues who are in search of a pedestal -- so chuffed with their own sense of self importance whilst they sit in their Ivory Towers of Academia.

2. The demi-God doctors who are "practicing" clinically.

3. The tenacious and tinkering scientists -- even if sometimes they are only performing research that might be privately funded from an entity that might present a clear conflict of interest.

4. The eager and enthusiastic alternative and complementary practitioners -- even though they might not be able to completely look at the entire picture of our complex medical problems.

5. The long-suffering souls who have experienced medical problems similar to mine and have valuable first-hand experience from being in the same trenches as me.

In my view, I think it's good to try and learn as much as possible from every source you can find. Then you collate the information, digest it, and see if it might apply to your own particular situation.

Also, after having been around the block more than a few times in my life, I've found some immutable truths. For example: Some of the dumbest people I've ever encountered were people who were Mensa Society members. And some of the brightest and smartest people I've ever known curiously would never be able to complete an application for submission to the Mensa Society, much less be accepted by that esteemed, pious, circle of brain power.

Rather than posting only contrary thoughts, jill, do you have anything that you can share with us that might help us in our quest to free ourselves of this Hell on earth that is Mercury Poisoning?

SomedaySoon (Sharon)

True, but the pivotal point here is....

That those who do so without a conscience are sociopaths, and this makes all the difference in the world. People who can convince people of things may just have a different type of I.Q.

I.Q., as it is measured by today's methods, only measures a certain type of intelligence. In my experience with people with this type of high I.Q. (I've had quote a lot), I've found them to contain the lowest amounts of common sense (generally speaking, of course). This is a vital point to realize because this is partly why we're in the situation we're in today.

Most doctors—many who have high "traditional" I.Q.— lack the common sense ("practical" I.Q.) to realize simple things, especially when dealing with chronic diseases. They just do as they're told—which happens to make them perfect for distributing pharmaceuticals in a controlled market in light of the vast advantages of alternatives. This is truly amazing. Most of them have excellent memory recall, but when it comes to doing something innovative (alternative/outside the box) with the memory; Well, this is another story.

It was so well summed up in a meeting between the Provosts and department heads (all doctors) of a college that I worked at. After a series of stupid (extremely impractical, to say the least) decisions (there were countless bad decisions made by the doctors at this institution), the head electrician said,

"You can get mad at me if you want to but it seems that as soon as you add a few letters after someone's name, all common sense goes out the window".

It's amazing to me how true this is; Not always, but often.

Spending so much time (working) at this college and experiencing so many different types of people, I have found the following to be tendencies—NOT absolute truths (so don't get angry please). These are just my observations.

The type of person that goes to extended school:

• Has good factual memory recall
• Often struggles with new concepts and prefers to morph old ones
• Functions best in a structured environment and does what they are told to do
• Prefers to be guided through a learning "process"
• Leans towards bureaucratic processes of accountability
• Lacks instinct
• Solves problems by complicating a process
• Can be idealistic
• Can make groundbreaking discoveries
• Can be overly optimistic or "utopian"
• Often is motivated by pride

The type of person who is self-educated:

• Has good concept and people-related memory recall
• Often struggles with academic process (processes that don't immediately produce anything)
• Is self motivated
• Functions best under pressure
• Prefers to learn and "do it them self"
• Leans towards direct processes of accountability
• Solves problems by simplifying a process
• Applies common sense truths very quickly
• Has a natural instinct
• Can be skeptical, pessimistic, and critical
• Often has some degree of rebelliousness

(Many people have some mixed qualities of these tow types, but the attributes above reflect the most commonly grouped features.)

Again, both of these types of people have their advantages and their inherent disadvantages, but working together, they accomplish 10 times as much. Of course, working together can only be achieved by working on personal issues which are often disliked between the groups.

For example, the extended-school person is perceived as snobby, controlling, and unproductive by the self-taught person. The self-taught person is perceived as crude and inefficient by the extended-school person. Nevertheless, if the differences can be overcome—not an easy thing to do—they can work together and achieve amazing things.

Again, humility and realizing the value of people that are unlike you is a fundamental quality necessary for this type of cooperation.


In short: Let's just take a hard look at ourselves, realize we're all flawed and that those flaws we just discovered are already well-known by all of those around us, and humbly recognize the value of the ideas and work that everyone brings to the table.


"The A-graders at school end up working for the C-graders & the B-graders work for the government."

—Robert Kiyosaki,
Investor, Educator, Inventor

Thank you Russ and Sharon!! That sums it up for me.

Actually,I can send you a copy of my LSAT. It tests analytical ability , creative thinking ,abstract reasoning and common sense and does not involve memorization in the least.When I talk to people who do poorly on IQ LSAT tests etc,whether the subject is politics social issues or any topic, I am usually amazed at their lack of logic and common sense.
Do you think that people who developed the space shuttle ,computers ,atomic bomb,discovered DNA etc were non creative ,conventional, conservative types who did'nt "think outside the box"?What does it mean to be self taught ? Everything we know comes from somewhere.
Many on the forum think that because scientists make some mistakes they lose their credibility.Even though a space shuttle blew up , I would rather have a bunch of Caltech, MIT etc scientists working on it than some of the people in this forum . On second thought, If some of these people worked on it, it would'nt have left the ground , so nobody would have been killed.
People on this forum cite books by Huggins, Breiner ,Jarone etc. Have you looked at the bibliographies of their books? They refer to hundreds of studies published in scientific journals . Do you think scientists are not creative ?Do you think Richard Feynman etc won the nobel prize for memorization?If they put you on a desert island , would you have invented computers , radios, airplanes ?
Having a good memory won't help you in chemistry, math physics or any creative field.

When I was an undergrad I found that I would get extremely sleepy about an hour after eating . According to Hal Huggins ,this is becuuse mercury displaces oxygen on RBCs so one does'nt get enough oxygen to the brain.Since I did'nt want to fall asleep in class or wherever ,I started skipping lunch and having a big meal at dinner. I now know that consuming a lot calories in one meal is the worst thing you can do to your adrenal glands.I eventually developed symtoms of adrenal exaustion -very low blood pressuse,dizziness upon standing , dark circles under my eyes, bad acne etc. While I still have various other symtoms , when I started eating three meals ,none of which have excessive calories, my low blood pressure and certain other symtoms went away.
Another way to test for adrenal exaustion is to go on a water fast for two days. If your adrenals are malfunctioning ,you wil lprobably be unable to swallow water after two days.

[quote]Jill said " Many people who are good at persuading people of something in the absence of evidence are sociopaths."

You have said on this forum that you are qualified in certain fields of medicine if I remember correctly. Where is the evidence?
[/quo What do you mean by "certain fields of medicine"? I said I went to both med school and law school. .

I hate to be rude but I never let that stop me. Several monthes ago some people in this forum showed faulty logic when they expressed agreement with the conspiracy theory re 911. The theory is that Silverman was instrumental in planning the attack and the purpose was to collect insurance to give to Israel and to destroy documents that showed corporate crime . Another facet of the theory is that Jews who worked in the buidlings were notified and did'nt show up that day. It is absurd to think that anyone wanting to carry out the attack would inform several thousand people of the impending attack and think that nothing would be done to inform the FBI etc and stop the attack .Also , the planes originated in New York and Boston and two were headed for L.A. so they would be carrying alot of jews.If they wanted to avoid killing Jews maybe they should have hijacked planes going fromChicago to Seatle .Also if they wanted to kill as few as possible, they would have carried out the attack at 4am.Perhaps they did'nt value human life. Does anyone have any proof that fewer Jews were killed than would be expected given the number that worked there on a daily basis.Also ,if one purpose was to destroy documents, there must have been an easier less lethal way to destroy them.
Is there anything Silverman has done in his 70+ years that would suggest he was capable of such an atrrocity?

Jill as you know
This is a forum, this is where sick people gather. One is hardly likely to come across a gathering of doctors, or nutritional experts. We are simply ill and toxic and mostly ordinary people. I am sure there probably is the odd person here who is quietly highly qualified, but probably not blowing their own trumpet. The rest, like any other health forum, are filled with sick people trying to find answers. to heal ourselves in anyway we can. Most of us have already been down the mainstream medical path and exhausted doctors and other experts who really do not have all the answers either it would seem. Doctors have mostly only ever been uselful to me when the health issue is obvoius and textbook stuff. Other than that, they have wasted my time and my money. There are many experts in many areas and we do the research we can to find out whether their theories prove to be helpful to us. Most of us here have already been harmed or let down by so-called experts, the highly qualified, the medical and dental industry and we are here hoping other kinds of experts and highly qualified, some working in the same areas, will undo the damage of their peers and provide us with information we desperately need, things that willl help, rather than harm or do nothing. From there we try things out, if they work, we share it with others. Nobody is claiming they got the info out of thin air, but we should also remember that even the most qualified and intelligent does not always have all the answers, which is why we need to research many of them and take the meat and spit out the bones. They are still humans afterall and still learning too.

Yeah we do definitely need these people. I dont think anybody here would claim otherwise, but let's not forget we have also been greatly harmed by them also.

I have a lot of admiration and respect for many of them, those that learn from their mistakes and listen to their patients. Sadly many do not and due to their superiority complex, waste their minds and instead develop their egos.
Professing to be wise, they risk becoming fools and can end up letting down the sick, the people they are meant to help. If they listened and had enough concern and humility, coupled with the acute mind many of them obviously have, I am certain most of us would not have such cynicism towards many of them.
Oh yeah they are needed, I consider the brain surgeons and all those people that save lives and do things I could not even hope or imagine being able to do or even study for that matter. They have my total admiration and they deserve it too.
But again, we are hardly likely to find them on here Jill, we just do our best with the info we gather from people more learned than we are and apply it and hope it works.

PS, that was me Bex above, I forgot to sign in.

Jill, if you are so dissatisfied with the members of this Forum, I wonder why you keep coming here and posting?

And I do believe I understand what you are saying about brain power and the necessity thereof.

As far as credentials go, I would imagine that there is a scholar (or two) here on the Forum. I wouldn't doubt that some amazing accomplishments have been achieved by some Forum members as well. They just have too much grace and confidence to polish their own brass in public.

On the other hand, I am completely lacking in said grace and will gladly submit my credentials for your perusal. They are old and yellowed by now but ..... Will my Brownie Leader Certificate suffice? How about the beautiful Bic Pen I won in the Third Grade Spelling Bee? Or there is that ribbon I won at the County Fair for pickling cucumbers ... will that do?

Honestly, I wonder why you are bothering with ignorant peasants such as us. It hardly seems worth your time given your exceedingly high level of education. WIth a medical degree and a law degree I can imagine that whichever field you are practicing (if you are practicing) would command a high hourly rate and much, much work. Certainly enough work that it might prevent some people from having the free time to engage with peons such as us.


SomedaySoon (Sharon)

AMEN somedaysoon. LOL!!!!!!!

Well, I'd just like to reiterate, that it was not my intention to be rude or mean. I honestly was just wondering why Jill still bothered to post. Unless I've misunderstood what she's said (and I might have), my impression from her posts is that many of us just aren't good company. That's all.

Blessings.
SomedaySoon

I don't think that very many lawyers are sociopaths since sociopaths want instant gratification . They are unlikely to work for goals whose realization is far into the future . It takes seven years plus bar passage to become a lawyer. Unfortunately, many cops are sociopaths.

Why am I here ?Just passing through I guess . It's not like I'm here all day . As far as comparing ones brownie certificate to say a nobel prize, all I can say is- Everyone's a commedian.Too bad nobody's funny.
Actually I learn from the links to research that many people post. It's also informative to read people describe their symtoms.

informative to what purpose?

Thanks, Elvis, for asking that question. I was wondering the same thing.

How can you learn from the links to research jill? research what? Reading these recent threads, I notice on another thread that you didn't take much notice of the links given and that you just prefer to look at your own notes from Berkley.

Yet you were given links from impressive sources I saw that Bex provided from a guy that was around before you were even in nappies. this is why some of these people stop learning, they can't get past their mainstream textbooks and papers long enough to consider anything else.

On top of this, your "passing through this forum" seems to be taken up more by self adulations and put downs. Not sure how this contributes to this forum or to yourself in fact.

Anybody got much out of reading jill's postings lately? aside from the sad realisation that she has a self made telescope planted up where the sun dont shine and can't quite get past viewing up it.

Jill you aint the centre of my universe and evidentally not the centre of anybody else's here. Do you think you can remove the telescope long enough to realise there is life outside of "jill". Solo star gazing could get pretty lonely.

Im surprised at the ongoing patience and tolerance towards you Jill by those on this forum who are unwell and already having to deal with toxicity in their lives, without having to get on to deal with a petulant child. Doesn't quite mix that this apparent 'adult"went through law and med school does it?

Jill did you graduate...what qualifications? and where is the evidence? and by the way, even if you had the highest qualifcations in the world, what right does that give you to lord it over people or use that as an excuse for put downs and bad manners? People are here to serve others, not to skite to them and waste everybody's time.

You have to be qualified at being human first before youll have any real impact on others.

Well, the links provided on the other thread you speak of were for anybody to read and decide on, not intended so much for Jill alone. Dr Weston Price is a pioneer in his own field. And luckily becoming more known to many of us toxic folks coming across his research and findings, but thankfully being taken onboard and applied by a growing number of health professionals out there. Dr Mercola being one and I see on some of the candida forums his methods too are being applied with wonderful results. Dr Price, being a dentist and one fully aware of the dangers of mercury and root canals, and other dental toxicity and problems, as well as his connecting many dental problems with lack of proper nutrion, I think has ALOT to offer people on this forum!

I think the proof is in the pudding in applying what he has discovered to our own diets, should we wish to do so and see what results we get.

I have to admit, in my life? I reckon it's worked. It hasn't cured me because I have many things that have come upon my health in recent years that have all but destroyed it. This diet, when I stick to it, tends to eventually lift me and give me hope. My failure is lack of persistance and also the other issues are not clear cut enough for me to have a straight answer.
Anyway, all this has completely deviated from the original subject of this thread, so sorry to the original poster!

It is very true what you say Bex as I have found taht diet has helped me ALOT also . It has proven to be one of the easiest wthings to takle so many symptoms at once. I wish you well, and keep going strong!

HI Sage, thanks for the well wishes and likewise!! Yeah, with so many problems going on at once and trying to find ways of tackling them, at least diet is something we can actually control and if it helps, great.

I use it more as a stop gap, something to just aid me to even remotely function, but I know there is much more going on that I have to deal to to get more permanent solutions.

Jill,

I do appreciate your dazzling intelligence in the areas where you have expressed it, however, it's easy to tell from your demeanor that you aren't concerned about how people perceive you. At some point in your life, you will be required to recognize how faulty this particularly philosophy is, and at that time, the moral of that story will be...

Although you may be good at some things, you are unskilled and unable in areas where others are indeed skilled and able, and you are dependent on those for their skills. Our inter-dependency will—through the natural course of human interaction—humble those who don't recognize it.

A word to the wise.


About 911.

I haven't heard your stance in it in terms of steel buildings collapsing under the circumstances in which they allegedly did, but if you happen to believe that they were brought down by jets or fire (and I don't know if you believe this or not), than you also have to believe that the laws of physics took a short vacation on that day.

It's like I always say: Most people don't believe theories like 911 ("official" story) or evolution because there is overwhelming evidence of their existence. There isn't. They believe these silly things because they simply cannot believe that the entire world could be successfully lied to. Of course, the failure to believe that the entire world could be successfully lied to is simply a misunderstanding of history and human nature.

Again, a word to the wise.


"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

—Revelation 12:9


...No offense about the "Marsha" thing. I thought it was funny and I have a feeling it won't bother you.

Many years ago I knew some old folks who studied direckly with George Gurdjieff, He was a mystic/spiritual teacher whose teachings were meant , primarily, to facilitate better self awareness. A course the guy mostly appealed to braniacs,ya had to have a lot a grey matter just to know what he was on about. Anaways, they had these long running groups and there was this one guy who irritated the hell out a everbody, the students kept on at the master to get rid a the "irritant".( I prolly got it wrong but I think they call this kind a usefull irritant a kunderbuffer,just wanted to use the word, though even if it aint right)
Sos anaways ,Gurdjieff finally got fed up with all the whinging and said, you people need to understand that if this guy wasn't here I would have to pay someone to do his job or else your work would take a lot longer.
OK, I know this ain't a school a self developement, but I just prefer to see jill as my kunderbuffer, whether thats the right word or not.
Russ, I got it on a good source that the whole true 911 stuff is comin out in the next 5 years .
Thats gonna rattle a few cages!
Who's Marsha?

Well, where i went to college, just a mile or so north of the WTC towers, there are many fine architects and engineers concerned about 9/11 also.

This is posted on the web:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7643791621546831344&q=judy+wood+at+cooper+union

Why don't you believe evolution occurred? Is it because you believe that one billion years of evolution from the primordial soup should have resulted in something more advanced than space alien elvis?
If as the bible suggests, there were only a few people in 2000BC at the time of the flood, how are there six billion now?

Does'nt the bible also say the sun revolves around the earth?

howdy jill, howza neck? Where ya been, kinda missed ya.

No the bible does not say the sun revolves around the earth.

I don't have to bother believing in evolution or wondering about so many things. I don't believe in God and Jesus because my mommy took me to church. I actually had a salvation experience a dozen years ago or so, he healed me of a few things then, he led me through so many things, and this is just another, not a fun lesson this one. I wonder what is next. I have learned many invaluable things from this current experience. I was considering taking my daughter to the doctor for one of those cervical cancer vaccines for instance, well we're past that now and she will never visit a dentist either. far as evolution, when I experienced the awesome presence of the Lord and the life that he is, we are dead compared to it, I no longer questioned him..I worshipped him. I have no doubt whatsoever that this life, this earth, is God's creation. No doubt whatsoever, And I know he has a plan for my life, in fact I am sort of living it already. I am his creation and I like it that way.

hope that answer satisfies you.

when are you going to help us sue these dentists Jill?

>If as the bible suggests, there were only a few people in 2000BC at the time of the flood, how are there six billion now?

The population of the world has exponentially multiplied in just the past 100 years. look at China.

A better question might be, if there were over 1,000,000 native American indians just 200 or so years ago, why are there so few now?

Actually, the Bible does not say that the sun revolves around the earth. That's just another piece of misinformation that is promoted by those currently holding the bigger bull-horn (mainstream media).

The Bible has predicted the future in the most amazing ways. It also has numerical perfection in gematria that is mind-boggling.

I would recommend reading Number in Scripture by Bullinger if you want to see something honest and intellectual about the Bible.

Also, I would explore the real problem with population and evolution on this post:

Evolution and Population

The truly amazing thing is the people can actually believe that complex control systems like those in the human body can evolve. The lack of basic logic behind this belief is truly astounding.

The reason many people still believe in evolution is not because there is heaps of evidence to support it. There isn't. They believe it because (1) they find it too difficult and/or socially dissenting too believe that the world could be deceived with such efficiency and, (2) They don't like responsibility, which the Bible teaches.

An interesting passage in the bible refers to the methodology used to deceive the nations of the world in the "end times":

"...For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived."

Revelation 18:23

The word 'sorcery' (Strongs # 5331) in this passage is the Greek word 'pharmakeia' (far-mak-i'-ah). It is defined in Strong's Greek Dictionary of the New Testament as follows:

medication ("pharmacy")

You might also benefit from reading this thread that reveals some tip-of-the iceberg prophecy in modern times and how we are living in the time that many Bible scholars refer to as the time of the "Revived Roman Empire"—The last world kingdom before the return of Messiah.

Bible Prophecy and Modern Law

The Bile is by far the most astounding book I've ever encountered. Nothing comes close.

It's called "the Theory of Evolution". Not "the established fact of evolution". Simply man's "idea" of what took place. It is actually a religion "Humanism" and does not belong in the science classroom.

I personally believe in a divine creator. As I see everything as having a maker/author behind it. Not one thing you see or do has come into being by chance or random processes. EVerything you're using has been created by someone. The human mind is so complex, that nothing comes close, not any computer on earth! DNA the whole deal.

Jill you are free to believe in primordial soup having all the ingredients for life and being responsible for everything we see today. I choose to believe that life can only come from life and balance for life to exist must have intelligence behind it in order for it to begin, much less be sustained.

But I'd like to know why you are on here continually to deviate from the point of this forum?

How many people were in China 100 yrs ago?Does each Chinese woman have 1000 children?According to Zinn's 'A People's History of the U.S "there were around 30,000,000 Indians until the settlers killed them or disease killed them.

If you don't believe in evolution becase someone or something had to create something as complex as (some) humans ,you're left with the dilemma of who created god.The word theory as used in science does not mean something is not a fact. Evolution is a fact. Check out talkorigins.com 's posts of the month for some brilliant discussions of evolution and perhaps you will change your mind.
You mention DNA. From studying dna one can see that modern man has been here at least 100,000 yrs and man has been here at least 1,000,000 years,long before the bible.

Life on Earth started 1 billion yrs ago.

And it seems this thread will go on and on and on and on for another billion years.

Where'd it come from? Primordial soup?

I had some a that once, over-rated. An where'd the soup come from?

Interesting fact. Charles Darwin believed in God and creation, died believing so, I believe he is even buried in a church, where he requested to be buried. He wrote that book because he needed $, it was an entertained idea with no substantial founding, but people took off with it. Don't take my word for it, do your own research. Much the way a well done movie about Atlantis would create a following of people who believe in it.

Hey Russ, email me claythrow1@hotmail.com

Even if Darwin was religious,it's irrelevant to the issue and that was 150 years ago .before advances in biochemistry, physics , genetics ,math, chemical thermodynamics, non linear dynamics ,reaction kinetics etc. It takes knowledge of those and other subjects to understand evolution and it takes years to study those fields.
Check out the website talkorigins.com if you are seriously interested in evolution especially their "posts of the month"
As far as Darwin spending years studying birds in the Galapogos islands to write a book and make money ,give me a break.

from quarks ,quirks and antimatter like you

cant get too much of a good thing

Jill darlin, I know ma quarks, I got me some quirks but I matter to me.
"Whatsa matter you?"...
(Whats the next line to that song? ...brain fog again )

Wow, I came here expecting a discussion about nutrition not creationism. Can we keep these things separate? The folks who want to discuss religion seem to kindly keep it in designated topics. I think Jill just wants to stir people up here. I've seen a similar situation happen on an anti-drugs forum recently. Some people don't seem to have anything much better to do with their time.

Aw, we know there's one on every forum.
Here, we got a couple, two, three,... an seems we just like to mix it up a bit subject-wise,too.
Jill makes me feel better about maself.
Thank you kindly.
P. S. Jill, darlin, why ain't you registered yet? Who knows how many stars y all could have by now... how's a body to show their appreciation?

Jill, your comments are a waste of space, we dont care what you believe,evolution or creation, this is about mercury poisoning people, GET IT! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

It looks like we have a TROLL on this forum!

We're all doing a great job of contributing excellent, in-depth information to those in need of it. Please, let's make sure we're all lending credibility to this information and our character by being kind to each other as well.

Remember, the good that is coming from all of the knowledgeable people who share information here hugely outweighs the differences we have. Kindness and respectful conduct in disagreement is a sign of great character. Let's be at our best.

Thanks!

"The beauty of the soul shines out when a man bears with composure one heavy mischance after another, not because he does not feel them, but because he is a man of high and heroic temper."

—Aristotle

Conflict and Kindness

Had a blast reading this thread! God knows (no offense intended to those of a religious bent) it's hard enough these Mercury Toxic days to have a laugh and find something so entertaining without parting with some major $$$$. Elvis I've come accross some of your posts and you are an absolute scream. You and others who find the humour in trying circumstances and therefore make dealing with them that much easier should be awarded major IQ points !!!! Jill you remind me more than a little of myself (more than one person has suggested to me over the years that I should have been a lawyer- I suspect that they may not have meant it as a compliment). I've learnt (never the easyway but the hardway, the easyway is for those of weak constitutions and where's the adrelaline rush in that!!). As Barbara Striesland sang "People, people who need people, are the luckiest poeple, in the world" . What I mean is you don't need to be concerned or worried about what other people think of you or be afraid to speak your mind even if it comes out as rude or abrupt. I certainly prefer it to the hypocrisy too much in evidence everywhere (irrespective of IQ quotia). Being too concerned with others thoughts or perceptions of you is downright unhealthy anyway. But everyone needs other people- maybe not right now, or all the time, but eventually- or is that another song? You need other people if only to find someone to have a really good argument with. Certainly arguing is one of my all time absolutely favourite past times. I don't want to be rich, I just want to be right and cool hard logic backed up by the facts and evidence does it every time!!! Now why do they say I should have been a Lawyer again??? To quote a Monty Python sketch, Question " Is this the room for an argument?" Reply, "I've told you once!." For 'room' substitute 'chatroom' or 'online forum' and the answer appears to be is a resounding Yes Yes Yes!!!!!!
Got to finish up now as I seem to be in I 'm in serious danger of becoming addicted to the exclamation and question mark buttons on my keyboard.!?!?!? But as Governor 'Arnie' used to say........"I'll be back".

[quote]Jill darlin, I know ma quarks, I got me some quirks but I matter to me.
"Whatsa matter you?"...
(Whats the next line to that song? ...brain fog again ) [/quote
anonelvis,
Let's face it,you're nothing but a bunch of subatomic particles.]

Juicy.
I was not the one to bring up the topic of evolution.I am however the one with the scientific background to understand the subject. As far as having nothing to do ,I graduated UC Berkeley with honors,went to medical school and then to law school and passed the bar exam.What do you do? Are the most intriging things about you the fact that you have a juice machine and got pregnant? I have one and have been pregnant several times.
I would'nt be on the internet researching dentistry if I did'nt have multiple problems which I now attribute to dentistry. Otherwise I would find dentistry to be insufferably boring. I'm not here to pass my time.

I can't say I've been enlightened by any of your comments.

Well, I guess juicing vegetables and having children don't rate too high on many people's list of achievements. If academia is what you value then I have qualifications there too, as do many others here, but I don't suppose we tend to swap GPA stats because this forum focuses on mercury and amalgams.

Maybe if you let us know about the problems you are having, and what help you would like, you would find our comments to be more relevant to your situation?

Meanwhile, i'm wondering whether poor Andrea -- or anyone else concerned with adrenal fatigue/insufficiency -- has gotten all her questions answered. Jill's curmudgeonly approach which is filled with self adulation and general put downs got us a little side-tracked. That's probably precisely what she was hoping to achieve, by the way.