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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25254
03/20/08 01:03 AM
03/20/08 01:03 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
NZ
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NOTE TO CREATIONISTS: "Quotes from Linda": It is rather disingenuous to tell me to "see this," post a link in a second or two, and then expect me to spend hours refuting it. That is why I have asked if we can discuss specific examples here. I've also made the point to Russ several times over that entire websites and links do not constitute proof. Anyway, as I said, there's no need for me to refute Hovind's claims. The 300 Creationist Lies site covers them pretty comprehensively It's what I call "Make your point to me here, rather than telling me to browse a whole website." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Enjoy.
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25255
03/20/08 03:07 AM
03/20/08 03:07 AM
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Note to Bex: Please look at the title of this thread. Russ posted creationist links in a locked thread so I thought in the spirit of fairness I'd post links to evolutionary science sites in an open thread. That's the sole purpose behind this. If you'd like to debate a specific point with me I will do so without letting a link do all my talking.
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25257
03/20/08 09:42 PM
03/20/08 09:42 PM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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What do we get if we expose a lie? At a nickle a pop I could get quite wealthy off Talkdeceptions.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25258
03/21/08 03:18 AM
03/21/08 03:18 AM
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More unsubstantiated remarks? Present some evidence that evolution is a lie. I've been waiting.
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Earning nickels
#25259
03/21/08 11:33 AM
03/21/08 11:33 AM
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What do we get if we expose a lie? At a nickle a pop I could get quite wealthy off Talkdeceptions. In exposing a lie, you would have to be able to substantiate that it is, in fact, a lie. That would require you to show two things: 1. The information is factually incorrect. 2. The author of the information, knew it was factually incorrect yet presented it as if it were factually correct. I certainly would not pay you a nickel just for your claim that something is a lie, since you could be in error. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> BTW: If you could show that evolution is incorrect, you could become quite rich. The Nobel Prize is worth $1,000,000.
Last edited by LinearAq; 03/21/08 11:36 AM.
A faith that connot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets. -- Arthur C. Clarke
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25260
03/22/08 01:22 AM
03/22/08 01:22 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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Long as people are prob'ly gonna wander in, how 'bout they get something worthwhile for their trouble? The Magnificent DINOGLYFS - DINOLITS, A Finnish creationist site. The dinosaur extinction myth gets hammered here. So will your machine if you're on dial-up, but it's worth it. http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Dinoglyfs.htm
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25261
03/22/08 03:20 AM
03/22/08 03:20 AM
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Have you considered that people might have been coming across dinosaur fossils for as long as people have been around?
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25262
03/22/08 06:30 AM
03/22/08 06:30 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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I was too busy considering how agriculture could fail to involve biology & genetics. Gotta say I'm a bit incredulous.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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The eyes have it
#25263
04/04/08 01:25 AM
04/04/08 01:25 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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The Eye Design Book is something everyone should check out. Lots of information, and you can click on pictures to get a good look. I'd try to tell you all how good this is, but 1: you wouldn't believe me and 2: I'd be making an understatement.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25265
04/09/08 02:03 AM
04/09/08 02:03 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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I don't regret one penny of the money I spent on In the Beginning was Information by Werner Gitt. This book, and other writings are now available free online!
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The eyes have it
#25266
04/09/08 09:03 AM
04/09/08 09:03 AM
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The Eye Design Book is something everyone should check out. Lots of information, and you can click on pictures to get a good look. I'd try to tell you all how good this is, but 1: you wouldn't believe me and 2: I'd be making an understatement. Yes, it is one incredible book filled with baseless assertions like "Most living creatures and some plants have individually designed eyes." An of course, "Obviously, it has taken more than natural selection of random events to produce and optimize so many different eye designs. In technology work, increasing complexity often requires more intelligence, planning, and power." Yet he doesn't back this up with anything at all. Here's another interesting assertion: "If one takes the probability of each necessary cell occurring, it approaches a near impossibility, but putting an eye together with the cells as a given or starting point also provides a near impossible probability." This claim is made but no supporting calculation or baseline information is provided. I would hope that he is not relying on that probability fiasco that Bill Dembski put out.
A faith that connot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets. -- Arthur C. Clarke
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Re: The eyes have it
#25267
04/09/08 02:48 PM
04/09/08 02:48 PM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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Yes, it is one incredible book filled with baseless assertions like "Most living creatures and some plants have individually designed eyes." An of course, "Obviously, it has taken more than natural selection of random events to produce and optimize so many different eye designs. In technology work, increasing complexity often requires more intelligence, planning, and power." Yet he doesn't back this up with anything at all. Here's another interesting assertion: "If one takes the probability of each necessary cell occurring, it approaches a near impossibility, but putting an eye together with the cells as a given or starting point also provides a near impossible probability." This claim is made but no supporting calculation or baseline information is provided. I would hope that he is not relying on that probability fiasco that Bill Dembski put out. See how good it is? Just look how much <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/taz.gif" alt="" /> it can stir up in an evolutionist! I only know of one type of eye design this site lacks. I haven't been able to find it anywhere on the internet, but I may try again. It's a periscope design with reflectors, and it's found in the deepest parts of the ocean where there's almost no light.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#25268
04/21/08 06:15 AM
04/21/08 06:15 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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Lest anyone undertake to debunk talkdeceptions, a pretty thorough job's already been done. No need to waste very much time. http://creationwiki.org/index.php/Index_to_Creationist_Claimshttp://creationwiki.org/index.php/FABNAQ#Observations_that_change_creationismThere are a couple of other pages like these. Pretty sure AIG has one too. But I'm too lazy to hunt them up just now.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
[Re: Russ]
#47925
02/27/09 02:59 PM
02/27/09 02:59 PM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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I find it amusing that many of their lies are so polywrong they can be debunked different ways using independent lines of reasoning.
While this is a weakness, it is also a trap. To look at a polywrong argument, spot an error, and assume the rest is valid would be to fall into the trap and accept untruth as truth. One should be careful not to fall victim to excessively stupid arguments.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
[Re: CTD]
#47926
02/27/09 03:03 PM
02/27/09 03:03 PM
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I find it amusing that many of their lies are so polywrong they can be debunked different ways using independent lines of reasoning.
While this is a weakness, it is also a trap. To look at a polywrong argument, spot an error, and assume the rest is valid would be to fall into the trap and accept untruth as truth. One should be careful not to fall victim to excessively stupid arguments. Then bring one up and show us how easy it is to debunk it. I believe that is what Russ is asking you guys to do.
A faith that connot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets. -- Arthur C. Clarke
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
[Re: Kitsune]
#52205
07/24/09 06:53 PM
07/24/09 06:53 PM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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http://edinburghcreationgroup.org/The Edinburgh Creation Group has some of the best videos I've ever seen on origins research & related controversies. I disagree with a couple of points: 1. There's no such thing as 'natural selection' 2. The "geologic column" cannot be salvaged and employed as a shortcut by designating certain evoages as pre-flood, flood, and post-flood. Nobody's perfect, and these are minor disagreements. They do an outstanding job explaining things so that everyone can understand, and doing their homework. Please try to make time to see what they've got. I watched over half the list back when I could watch videos, and the chances of disappointment are quite low.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
[Re: Russ]
#52235
07/25/09 01:27 PM
07/25/09 01:27 PM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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I thought it was somewhere - guess I forgot where to look. Kinda feel silly, with the name of this thread & all.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
[Re: CTD]
#52269
07/27/09 07:22 AM
07/27/09 07:22 AM
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OP
Master Elite Member
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,797
Maine, USA
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Much Evidence Exists for a Worldwide Flood Twentieth-century geologists taught the familiar maxim: "The present is the key to the past." But now that catastrophic processes are widely employed to describe the strata record, twenty-first century geologists are wondering whether "marine flood sedimentation is the key to the past." Geological strata and their contained marine fossils provide critical evidence that the ocean once covered the continents, even the highest continental areas. Extremely widespread strata blankets argue for an intercontinental or global flood. The Sauk Sequence extends throughout North America and appears to extend into Europe. The Tippecanoe Sequence also covers much of North America and may well extend into Europe and Africa. There are also intercontinental redbed sequences, intercontinental tuff beds, and coal-bearing strata cycles. Granular, water-charged sediment flows result in very rapid stratification. Dilute flows produce thick sequences of plane beds, graded beds, and crossbeds by sustained unidirectional flow. Such flows also produce thick sequences of hummocky beds by sustained bidirectional flow. Concentrated sediment flows produce thick strata sequences by abrupt deposition from liquefied suspension or evenly bedded strata by flow transformation to a tractive current. These and many other obvious processes are leading many geologists to construct a global flood model for earth history. Continued: http://www.icr.org/geological-strata/
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More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#52270
07/27/09 07:24 AM
07/27/09 07:24 AM
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OP
Master Elite Member
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,797
Maine, USA
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Geological Evidence Indicates Rapid Formation There is extensive evidence for the layers of strata in the geologic record being laid down very quickly, similar to the processes observed when Mount St. Helens erupted. Rapid global formation of sedimentary rock beds is evidence that the earth is thousands of years old. The major formations of the earth’s crust are sedimentary rock beds. These were formed by rapid erosion, transportation, and deposition by water. There is no global evidence of long periods of time between these layers or indications that these layers took long periods of time to form. For example, sandstone is a major feature of the lower part of the Grand Canyon. The same rock layer is found in Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, South Dakota, the Midwest, the Ozarks, and in northern New York state. Equivalent formations are found across wide portions of Canada, eastern Greenland, and Scotland. The flood that covered the earth formed the large geological structures that we can observe today. Continued: http://www.icr.org/earth-formation/
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More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
#52271
07/27/09 07:35 AM
07/27/09 07:35 AM
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OP
Master Elite Member
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,797
Maine, USA
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Re: More interesting links (missing from the "Welcome" thread)
[Re: Russ]
#52362
07/30/09 03:05 AM
07/30/09 03:05 AM
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For a response to these posts, see the Global Flood thread.
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For a response to Global Flood thread, see these videos
[Re: Kitsune]
#52366
07/30/09 07:39 AM
07/30/09 07:39 AM
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OP
Master Elite Member
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,797
Maine, USA
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Re: For a response to Global Flood thread, see these videos
[Re: Russ]
#54005
10/31/09 07:37 AM
10/31/09 07:37 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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I thought I posted this before, but I don't see it around. This is an outstanding book, and free! http://www.creationism.org/books/CooperAfterFlood/index.htmEarly on, it made for slow reading, but once it gets going, you won't want to stop. What it's about: everyone lets on the Hebrews are the only source for knowledge for things that happened in Genesis. Not so at all! Others know which of Noah's sons they come from, and have independently maintained their histories. This is stuff no evo-pusher in his right mind wants you to find out.
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The eyes have it
[Re: CTD]
#55514
01/30/10 02:26 AM
01/30/10 02:26 AM
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Master Elite Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,315
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I only know of one type of eye design this site lacks. I haven't been able to find it anywhere on the internet, but I may try again. It's a periscope design with reflectors, and it's found in the deepest parts of the ocean where there's almost no light. I have found out the name of the critter: the brownsnout spookfish. Links: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wi...rrors-to-see-through-deep-sea-gloom.htmlhttp://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...of-the-deep/story-e6frg6so-1111118511683And the best: http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/12/spookfish_eye_uses_mirrors_instead_of_a_lens.phpFinally, for comedy, you can watch clowns congratulate each other on having the blind faith to say "evolution did it". Would such congratulations be in order if this weren't an amazing design? Would there be anything to brag about? http://richarddawkins.net/articles/3504(If this last link doesn't work, try googling and take the same link from the google result. Sometimes you have to do that for some reason.)
Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson
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