News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Rather than having comments about MSM buried in the raw garlic thread, I decided to start an MSM thread. MSM isn't just a great source of sulphur, an antifungal, and a great detoxifying agent, it is also very antiinflamatory, antiparasic and helps combat constipation. Some report a great increase in energy levels when using MSM. Others claim relief from fibromyalgia.

I guess some critics here will tell people to avoid MSM if they are mercury toxic since msm might move around too much mercury without excreting it. I don't buy this argument though.

http://www.all-natural.com/msm.html

Hi JK,

Some people do well on high sulfur, some do not. High sulfur can indeed mobilise mercury and sometimes so much so that a person can feel re-poisoned after eating or supplementing with it. I remember when I was very mercury toxic, I found sulfur foods would stir the mercury up and make me much worse. Possibly a bit of mercury may have come out in the process, but it was slow and very painful to go through. I could barely tolerate high sulfur until I had less mercury. In the end it was better to use proper chelating agents to get the job done more cleanly and safely (for me), which then enabled me to consume more sulfur, because of having less mercury to bounce around.

Sulfur does not have a strong enough bond on the mercury to be classified as a true chelating agent. It is a mobiliser, rather than a chelator. I used to eat sulfur foods in hopes that the worsening of symptoms would mean more mercury would come out, when mostly i was just bouncing it around more. I don't doubt some must have come out, I'm sure it did due to the symptoms and the crying and salivating would worsen. But I wonder too how much damage can be done in the process of so much wild mobilisation.

However, those that do well on sulfur should use it if it improves their symptoms. Mercury does compete with it afterall and tends to deplete it. It's just the extra sulfur unfortunately tends to cause problems in those already high in sulfur apparently.

I am not really sure how it works. I only know some do well on it, some find it causes too many symptoms. E.g. some do well on garlic, others may not and find it hurts them too much due to it's ability to mobilise mercury and quite dramatically too. I found garlic supplements more powerful in that regard than the actual food garlic.

I used to find eggs, onions, cabbage etc would stir up my symptoms alot when mercury toxic. I had to reduce them or at least not have too many sulfur foods in one meal.

Bex, often feeling worse means that parasites or candida are being killed, or that your body is detoxifying. I don't buy the argument that people get worse while taking in more sulphur. How people feel temporarily and whether they are healing are two very different issues. With illnesses that give the body a toxic load(mercury poisoning, candida, parasites) one typically needs to feel worse temporarily in order to heal. Perhaps those that have unbearable short term symptoms are overdoing it, and using too large a dosage?

JK, I know how it is to feel worse when candida and parasites are dying. I've experienced it. This was not quite the same as the sulfur food reaction. Part of it may have been yes, but there is absolutely no denying the mercury symptoms. I know them well. And yes some people do get worse from high intake of sulfur supplements after the mercury has been mobilised more than their system could handle. I'm not denying die off, but when you've had mercury for many years and candida, you do get to become more familiar with yourself and the symptoms.

over time it resolves, but I'd always be careful when dealing with mercury and the movement of it and not overdo it too much, or you can really pay for it. I did a few times and sometimes went overboard in my passion to get well and remained sick for a long time following until things settled a bit more and that was usually with high sulfur. Chlorella did the same thing to me too.

Die off isn't pleasant, but it wasn't quite the same as mobilising the mercury too much. Yes I would manage to get some of the metals out of me over time doing this, but as I said it was a speedier, but slow and unpleasant. I don't think anything that moves mercury is going to be ideal or perfectly safe. But leaving it there isn't ideal either and I didn't want to stay that way, so I chose to move it, so hopefully some of it would come out.

In the end, I just found proper chelation and following the Cutler protocol appeared to keep it more even and tolerable and much more efficient and really got the stuff out. But even then, if I took DMSA the wrong way, it would send me into a fit of horrible symptoms. Yet taken correctly, it controlled them much more. DMSA taken the wrong way for me was much worse than consuming high sulfur foods admittedly. The high sulfur food reaction was bad and would increase my symptoms ALOT and make me feel absolutely revolting and I would increase the crying and salivating etc, but not quite the same as the DMSA, which would make me go absolutely crazy and often stay up all night. I mean so bad, it was psycho stuff.

So for me, as poisoned as I was and sensitive as I was, I had to find ways of getting the stuff out, without actually risking harm to myself and even others that were living with me. It was nasty feeling ill whilst detoxing, but it is far worse when the effects are mental and you can become highly aggressive and nasty and even threatening to others or to yourself.

Apparently two people committed suicide after their doctor put them on high dose cysteine or NAC (high in sulfur) because they were not warned about the increase in symptoms from the increase in mercury mobilisation. I have experienced this and been close to suicide because of it also. It really cannot be compared with just "die off". There is something about mercury that goes much further and can tip you over the edge when it's in motion and going all over the place.

Again though, some people thrive on high sulfur and need it. It is very individual and you simply have to work out where your tolerance is and how much you can take, because it is very healthy but if it's causing symptoms beyond tolerance, it is wise to cut back.

I used to get heart arrhythmia which went away after excluding sulphur foods from my diet. Last week I bought some MSM in desperation to get rid of some mercury in my system and caused my heart to flutter again. Weird.

I am to frightened to take it again, and won't eat eggs, chicken and leeks. Dr Hesham advised me over the phone about excluding sulphur foods after I told him about my heart arrhythmia. He was right!

Garlic is another one he told me not to eat, I CAN'T stand the stuff!

You should find that once your levels of mercury come down, that sulfur foods shouldn't bother you anymore. I was bothered by them quite a bit with high mercury, yet I don't notice much anymore.

I actually have far more problems with candida etc, than I did then, because I struggle with viral infection which has lowered my immunity far more. Yet... I can handle sulfur much more. If sulfur reactions were to do with candida, I'd be getting far worse reactions these days, yet I don't. So I know it was mercury back then more than yeast/parasite die off.

I can now eat eggs, broccoli, onions galore with no issues. Because it really isn't mercury that is the big issue with me these days. I actually used to get wheezing in the lungs when I had sulfur foods, just the same reaction I had when I had hot baths, because I would stir up the mercury and of course, it would also go into the lungs (or at least be mobilised). I actually had the same reaction after entering a dental office from breathing in mercury vapor. I actually wound up one evening so bad I had to go into emergency and that followed mercury vapor inhalation.

Bex,
That is so weird you mentioned this:

>>>>Apparently two people committed suicide after their doctor put them on high dose cysteine or NAC (high in sulfur) because they were not warned about the increase in symptoms from the increase in mercury mobilisation. I have experienced this and been close to suicide because of it also. It really cannot be compared with just "die off". There is something about mercury that goes much further and can tip you over the edge when it's in motion and going all over the place.<<<<<<

This was real informative for me! I have been feeling a little moody lately, and am glad you brought this to my attention. I do take NAC and am cautiously taking MSM.

Bann

I am taking MSM and am reluctant to try NAC. MSM is a natural substance present in foods, though not in large amounts. NAC though is even referred to as a mercury chelator on some websites.

http://www.all-natural.com/msm.html

Hi Bann,

No problem, better safe than sorry I guess. However, had that doctor put those people on low doses to start to check for adverse reaction due to their high toxicity of mercury, that may have been avoided. I have been that state myself and the urge to end ones life is almost overpowering because you're in such a state of torment from so much mercury being mobilised at once.

It truly is frightening and this is why one should be careful when taking anything that can do that with mercury.

Some people do refer to anything that mobilises mercury as being a "chelating agent", but a chelator is something that has two thiol groups that have a stronger grip on mercury. Most sulfur based supplements/foods only have one, so they can move the mercury but do not hold onto it strongly enough and mostly stir it up. I think if a person copes well on sulfur and their body can eliminate the mercury more efficiently once its been stirred up, they maybe ok. Others may not.

NAC is really good for the liver and Andy does recommend it if a person tolerates it and does well on it. But again, always start low and increase as tolerated. Mercury detox symptoms are usually unavoidable no matter how you try and detox it, but they should not be totally intolerable and lead to a case of a person becoming a danger to themselves. I did that to myself many times but taking anything and everything just to get the mercury moving, so hopefully some of it would come out. I did not really understand that I could have damaged myself in the process from bouncing the mercury around wildly.

MSM may be naturally present in foods but ALA is naturally present and produced right in our bodies, and found in foods, and many people have terrible reactions to that.

I really think Andy was right when he said there are two types of people. Some need more sulfur to get better some need less, and I don't think there are any magic bullets to getting better when dealing with mercury. I'm pretty sure it deals with how fast one is able to excrete mercury, and you can't stir up any more mercury past that limit without feeling really terrible.

My personal experience is that I can handle high sulfur, always could, but can't handle supplements that could possible be methyl donors (methylcobalamin, betaine, the coenzyme of folic acid, etc..).

I'm really glad to hear that MSM is helping you, but its not safe to assume that it would help everybody.

Hi Gawson,

That's exactly right. Just because one person maybe ok with it, does not mean it's safe for everybody else. Andy has usually been highly accurate in his statements and has studied this for many years in a lot of depth, even experimenting on himself first. He knows what he's talking about regarding mercury, and to me, more than most I know.

Yeah, I think he said those low in sulfur, may do well supplementing it. But those already adequate in sulfur, may find the extra sulfur is then used to mobilise the mercury. HOwever, I would also point out that I showed low in sulfur on a hair test, yet when I supplemented it, my symptoms of mercury increased too much and became quite intolerable.....so I assume that mercury perhaps goes where sulfur should be and supplementing sulfur then competes with the mercury and displaces it, so one gets an increase in symptoms.

I really do not understand what the actual cause is, but I do know that sulfur definitely can move mercury around. An increase in symptoms is not a bad thing because we expect that when you're detoxing mercury. But if things get too much and sulfur is really not a chelating agent as such, but a mobiliser, it is really worth the agony if the sulfur isn't really chelating the mercury properly? I don't know. I used to eat some anyway because I didn't mind some increase in symptoms as I really did feel that a bit of mobilisation wasn't always such a bad thing and perhaps it did enable my body to excrete a bit of it.

But as gawson says, pushing things too far, simply mobilises more mercury than the body can handle and you just wind up with redistribution/back fire effects which can be serious in some cases. Hindsight is always a good thing. And the impact of chlorella at times when I was highly mercury toxic was so bad, that I remember taking the stuff, mobilised mercury and I wound up a psychological mess, crying, screaming, pulling my hair and ending up between the wall and my bed and also shaking. Insane as it sounds, that's what wild mobilsing of mercury can do when it's been moved all over the place and there is no longer any control of any symptoms.

Who knows what damage those moments did to me, and whether more mercury then went into the brain and/or other more sensitive areas. Sometimes chlorella didn't do this as bad, other times it was horrible. Yet some people use chlorella and do wonderfully on the stuff, because it does indeed have an affinity to mercury. But as with anything, I was unable to cope with mercury being moved around. And of course, went back to Cutler's protocol again everytime because nothing else was really tolerated.

Hello Bex. The link I gave in this thread emphasizes that the main feature of MSM is its detoxification capabilities. Perhaps you felt worse while taking MSM since your body was detoxifying? As far as feeling worse at certain times, I can't pinpoint the cause. It could be detoxification of toxins other than mercury, candida die off, parasite die off, or perhaps mercury being pulled out of organs and getting into the blood before being excreted. None of these are bad things, but they may make you feel worse in the short term. I say give msm a chance. If someone gets intolerable symptoms from it then they should stop using it immediately, however if their symptoms just get a bit worse then they may be healing because of it and should continue taking it. My view is that msm should be taken unless there is a very good reason not to take it.

Hi Jk,

I have no doubts about MSM detox abilities with any toxins, but I'm saying that it's still high sulfur and high sulfur does indeed mobilise mercury. It just depends on how much a person can handle I guess before symptoms may become too much. I just took as much as I could handle of sulfur/foods. I don't recall taking MSM though (but it's naturally contained in some foods anyway).

However, I am taking MSM now in a supplement (in a multi) and it's ok. No real issues, even though my candida these days is worse due to virus, but the MSM isn't causing any die off or anything so far. Not that I've noticed and if it is, it's mild.

I think sulfur is great and very healthy, but mercury unfortunately isn't the kind of stuff you want to over-mobilise either, unless you can cope with it and you do ok. Possibly depends on how well your body can excrete what's been stirred up into the blood stream (as you said). I really need strong chelating agents, rather than mobilisers....though mobilisers may actually allow chelating agents to better do their job, if the mobilisers stir up the mercury and bring it into those areas a bit more, so the chelating agents can grab onto them....

It just depends on the person JK. If you do ok on the stuff, I'd say go for it. It'll be doing you good. However, you definitely don't want to continue if you're how I was with sulfur and wind up a mess on the floor crying and salivating like a pscyho....that kind of puts you off overdoing the mobilising agents. Again, I think it was mercury because I never had that with candida/parasite die off, evne when I took strong antifungals.

And as I'm taking MSM now and have candida these days much worse, and noticing nothing from it.

I mentioned before that I got bad symptoms from methylcobalamin and many other supplements that had the word methyl in it. The reason I believe is that they donated their methyl group to mercury in my system, resulting in methylmercury which is a very toxic form of mercury that can cross the blood-brain barrier. I would get horrendous insomnia from methylcobalamin yet could take other forms of b-12 without a symptom.

I searched up MSM real quick and got this


So if it is making you feel worse, it could be because it is methylating mercury in your system which could increase mercury levels in the brain. Not something I would risk, especially knowing how I reacted to other methyl containing supplements.

Many things have detoxifying capabilities. Brassicas (Cabbage, Broccoli, etc..), Garlic, Onions, Turmeric, etc all can help your body detoxify, and include a variety of natural sulfur compounds.

I read a few more articles about MSM. There are mixed opinions about it, however it seems like Andrew Cutler and others recommend not taking it while doing chelation. That seems a bit counter intuitive, however I guess he has a reason for that. I am not chelating now anyway(taking a break for several weeks) so I guess I will keep taking MSM.

I am confused about MSM. I guess many health practitioners are also confused about msm when it comes to those with mercury toxicity. Some articles say the mercury inactivates sulphur, and those who are mercury toxic need so much more sulphur than the general population. Then there are comments about msm causing mercury to be moved around quite a bit within the body without being excreted. It is hard to know what to believe. Perhaps both statements are true, and that msm is still necessary even though it may have both positive and negative actions. There is only so much garlic, eggs, and broccoli one can eat. getting enough sulphur without taking msm might not be so easy. comparing msm to ALA then saying that msm is not a good chelator implies that it is a bad supplement and should not be taken. Those who are mercury toxic take msm for its general detoxification properties, and not to chelate mercury. I guess avoiding msm while chelating is a good idea though.

Yes, I'm confused about it all as well. I guess the only thing anybody can do is try things at small doses and just watch for reactions and whether those reactions are tolerable or become frightening (which they can do so).

I would be careful though, there is plenty of sulfur from certain foods without adding too much extra from supplements. I have had horrific reactions to supplementary garlic at times. One of which put me in the emergency and the reaction by the way lasted 7 months. Whatever the garlic did, seemed to shunt toxins into my gut area. Which is obviously a weakness area for me. I was in the worst pain imaginable and used to spend many days crying and lying in bed holding my gut. It didn't take long before a rash came up on the skin around that very area, hot, itchy, pink (just like mercury rash)....and interestingly enough, I found after using very small doses of DMSA (cutler style) that the rash around that area started to get lower and lower down (as the toxins did) and eventually I was able to reverse the problem. I assumed at that time it shunted metals into the gut somehow because of the potency perhaps of the allicin/sulfur. I don't know exactly why or how, but I'm afraid now of garlic supplements. Yet I don't ever remember getting that from garlic food, raw or cooked....so it's a mystery to me. It happened twice by the way. All because I was stupid enough to try it again thinking that it could not possibly have been from garlic supplementation. I thought it was too weird. Once bitten, twice shy? I had to be bitten twice before I finally "got it".

With that by the way, I also had severe brain reactions too, not just the gut. Frightening stuff and had severe light sensitivity as well. It the strangest thing. I do not personally believe garlic supplements were to blame, I am certain there is something very wrong in me and all that seemed to occur following virus and wisdom tooth removal. So it made me wonder if it was to do with infections, rather than anything else, that may have done something to the gut area. I don't know. I do know that cavitations (jawbone holes) can produce potent bacteria and that bacteria can form extremely potent toxins when someone takes sulfur amino acids like methionine, cystein etc, expecially if there is still mercury there. Producing methyl mercapton instead apparently. Very odd, but there you go. That "may" have been what happened to me.

I also found, even before this, that garlic supplementation definitely increased the mercury symptoms and sometimes intolerably. It's definitely powerful stuff. It moved the mercury for sure (post amalgam removal). Yet oddly enough, I took it when I had amalgams and did great with it....so I cannot understand how. I guess because my body wasn't really in "detox" mode with mercury as much until after they were removed.

I just think sulfur foods/supplementation is just something a mercury toxic person is going to have to judge for themselves by their own responses. Again, it is too individual to be certain what's safe for everybody.