News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Hi everyone, this is a really serious and difficult point. For years I was told that one should never chelate if they still have amalgams, as this will increase the mercury coming off the amalgams. And I have always believed that until just recently.

I have also heard that the other side to this is, you should be chelating right away so you can begin to reduce the mercury NOW, rather than wait. And that chelation does not and cannot pull more mercury from amalgams, as it is not even in the oral environment, but rather already swallowed into the system and working on the mercury already in the blood.

I am totally confused on this. I see health professionals both arguing and contradicting on the same issue. Normally I feel it is best not to risk it, but rather use diet and basic support supplements and then get the amalgams out. However, this is not so simple.

There are some people already who have had some amalgams out and have become almost totally debilitated by it, so bad in fact, they cannot even contemplate getting the rest removed they are so poisoned. Now here they are, with some amalgams STILL in, trying diet, supplements, the whole deal, cleansing this, cleansing that and on it goes and just about going out of their mind because of the toxicity from the previous removal. Literally nothing is working or helping.

To suggest getting the rest of the amalgams out for people already pushed over the edge from the last removal, sounds pretty unthinkable. So what can they do???? They've tried the "safe" way and it's not helping.

Then to suggest perhaps chelation "might" be the other option, of course people will say NEVER do that. But then if not that, what else is there??? Sosick on here is a classic example of someone with amalgams who was too sick to even contemplate amalgam removal. She started chelating and can now "contemplate" going through with it at some point. Symptoms are more tolerable. So what are we to make of that?

If chelation should never be done with amalgams, how is it that her symptoms have been alleviated? Surely that should not even be possible? If she stops chelation then the symptoms come rushing back with a vengence.

I know that amalgams shoudl be removed, that is the first option, but what hte heck do you do with people who got so poisoned by one part of their removal, they can barely function? There is actually nothing someone that poisoned can do unless they chelate.

For example, I went into see my dentist who has about the cleanest dental office you can go into. He's biologic, but very fussy about keeping his office as clear from mercury vapor as he can. His office is also new, so he was able to start from scatch and get an extraction system running to clear our the vapor from the mercury removals he was doing on patients.

I came into see him, (I have no amalgams), for other dental work, but was only there initially for consultation, nothing else. From being in the office itself, I got mercury poisoned. The symptoms began only an hour or so after I saw him, I even notied something wrong while I was in the office, but they hit me later on.

I was supposed to follow a healthy diet and supplement programme, which I did but I was so poisoned by the vapor exposure, I coudl not even benefit from the diet or supplements. I was almost out of my mind and in a stupor from the toxicity. Eachday went by and no matter what efforst I made, I was too toxic to even think straight. The dentist would not let me chelate at this point, because I was supposed to be preparing my system for that, which makes a lot of sense. However, becuase of the office vapor, I was now a total mess. Trying to follow his advice, I resisted chelating and instead I waited going through hell for weeks on end and no change. Finally I coudln't take anymore and I started chelating and only then did my symptoms began finally to start improving. Yes with the aid of the diet and supplements, but they were not able to lift that kind of poisoning from me at that point. Only chelation did.

So what I'm saying is this, if someone is poisoned enough, no amount of this or that, may help them if they are loaded up with mercury to where they cannot even think properly. And chelation was the only way I could lift those symptoms.

This is why I am starting to wonder if those who still have amalgams and are in that kind of poisoned position may not have much other choice, at least temporarily.....

Does anybody have experience with chelating with chelating with amalgams still in???? what happened and was it worth it?? or did it make you long termly far worse? or better?

I'd really appreciate hearing this. thanks.

HI ya Bex- I have read most of your blogs as I find what you have interesting and sensible. I am part way thru having fillings out the holistic way. I had 2 taken out friday and now it is sunday. Yesterday I noticed pains in my ankles and wrists and in the web of my hands by the thumbs ( which could be the weather symptoms it has rained here the last 2 days) but I dont think so. Pain from rainy weather is usually in my legs, as is the same with other family members.
After reading some of this forum, I think it is wise to eat very well during this time making sure that you are getting all nutrients you possibly can. I am taking about 6000mg of vitamin c a day and malcolm harker general tonic 2x a day, garlic oil tablets. I thought in the next couple of weeks after everything I have read on here that I would beef it up after having them all out. To be honest being a very sensitive type I am very worried about long term problems. Thank goodness there is help on this forum- Would love to talk to you Bex via email as we are kiwis as well
Thanks Maddy

Hi Bex

To me it makes sense to get all amalgams out before chelating espcially with ALA and DMSA. With chlorella, cliantro seaweeds etc who knows, I mainly have only come across negative reactions or lack of progress. e.g. Although there is the odd adult who claims benefit how many autistic kids have got on well and recovered from chlorella etc. There is only one chlorella I would try and that is by elyte, supposed to be grown in glass tubes, not from the ocean. But I have not tried it and have made significant progress with the ALA and DMSA 3-4 hr protocol

On the dentist side, if you go to one who specialises in amalgam removal its highly likely they have vapour in the atmosphere which will effect you. I am sure I felt this in one dentist is visited in the past. However I found one that used a air filter for mercury vapour, it was positioned next to me during the proceedure. I also had a nose mask for an outisde air supply, a dental dam, charcoal tablet given, you name it. But the air supply, the air filter and filter I think is critical. I had no reaction at all from this dentist. In comparison an amalgam I had taken out with no nose mask else where left me in a bad way for a yr.

Just my opions and experience, hope it helps

Phil

FYI air purifier used in dentist I went to
http://www.allergybuyersclubshopping.com/iqair-dental-air-purifiers.html

Hi Maddy, good to hear from another New Zealander. I am really sorry to hear about your symptoms and yeah it's really common to get worse and you wonder how on earth that can be prevented...becuase it seems some get better, some get worse and yet both may well have gone to the very same dentist with the same procedure.

YEs, it is REALLY wise to eat well and take some helpful supplements because it's one way the body can begin to improve/heal. If not, you can find yourself going in constant circles and the toxins can just keep going around, because the gut and liver are overloaded from other toxins (candida etc).

I'd more than happy to chat via email. I'd be really interested to hear what dentist you went to etc. Here is my email - signposts8@hotmail.com

Hi Phil, I guess it's better for most to not chelate if they have amalgams, but I allways wonder what those who are too ill can do if they cannot even get their fillings out? I mean so poisoned that they can't go through anymore amalgam removals, unless they are even somewhat functioning. So that side of it makes me wonder, especially if they have exhausted everything else.

I get what you're saying though and I'm in both minds about the whole thing. I remain confused. It seems many people are onto the Andy Cutler chelation protocol, which is to my mind probalby the safest around. It's great you have made significant progress and I am hearing that more and more with those using his protocol with DMSA and ALA. So it's always encouraging to hear that, because I recommend him to anybody.

Yeah, true, biologic dentists, though "mercury free" in the respect they are not using it on patients, are still removing it, so it will indeed be contaminating their office environment. The one I went to is an expert though and uses the most sophisticated extraction systems to remove mercury vapor from his office, and he had a new office, so even then, i got poisoned. AMazing eh? And this was a new office, he hadn't even done that many previous removals!!!! I was in there for about a 2 hour consultation, so I really copped it obviously. Most people don't notice it, but I am hypersensitive to mercury vapor to the extreme and unfortunately I cop it.

So I coudln't go back anymore. That was it for me.

Yeah, it's especially important when you're having your own amalgams removed to get as much protection as possible for sure. It's hard to believe some dentists are so slack about this and remove the most toxic metal known to man without really bothering to protect the patient. Luckily you got some of your amalgams removed by a good dentist who did do that, but you saw the difference when you didn't witht he other one.

I have had both, and oddly did not notice much difference, so not sure why that was. HOwever, I swallowed some amalgam on my last removal and got severely poisoned by it.

Yeah I am not sure about chlorella and cilantro either. Andy is against them for mercury, he feels they are risky. Though he admit cilantro can be used in some cases, though he prefers not to as they are not clear how to use it in order to do a safe chelation with it... so he sticks with DMSA and ala, taken as you are taking it.

What I would like to know, Bex, is exactly where does Andy Cutler suggest the mercury come to a rest in my body if I do not take an aggressive approach to remove it while it is easily accessible in my bloodstream?

Obviously, it's a no brainer, that anyone with amalgam fillings always has some mercury in their bloodstream and their body is constantly, albeit unsuccessfully without some help, trying to get rid of it. So the body copes best it can and usually not well in the long run from what I can tell.

I fully intend to be full of DMSA prior to and after any amalgam removal. I will probably make an immediate next stop to my DR for a major DMPS dump, and then see the colonic lady the very next morning. Have no doubt, I do not intend to sit and sheepishly wonder if my body can handle even a little bit of it, oh gee whiz will I feel better tomorrow?? I will take all precautionary measures available to me. Anything else is negligent in my opinion, knowing what I know.

Hi sosick, I have no idea! To me, logic also tells me that it makes no sense not to chelate with amalgams still in because the chelators are in the body/blood stream, not the mouth. So i cant figure out why they should increase mercury off amalgams??? It's beyond me.

I mean look how it's worked for you? If indeed it was increasing mercury from amalgams, you'd be far more of a mess than you were, yet you're improved. That's part of what has made me think that it maybe wise to start chelation as soon as possible to start reducing mercury NOW, rather than later if the person is too sick to even go through with amalgam removal.

I can't figure out Andy's reasoning behind this, as they never seem to really explain it, they just say not to do it. If he has explained it, I hope someone can direct me to that explanation.

Anyway, so much of this and what he has achieved himself has been through self experimentation to a degree, so not everything that we think is correct, so often it's got to be tried to see and if a person gets better whilst chelating with amalgams, as you said it's a no brainer.

You have absolutely no idea how much better I feel. Bex, I know you are sick but your hands are working. I couldn;t reliably say that two months ago. I have only gotten one nasty headache in the past couple months too, and that is when I tried following your advice to not do my cilantro/DMSA routine in the eveing.

The headaches are the worst.

I did get a pretty heavy metallic taste in my mouth after the 2nd DMPS IV, but only that one time, and no big deal to me because i get that normally on a general bais from time to time because of the amalgam fillings. It did not affect my health, in fact I felt marvelous the next day.

I always feel wonderful the day after the DMPS. My doctor gives me a heavy duty round of IV vitamins after every 5th EDTA too, and that makes me feel wonderful as well.

I know I should just log in but I am trying to leave and get some sleep...

Bex, the whole premise behind dmsa and amalgams still in is that the chelators are supposedly present in the saliva , that having direct contact with the fillings.

anyway, thanks Bex for brginging this subject up. (you know how important it is to me)

am going to bed bed right now, had one of the worst days of my life, my brain's been aching all day, still does, feel like a deadman.

Mike

Hi Jinx, thank you for passing that onto me. I did not realise that might be possible. If it is? then one wonders is it still worth chelating if the DMSA has a good grip on the mercury anyway?

I don't know, but I only know that for some there does not seem to be much of a choice in the matter. They are not functioning as it is and if chelation helps them, even with amalgams? I think it maybe worth it.

I know that the guy who makes NDF says it is safe to use with amalgams. NDF Is made up of nanonised chlorella and cilantro and he says it is ok to use with amalgams, but he asks that people brush their teeth with some NDF on their brush before taking a dose first.

But again, some people do not tolerate chlorella or cilantro at all. He is very careful though, he only advises to start with TINY doses, even ONE drop of NDF in water and working up from there based on tolerance. Much more comes into this also, liver supports, diet, the lot. All work in together in allowing the person to detoxify more safely and effectively.

It doesn't make sense to say that chelating releases more mercury from amalgams. Everything releases more mercury from amalgams, why choose chelating as the culprit.

Chewing your dinner releases more mercury from amalgams but highly unlikely any of us will survive for long without eating. Touching your teeth together releases more mercury from amalgams. Amalgams are always releasing mercury, it is an unarguable scientific fact that even the ADA does not deny.

Chelating is not the enemy.

That is true! Mercury comes off all the time, through chewing and hot fluids and where does it go? Straight into the system.

So perhaps chelating agents at least can grip some of this released mercury. I mean it's happening anyway, so maybe the chelation in the saliva grips onto some of the mercury coming off through chewing and hot fluids?

It's certainly very interesting and something to think about.

Read this page.

Instability of Amalgams -
Formation of droplets on the surface of non-gamma-two amalgams

http://mercuryexposure.org/index.php?page_id=19

Good point, you might pass it along to Andy Cutler for a revelation.

When I was poisoned, every tooth in my mouth began to ache and I have not generally had many issues with my teeth as an adullt (most damage done by an insurance greedy dentslut when I was a kid).

I had no idea what was cauising my teeth to suddenly all ache. After a couple months of chelating, after the DMPS which gave me a metallic taste in my mouth in particular, my teeth have stopped aching and returned to normal for the most part. I am pretty sure by now that the aching was mercury in the tissues of my gums and stuff.

Ahhh had an EDTA nd DMPS IV today, earlier in the morn,,, just finished off a dynamite vitamin packed smoothie and I will, hopefully, wake up like a brand new creation in the morn.

Sorry about the typos. Very sorry.

G'night Bex, have a nice day on the other side of the earth.

Well, I could but I doubt Andy would respond. He doesn't anymore. So I have ceased ever emailing him since.

That is really interesting about your teeth and yes, sounds like it probably was mercury deep in the teeth/tissue and I hear it also collects in the jawbone. The very fact the DMPS helped that, says it all.

In fact, DMPS has a higher affinity to mercury than does DMSA. DMSA is primarily for lead toxicity, but can be used for mercury also and is effective. Though not quite as much as DMPS apparently.

It's just wonderful that you are able to chelate, even now, and find some stability. Just think when you get them all removed, you will simply be continuing the same chelation and getting this all finally out for good.

Hope you wake up feeling like a new creation again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Thanx, I hope tommorrow will be better for me. Today and previous days have been very bad. Im sticking to the diet, but am very ill right now. "Hoping" it might be part of a bit of detox, but otherwise if not, I'm in a fix!

Cheers.

I find this crazy. People who take any type of suplements who are unaware of having silver fillings. This would mean anyone with silver fillings even though they arent merc toxic cant take any type of supplement such as antioxidants like ALA or any things(ALA is used for glucose balance too).

I think alot of people on here are taking things quite far and worry too much...The more you worry the worse symptoms you can get and I know this as I have sufferred with it and used to worry about little things and they seemed so bad.

I dont see how it can pull mercury from the fillings but do know it helps detox mercury or could pos mobilize it thats why you feel unwell but saying if you have fillings you shouldnt take any supplements that may chelate is impossible as everyone has at least 1 or more silver fillings. average adults have at least 8 apparently.

sorry for the last post if it sounds quite rude I didnt mean it that way. I just get frustrated and want to help people because I know what its like to be thinking what you can and cant do. I have been in that position.

Everyone has so many contradictions and some take things way too far. Im just saying I know friends who take ALA and chlorella(For vitamins nutrients) and for other things (Nothing to do with mercury or amalgams) and noticed they have at least 8 or so fillings and they are unaware of chelation or amalgam illness and have no problems what so ever. just letting everone know.

The only things I think are bad are things like DMSP and DMSA stuff as they are tru chelators for heavy metals etc.

It's ok I understand your frustration. But people have different reactions to different things and some people do fine on just about any chelating agent and others can be seriously sick from them.

Yeah, some do ok on chlorella and ALA, but others do not. ALA is more powerful than DMPS and DMSA in chelating mercury!!! It penetrates the blood brain barrier and can remove mercury from the brain, the others cannot do that to any clinical degree. They are good to use to reduce body areas.

This is why ALA is better used later on in the programme, because one is wiser to reduce the blood first, or ALA could grab some of that mercury and take it with it across into the brain. Though it could come back out again, it's just better to reduce the body levels first.

Chlorella is fine for some, not for everybody. I hear some people get very sick from it and cannot use it at all, some do wonderfully on it.

It's really not a wise thing to say don't worry, just do what you want, because people have been seriusly hurt and do need to know the risks. Otherwise we're doing a disservice by saying nothing.

One can take supplements, but there might be certain supplements that maybe too much for someone poisoned. Again it's down to the individual and what they tolerate and what works.

Believe it or not, though DMPS and DMSA are pharmecutical products, I have heard no worse problems from them than I have heard from some natural products. It's mostly about the mercury.

I know a guy that was doing well on DMPS IV, but then got put on cilantro and alpha lipoic acid, chlorella and he was an absolute mess. Regretting it bitterly and tried to lay a complaint about the professional who did this to him. Now he had no worries or concerns at all intiailly, he jumped in boots and all. He said he WISHES he had been more careful and checked things out.

But again, they'll be patients that woudl have done fine on that, but perhaps not on DMPS. It is a really difficult area. So difficult, that I hear so many differing responses to many different things, my head spins.

But I look at a protocol that quite a number seem to do ok on, and that for me is a pretty good indicator that it maybe a good bet. And one that if one tries it, they are unlikely to cause long term problems even if they find it doesn't agree with them at the time of taking it.

It is also worth pointing out Anon that individuals apparantly excrete mercury at varying rates. So one person with six amalgams in may be fine because they excrete rapidly and the mercury does not build up in the tissues and organs. Another person with the same 6 amalgams who excretes more slowly may be sick because mercury is building up in the body slowly doing damage.

phil what dentisits have u used

I don't know, I was using ALA prior to getting a good dose of mercury via the dental drill but I didn't use it much because it made me feel lousy, i just didn't know why back then.

I am still wary of it. I know it does defintely chelate real well because I now recognize the smell of heavy metal secretion in the bathroom. However I get so constiipated from it I still cannot tolerate much, though I would like to because that heavy metal smell in the bathroom is a good sign, but the constipation is not unfortunately. I was also getting nasty headaches after eating one of my favorite foods with lots of garlic until I started aggressively chelating, I can now eat the garlic stuff again, but I am sure to take some DMSA within a few hours afterward because i know better now.

I wish Andy Cutler would show up and express his opinion on the saliva bound mercury item. I think his is probably a very good formula essentially, haven't read his book but get a lot of info here... but letting mercury settle just because you still have amalgams truly does not make sense to me. Not to mention it was also killing me.

I think my morning fruit/whey/vitamin smoothie routine is very helpful in me being able to successfully do this with amalgams also. and the cod liver oil, I took a huge turn for the better after starting with just a couple teaspoons or a tablespoon of cod liver oil per day, selenium too, I added that daily and it has made a difference, very good to take a selenium supplement.

Hi my thoughts on this are, the tooth is living tissue with a nerve inside. Any chelator travels into the nervous system, organs, etc etc could pull mercury where it goes depends on being fat/water suluable. If you have amalgams in it then makes sense that a chelator could pull mercury from those fillings. e.g, even things like copper bands, garlic, what ever you rub into the skin will get absorbed. Why could a chelator not draw some mercury from the amalgams in teeth.

Phil

So what if it does? The chelator binds it, so no harm is done and your mercury burden is still lessened. If it's close enough to the surface to be bound by the chelator either through the bloodstream (eg; gum tissue, ligament) or saliva chances are excellent it's going to release the next time you brush your teeth or eat something anyway I would think. So why not bind it with the chelators? If it's not bound and eliminated it sails away and does damage where ever it lands. Then you have to chelate harder later to release it, plus heal from it.

I have 10 amalgams still in my mouth and would end up curled on this couch within a week if I stopped chelating. I actually almost feel better (almost, not quite) now than I did before the mercury poisoning incident. prior to that I attributed some minor aches and pains simply to aging. For sure my head feels better. I do need to start working out again to regain my muscle strength though. Though I have been doing a lot of digging in the garden heh. My organic cilantro will be ready soon. Amazing, mostly volunteers from last year, they sprouted in the snow all by themselves and leven later snow did not deter them... such a blessing.

Also you know, here, everyone talks talks talks about their mercury problem. what they don't usually talk about are the other heavy metals that are probably also bothering them, chances are excellent they don't know about those. But we have them, lead, aluminum, bismuth, tin, uranium, whatever. Everyone has a combo of something. If you live in this world, you have accumulated something, it's a given. Chelating not only rids the body of mercury, but also lessens the burden of those other unknowns which create more toxicity when combined with mercury.

which I think is why my doctor ran several sessions of EDTA on me before he would do weekly DMPS also.

HI yeah, the problem with mercury is, what I read and heard, it seems to allow other metals to more easily do their damage. Mercury also damages the blood brain barrier and allows easier penetratin of other toxins.

Mercury tends to cause a person to start retaining other metals and not let go of them. Also combinatin of metals makes each of them more toxic, than if you just had one main metal. Sometimes even small amounts of differing metals is worse than a larger amount of one metal.

I reckon that sosick's testimony here of what happened when she chelated speaks volumes to me. She has 10 amalgams! how is it than with ten amalgams, she not only wasn't completely ruined by the chelation, she was improved by it and continues to need it to keep her functioning.

So this is what got me thinking more about this whole thing. Many things we eat are going to show up in saliva and increase the uptake of mercury, as will hot fluids, and chewing, and I don't know anything that can rally stop than other than the person fasting on cold water.

I think chelating agents may not be any worse than the rest, if anything may at least have a chance of grasping the released mercury more firmly and ensure a tighter grip and a safer escort out, rather than allowing it to build up...

It's definitely interesting though. I would need to hear others that have chleated with amalgams and see what happened to them. But again, even people without amalgams can find chelation intolrable, so it'll be very hard to tell.

Keep in mnd Bex, I am aggressively chelating via IV with the Dr.

I am not sure self-treating or simply using oral chelators alone would have the same effect. I use the oral DMSA but still have to go in for the EDTA/DMPS once a week to continue feeling normal. I am going to try going 8 or 9 days this week, I can tell when I need it, I start going down real fast after a certain point.

... wreaking havoc on my budget the IV chelating.

g'night, have great day, will check out that site over the weekend.

That's true. Perhaps the IVs are what allowing the other products to better do their job and become tolerated. I don't know, but obviously your doctor has a good grasp of all this and knows when and how to do what.

He must have studied and figured out how to mobilise mercury and bind it in the right ways. That's great. I have an audio tape that has a big conference of doctors on this very issue. Some experts got up to talk and one lady in particular (doctor) spoke abut DMPS IV and said that it is excellent BUT because of some doctors misusing it, she said it nearly ruined it all. It has got to be used correctly.

So again, the doctor has got to basically play by the rules and do this all properly or he/she risks causing injury to their patients and sadly it's happened many times. A great pity.

I don't get it, so sick, why do ya not just have those nasty amalgams out and then chelate? Ain't it a lil cart before the horse? Not sayin it don't work, but why? Sounds kinda basakwards to me .Whats your reasonin, genuinely curious.

I was too sick to even consider getting anything done except the chelation up until a few short weeks ago. I went exploring different options with an few different dentists during that time though, decided most of them were idiots.

I do have a real dentist that is suppose to real good at the removal starting that later this month.

My doctor is probably on that tape, he is one of the top doctors in the alternative med field. he studied in Switzerland.

yea that was me not logged in.

Hi sosick, I would say that if you were removing you burden at least blood level you would feel much better, yet you say if you stop chelators you feel really bad. You have also done a few IV's which are strong but again do not seem to have made any permanent recovery. To also add to what could be a continous stream being pulled into the body from your amalgams you are going to be putting lots of stress on the kidneys and liver by this and going no where and maybe even doing ireversible damage. Thats even if its all being eliminated some may be dumped/stored somewhere. I have not seen anyone get better by this approach and most have gotten much worse in the long run. Just something to consider but thats your choice, if anyone else is thinking of doing this though I would advise to research as much as possible first and join a few forums to see more on how people generally recover with no regression

Phil

speaking from my own experience : I tried using cilantro and chlorella before having my amagams out and It really messed me up for a few months ,but everyone is different and each person has there own toxic level and will be affected differently, (I't all just a roll of the dice )

The mercury bound to a chelator will subsequently release that bond and bind to enzymes etc which is why you dont want to increase your mercury exposure by chelating before amalgam removal.

Cilantro is ineffective if it is'nt fresh.