News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

This is a small but very common example of how information is excluded, deranged, or spun to fit the evolution agenda.


Recent T.Rex discoveries confound evolutionists

In 1990 biologist Mary Schweitzer discovered soft tissue-including blood vessels and even whole cells when it was necessary to break a supposedly 65 million-year-old tyrannosaurus rex huge thigh bone that was found in Montana's Hell Creek Formation. Schweitzer said that the vessels were flexible and some could even be squeezed. After extensive testing, there was confirmation that this T. rex bone even had hemoglobin (red blood cells). This was surprising because the blood should have completely disintegrated if the bones were really 65 million years old.[71,76]

This discovery is unexplained by evolutionary thinking, which suggests that millions and millions of years have passed since this "King of Dinosaurs" met its demise. Schweitzer is puzzled and cannot understand why this bone was not mineralized. "It's very amazing. It's utterly shocking, actually, because it flies in the face of everything we understand about how tissues and cells degrade," she said on MSNBC.[76]

On the BBC's Science In Action programme* she said, "This is fossilized* bone in the sense that it's from an extinct animal but it doesn't have a lot of the characteristics of what people would call a fossil. It still has places where there are no secondary minerals, and it's not any more dense than modern bone; it's bone more than anything."[71]

In 1995, Joe Taylor, a professional dinosaur excavator and a biblical creationist, was curious about the hip girdle of another T. Rex that was found in 1916. It was found in the same Hell Creek Formation where Schweitzer's T. rex bone was found. Taylor was amazed that this 65 million-year-old specimen still had the appearance of skin on the sacral vertebrae. He sent a sample to Azusa Pacific College in California and had it scanned with an electron microscope by Professor Mark Annitage, who found that the bone had collagen filaments intact inside the bone.[76]

The presence of collagen suggests that this supposedly 65 million year old fossil was not completely fossilized. Annitage states, "It can't be but a few thousand years old."[76]

Since unfossilized dinosaur bones are being found more commonly, and frozen mammoths with flesh still on the bones are well-known, it has become impossible for evolutionists to deny the discoveries. So, they see without seeing. That is, they proclaim it to be a previously unknown form of fossilization, or simply accept the fact that organic material can survive for millions of years given the proper conditions.[71]

Source:
http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/t-rex.htm

Home:
http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/arguments.shtml#tr

Hi Russ T

They’re amazing findings aren’t they? Fascinating! I’m yet to meet or hear of an ‘evolutionist’ who is confounded by this, maybe you mean astounded. The red blood cells were not intact in fact the cells were just cell like structures in the bone that may have originally been blood cells. Haemoglobin was not found though some degraded fragments of it were identified. If you believe otherwise please cite original sources and we’ll see but

The bones were not permineralized but they were fossilized, it is a misunderstanding to say otherwise. Permineralization is the process which often fills in the empty spaces in a bone with rock, this had not happened with this specimen, it may even be possible that some original material remains though none has yet been indentified. Again if you disagree evidence please.

None of that contradicts the idea that the bones are 65 or so million years old. This is supported by three independent radiometric dating methods for the rocks around the bones and amino racemization dating of the sample itself.

DNA has never been recovered from any dinosaur bone, the same is true in this case, though with luck some day it will. DNA is apparently capable of lasting for that long under the right conditions but those are very rare conditions.

Much organic tissue is fairly simple chemical compounds, even the complex carbon compounds that make up the structure of our bodies is stable for virtually unlimited time in the right conditions. Such conditions are rare but there is no reason to suspect that bone and blood could not last in a desiccated state for 65 million years under the right conditions. This is the closest we’ve yet come to finding any such thing but the finding unfortunately fall far short of the spin and hype the Creationists have put on this.

Again if you disagree with any of this please cite original material and we’ll see if you can make a case, otherwise I think people should take the original discovers words for it when they say that what they found were fragments of hemoglobin and osteocalcin (a bone protein) and some interesting cell like structures that resemble blood cells though they contain very little of the original material at least in all the tests conducted on them so far. They did not find fresh blood or preserved soft tissue just degraded fragments of haemoglobin and osteocalcin and some interesting fossil structures that look much like cells. The bones were certainly very well preserved, amazingly well preserved, but the basic creationist argument boils down to personal incredulity. We’ve already recovered similar materials and more from bones well over 300000 years old and there is no reason to suspect that they would not last indefinitely if their preservation conditions were maintained. This discovery pushes back the known length of preservation but that’s all it does. Preservation is mostly affected by factors other than age so they are not suitable for dating a sample unlike radiometric clocks.

In Reason

Russell

Amazingly, your entire theme seems to contradict the statements made in the article. It is as if you have some secret inside information that even the professional evolutionists giving their professional opinions don't have access to.

You are a king-spinner indeed.

I personally don't like people who spin information because I consider spinning the same as lying.



I would ask that people carefully read the original article. Again, your conclusions are completely disconnected from the original material.



It does a whole lot more than that.

Honestly, you are an expert spin doctor. As for me, I believe in intellectual honesty.

Let the reader beware.

If you really believe in intellectual honesty, why don't you produce true rebuttals with evidence that supports your view? Instead, we see articles from anti-evolution web sites that use other anti-evolution web sites as their quoted references for quotes from scientists.

None of the scientists involved in the original testing of the T-rex bone, has stated that the bone is less than millions of years old.

I could be wrong though. All you have to do is produce any part of the original reasearch that states otherwise. Even an opinion/conclusion by a scientist trained in relevent fields of study would do a lot to support your point of view.

I haven't like Russ T's approach either, but, I don't necessarily put total stock into the "learning of man" so to speak. Not on something like this. I doubt scientists who already think what they do would be open to something that would seem to blow what has already been established in their opinions.

Hi Russ T

I agree that my opinions contradict the statements made in the article you have cited but my statements are in agreement with the evidence presented by and the conclusions of the people who found and analysed the bones in their published works on the find. I don’t see it as a fault to disagree with the opinions of the unqualified writers you have cited. Can you actually point to any evidence that contradicts my views or is it just the opinion of the unqualified writing on YEC websites?

I personally don't like people who spin information because I consider spinning the same as lying.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I would ask that people carefully read the original article.

I agree but do yourselves a favour, read the original articles no these opinion pieces by unqualified people. Read the scientific papers written by the people who’ve actually seen and examined in great detail these bones.

Again, your conclusions are completely disconnected from the original material.

Given that your article contradicts the findings of those who’ve actually seen the bones is that surprising?

Honestly, you are an expert spin doctor. As for me, I believe in intellectual honesty.

Do you really Russ?

Let the reader beware.

Indeed!!

In reason

Russell

Dinosaur Shocker

An accessible article from Smithsonian.



This would be a cool discovery, but I don't see why it has to mean that the fossil isn't old.



Interestingly, the original findings are being contested. Another team of scientists, practising good science, decided to break open other fossilised bones from different fossils, to see if they also contained any soft tissue remnants. Turns out that these samples are possibly modern-day bacterial slime. The jury is still out:

Soft Tissue in Fossils Still Mysterious: Purported Dinosaur Soft Tissue May Be Modern Biofilms

Thank you for those websites!!! Very very interesting. Of course you know what I think : )

That wasn't the point of my post. My point is that RussT doesn't feel he needs to bother with real evidence at all. His opinions are all he needs and all he bothers to write down.

He doesn't even bother to provide anything other than his opinion and anecdotal testimonies to support that sacred cow subject of Mercury Amalgams. You would think that he would at least provide some substantive support for the harmfulness of that.

His opinion of your version of Christianity is well documented. His evidence in support of his opinion is no more valid than the evidence he provides in support of his opinion about evolution.

Obviously, you don't think his opinion about the Mormon Faith is valid. So how do we determine what is true and what is not? Do we just accept everyone's ideas as true?

As for your point about what scientists would be "open" to, let me provide an example.

On July 5, 1687, Sir Isaac Newton published his treatise on the laws of motion. In that paper, he stated that time and space were absolute parameters. In other words, time and space did not change and were separate from each other. For over 200 years, no one questioned this. Then another minor scientist named Albert Einstein, turned that idea on its ear by showing that space and time were interlocked and actually changed with changes in velocity and proximity to mass. Einstein earned great acclaim by going against an established theory and proving that his theory was more correct.

The point is that scientists obtain great personal fame by overturning established theories. If the theory of evolution was a flimsey as RussT claims, then at least one scientist would break out of the conspiracy to become famous and gain everything that the fame would provide.

Hi Linear, I can see your point on all this for sure. I base my ideas about science on a mixture of what evidence we have and the revealed truths and accept the TOE as only true to a point.

Of course I don't base my beliefs on what others say, though. I've bucked the "system" since I was 15 and endured quite a bit of garbage for what I believe. I converted at a young age, but it was the real deal... And my testimony has only deepened with time. But I've stood alone on it the majority of my life. My only support now is my 2 girls, my husband when he is strong himself and my current ward and a few dear friends I've made over the years. No extended family support, though. (And God himself - at times He's ALL I've had).

Yah, Russ has royally ticked me off and he is overly sure of himself. (But part of me thinks its not quite how he feels inside). This is his forum quite literally. His podium.... His soapbox. It doesn't mean I agree, but I don't hate the guy. And in essence I do agree with much of what he says on general matters. I think he has a good heart. I do think he over generalizes and judges.... And of course I disagree with his view of the church. I've noticed that he bases most of what he thinks on things he finds on the internet. It has been proven he has gotten his sources wrong with his most used quotes regarding the TOE and he certainly finds bogus junk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I suppose I cannot comprehend someone with that much....I guess incredulity is the only word for it. Sorry Russ.... He seems to be hanging on for dear life at times, though. The false bravado is more a front IMO.

And his is the pinnacle of your faulty thinking. This is precisely what I've been going on and on about.

If you really believe this—and I honestly believe you do—then you have completely neglected the central theme of my position against evolution, and you reveal that you have done nothing to research it.

You see, you completely fail to see the massive level of control of information in our time. Sure, you can admit that it can happen in other times in history, but for some reason, you still believe that people learn from their mistakes. Inside you believe that it just could not happen in our time.

How fantastically naive.

The control of information is more rampant today that in any time in history. The news lies to people constantly. Textbooks are funded through large foundations by large corporation that have an agenda; They do not spend their money without expecting a return. Governments are run by a boy's group that has managed to attach a yellow fringe to every flag in the world, but you have not noticed.

But you fail to see this enormous elephant in the room.

With some research into this area, you could learn about the communist infiltration of the United States and you could learn about why it does not matter who is elected president. You could gain an understanding about why the Federal Reserve Bank is not a government entity. You could learn about EO 11110 and it's relationship to the Kennedy assassinations.

You see, if you research this, you realize that we are living in a global Nazi Germany, in a very real manner-of-speaking. Information control is paramount in this deception and works with an efficiency never before seen, thanks to technology.

You would also learn why the government absolutely insists in getting MSG into our bodies, or mercury into our vaccines or air (chemtrails), or fluorides into the water.

When you research these things, the puzzle comes together into a mosaic that is easy to understand.

Unfortunately, people are lazy and selfish (for the most part) and don't want to know the truth because it requires work and because it's scary.

The incredible irony about this entire situation is that you are participating in and fully supporting the very system you claim to despise. You are playing your role perfectly. You have even gone so far as to become a disinformation agent, and you don't even realize it.

And you may ask how "they" have managed to get you to participate in this horrendous process without you even considering the seemingly-absurd prospect.

Just how could they possibly do such a thing?

They are able to manipulate you because they know you better then you know yourself.

Yet miraculously, Russ T, you're still not discussing the topic at hand or rebutting any of the evidence they have provided. Moreover, you aren't even providing evidence for your conspiracy theory which, according to you, is so blatantly obvious that you laught at anyone who doesn't accept it. This of course begs the question, if it is so obvious (that evolution is false and part of a giant propaganda machine) then why are you the only one aware of it?

Stop talking about how well-informed you are, about how you've done your homework, and prove it for once. Who knows, if you spent half as much time discussing the many topics here as you did inflating your ego you just might have a solid argument. Why not give it a try and see.

Linear AQ: Would you explain what "Location: Antarctica" is about?

It means that I am in Antarctica right now. McMurdo station on Ross Island, just off of the Ross Ice Shelf.

How utterly presuptuous of you to believe that you have even an inkling of an idea about what I am thinking, what motivates me or how live my life!!

If the NWO or World NAZI Government has such a stranglehold on information, how do you "know" so much?

I swear! You can't even discuss one thing without bringing up the conspiracy of Satan, NWO, or Max Headroom trying to take over the world!

You must be a laugh riot at parties...discussing the conspiracy instituted by Jimmy Carter to make all our tongues stick to the roof of our mouths by changing the formula of Peter Pan Peanut Butter! It's spread to Skippy and Jiff by now!

You lap up and spew forth every minor league "world domination" rumor as if it were a royal decree from Jesus Himself...and you have the gall to call me naive.

Animal Crackers!!!

Fantastically Naive, Amazingly Naive, Stupendously Naive



Ironically, all of these things can be determined, to some extent or another, by your actions.

I am very aware that you, along with a lot of other people, are unable to make the connection between the global conspiracy (NWO) and the evolution myth, but I cannot help you with that.

Why?

Because you simply don't want to know.

All of the information and resources you need to discover, document, and prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that these things do exist and that they are connected are available to you.

What you do with it is entirely up to you.

Again, just for clarity, I repeat your former quote which is the pinnacle of your fallacy.



In fact, many scientists have broken out, but they don't receive any fame. In fact, if you're not a believer in the right religion (evolution) it's pretty hard to find a job in certain fields.

Indeed, this is censorship, suppression, oppression, and tyranny, but like I keep saying, these words describe the standard MO of those who founded, promote, and maintain the religion you ascribe to (evolution), and because the same people are heading up the NWO, you will find that this NWO contains the same character attributes that evolutionists often blame on Christianity:

Censorship, suppression, oppression, and tyranny.

How ironic that we live in the freest and most powerful nation in the world (only for a little longer, unfortunately), and it happened to be founded on Biblical law. People who don't believe this have no idea whatsoever what they are talking about.

Yes, I know that there were masons involved in the founding, but nevertheless, it was founded in Biblical law.

And as I said before...

And his is the pinnacle of your faulty thinking. This is precisely what I've been going on and on about.

And finally...



LindaLou made a statement a few months ago that is nearly identical to this. I used the exact same phrase to describe it:

Fantastically naive.

You see, you both have done exactly what the Bible tells you not to do. You have put your faith in mankind.

I understand well that you do not see the elements of the grand conspiracy that the Bible predicted, but you will, regardless of how hard you try not to see it.

And as for PWCCA who says that I'm off topic...

How ironic it is.

We finally reach the pinnacle of the fallacy of evolutionists (blind faith in mankind), and you tell me I'm off topic.


When any man comes to you and asks you to undermine common sense, logic, reason, and math to believe that there is no God because rocks turn into cells, or that cells turn into highly complex, self-reproducing, symmetrical machines over time, the true nature of your character will be revealed by the logic in your answer.

And here is where Russ calls me a liar.

I'm not a Christian...I guess. I didn't know that because I put all my blind faith in mankind. I don't really pray. I don't really study the Bible or ask forgiveness for my sins. I know the truth now because Russ said so.

Russ Wrote It, I Believe It, and That Finishes It.

Malarky!!!



Which part of the theory of evolution points out that there is no God? Is it because His name isn't mentioned? The atomic theory of matter doesn't mention God...is it wrong too? What about the germ theory of disease...should we go back to performing exorcisms on people with pneumonia?

Each one of these "problems" for evolution have been brought up by you before, and supported by you just as well as you do in this final paragraph. When someone provides evidence that contradicts your statements you just jump back into conspiracy mode instead of providing any type of evidence.

Because you never provide any evidence beyond Youtube videos, that's why. In fact, you don't even discuss evidence. Ever. You merely accuse and label and religiously cite that you've done your homework, that you do your research and that you never enter a conversation without knowing what you're talking about.

LinearAq has mentioned his Christian beliefs in enough posts that if you had actually been reading them you wouldn't have had to make an entire topic asking what religion he is. The fact of the matter is you don't read other people's posts. You gloss over them and assume you know what they're saying.

And, for the record, trivial as it may seem, I have mentioned on numerous occasions that my user name here is not an acronym or abbreviation and as such needn't be spelled in all caps. It's a Welsh name. A little word of advice, O' Russ the wannabe-heirophant, read people's posts before replying.

Hmmm. You really seem to be going out of bounds here, but that's OK.

I really don't know who you are, but you are certainly putting a lot of faith in mankind. That much is certain, especially when you ridicule my studies about modern-day global conspiracies.

So, being a Christian, why haven't you happened across those passages in the Bible speaking about global end-time conspiracy?



Sorry. I really think you're missing the point here.

My statement was simply saying that a person reveals who they are by what they do. The Bible says something about this. Do you know what that famous verse is?



What you said is sometimes true. I guess you'll have to look at todays posts by me and reconsider.

The fact is LinearAQ, I HAVE done my homework and put the pieces of the puzzle together, and what I've found puts the world view that you're living under in the "stone age" (pun intended).

The Bible is clear about a global end-time conspiracy, and that the entire world would accept lies. Yes, the entire world, except for a small number of people, would be deceived.

Incidentally, the Bible is correct, and all of my years of research about current events, politics, history and law demonstrate the perfect accuracy of the Bible in this regard.

If you care enough to, you can do some searching for a post that has roulette in it. There should only be a few. This is one of the details posts I made rebutting evolution math.

You can also search for one containing the rulesets. This is my other rebuttal. There are all here. Just look around.

Not true.

In fact my best rebuttals against evolution dealing with math and physical rulesets were all but ignored by evolutionists. They just don't like dealing with those kinds of hard problems.



Wrong again.

I actually reviewed many of his posts, religious and otherwise, before creating that topic.



Okey-dokey then.

If you'd like, I can dig up the posts where the maths you presented were discussed and answered. If I take the time to do so, will you then discuss it?

Again, I think you're simply glossing over people's posts here and not reading them. Which is why you didn't know LinearAq's religious background or that my user name is not an acronym or abbreviation (despite that both of these facts were mentioned many times, often specifically worded to you, Russ T); which is why Russell2 and Mordred had to point out your Darwin quotemine a half-dozen times before you bothered to react; which is also why you're claiming no one has answered your mathematical observations. It's not that they haven't answered, you're just not reading their posts.

I think the vast majority of the posters on this forum have long ago proven if you want to discuss a certain topic they're more than happy to reply to it. I can't help but get the feeling that you want them to be avoiding it, so that you cay say "Oh look, you're avoiding answering the questions, nyah nyah!". The unfortunate truth for you is that they're not avoiding these things at all. I can see the answers plain as day. Because I read what they have to say - thoroughly. Because I "do my homework". Do you do your homework, Russ T?

Regards,

Pwcca

In medieval English folklore, Puck was a malicious and wicked fairy. In Elizabethan folklore, he became a mischievous, brownie-like fairy, also called Hobgoblin or Robin Goodfellow. The Irish pooka and the Welsh pwcca are similar spirits.

Sorry this is OT, but that is just amazing. Wow. Can I ask what you are researching? My sister-in-law is a glaciologist and she has been wanting to arrange a trip down there. There's so much mystery about the place. A team is going out there to make a detailed map of a mountain range buried under 4km of ice. They'll even find out what the rock is made of.

If it isn't too personal a question, are you OK? You don't seem quite yourself in your posts at the moment.

I can't remember the exact quote, but it has been said in the last days that if not very careful, and if we do not "stand in holy places" even the very elect will be deceived. satan's powers are indeed very strong.... But so are God's. Righteousness is building along with evil, and that, Russ, is what I'm afraid you are missing. The light is getting stronger with the dark. YOU may be surprised at who ends up saving the day.

I have, and amazingly they don't mention JFK or mercury.

No it wasn't. You specifically stated that the theory of evolution says that there is no God. You go on to say that believing something reveals a person's character. Again this is your own opinion since you don't bother to back it up with anything...not even a Bible verse or two. So I, rightly asked you where the theory of evolution states that there is no God. I note that you diverted the subject instead of answering the question.

And maybe you will someday reveal the evidence that you uncovered in your "homework" instead of bragging about how well researched you are. I doubt it....but maybe.

You are assuming that one of the lies is about evolution. Can you name any others? Freedom of speach perhaps? Maybe the water cycle? Oh...I know...the workings of internal combustion engines!! The fact is that if you really knew that evolution was a lie, you would be able to accurately show where it was a lie. You have not done so thus far.

Yet none of this evidence uncovered in your research seems to show up here.

I will look at them....thank you.

I am working with NASA on some modernizations to their satellite tracking antenna down here. I am also working on the initial steps for placing another antenna system here. I have met several glaciologists here, at least in passing. They must be very patient. "Looks like the glacier moved another 1.5 inches last week...better hurry up and write that down before it changes."



Let's see:
My company lost a large NASA contract and I am looking for a job in the same field that doesn't require me to move my family.
I'm in Antarctica which makes it more difficult to look for a job.
My brother in law is causing all sorts of trouble for my wife, and I'm not there to defuse the situation. He is basically mentally unstable and an alcoholic.

So I have no patience with people who decide that they are right, think they know everything, don't bother providing information to support that "knowledge" and everyone else who disagrees is lying.

Sorry.

No apology needed -- I could just tell that you were upset. I'm sorry to hear about this, it must all be very stressful for you -- and being where you are, then yes, it's pretty isolating. I know several people who would happily change places with you there but I'm sure that doesn't help.

From my own experience, I know that coming to a forum like this to debate can add to the stress when it's piling on. Most people here aren't going to change their beliefs one iota no matter what is said and they will go on repeating the same things, no matter what is said. Myself, I don't have much time these days and have got other things to be doing, and the discussion I was going to get round to continuing with Russ2 isn't going to happen now because he's been booted off. I like exchanging ideas and debating, but it doesn't seem to really get anywhere here.

Why not stop by EvC for a while and read threads where real scientists are talking about the science they do, and coming at creationist arguments from all angles. People like CTD don't stand a chance there, though strangely he seems to have vanished from here too for the time being.

I hope you are able to work things out for yourself and your family despite the distance. I'd love to see some pics of where you are. Any resident penguins?

Cheers,
Linda.

Same from me Linear. Hope things work out....I certainly understand to a degree at least what it might be like having lived in AK - but it isn't as extreme and is more populated where I was. Hard if you can't be with family, too. You were ganged up on for a while on here which I didn't like, but Russ was also being ganged up on a bit by R2 and RAZD... (It was humorous at times, but not nice). He got more testy after that.

Please tell me what they do say my Christian friend.



Let me be clear.

The evolution religion was created to discredit the Bible, because the two are mutually exclusive.

I hope this clears up my position.



Again, as I said YESTERDAY, there is evidence all over. Choose your conspiracy and begin researching. They all lead to the same place. They also confirm what the Bible has said about our time.

There is NO excuse whatsoever for people in this age with this kind of access to information to be ignorant of these things. They are only ignorant because they CHOOSE to be, and the Bible makes some strong statements about willful-ignorance.

By the way, I have provided much information on this system that will help anyone interested to begin a study in conspiracies. MUCH!

Again; No excuse.



Just have a look all over this forum. There are plenty of places to start your own research.



Ok, if you want to continue to believe that cells turn into highly-complex, self-reproducing, symmetrical machines, you're more than welcome too.

As for me, the evidence against evolution is:

(1) Math, and
(2) Ruleset progression.

And that's not even mentioning how self-evident it isn't.

It really is astounding that people continue to believe these kinds of things. Talk about the dark ages.

It's like some dentists that still think putting mercury in your mouth is healthy, or doctors that will get mad if you don't put known neurotoxins into the body of your child.

Amazing. Truly amazing times we live in.



Um... Again, just check the myriad of videos and conspiracy forums on this system.

Have you even looked?



I have put a myriad of evidence on this forum. I have explained my position on the math, symmetry, and ruleset progression, but you continue to claim that no evidence has been provided.

You are not being intellectually honest. I really mean that.

The Bible is clear about the end-time conspiracy. Do you read the Bible on a regular basis?

And yes, I question your integrity. How can someone say they believe in evolution and the Bible? They are mutually exclusive.

Please explain.

I don't care about being ganged up on. I have a problem with people who lie (are intellectually dishonest).

I love science and I am a "knowledge" person: I collect and accumulate knowledge and I hate to see people destroy it, whatever their motivation.

Science is a beautiful thing but it has been turned into another political toy being used by the conspirators. That disgusts me.

And why does it disgust me?

Because they (the conspirators) are using their lies to destroy peoples lives for the sake of their own profit.

People who lie and cheat and steal to the harm of others are disgusting to me.

The whole thing? Wars and rumors of wars? The clay feet? 144000 remants of the Jews that have turned to Christ. The Megiddo valley? The two witnesses?
The twinkling of an eye? What is it you want to know? I doubt you want me to cover the prophecy from Daniel, Ezekial, Jesus and John. That would take some time.

If this is your position, fine. However it doesn't answer my question. It just repeats your statement that the theory of evolution says there is no God.

I could care less about any other conspiracy so I don't bother with your Project-Bluebeam-is-hiding-mecury-chemtrails-that-supply-dentists-who-build-transmitters-in-our-fillings-so-aliens-can-get-past-our-tin-foil-hats theory. I am only interested in your evidence for the "evolutionism" conspiracy.

I'll get to the "math" and ruleset progression.
Your incredulity does not make the implasibility of evolution "self evident". You should have grown up enough to know that nothing is self-evident, not even time and space. So, saying that it is just makes you look unlearned. Continuing to repeat that mantra, makes you look unteachable.

Indeed yes...at least the ones that deal with evolution. The statements and "proofs" they make are so poorly supported, I find myself aghast at the fact that the audience remains in the room. I half expect to see them getting medical treatment for laughter induced broken ribs.

Even if I were completely wrong about evolution, I would still be considered intellectually honest because I ask for evidence and when asked I try to produces credible references and evidence.
You have explained your positions. What you have failed to do is provide evidence that supports your position. When asked a simple question concerning the math and basis for determining relative probabilities, you jumped back into "self-evident" mode. Is that "intellectually honest"?
It should not surprise you that you rarely convince anyone who was not a "true believer" before.

Easy. The history in Genesis was written by people from a culture that did not require accuracy in the legends since those legends were for the purpose of teaching about God's character and attributes.
How can you believe that the original manuscripts of the Bible were "without error" when the four Gospels don't match up in event timelines? Doesn't that mean there is an error in the original manuscripts or do you think that the mismatched timelines are "copyist errors"?

Wow, LinearAq, despite the trials of what you've been going through I envy you your current location and activities. It's not something just anyone can up and do. Sounds more than interesting! Like Linda said, pictures would be awesome

Stay positive, man!

[/derail]

Even our leaders have told us that our position on details concerning the creation don't affect our salvation.

I have a couple of questions. Russ, since you advertise Andy's protocol for mercury detoxification (off topic, but you keep mentioning it on here and obviously those issues are valid) why don't you use it? I've been curious about that all along. I know you've used other methods, but wonder why you haven't used Andy's.

Linear, may I ask what you believe about Adam and Eve? I know some think that God may've caused man to come about through evolution, but do you accept it that far? How do you believe pertaining to believing in evolution and that God created man? The creation, to me, from a Christian standpoint is highly debatable.... (open...) but I can't buy that man had to evolve from the big bang (maybe that was how the earth was originally created like eons ago??) or micro-evolution. I do take literally that God created "kinds" as the Bible puts it. I know they do evolve or adapt, at least, but don't think they make the dramatic (albeit slow) leaps as is thought at least to other species. To me the earth being old does not conflict with the time table of how long man has been on the earth, though. I know archaeological findings (pottery, etc.) are used (are they carbon dated??), etc., but regardless, I hold to that time table at least. (Man's history but not with the creation till man was here at least). Not sure if that all makes sense - kind of discombobulated. Just wonder what exactly you do think that way. I've asked you Russ, but get no response. Even among Christians there are variations. You can say you believe what the Bible says - but its interpreted a lot of different ways.

As far as the Bible's accuracy - I think it has been changed through the ages for sure - some deliberately by the original apostate church. Plain and precious truths have been removed or altered. The Bible itelf doesn't hold the full text even of the original creation. As far as the Gospels, though, those are more differences in perspectives.... (Not sure but don't think there are direct contradictions but I've heard explantions before).

We just watched the newest Indiana Jones. Interesting concepts there - the interdimensional beings : )

One thing I find interesting is that there seems to be more real love and friendship here among you heathen than amongst the Christian population on here at least. : ) (The heathen part is meant with humor in case it doesn't quite come off....) (Lynn is sweet, though).

Russ - you're transferring your general feelings about the situations on earth at this time toward people here, though.... And telling yourself you're being like God in doing so. Judgment is to be reserved by Him who is the only one who really knows us....Your job is to forgive. We are all commanded to.

Even if ALL the conspiratorial issues are correct, you dwell on them constantly which is not healthy. It is bound to affect you. I do not like thinking about my illnesses constantly. To me it gives them power. I don't think of myself as sick. I know you think you are a warning voice, but life goes on. You DO raise awareness. My point is that perhaps your life is out of balance??

I don't buy the lack of pride thing, either. We all have feelings. I don't like feeling ganged up on. No one does. You haven't even gotten involved in a relationship on a personal level Russ. You have some seriously high walls up. You have to trust someone....People are meant to love and be there for each other. THAT is how we become Christ like. The gospel is a message of love. Let me ask YOU a question. What is the most important commandment?

Hi Jeanie, you said,



Erm . . . well, the Big Bang is the nickname for the dramatic expansion of space-time and energy at the beginning of the universe. Increasingly, discoveries made by the new generation of satellites and telescopes casts doubt on how much we really understand about this, but there is still a lot of evidence which points to the universe having begun as a singularity and expanded. Russ2 went into more detial about this in various places here. The cosmic microwave background is a big clue.

In this sort of time frame, the evolution of humankind has happened in the blink of an eye -- 200,000 years for the existence of homo sapiens, compared to 13.7 billion years for the universe.

As far as the actual evolution of humans is concerned, all I can honestly see in your comments is personal incredulity. Are you aware of the evidential base of the study of human origins, or do you not feel this is relevant?



What, in your eyes, prevents small changes over a certain timespan, adding up to larger changes over a greater timespan? This is what the fossil record shows.



This introduces a new twist to the creationist position, one which I suspect Russ is trying to avoid by not telling us how old he thinks the earth is. If you accept our scientific understanding of strata, geological processes and radiometric dating, then how can you claim that humans have been on the earth for only 6,000 years when the oldest homo sapiens remains have been dated to circa 200,000 years, and other hominin species older still?



You can't carbon date pottery, but you can carbon date organic material up to the age of about 40,000 years. This includes bones, and materials in the surrounding stratum such as seeds and pollen. The archaeological finds are important in their own way, though, because they show a pattern in human ancestors of progressing from simple tools to stone hammers and flint cutters to more sophisticated equipment. We can see when hominins started cooking their food, burying their dead, wearing body paint, making jewellery, wearing clothes, all these kinds of things that characterise us as "human." Many finds date as being more than 6,000 years old.

It's maybe worth considering that there are two general positions a person can come from: that of love, and that of fear. Underlying fear causes many of our problems. I perceive a fear among Biblical literalists that the world will come crashing down, the consequences too horrible to imagine, if they question the literalness of any part of the Bible. If you have such a clear blueprint in front of you for how to live, what is good and bad and what you shall and shall not do, it removes that fear. Quite a few people in the world, though, demonstrate that full lives can be lived even if you e.g. do not accept the literalness of the Adam and Eve story. Sometimes symbolism can take us closer to the truth than information taken at face value.

I am a conspiracy researcher, and you are obviously slandering my work in this statement.

You know, chemtrails, for example, are very real, and I am attempting to do a good work by exposing them to people and to help them realize what they can do to protect themselves.

These conspiracies are rooted in evil, and we, as Christians, are supposed to be the lights that expose evil, so to belittle this kind of research harms people.



This world will soon be suffering greatly, and it's just that kind of apathy that has led us to this place.

How incredibly sad that a person proclaiming themselves a Christian would be unconcerned with exposing evil.



I've heard the "we just can't know anything" argument before.

The truth is, we can be sure enough of knowledge to build buildings, electronics, and to make drastic improvements to the quality of our lives.

In fact, everything we do that is above the level of "animal" is based on the understanding of knowledge and the prediction of how things will behave—that is—understanding the underlying rulesets.

Evolution is a lie that is at the root of much evil and propaganda.



You are getting off the subject.

You asked for evidence of conspiracies because you rightly said that I keep diverting the conversation toward them.

The videos on the website DO provide evidence and first-hand witnesses, but these things alone are not intended to convince the skeptic. You have to do your own research, but I'm quite certain you will not.

Before I moved here, I had a 4-drawer filing cabinet packed full of evidence. I also had 2 8 1/2" x 11" binders with 3" rings full of copies that I had made myself from federal court decisions dealing with the topics of my studies. These copies were made on my personal trips to Federal Book Depositories, law libraries, and universities.

I have thrown 95% of this information in the trash because I realized that the people who really want to know, have everything they need. The people who don't know, don't know because they don't want to know.

I have decided to stop wasting my time trying to convince people of these things to the degree that I did several years ago, and I have made this decision because of the truth I discovered in the previous paragraph.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am a conspiracy researcher, and I HAVE done my homework (you have no idea).

So all I can say to you is that it saddens me that you have such a comical view of this information, that could otherwise be used to help and protect people from the difficult times to come.

Ignorance is both voluntary and dangerous.

Let's not spead it.



Um... You're censoring the part where I told you that I already had very long posts on this forum explaining these subjects and I told you how to find it.

Please, we do need to be honest here. Omitting this type of information only causes strife here, as does ridiculing my position as a conspiracy researcher.



This is true, but not for the reasons you believe.

As I stated previously, people are emotionally-based. That is, they make decisions about what they believe based on their emotional feelings about it.

THIS is the true reason I don't convince people: They don't want to know.

Again, ignorance is both voluntary and dangerous.



You are completely wrong, and this statement alone—in all due diligence—causes me to question your integrity.

The accuracy of the Biblical documentation was considered paramount throughout history. Those who study it know this. I'm sincerely not sure why you think differently, especially considering that you claim to believe that Christ is who He said He was.

If the documents are not accurate, than why would you have any reason to believe the account of Christ is accurate? Yes, I am asking for an answer.



Actually, they do match up. Again, please provide evidence for your assertion.

Actually, I care about the people here, and this is my motivation for taking the time to answer the critics.

People who care about truth over their own emotions are precious in God's sight, and so I serve both them and God by being a source of accurate information. I have a great affection for truth seekers, no matter where they are on the path.

On the other hand, I despise selfish people. These are the kinds of people who will pervert truth for their own gain—emotional or otherwise—and inevitably, when this occurs, people are hurt in the process.

I realize that truth is a difficult thing, but I also know that it's only made difficult by those who are selfish and invent their own "reality" for their own purposes, and then even try to spread they "reality" to others in an effort to make themselves feel safer (safety in numbers).

So, I appreciate you consideration, but you are incorrect in your statement. My feelings are very different toward people who love truth and people who love self.



I'm not sure we're you're getting that from.

I am only trying to be more and more pure in my life. There is only one God and none are like Him. In fact, this concept was part of my prayers today (Friday, technically yesterday now).



The Bible says that a spiritual person discerns all things.

I posted to you a few weeks ago about the misnomer of your belief about "judging" no one.



My job is to teach. My character is to forgive, or at least become better at it.



I only "dwell" on them on this forum when they are necessary to correctly respond to a post.

You may be surprised to know that in my physical life, I play guitar, write and record music, watch movies, program computers (yes, I actually enjoy that), and do photography.



Please know that my point in warning people about the evil in the world is so they can prepare themselves and so they can discover the accuracy of the Bible.

You're statement above lends itself to a dangerous belief system related to creating your own "reality".

Yes, laughter strengthens our immune system. Yes, positive though strengthens our bodies and affects those around us, but there is a line.

The Bible warns us to heed warnings and to be wise concerning approaching evil.

But how can one be wise about approaching evil if we are ignorant about it?

This is the appointment of the Church. We are the watchmen on the wall. We warn people about approaching evil. It is an act of love and responsibility. How people respond is up to them.

I am actually a very positive and happy person. Throughout my life, my friends told me about how they respected my positiveness and encouragement.



My personal relationship is with God.

If I find a woman who can handle the truth and who I can love in a romantic way, you can bet I'll be ready.

I've had numerous friend throughout my life. I even still have friendships with ex-girlfriends. Relationships are no problem for me.



You have me all wrong.



Did Christ lie to people about the very difficult times to come?

No, He didn't

Loving someone means telling them the truth.



Um... You're leaving out the rest of the story.

The gospel is a story of love through adversity].

Our job as the Church is well-defined by Christ, and love involves much more than just making people feel good.



Again, you don't know me.



To love God.

The second:

To love your neighbor.

Just don't forget Jeannie, Christ said:

"If you love Me, keep my commandments."

Too true, too true. He slanders you, blasphemes you. You had better ban him from posting, Russ, just as you need to ban me. After all, he is misrepresenting© you just as Russell2 misrepresented© you. You who-have-done-your-homework© should not be misrepresented©. It is an affront to your preordained task to show everyone else in this world the error of their ways. You, Russ T. are the mirror, no one is to be your mirror, for this would be misrepresentation©.

In fact, I need to make a public announcement to everyone. It is a compulsion I suffer from. I cannot help but to continue where Russell2 left off. I cannot control myself. I will begin to make the same kinds of statements which got Russell2 banned - I've already started. If you do not ban me I will be unable to control my obsessive compulsive disorder and post similar comments to the one above (regarding tinfoil hats, etc.) and like Russell2's (please see my signature).

Please help by banning me. Make me go cold turkey. There can be no other way.

Lies From Evolutionists

Just so it's clear to all of our visitors, PWCCA/Russell2 are the same person, and both have been misrepresenting themselves.

This type of activity is poetically symbolic of the kind of double-mindedness that is necessary to have faith in the evolution religion.

You need, on one hand, to rely on physics to prove your point, but on the other hand, you need to break the laws of physics to find "evidence" for your religion.

How poetic.

I, being a Christian, prefer honesty and integrity in my life, whether I'm speaking about science or personal relationships.

Cheers!