News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Creativity ~

Helen Prejean, the nun whose experiences with death-row inmates led to the movie 'Dead Man Walking', talked recently about creativity:

"In creating, we imitate God.. . . To be a creator is part of what it means to be a human being. I met a guy on death- row in Arizona who had nothing....So he would unravel his socks and weave little necklaces with crosses out of the threads. The first time I visited another death-row inmate, he gave me a picture frame he'd made out of gum wrapper foils.

"These men were locked in a small cell, 23 out of 24 hours a day; they had absolutely nothing, and still they were reaching out to create something of beauty and worth."

Inklings (Vol.2, No.3)
'1001 Quotes, Illustratons & Humorous
Stories' by: EK Rowell

Blessings, Abishag <><

Creation ~

God creates out of nothing. Wonderful, you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: He makes saints out of sinners.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Soren Kierkegaard
Creation/ 1001 Quotes....

Blessings, Abishag <><

Creation:

A number of materialistic thinkers have ascribed to blind evolution more miracles, more improbable conincidences and wonders, than all the teleologists could ever devise.


By: Isaac Bashevis Singer
~~~~~~~

If man is not a divinity, then man is a disease. Either he is the image of God or else he is the one animal which has gone mad.

By: G. K Chesterton
~~~~~~~

The sky is the daily bread of the eyes.

By: Ralph Waldo Emerson
~~~~~~
Spring is God's way of saying, "One more time!"

By: Robert Orben
~~~~~~

Nature is the art of God.

By: Thomas Brown
~~~~~

The world is not lacking in wonders, but in a sense of wonder.

By: G. K. Chesterton
~~~~~

Our greatest claim to nobility is our created capacity to know God, to be in personal relationship with Him, to love Him and to worship Him. Indeed, we are most truly human when we are on our knees before our Creator. + + +

By: John Stott
~~~~

The monotony of life, if life is monotonous to you, is in you and not in the world.

By: Phillips Brooks
~~~~~

The experts don't know for sure how old or how big the universe is. They don't know what most of it is made of. They don't know in any detail how it began or how it will end.

By: Time Magazine
~~~~~

I think it says something that the only form of life that we have created so far [computer viruses] is purely destructive. Talk about creating life in our own image.

By: Stephen W. Hawking

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Above Quotes taken from:
1001 Quotes, Illustrations & Humorous Stories
From: Edward K Rowell & Leadership Journal

Blessings, Abishag <><

This comes as sort of good news to me. Some time ago, about 15 years maybe, I noticed that I have a drive to create. Creating things brings happiness and satisfaction - even things for which I have relatively little talent, like songs. And restlessness comes when I'm not creating.

I never discussed it much, and always assumed I was some sort of oddball. It's a relief to hear I'm not.

Oh Dear CTD!

Go for it! You may have a talent that can be used by the Lord our Creator.

You do have such a kind, and admirable way of expressing yourself.

Step out in faith, believing, my friend. I have confidence in your talent. Express it, use it! What have you got to lose? You have much to gain, I believe.

God bless your endeavor!

Thank you for replying,
Blessings, Abishag <><

What a great thread this is. Great information and glory to the power and creativity of God.

I often think about the amazing breadth in creation's creativity.

He creates animals like bears or tigers, and then He creates amazing colorful scented flowers. He certainly has a vast imagination, if it's possible to put it in Earthly words.

I do also. If you think about it enough, it almost blows your mind. When you consider the layout of everything, the precision, how everything is set up, the sun by day, the moon by night and all at the right distance, and the food provided. Even your own body in detail. It is true from that quote that the world is not lacking in wonders, but lacking in a sense of wonder.

The frame of the skeleton that we're moving about simply by making the decision to move - and the body obeys. I'm sitting here typing with my fingers going almost a mile a minute and all this from the brain, with the fingers merely carrying out the instruction. What about the eyes and viewing everything through those lenses like a camera and moving them where we wish.

We take it for granted. I have trouble sometimes really considering things and only when I'm well enough, does clarity return and I'm even more amazed. I don't know how anybody can be an atheist. Truly, especially a healthy atheist. Because with increased health, I am even more keenly aware of the world around me and it's exciting. When I'm sicker, I struggle more and don't seem to appreciate these things, or don't see them as well.

It is true that there really is no excuse. God has revealed the wonder of Himself through His own creation. How can anybody possibly doubt? Even a person who has never heard of a "God" would have to consider something much greater than all this that is behind it all.

Glory to God, He's amazing.

Beauty --

People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out. But in the darkness, beauty is seen only if there is a light within.

~~~~~
God's Image --

My husband admired our six-year-old daughter while she was dancing around the kitchen. Finally, he stopped her with a hug.

"You know" he said, looking Amy in the eyes, "you're cute--cute just like your father."

Amy was silent for a moment. "You mean my heavenly father or you?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: 1001 Quotes, Illus,etc
Blessings, Abishag <><
JESUS LOVES YOU!

Ahhh! Our Sovereign Lord has, indeed, given us such beauty to behold !

Psalm 19:1 "The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands."

Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

Acts 14:17 "He has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; He provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy."

Acts 17:28 "For in Him we live and move and have our being. As some of your own poets have said, "We are His offspring."

The Apostle Paul had defined this universal gospel as embracing the creation, salvation, and consummation of "all things" by Christ (Colossians 1:16-22).The essence of this truth can be seen (if one's eyes are willing to see it) in "all the world" (v.6) in the beauty, complexity, unity in diversity, purposefulness, continuance of energy, and process, as found in "every creature which is under heaven." Every aspect of God's creation has been designed to reveal Christ as maker and Savior. HMM

~~~~~~~~~~
Days of Praise
Institute for CREATION Research
Blessings, Abishag

http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species-6th-edition/chapter-06.html


The nature of beauty, and the implications thereof, may be more profound than most folks realize. Darwin understated the case, IMO.

Creation ~

Perhaps no composer has captured the musical heart and soul of America as did Irving Berlin. In addition to familiar favorites such as "God Bless America" and "Easter Parade," he wrote "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas," which still ranks as the all-time bestselling musical score.

In an interview for the 'San Diego Union', Don Freeman asked Berlin, "Is there any question you've never been asked that you would like someone to ask you?"

"Well, yes, there is one," he replied. " 'What do you think of the many songs you've written that didn't become hits?' My reply would be that I still think they are wonderful."

God, too, has an unshakable delight in what--and whom--he has made. He thinks each of his children is wonderful. Whether they're a "hit" in the eyes of others or not, he will always think they're wonderful.
~~~~
By: Jim Adams
1001 Quotes, Illus & Humorous Stories
From: Edward K. Rowell

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Creation:

Seen on a church sign: IF EVOLUTION IS TRUE, HOW COME MOTHERS STILL HAVE ONLY TWO HANDS?

By: Donna Waldeyer

-------------------------
Blessings, Abishag <><

"But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD."

(Jeremiah 9:24)

The Designed Creation ~

"Understand, ye brutish among the people; and ye fools, when will ye be wise? He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see?" (Psalm 94:8-9)

The concept of evolution, according to this verse, is nothing but brute-like foolishness. If an automobile presuppposes an automaker, and a clock implies a clockmaker, surely the infinitely more intricate and complex eyes and ears of living creatures require an eye-maker and and ear-maker! "The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them" (Proverbs 20:12).

The most basic of all scientific laws--the law of cause and effect (no effect greater than its cause)--becomes utmost nonsense if the cosmos is the product of chaos and the universe evolved by chance. "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" (Psalm 14:1).

Every creature, from the single-celled amoebae to the amazing human body, bears the impress of intricate planning and construction. The notion that such complex structures could evolve by random mutations and natural selection is simply a measure of the audacity of human rebellion and the absurdity of humanistic reasoning. Such things never happen in the real world, and there is no real scientific evidence whatever for "vertical" evolution from one kind to a higher kind. The only genuine evidence for evolution is the fact that the leaders of intellectualism believe it, and the only reason they believe it is their frantic desire to escape God. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22).

The ear did not "evolve"; it was planted. The eye did not "happen by chance"; it was formed. Every wise man and woman will say with the psalmist, "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: maravellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Psalm 139:14). HMM
~~~~~~~~~~~~
ICR
Blessings, Abishag <><

--- God's Mighty Hand ~

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Colossians 1:15-17 ~

~~~With one decision, history began. Existence became measurable.

* Out of nothing came light.

* Out of light came day.

* Then came sky....and earth.

* And on this earth? A mighty hand went to work.

Canyons were carved. Oceans were dug. Mountains erupted out of flatlands. Stars were flung. A universe sparkled.

Look to the canyons to see the Creator's splendor. Touch the flowers and see his delicacy. Listen to the thunder and hear his power....

Today you will encounter God's creation. When you see the beauty around you, let each detail remind you to lift your head in praise. Express your appreciation for God's creation. Encourage others to see the beauty of his creation. ~

~~~~~~ What a mighty God we serve!

In the Eye of the Storm ~~
Max Lucado <><
Blessings, Abishag ---------JESUS IS LORD! HEAVEN RULES!

~~~BORN AGAIN --

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

~~THE vital doctrine of regeneration has been applicable in all ages, for man by nature is a lost sinner and must be spiritually reborn through faith in God and His promises to be saved.

It is emphasized in the New Testament. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3:5-6). "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Peter 1:23).

Note that this spiritual birth is produced only through the eternal Word of God. "According to his abundant mercy," the Lord "hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you" (1 Peter 1:3-4).

To be raised from spiritual death in sin to eternal life in Christ is a true miracle, as much so as the physical resurrection of Christ Himself, or even as the very creation of the world. "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 4:6).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new [creation]: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

ICR/HMM
Blessings, Abishag

My King of Old --

"The day is thine, the night also is thine; thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth; thou hast made summer and winter." (Psalm 74:16-17)

THE 74th Psalm is a sad lamentation over the apparent triumph of the enemies of God, but its central verse is a beautiful statement of faith: "For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth" (Psalm 74:12). Then, in support of his faith, the psalmist remembers the mighty creative acts fo God in ancient times, giving assurance that He could, indeed, work salvation in these present times.

Those who believe that man is the measure of all things, sufficient unto himself, ignore how dependent all people are on God's provisions. The very rotation of the earth, with its cycle of day and night, has set the basic rhythm of biological life, and it was God--not man--who "divided the light from the darkness" (Genesis 1:4).

There is even the testimony in Genesis that God "prepared the light" before He prepared the sun (Genesis 1:3, 14), thus rebuking all those who later would worship the sun as the source of the earth and life.

God also "set all the borders [or 'boundaries'] of the earth." This refers both ot the emergence of the continental land masses after the flood, and then also to the enforced scattering of the peoples from Babel into all the world, when He "determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation." (Acts 17:26).

He has even made "summer and winter, and day and night [that] shall not cease" (Genesis 8:22). God did all this--not man!! Evolutionary humanism is futile foolishness!

One day soon God will answer the cry of the psalmist: "Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily" (Psalm 74:22).
~~~~
ICR/HMM

Please provide some evidence that evolutionary humanists believe that humans created the earth and all life thereon.

Maybe you can also provide some empirical evidence that the Christian god created them.

Geez Linda. What's up?

Why the terse reaction?

I was being polite and asking some legitimate questions based on the posts in this topic. IMO there's a distinct lack of logic in them and it's a little boring seeing endless pasted posts with no comments from the posters in them; I wonder sometimes how much of the pastes they understand and I'm giving Abishag a chance to make that clear.

If you'd like to post about the topic yourself then feel free.

It's my understanding that humanists believe in evolution. Is that correct?



The Christian God created everything.

As for evidence to that fact, I would return the challenge and ask you to name something that does not contain evidence of a Supreme Intelligence.

Once we've established a Supreme Intelligence, then we can bicker about how the Bible foretold the future thousands of years in advance, and how its accuracy has been well established by archaeological digs the world over.

Then there's Biblical numerology.

Suggested reading:

Number in Scripture: Bullinger
The Witness of the Stars: Bullinger

Accepting the evidence for evolution is not the same thing as believing that humans created everything. Now I don't think that's what Abishag's paste-job was trying to say, but that's the implication of the rather nonsensical sentences I originally quoted. I think what it's trying to say is that because the Christian god created everything (unproven), humanism is rubbish -- I don't see the logic there. In fact the first humanists in the Italian Renaissance were fervent Christians.

Secondly, many Christians don't think that evolution and the existence of a god are incompatible. You can make statements about that here if you want but it depends on how you define your terms and your beliefs. For example, if you claim that a Christian must believe in the literal truth of every word in the Bible then sure they're incompatible; and there are some here who think that's the only definition of a Christian. If your terms are that narrowly defined then there's not much point in further discussion, which is why I don't come to this forum very much anymore -- took me a while to learn.



You may believe that the Christian god created everything and many people do. Some believe that evolution was his way of doing it. Some people believe that a different god created everything, some people believe that no divine being was involved -- there's a wide spectrum of beliefs out there. No one can empirically prove that they are correct, not even atheists, which is why it's called belief. With that in mind, maybe you have an answer to your rather puzzling question about evidence for a supreme intelligence. Not everyone looks at the world from your point of view or mine; we all have different filters we pass things through. An atheist could look at a flower and be equally as reverential of its beauty as you, without thanking a god for it. My own beliefs don't fit any of these categories so they never go over very well on creation/evolution forums.

I don't like arguing from a purely empirical standpoint anymore because there are a lot of truths in life that can't be studied in that way. But I also think it's important to keep a skeptical outlook, which means being open-minded and conscious of the evidence. You can't use the Bible as proof of creation no matter what you claim about prophecies, numerology, etc because other world religions make similar claims about their holy books so who can prove that they are right? "Just believing" that each of you are, is what starts wars. There's more to the big picture than religious dogma and evolution too, a lot we don't understand yet. I don't think we're likely to continue to learn without open minds.

First of all, Abishag does NOT 'copy and paste'. I type out my posts, which I consider to be my 'ministry' for the Lord I serve.

#2 - If it's 'boring' to you, why do you bother reading it at all???

Thirdly, I do not expect you to understand anything regarding the Holy Bible. WHY? Because, "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because thay are spiritually discerned."

And because- "every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the day of judgment....", I will close this post with this;

After you meet the man in the 'seamless robe', THEN I will consider a further discussion with you.

YOU also said, "I do not like arguing....." So.......???????

The 'belief' that we Christians have is based solely on 'FAITH' in the Son of God, who died and gave himself for us.

It appears that YOU do 'not have an open mind'.

Abishag
JESUS IS LORD !

But you didn't write them. Do you not have some thoughts of your own to add or discuss? If not, what's wrong with others questioning what you typed?



I come here sometimes to read posts with interesting scientific information in them. Where is your scientific information in the midst of all these proselytizing posts?



Am I right in understanding that you refuse to talk to people who do not agree with your religious views?



I'm not arguing, I'm questioning. I've found that people who feel comfortable with their beliefs tend not to mind it.



We can let people read the posts here and decide whom that applies to. I wonder if you are capable of having a conversation here without flaming anyone who disagrees with you.

And This, Too .....

-------IT is said an Eastern Monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence, to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations.

They presented him the words:
"And this, too, shall pass away."

How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride--how consoling in the depth of affliction!

~~~~ABRAHAM LINCOLN

It's interesting to see what happened when I asked you to talk about these comments from others that you are posting here and gave you the chance to prove that you understand and can defend them, but what has the above got to do with creation and evolution? Forum etiquette generally involves addressing other posts. Please stick to the topic or I will alert a moderator.

On second thought, it's clear you won't or can't reply to my initial comments, so I'll leave it at that.

-----THE ARTIST


WHEN Leonardo da Vinci had painted his immortal "Last Supper," he asked a friend for an evaluation. The friend heaped superlatives on the masterpiece and especially praised the wine cup by the Lord's hand.

At that point, Leonardo blotted out the cup. "Nothing," he was said to have answered, "should distract one's attention from the Lord."
---------------
Author Unknown

You're off topic here -- this forum is about creationism and evolution. You have now:

a.) Made insulting personal remarks to me,
b.) Ignored me.

All you seem to want to do here is type things that others have written with no indication of whether you have thought about them or understand them. You show no willingness to discuss with anyone even though this is a forum not a blog. I've alerted a moderator and I suggest that if you want to carry on in this vein, you stick to posting in the Bible forum.

Creativity is off topic when discussing creationism?

There is a feature that allows one to preview one's post before submitting it. A side effect is that it also allows one to review the post also.

So telling someone that they're not holy enough to be spoken to is not against the rules here? It's OK to ignore other posters and continually type stuff from other sources with no individual thoughts added? What's more, the previous two posts from Abishag have nothing to do with creationism or evolution. I could start talking about my favourite artists and the techniques they used in their paintings but somehow I don't think that kind of creativity has anything to do with a discussion of how life on earth began.

Clear enough then, it's obvious that everything possible is being done here to avoid a thoughtful discussion, which says a lot about the position being advocated.

The forum actually has an "ignore" feature to facilitate those who would ignore others. Implicit in the provision of such a feature is the idea that it is permissible to ignore.

When you have actual complaints, mention them. When you have to twist words in an attempt to gin something up, I don't expect you'll be kind enough to keep such to yourself. You might, but how much time would that waste?

We do have a rule about false accusations, mind you.

As for avoiding thoughtful discussion, what prevents you from posting? Have you anything on-topic to submit yet?

I believe I was very clear. What do you think I'm "ginning up."



What false accusations. I was being clear and honest, please tell me what you think I'm making up.



Have you actually read the full discussion here? I posted questions about a post Abishag made about evolutionary humanists and I was attempting to see how much Abishag understood of what she typed. Russ began a conversation with me, which is fine and what I'd expect here. Abishag has done everything possible to avoid my questions and her first post to me here consisted of nothing but character assassination, look for yourself.

It would be nice if you could show me that a forum with creationist moderators attempts to be fair to non-creationist posters.

Abishag started this conversation. I suppose it's up to her (as well as others who wish to participate) what direction it takes.

If you don't like it, turn the channel.

You see Linda, that's what I have to do when lie-after-evolutionary-lie is told on television, movies, textbooks, and all forms of media. Most of this stuff has been proven wrong, incorrect, outright fabrication, but still they incessantly promote it.

God plays a role in my life, by His mercy. He is active. I see it. I witness it. I know: The most important thing in this life is believing Him. I know this through research and through personal experience.

As adults, we should not be easily insulted.

Being insulted is for children. We, as adults, should have learned to have a strong enough resolve in our belief system -- because we've studied enough to be secure in what be believe -- that nothing insults us.

If we find ourselves insulted, it is a fear that we have discovered within ourselves; A hole in our belief system.

This make insult an opportunity to discover, reevaluate, intellectualize (a spiritual activity), not to complain.

Christian, heathen, agnostic, apathists; Hear this:

Take advantage of every insult you suffer. When you do, you will laugh at and empathize for those who scorn.

OK Russ. I was chiefly irritated that Abishag was skirting the issue in every way possible, and I don't like they way she types others' words here and refuses to discuss them. But I will do my best to be patient.

God did, in fact, create everything.

The humanist manifesto states that evolution is the belief system of humanism, so they believe that everything was created through natural processes.

Humanists are clearly wrong.

"Humanism", in this respect, is "rubbish".

That is the logic here.




To be a Christian, you must believe that Christ is who He says He is.

He does not expect anyone to believe Him without evidence. He has provided an abundance of it, but those who do not see it are blind to it for a fundamental reason: They don't want to see it. They covet something that they (mistakenly) believe is threatened by believing Christ.

Those who actually study the Bible, like me, actually discover that it is an astounding and super-natural source of information.

Those who believe Christ is who He said He is, study scripture because Christ said to. It's a command.

Those who claim to be Christians and don't study the book are disobeying Christ, the one they claim to believe.

They do this because they covet.

Are they who do not believe Christ's commandments Christians?

Are Christ's office and Christ's commandments incompatible?

Summary:

If you don't know the Bible is true, it's because you don't study scripture.

If you don't study scripture, it's because you don't believe Christ has the authority to give commands.

If you don't believe Christ has the authority to give commands, it's because you don't believe Him.

If you don't believe Him, it's because you are not a Christian.



The Divine creation has been proved far beyond a reasonable doubt.

Again, those who don't know this, simply don't want to know. They don't bother to lift a finger to find out.



Having emotional reverence for creation has nothing to do with discovering strong evidence for the event.

The most important fundamental thing any intellectual can learn is that their emotions are meaningless in the search for truth. In fact, they are often a great hindrance.

Selflessness and humility ensure the glass of your perception is clear. Covetousness and pride are blinders.



I think what most people would say is that they become exhausted with the search, and then they use the difficulty as an excuse for not finishing the search.

Those looking for excuses will find excuses. Those looking for truth will find truth.

Know yourself. Know what you are looking for, then, when you've seen the blinding pride and covetousness in you, rid yourself of it, clear your perception, then answers will begin to appear.

Anyone who stops the search for truth has done so because they have found a sufficient excuse to quench their conscience against their thirst for something; Their coveting.

Finish the race.

Continue the search.

Never be afraid to shed your own fatness that you may see through the narrow gate of truth.



Not true.

The Bible is unique in these things.

The fact that you make this statement is evidence that you listen to others rather than doing your own research.



Not true.

What starts wars are those who control the world powers, and have throughout history, who continually war against truth (and Truth) in order to maintain their power.

What does every man in power want?

More power. Continued power. Security in their power.

They lust for power. They covet.

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?"
(James 4:1)

In fact, the differing beliefs only exist in this world because those in power have used false religions, false evidence, false scientific research, and and endless stream of lies to divide and conquer. They then set differing beliefs against each other by false accusation. This is exactly what 9-11 was designed for: To set Christian protestantism against Islam.

Again, if you do your homework, you will discover these truths. If you seek with true intention, God can give you the strength to continue. You have to really want it.

What was spoken by the "oracle" in the second Matrix movie had a lot of truth to it:

"...you didn't come here to make a choice. You've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it."

Remember this carefully. Wars are not started by religion. Wars are started by those who started man-made religion in order to divide people so they can maintain their oppressive power, anti-Biblical Power. If we lived under Biblical law, we would not live under tyranny and oppression.

There twice existed lands that did this, and they prospered greatly:

(1) Ancient Israel under Kind David, and
(2) The United States. In the 20th century, this changed in the United States, hence the fall.

Christianity is not a man-made religion. It is the one, unique exception among a sea of lies and deception.



Having an open mind is good. Unfortunately, many mistake this oft-spoken concept with an emotional experience that actually causes one to lose their objectivity or ability to accurately perceive.

An open mind is good so long it does not lose it's ability to reason.

Again, there are those who believe that God is behind the natural processes.

What's more, all you're saying here is that A is correct so B is wrong, but you've provided no evidence that A is correct other than to state that it is so. An atheist is just as convinced that it is NOT so and they would use the exact same arguments that you do -- that it is self evident. Each of you may be convinced that your beliefs are correct but you should at least come clean and accept that they are beliefs because empiricism has no place at the moment in proving them right or wrong. I have seen people honestly admit this.

The evidence you see in the Bible is the evidence others see in the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the writings of Buddha. All of you who follow sacred scriptures accept what they say, and this includes prophecies and so forth. The fact that you yourself accept one and reject the others (whether you have actual knowledge of them or not) simply means that you have made a personal choice, while others have made different choices, and these are usually rooted in the culture that one is a part of. IMO all of these scriptures contain truths and we are free to accept those while making our own choices about how to live our lives.

And yes, many wars in history have been about religion. Maybe those in power started them, but religion was the fuel. You've heard of the crusades? You are aware of the persecutions in my own country when people belonged to the opposite religion as that of the reigning king or queen? Maybe you're not aware that Christians, Hindus and Muslims have vicious fights in India from time to time. Jews and Muslims don't get on very well in Israel. There would be more peace in the world if fewer people said, "Your god is not my god and you are infidels." IMO Hinduism is tolerant in this respect because it accepts figures from other religions as avatars of the divine.



If you lose your objectivity in emotions or if you no longer reason, you have ceased to be open-minded. I suspect that you and I would make this claim in very different ways.

Not so. None of them contain the same evidence. If they did, they'd be Bibles.
You assume nobody has done any homework whatsoever. Your capacity to project is quite impressive in one sense, and quite unimpressive in another.

Anyone who's heard such stories and would like to find out the truth of the matter would do well to read Vox Day's The Irrational Atheist. It's available free online, and he did an excellent job of debunking the pro-atheist antihistory. It'll still get repeated, of course, ad nauseum. Them people do love their falsehoods. ...Dearly.

Here's a sample of what real research reveals, for those who may not get around to reading the book, for one reason or another.

Let's see... you snip a couple of sentences out-of-context, acknowledge that you understand the original author's intent was different than the impression given by out-of-context quote, and then turn around and require Abishag to answer for those very same words as if you were quoting her own words verbatim.

I think it's pretty clear what you were attempting to gin up, and how you went about making the attempt.

Oh? Forgotten already? You accuse a party of insulting you when it hasn't happened. That constitutes a false accusation.

This "telling someone that they're not holy enough to be spoken to" is nonsense. Abishag has already done spoken to you in the past, so to even try to misinterpret any of the posts that way is doomed to fail.

What I gather is that Abishag has learned a little from experience, and perhaps followed a thread or two around here.

She probably read it in full context before typing it. What you were trying to find out is if you could pull a fast one. You have the result of your experiment.

I have looked. I have looked at several posts more than once. I take it you're talking about the post that begins "First of all, Abishag does NOT 'copy and paste'." There's nothing at all even close to "character assination"; neither is there anything insulting. If you choose to claim you're offended, or even be offended, I don't see what would make you think anyone else is responsible for your choice.
If I did, would you see it? I know your idea of fairness, by the way: a dozen outright liars slinging nonstop propaganda & slander against a creationist who gets suspended or banned if he even demonstrates a single slander to be untrue. No real creationist would be party to such, but you might try Glen Kuban's place. Or was it Glen Morton? I'm bad with names & they're so much alike...

I don't understand why you are carrying on with this when I wrote a conciliatory response to Russ. I don't agree with some of what he said but there's no point in arguing with him about it and I wanted to move on, which is what I thought we'd done.

I'm also not offended by Abishag's words as such; what irritates me is the method by she's responded to me (or not). She chooses to type these words here from ICR or whatever source it is. I think she should at least be willing to discuss them, that's what forums are for. If she is unable to then she shouldn't be posting them. In most other forums it is against the rules to paste or type big blocks of text from third parties; you'd be expected to state your case in your own words, with short quotes from other sources to back you up. I find it frustrating that that is not the case here but so be it. I can always respond to the words she's types without expecting her to say anything herself, thought it seems a silly situation.

Now that you've brought this back up, though, I think some things need to be made clear. Abishag said, in response to my questions about her post:



How else am I supposed to interpret this? Apparently I don't understand the Bible because I receiveth not the spirit of God, because I will be condemned on judgement day, and I'm not fit to be spoken to by her until I have, erm, met Jesus or been born again or somesuch thing. How else am I supposed to interpret this, if not "holier than thou"? No one else here has used this excuse for not talking to non-fundamentalists. I did ask her if this was what she meant by those words but she did not respond.

She also said:



I'm not offended by being told I don't have an open mind by her, but what she's trying to do is have digs at me in order to avoid any actual discussion of the topic at hand. The evasion is what I don't like. Remember?

Don't worry, if this carries on much longer I'll leave again, no doubt to the delight of all.

I must've missed it.

Most every forum I've seen has an "ingore" feature. I know of exactly one that requires (or required) anyone questioning the party line to respond to "questions" posed by its supporters.

In any case, you could set it up so you won't see Abishag's posts. If they trouble you so, it might be better that you do see them, but it's an option.
I interpreted it as one party being fed up with another party's ...stuff. Seems pretty simple.

Evasion? She ain't talkin' to you no more - unless you repent. That's not evasion. Aversion perhaps, but not evasion.

Don't worry about me worrying. Worry's for the unsaved, and largely for women even then.

I have no desire to give you evidence that A is wrong. That's too much work and I'm busy. I've already found these things out for myself. If you wish to know them, do your homework.

I'm not trying to be terse with you. I simply am being matter-of-fact because I believe you may have had too little of it (truth) in your life and consequently you grew up to be a touchy-feely socialist, and your belief system is the very one that will lead us into Armageddon; And all the way there, you -- and those sharing your belief system -- will blame religion.

It's truly ironic.



This is the line in the sand that you are simply unwilling to cross.

The fact is, there are mountains of evidence supporting the Bible, Christianity, Christ, and the Creation account - properly interpreted.

The ONLY reason people don't know this is because they don't want to, and the reason they don't want to is because they have been conditioned to believe that Christianity takes away their fun, that is, their idols, and they have been taught that they are free yet they don't even know what freedom is.

What an irony.



No it's not. Not even close.

I've heard and seen the "evidences" for the Koran, Buddha, and many others, and they are not evidences at all. They are the result of minds that cannot deal with logic and reason any longer because they are so desirous that these things are true, and because of this, their reasoning is plainly illogical. Their ability to reason is lost.

In short, it is not scientific. It's not even reasonable.

So, no, you are way off base and clearly uneducated about this subject because you have not studied the differences between how the Bible is evidenced and the way religions are massaged into being.

There is no comparison. None at all.

The Bible is packed full of revealed (now known) prophecy, symbolic numerology, and archeological evidences that are provable. No religion can accurately say this. None.

Those who don't know these things about the Bible don't know it because they don't want to because they've been conditioned to believe false things about the Bible. These false things are the very things that you claim here, and are clearly the result of soviet-style indoctrination in a corrupt escapist-socialistic system.



This is the rhetoric you will hear in the propagandist school systems, but it is simply not true.

The fact that you still believe it - is evidence that you blindly accept what you are told (you are a good little socialist) and you don't examine these things for yourself.



Any good lie is 90% truth, so yes, you will find truth in these other false belief systems, but the 10% deception will lead you to eternal loss, which is it's ultimate purpose.

And yes, you are free to pick and choose which "truths" you want to "believe", but you will accept the consequences just as you would walking blindfolded onto a highway.

I would highly advise taking time to get your own prejudices (idols) out of the way ("get yourself out of the way") and study these things. If you do these things, you will learn what we already know.



A statement like this is such a generalization that it has moved into the realm of untruth. You always let semantics blind you.

The fuel used in wars are lies. Some of those lies are based on religions, but let me give you an example of what happens in the real world.

The super-rich of the world are hindered in their conspiracy to create a new world order because of (1) the Bible, and because (2) Muslims continue to complain about the land they've lost to Israel.

So they devise a plan to get rid of both. They will start a war between their two enemies and let them destroy each other.

The super rich bomb the twin towers on 9-11. They blame it on Muslims. They then provoke Muslims by continually killing Palestinians using "Christian-backed" Israel.

Now there is animosity between the two, and a false war can be justified by both "publics", each side cheering on all the killing and bloodshed.

This is the way it really works.

If people would stop listening to the lying propaganda they are taught in school (this means you too) and study (instead of blindly believe what they're told), they will learn that the conspiratorialists are correct in this world view and that the real enemy is not each other, but rather those who set us against each other through lies and deception and false-flag attacks.

What is so astonishing is that just a few men literally control the world, and mainstream media is their Wizard of Oz.

It is the men behind the curtain who start and conduct wars, and it is the ignorant masses who cheer them on, all the while blaming "religion".

I love people, and I don't think the value of a person is dependent on their intelligence, however, knowledge of the true nature of the Wizard is hindered by the coveting of the masses, and the Wizard knows this and therefore keeps the masses occupied with all manner of coveting, idolatry, materialism, competitive pride, and all the vain things that are the root of rebellion; And through this incessant occupying and coveting, the Wizard keeps the masses in ignorance.

The fact is, they know you better than you know yourself.



The crusades were the result of the powers behind the catholic church not allowing the common people to have the Bible in their hands.

And why would they want to keep the Bible out the hands of the common people?

The same reason the new world order wants the Bible gone today:

Because the Bible teaches personal rights granted by God, and this wisdom makes it particularly hard to oppressively tax and rule the masses.

In short, the Bible returns power and personal responsibility to people, and does not allow others -- including governments -- to interfere with the lives of the people.

The crusades were not religious in nature. They were the same family of powerbrokers fighting to reclaim power they lost to the printing press.

The same thing is happening today with the internet. They have lost power because of this new ability to share and distribute information, and thereby comes the soon-approaching new-crusades.

Again, not religious, but powerbrokers fighting for control all all costs, or rather, turning man against man for their own profit and power: Divide and conquer.



Open your eyes Linda.

What is the "religion" of the king/queen?

It's the same as it was during the crusades (although they call it by a different name actually claiming it to be the opposite of what it is). It's all a different part of the same thing Linda.

Don't be so simple-minded as to look at this dirty word "religion" as the cause. "Religion" is only the object of blame to synthesize a "God-less" world: One where all the power is in the hands of the corrupt few. Business as usual.



And again Linda, why is this?

Because the powerbrokers took land from the Palestinians to form Israel after the war. And why did they do this?

Because they (the powerbrokers) will have their own king enter the temple and proclaim himself God, or prophet, and will rule the world. Again, it's the same group of people at work. Nothing different, and always for the same purpose:

Power.

Again, don't be so simple-minded as to blame that dirty word: "religion". You're being played Linda.



Again, this is a horribly naive belief, but it is synthesized in you by the propagandists who are shaping your world view to make you fit into their new world; The world they rule absolutely and with an iron fist.

The real problem here is ignorance, which comes from rebellion.

If people were willing to do real research and humble themselves and be willing realize that they may have been wrong about what they believed in the past, they would realize that the Bible is accurate and other "holy" books are deceptions.

If the whole world realized this about the Bible, then the powerbrokers would not be able to use anyone against anyone else to fight their profitable wars.

So the real enemy is ignorance rooted in rebellion.

Want to save the world from destruction? Then listen to the One who knows when He says "Repent!" (don't be rebellious).

When people do this, ignorance disappears and peace ensues.



Hinduism is replete with lies and deception. The word "tolerant" is simply a modern-day propagandists tool that really means:

Accept lies and deceit so you don't hurt the feelings of others.

The great irony is that Hinduism will deceive you into believing what the Bible calls "doctrines of demons", and these doctrines will lead you straight to personal destruction.

Tolerance of evil is evil.

Intolerance of intolerance is still intolerance.

The more evil you tolerate, the more evil you will endure.

You've still had a good try though, i.e. "you've been fed lies," "open your eyes," "you are naive." My eyes are wide open. We're never going to agree on this point.



The way I live my life and the choices I make are rooted in love for people. Again, we will never agree on this. I don't blame religion for the world's ills as some people do. You tell me that religion was not the sole causative factor of strife throughout history, and I'll grant that the root causes of conflicts are usually more complex. But it's equally incorrect to release it from blame. It isn't the majority of peaceful religious people who begin conflicts, it's fundamentalists of any faith. Look around the world at any point in time and you can see this happening. Why do you think the words "Islamic fundamentalist" cause so much terror in the western world today -- it's because they are willing to kill themselves and others in the name of their god.



You've studied these for years and you're as knowledgeable about them as you are of Christianity? Personally I've found a lot of truths in eastern religions and continue to do so. But I have no desire to argue about which religion is right or wrong. People change their minds about these things if/when they feel ready, and according to what they feel is right for them.



You often cite this as part of the "mountain of evidence" that the Bible is the one and only literally correct version of life, the universe and everything. We've talked about this before: prophecies can be made after the fact, they can be favourably interpreted after the fact, they can be made about events that are obviously going to happen, wrong prophecies can be conveniently forgotten . . . it's a long list. I personally believe that some people can and do see into the future, so maybe some Biblical prophecies indeed were real. The question then is, because someone accurately predicted the future, why does that mean that their religion is the correct one? The logic doesn't follow. People have been predicting the future since people existed, before Christianity and now. For example, here are some Native American prophecies (which make interesting reading in themselves):

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/nativeam.htm

Using your logic, their religion must be correct because they also can claim that their prophecies have been fulfilled. If you're going to try to debunk them then logically you're going to have to use the same criteria on the Biblical prophecies as well.



Well I'd expect you to say that. Interestingly, when I was Catholic, I did not believe that non-Catholics were evil people going to hell. There are a lot of good, kind, loving people in the world of all different faiths, but interestingly their faiths or their cultures still teach them that it is ideal to be good, kind and loving. Plus, I doubt if you know very much about Hinduism other than that it isn't Christian, but you're welcome to prove me wrong.



The city where I live, Leicester, has an ethnic minority population of almost 50%. This includes many Hindus (whose religion is evil according to you), Muslims and Sikhs. We haven't encountered the race riots that some other cities have, and we take pride in our multiculturalism. If you go to work here you can expect to work with Asian and black people of different cultures and faiths. Our Diwali celebrations are the largest in the world outside of India. It is tolerance of each other that has made us a successful community. If we decided to try to convert each other to what each of us believed was the correct faith, we would lose that. I know which way of life I would choose.

If your life is rooted in ignorance, then those around you who are blameless get hurt.

For example, if income tax is immoral, as the forefathers believed it was, then why do people get thrown in jail for not paying it?

Because people who selfishly remain ignorant do nothing to stop it.

Ignorance is not neutral. It is selfish and dangerous.

Living your life the way you choose has consequences. People get hurt, but ironically, the new-world belief system calls it love.

Another irony.

There is much wisdom in these verses:

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art [color:#CC0000]lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."[/color]
(Revelation 3:15-19)



Again, the fact that you're using the word religion displays your misinformed position on this issue.

Try calling it "a belief system". Then it will be easier to realize that it is false belief systems that are utilized by powerbrokers to cause wars.

False belief systems only exist because people live lives according to their own rules; They own "way". They don't seek truth. They don't study. They simply listen and adopt the "truth" that feels best to them.

This is the most selfish and destructive thing a person can do.

This is exactly why I said in my previous post that your belief system will lead us into Armageddon. It is your belief system that is the "religion" that will facilitate the murder of more in the next few years than have ever been killed in history in a short period of time.

An incredible irony indeed.

The Bible has the solution to this problem, if people would only learn it, but they won't. They are too rebellious.


You know nothing about what is really happening. Again, you are simply listening and adopting the "truths" that feel right to you and then parroting them.

The fact is, most terrorism today is based from CIA operation and funding. When/if you realize this, it will help you to realize the extent that people's beliefs are molded and used for destruction.

The words "Islamic fundamentalist" do not cause terror in the western world, but what little worry it does cause has been implanted by an owned/controlled media working to make you believe what benefits them.

It's a lie, Linda.



I have studied them enough to find logical flaws, contradictions, and subversive information that is contrary to science, logic, and reason.

Yes, there are a lot of truths there, but again I say, any effective lie is 90% truth.

You said...



That's because you have no real desire to know what belief system is true or not. It's work and you're tired, and it may isolate you from your friends, or family, or there is some other thing that keeps you from wanting to discover truth.

The bottom line is: You're afraid of something.

Usually, people are afraid of losing something they covet.



None of this applies to the Bible.

The Bible is the most copied, dated, verified, book on Earth, by far. It's simply not possible that prophecies were faked.

For example, the Isiah prophecies about the Arabah and the Dead Sea. It's impossible. The modern archeological digs. The world kingdoms that are verified by numerous historians and undisputed.

You simply are listening to new-world propaganda and not studying for yourself.



Accurately predicting the future is an evidence of super-natural activity. The Biblical prophecies center around world events that are enormous in scope. They also spoke more about modern times than any other time in history, and they did so with perfect accuracy, to the point that we can predict what will happen in the near future, like the Chinese invasion of the U.S., for example, and many other things.

There is no Book like it. Nothing comes close.

What is astonishing is that many people choose to take their information about it second-hand, despite the astounding information it contains, and the amazing evidence it displays.



Christianity did not start with the incarnation of Christ. Christianity began at the (re)creation of Earth, so you are mistake in speaking about events "before Christianity".

Secondly, your statement is simply not true. People have not been predicting the future throughout history. True that some have here and there, but these are clearly not benign instances when studied with logic and reason, and the do not compare with the accurate prediction of world kingdoms, rulers, and detailed events thousands of years in advance as the Bible does.

Nothing touches it.

Nothing Linda.



Some is interesting. Some not. The most interesting pertain to the Holy Spirit (the "Great Spirit") and the flood account, and many other "Christian" prophecies.

Interesting predictions indeed.



Not so.

You're quick to make judgments without examination.

Their "religion" is a muddled mix of Christian beliefs which have much accurate truth and some spiritism, which are the "doctrines of demons".

Like most other cultures, there is a mixture of truth and lies. So it is nonsensical to say "Their religion must be right".

Let's be accurate in our statements and say, some of it is correct, and some of it isn't, just as Buddhism, and Islam, etc.

Remember, any good lie is 90% truth.



And Christians don't believe that all Catholics are going to hell either.

There is a hell, there are demons, there is evil on the world, and so -- you know -- truth is not always easy. It's not always comfortable and touchy-feely.

Truth is hard, but it's doable.

Truth is not subject to our whims.

Hell is for people who reject God. Rejecting God is as simple as refusing to know Him -- staying ignorant; It's a horrible thing to do.

Hinduism is a very open belief system, but unfortunately, it is illogical, flawed, deceptive, unscientific, and is another one of the smorgasbord of belief systems designed by fallen entities to bring you down with them.



You make my point well Linda.

Most people of most religions have no interest in hurting other people. Christians spread the truth they have discovered because it is empowering, liberating, verifiable as reasonable truth (scientifically), and most of all because they love people and want them to be saved from the coming judgement.

It's healthy for people to mix and mingle their walk through life that they may influence others for good. Christians have been doing that since the beginning. Christ ate with sinners and tax collectors.

Knowing the truth does not mean killing people.

But all this is moot.

You're life will end. You will die. Then what?

What is 70 years compared to eternity?

Don't you want to know the truth?

If not, why not?

If you meed God, how will you explain your apathy towards truth to Him?

This is not a game Linda. That highly-complex, symmetrical, self-reproducing body that you now possess will not continue forever. The question is, will you get another one that does, or don't you care enough to find out.

Are you simply going to rely on second-hand information, television shows, text books, commentaries, hearsay to determine what you believe?

This is not a game.

Study.

I've been wondering again why I get myself into conversations about religion with fundamentalists -- we start talking about one thing and seem to drift off. We've ended up for the twentieth time or so with you reiterating what I already know you believe, which is:

Fundamentalist Christianity and the Bible are the only truths.
Conspiratorial organisations have vast power over the world and this explains everything from apparently religious wars to people being ill.
Anyone who doesn't agree with you is ignorant, irresponsible, blind, etc etc.
Politically you are very conservative.
You have "done your homework."
You don't need to present any evidence for what you say because it's obviously true.

You don't even prefix your statements with IMO because you're so certain that thy are true. Which makes it a bit pointless to carry on this discussion the way it has been. I think I'd prefer to wait for Abishag to type something else that I disagree with.

One last thing, you said:


I will spend some time in the spirit realm and then be reincarnated. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, and our purpose on this planet is to evolve as loving souls. IMO. Please spare me your "words of wisdom" about how this is ignorant, irresponsible, blind, etc etc. Notice that I haven't used these pejorative words to you or anyone else here, no matter how much I might disagree with you.

Hello CTD, I hope you are doing well.

Enjoy this short story, regarding 'Creativity':

"Make a Pearl"

~~~~~~~~~~~~
The most extraordinary thing about the oyster is this: irritations get into his shell. He does not like them. But when he cannot get rid of them, he uses the irritation to do the loveliest thing an oyster ever has a chance to do.

If there are irritations in our lives today, there is only prescription: MAKE A PEARL!

-------------
From: Stories For the Heart/ Alice Gray

Good Afternoon CTD!

I was just re-reading some of the 'Creativity' posts. I like the way you point out the beauty of nature.

I will share this "Stories for the Heart" by Alice Gray:

HE'S CRAZY ABOUT YOU ! --

If God had a refrigerator, your picture
would be on it.

If He had a wallet, your photo would
be in it.

He sends you flowers every Spring and
a sunrise every morning.

Whenever you want to talk, He'll listen.

He can live anywhere in the universe,
but he chose your heart.

What about the Christmas gift
He sent you in Bethlehem;
not to mention that Friday at
Calvary.

Face it, He's crazy about you.

Have a good life, CTD!

Blessings, Abishag <>< JESUS IS LORD!

Hmmm, ((( Smiles )))

Such a long thread to digest at this time and such little time in life for me right now.
Expecially when one is careing for special needs children that is.
But I do agree that a person has the right on this board to ignore if one chooses to do so..
as there is that option provided toward subjects or persons that one may feel is takeing them into endless or circular debates if they so wish too.

Hi Linda,
You seem to have your own rules and standards that you want everybody else to live by on this board.
Your point of reference..
And we all can't live by your rules and fit into that box it seem's you want us all to fit into.
And I can tell it frustrates you as much as it frustrates others
to no end that we can't and won't do just that.
See it like you see it at times..

But I understand what Russ wrote as it can take time away from other things for me that I would rather do more so at this time.
At least for me..
Timewise like this.

I have no desire to give you evidence that A is wrong.
That's too much work and I'm busy.
I've already found these things out for myself.
If you wish to know them, do your homework.

I kind of feel that way myself.
Look it up for yourself, please do.
If you really are interesting in knowing that is.
Probably alot of it has already but posted and gone over many times on this board anyway in the past it would seem..
If you really want to know.
This is a Creation and Evolution site and I would hope here that people can express themselves in whatever way they feel like contributing as in their style,
their form of expression of shareing how they feel/believe
on the subject and not "just" for a limited debate if they want to share with others, on this subject Creativity..
You may find it boring but not everybody does & see's it like you do.
There are people that enjoy reading these's posts.
The ones who don't just choose to read something else instead.
There are people that do feel you are just being argumentive and set in your ways and it's not really a debate at all.
You may feel that others are set in their ways as well too.
As I see that there are other poster's here as well as non posting readers on this thread..
Who choose to do so.
So others can post here and are welcome to if they really want too.
As well as on other threads that Abishag has already contributed to on this board..
She is not shutting out or just ignoreing "your words" everyone.
Even though she "has" responded to you but maybe not in the way you would like her to respond that is.
It seems from what I have read above that she has her own reasons for not wanting to get into it with you.
Not getting argumentive from what I have seen mentioned above.
If you want to spend time in the spirit realm reincarnation ect..
Nobody has edited your expression of your beliefs in that.
Just because there are people who don't agree with you here on that and are just as vocal in there beliefs as you are..
I just disagree with your perspective on certain things.
And that is my right to do so freely, I hope so.
On this board.
As long as it's within the rules set by the ones who make them.
Not fellow board members.
But getting back to what you asked.
That's not for me to answer.
The only thing I wanted to add is..
I don't believe Abishag is breaking any rules on this board.
This subject creation and evolution is a broad brush and leaves room for infinite topics.
And ways to express them.
And Creativity is one way to do so.
Just my two cents for whatever it's worth..

Stay Well
Lynn

Do you believe that two (or more) facts that conflict can both be true?

Logic and reason says that there is only one truth. Why do you dispute that?



If you continue to neglect researching this truth, you will find yourself accepting the long-prophesied mark of the beast, and this will bind you to eternal hell.

Don't do it. It's a foolish thing to do.

We'd prefer you avoid that future and spend it with us instead.



We are all ignorant, irresponsible, blind at some time in our life. God expects us to grow out of this.

Anyone who hold concurrent conflicting beliefs and refuses to research to find out what is true and what is not is considered apathetic and rebellious.

There is one truth. Truth does not conflict with truth.

Please, do your homework.



For the most part, but my positions would not always be accepted by modern conservatives.

Modern-day conservatives tend to be very ignorant of the enormous conspiracies that are now forming the new world order (their title, not mine).

The Bible predicted this would happen thousands of years ago and warned us against taking the mark that they will compel you to accept.



Thank God for the stamina to finish what I start. To Him goes the credit, forever.



Over the course of the years, I have presented you with mountains of evidence, as have many others here, but you refuse to hear it or even acknowledge it.

We have all witnessed you doing this. It's rather strange to us that one would choose to do this.



I know what I know because I have indeed done my homework.

When I don't know something, I am the first to admit it.

There are countless things that I don't know.



It's only pointless if you continue to refuse to look at the evidence. Shamefully, you do.



Why not be tolerant and just let her be?



Reincarnation is an evil philosophy designed to give you an excuse to continue in sin so that your soul will be destroyed.

You believe you have another chance. The one book in the history of the world that contains massive amounts of prophecy, numerology, and admonitions about life tells you that reincarnation is a lie, yet you refuse to even consider it.



This mantra is also constantly misapplied by emotionally-guided persons looking for an excuse to continue in sin.

Study, and you will realize that the Bible is accurate and that this belief system of yours is a road to deception.



God gives most 50 to 70 years to make a decision about what kind of person we will be:

(1) Logical, sound-minded, loving, or
(2) Self delusional, constantly making excuses, redefining flattery as love: You make others feel good so they like you, and this is considered love.

We are expected to be more insightful than that. God does not like excuses, but He loves those who obey Him, just as a mother loves those children who obey her.



As a truth-seeker and researcher, I would have preferred that you tell me that way it is. Instead, your philosophy prefers to flatter people all the way to hell.

No. We are adults. We can handle truth, despite it being hard, we can handle it, and God expects us to, and He enables us to.

"The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end."

Choose rather to honor God, your creator, and put your trust in Him rather than into your emotions.

Your emotions are being used to deceive you.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
(Jeremiah 17:9)

So it seems I've outlined your belief system correctly, which is not difficult to do. I'm not sure why you felt a need to write a post telling me I ought to believe those things too. I'm not interested in carrying on a lengthy discussion about this because it's a matter of belief and I don't agree with you. I'm not going to take on board your anxiety about conspiracies or a punishing god, nor am I going to allow myself to be brainwashed to the extent that I start typing words from my leaders without thinking about them to any great degree because I believe the leaders speak holy words. I have a mind of my own and I will continue to use it.



What philosopher said this, or did it come from the Book of Russ? I don't understand how someone who has lived for so many years and seen a bit of life can think this.



Those Native American prophecies were pretty cool too. You tried to find bits that you could shoehorn into congruence with Bible stories and dismissed the rest for no logical reason. Stop calling me willfully blind if you're going to do this sort of thing yourself.



You are telling me to be tolerant, after the posts you've recently typed here.

I have a bee in my bonnet about people not using their brains. My job involves making people think. If she's going to type things about creationism and evolution here then I believe she ought to think about them, which is what my questions are designed to do. I would do the same to an evolutionist who simply pasted chunks of text without commentary -- though strangely, I haven't encountered that yet.

In fact, I am going to try hard to keep my conversations along those sorts of lines. I hear a lot from you about how you are right and I am wrong but you don't present any logical evidence, just personal beliefs that you try to pass off as evidence. You also ignore a lot of scientific evidence that contradicts the idea of a 6,000 year old earth on which life was created all at once. I suspect you will simply dismiss this out of hand as well, now that there's really no one left here to carry on presenting evidence for evolution. Cognitive dissonance theory states that you and others here won't listen to it anyway, you never have before, which is why I'm not spending so much of my time doing it here anymore.

My favourite conversations include the words why, maybe, and what if. You might think about including them in your vocabulary. They don't have to be frightening; on the contrary, they will open up worlds for you.

Thanks. That's been posted before somewhere else, but it never hurts to be reminded of good news.

I've been trying to figure out for a couple of days now what the scoffer must think of the Gospel (which literally means "good news"). It is the best news of all, yet they hate it passionately.

I think it would be good if we could figure out a way to tell them the bottom line: God loves you and desires the best for you. I expect more than a handful realize this, but possibly not all. And if they can't figure it out from scripture, who am I to put it into better terms?

It's complicated, and I'm rambling. Sorta tends to happen when one receives communication on a subject one was already contemplating.

This has been a good thread. God's creativity is brilliant and superabundant. His ingenuity in providing for even the lowliest creatures is just amazing. His artistry is beautiful beyond words.

I Thought, ((( Smiles )))

Russ believed in an older earth..
As..





I think I know what he's talking about.
As I have studied this all years before I came to this network as...
Isn't this what Russ believe's???

On Russ Explains his position on creation??
http://orbisvitae.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=44901#Post44901

But as in the common threads one may find on this planet..
It is as if there was a common pool from which each religion drew it's basic beliefs..
Which can be traced back to Babylon, the Mespotamain cradle of most religions but from a Bibical viewpoint we can explain threads
when we recall that after the Flood, at God's behest mankind spread out from Babel in Mesopotamia more then 4,200 years ago.

I've read alot on all that stuff too.
I do think alot about this myself about what went on in the past and what is to come from it all in the future.
Yes..
Alot of it does come down to belief and faith but it's not from not useing my brain.
Day and night...
Over years and years..
I have thought about this alot and..
I have read read and read alot myself too.
Lots of people who believe as I do are highly educated .
They have considered it all as well..
And have come to this conclusion on life.
I really believe what I share and I am so sure that this is the truth.
And I believe that seducing spirits are personal beings.
That a mixture is takeing place in the seen and the unseen world.
Even at this time as in the past.

And as the world gets globally closer in form and the world will be divided into three sections:
" The Coming One- World Economy, " The Comeing- One World Government, " The Comeing- One World Religion."
As written about in scripture so long ago..
There's nothing I can do about things to come weither one believes in the scriptures or not.
What will be will be regardless of what anyone thinks.
But I have came to this conclusion not by not thinking but by researching and thinking about it alot.
And in my searching for God..
This is what I found to make the most sense and to be true.
Everybody has to live their own life make their own minds up.
As God gave mankind free will to decide what to do with it.
It's Gods gift to us all.
The freedom to accept or reject.
I'm not going to change what I believe either.
To be true.
So there is that divide.
Live and let live.
We all grow together in the world untill the harvest comes.
Thats the way it was meant to be.
And thats the way it is.
For me.

2 Corinthians 11:4
or if you recieve another spirit.. you might well bear with him.."
Yes.. I believe in a spirit world it truely exists.
Here and now.

And if they can't figure it out from scripture, who am I to put it into better terms?
That fits for me as well.
It can just go nowhere.

I'm not interested in carrying on a lengthy discussion about it too..
With people who don't want too recieve it.
It's not fruitfull for me to do so.
Everyone has to live their own life and make their own choices.
I share with thoses who care to recieve it.
It's just one mouse click away.

Liveing in the Latter Days..
Thats my life.
The way I see it.
Try To Stay Well..
Lynn

Yes you are correct about Russ. Most here are YECs but Russ seems to think the earth is older than 6,000 years. I don't recall that he's pinned himself down to an exact age but I do recall that it wasn't billions of years. He still believes that all life that ever existed was created all at once, and a recent global flood. Evidence from a wide variety of scientific disciplines does not support these beliefs but that's been addressed in many other threads here.

Yes That Is True, ((( Smiles )))

Russ does as he has written on the board before that he is not a typical Christian which I believe he means that his interpertation of and research on it/subjects
is more then just the regular basic understanding of.

There are many Churchs out there under the Christian umbrella and I'm not including in that picture Gnostic or the New Age Movement
as that is a different Gosple warned about to Christians even though they liberally use lots of Scriptures from the Bible with a twist on it..
But there is a reason for that got to go back to things happening in history in scriptures for an understanding of that.
It's another Jesus they are waiting for which according to the Bible will lead to the worship of the Anti-Christ instead of Jesus.
But thats another subject..
My point is, that I believe Russ has read and listened to other Churchs interpertations of it with an open mind as he is not one to just go just with a Name Brand
of a Church as he believes that alot of Churchs if not all if I understand it right..
May be corrupted in some form or may not have it all 100 percent correct though they may agree on the basics of Christian beliefs.
And mostly all agree with each other..
Open minded in that sense and of course I do not want to speak for him or put words into his mouth as I may not be totally accurate
on this it's just what I got out of what he was saying about his beliefs on the board.

But there are alot of varibles that can effect dateing methods and saline/salt is one ot them..
And as I believe in a worldwide flood thats why things are under silt/buried.
Sink and float proven concepts..
There is so much more on this and I know there are ministries all over the place that do keep up with this subject and dig deeper
of what so called new is out there and how they define it..
The devil is in the details you've heard that saying before I'm sure..
But about the creative length of the days..
We know what God said to Adam and Eve that in the day you eat partake of this forbidden fruit you shall die.
And nobody in the Bible has lived over a thousand years after that though close..
But on the subject of considering the length of the creative days.
Days or Ages..
The definition of the meaning of that is subject to the definition of the word "day" translation of the word and the church.
And we know that word/interpretation can go from being a literal day to eons.
Depending on ones translation of it.
Also in cross reference with other uses of in translation of the word in other Bible verses.
But to me, all that isn't that terribly important in the bigger picture of what God calls us to do.
The Laws of Life is absolute and life is Governed by Laws..
And who set thoses laws into motion God..
Thats what I believe and why to me though there are ministries that spend alot of time and effert on this subject
and searching out the details and exposeing them in the Christian world..

To me what I find is more important and called on for me to do..
Is shareing my faith the good news Gosple with all the bad news that comes with it..
For thoses who aren't prepared for whats comeing according to Scripture..
With others..
Thats what I feel is more important for me to do at this time.
We may disagree on certain things or most things..
But as God is a God of freewill and a gift so graciously given to us while we live out our lives on this plant..
A person has the free will to except or reject or follow Jesus or Satans deception thats comeing and already here if one chooses to do so.
I do not believe in the god of forces that is not the God of freewill and choice.
While one lives out their own life as they choose to do so.
And this is how I choose to live mine.
For me..
It's as simple as that.
I know that Russ does what he does because he cares about your future prospects and about you in that way.
As well as others..
And not saying I don't..
Just saying live and let live..
Thats why I just like to share..
It's up to that person it's not up to me to decide what they do with it.

So, Try To Stay Well
Lynn

This is one of the fundamental contradictions that you hold.

You say that it's a matter of belief, yet you constantly ask for evidence of God and Biblical creation.

While it is true that you can choose to believe whatever you want, you need to be aware that this relativism is not without consequences.

The evidence demonstrating the Bible as -- accurate -- is abundant and readily available.

For me and many/most Christians, belief in Someone (God) does not come without evidence, and this is only wise. We would be foolish to put our faith in someone who has not proven themselves to us.

The Bible is full of revealed prophecy and archeological evidence. Never before in history have we had so much evidence.

It's only astonishing that people are so negligent of it and choose rather to follow emotions rather than evidence.



Interesting that you should attempt to associate conspiracies with "anxiety" (fear). The irony here is that those who do not study -- and therefore do not believe in -- conspiracies are those who are afraid:

http://urlbam.com/ha/Nzzz



A punishing God to those who live in rebellion and apathy.

A loving, kind, and merciful God towards those who know and obey Him.

The choice He leaves to you.



Ironically, you already are.

You -- admittedly -- have not studied the Bible, yet you hold strong opinions about it; Opinions based on the beliefs of -your- "holy" prophets.

I would remind you that Biblical prophets' words have been tested and have been shown, through evidence, to be true.

Your belief in reincarnation is baseless except for human speculation and myth. The only "evidence" is circumstantial and is demonically induced, yet you accept it because you are emotionally baffled by the ability of some to know things that they don't have any contact with.

Yet, you shameface the Bible on the same basis?

Again, contradictory beliefs, and you hold many.



If you have such a mind, why not study the Bible and find out what all the hoopla is about?



So, you believe that multiple contradictory truths can exist?

Is this a "scientific" belief?

Linda, Linda!



Shoehorn?

You mean the entire ark and the flood account?

So why is the native ark and flood account cool but the identical Biblical one is not?

How can you call these virtually identical accounts "shoehorning"?

Oh yes, it's because you are using propagandistic words to attempt to baffle our feeble minds

Why the discrimination against the Bible, which you admittedly know nothing about? Yet you continue to parrot what you've been told, and yet you claim to have a mind of your own.

How ironic dear Linda.

Salvation is not a game. This is a very serious subject.

If you plan to take the "mark" ("biometric id") of Revelation 13, you had better hope that this 2000 year-old prophecy is dead wrong, woman.



I'm simply pointing out that you don't practice what you preach.



Case in point.



Does your job including encouraging people to study the Bible for themselves?

No.

Your job actually involves telling people what to think. You do work for a school system, don't you?



Actually, you have, and your response was a firm pat on the back. Nothing about requesting explanations.

You see Linda, you really like speaking to people who support your multiple-reality "tolerant" world view. You don't like being challenged or made to search your own soul.



I have presented much evidence. I have also recommended books that contain evidence that you can read.

Have you?

No.

Why?

Because you don't want to know.

Why?

Because you are afraid that it might require you to abandon your idols.

Linda, this is not a game.



Wow. I have told you directly many times now that I do not believe in a 6000 year old Earth. I also don't believe the Bible teaches it. I have thoroughly explained this to you before.

Have you forgotten?

Life did, however, all appear at once, and even many evolutionists acknowledge the strong evidence for this.



This comment should cause you to examine your own heart, Linda.



Developing a world view is not about what we like. It's about hard facts and evidence.

My world view is based on hard evidence. Yours is based on personal preference, vast speculation, ancient myth, and tightly-held emotion.

And again, you attempt to associate fear with my evidenced belief, when it is you who are afraid to face the fact that evidence abounds for Bible accuracy.

Again I say to you Linda, this is not a game.

Those who rebelliously reject God's truth will not be in His Kingdom. You need to think long and hard about what you are doing.

You also need to realize that a relationship with God brings peace and personal power. You don't believe this because you have not tried it. You have not humbled yourself and given God the sincere invitation to come into your life.

You have, instead, held onto your idols and refused to learn the very things He taught, even through He did it for your benefit.

Rebellion against God is no joke.

Please humble yourself and study the Scriptures so you too can find the evidence for it's integrity that millions around the world have known for centuries.

You do want to draw this discussion out Russ. Your response above is entirely predictable. I'll admit when I am wrong, and I've been wrong recently here, in that I forgot that the only way to have a substantial discussion with creationists is to stick to hard empirical evidence. Attempting to talk philosophically unfortunately doesn't work. I'm going to go back to square one and wait to dispute scientific inaccuracies.

What's amazing is that you demand evidence from creationists, admit that your belief system is based on "belief", and then get insulted when creationists refuse to answer you.

I'll also remind you that

highly-complex,

symmetrical,

sexual (different organisms having perfectly compatible reproductive systems),

self-replicating (which involves numerous positive and negative feedback mechanisms working together along with mountains of irreducibly complex machinery)

machines (human bodies designed for temporary human inhabitation while we make a decision about God)

do not design and manufacture themselves, no matter how much time you give to the rocks, the water, and the dirt.

Evolution is a fairy tail invented to remove God from society so the powerbrokers can assume His position.

The time we are about to enter is the same as the crusades. People got smart by reading the Bible. They then learned about God inalienable rights and began demanding the rights that God gave to them. The ruling class then imprisoned, tortured, and murdered these smart and passionate people leaving the easily-ruled apathetic masses as their subjects.

By defending evolution, you are defending the very principle upon which the crusades where established and justified.

When you see all these laws being passed today that say that Ron Paul supporters, gun-rights advocates, Constitutional law advocates, and Christian cult groups (Bible-believing Christians) are potential terrorists, what is happening in reality is that the government is preparing to imprison, torture, and murder the smart people.

The new crusades are about to begin and the smart people -- the ones who have the solution to this problem -- are about to be silenced... again.

When you continue to refuse to read the Bible and learn about what is really going on, you become a party to these crimes against humanity by remaining willfully ignorant. This is why God is very upset with this type of rebellion (willful ignorance).

"This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?

for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
(2 Peter 3:1-9)

Please take the time to learn for time is running short and God nor Christian wants to see you go the other way.

I think you're aware that I was referring to religious beliefs. I know that you like to claim that evolution is a religious belief and that you dismiss the empirical evidence supporting it. Like I said, I will wait to comment further until someone posts specific scientific inaccuracies.

One last thing. You said:



You have no idea what I do. I teach students how to improve their reading and writing skills. We read stories and books from a wide variety of authors and genres and talk about the ideas in them. I do not tell students what to think. Sorry to shatter your preconceived notions about the evils of public schools. They can be improved in some fundamental ways but we are not the thought police. I'll save that comment for people who think that we ought to teach their holy book in school to the exclusion of all other faiths.

You have now lectured me on being blind, misguided, illogical, ignorant, intolerant (ironically), and an unthinking pawn of the corrupt state -- all because I don't agree with you. Most posts by other fundamentalist creationists here have contained similar unpleasantries, though to be fair Bex and Lynn make an effort to be polite. I wonder if you think you're setting good examples for the people you want to convert.

This is no empirical evidence supporting evolution. None.

Every time I've studied some specific subject related to a claim of an evolution-related proof, I found that the conclusions were flawed or superfluous. Every time.

There is no evidence supporting evolution. All of the apparent evidence is fabrication and misapplication. All of it.



Yes I do.



You have not shattered anything.

You have not provided any empirical evidence.

The public schools are the chief disseminators of disinformation. In fact, nearly any system put into the hands of a trusted government soon becomes corrupt.

The fact that you don't know that is by reason of your apathy. By reason of your willful apathy, we shall enter the next crusade.

The ultimate proof of your apathy will come in the day that you reach out your hand and allow a mark to be placed upon it; A mark by which you will buy and sell.

I truly hope you don't do that.



Truth ought to be taught in school, and school should be private.



Wrong again. You are not listening at all, are you?

You are uneducated about these things because you don't study. You don't study because you don't care.

That's all.



Like I said many times, the truth can be hard, but we can handle it.



I don't convert anybody.

I tell the truth. The truth converts.

The truth that I am telling you does not offend those who have studied and understand it. It only offends those who:

(1) Are emotionally based (please their feelings above all else, including logic and reason), or

(2) Have no interest in the truth.

Hell is real. Rebellion is real. Your statements that you have made on this system clearly reveal your demeanor.

I am doing you a favor by telling you the truth. I am loving you by telling you the truth.

If I was only interested in flattering you, I would tell you things that I know make you feel good. People who do this are not friends at all, and they are not loving you by their flattery.

This is a good lesson to learn from the Bible

Christ came and told the truth and look what you did to Him.

Christ warned us that those preaching the truth in this day will be hated by many people. Rebellious people gravitate to their lowest form and kill the Messenger.

If only people would be willing to rise above their selfishness, but they won't, except for a remnant (a very small part) that will.

SCIENCE NOW KNOWS THAT MANY OF THE PILLARS OF DARWINIAN THEORY ARE EITHER FALSE
OR MISLEADING. YET BIOLOGY TEXTS CONTINUE TO PRESENT THEM AS FACTUAL EVIDENCE OF
EVOLUTION. WHAT DOES THIS IMPLY ABOUT THEIR SCIENTIFIC STANDARDS?
-- JONATHAN WELLS

http://www.discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/survivalOfTheFakest.pdf

Link for link then.

Icons of Evolution



Gosh, that sounds familiar. But we all know, don't we, that Wikipedia is full of lies typed by evil people who want to deceive the righteous.

Icons of Obfuscation

Actually there are a dozen or more articles on TalkOrigins that dispute Wells' claims in detail. But we all know that TalkOrigins is full of lies typed by evil people who want to deceive the righteous.

I prefer to debate specific points rather than letting videos and links do the talking. This of course means that one has to be able to put forward their point in their own words and show they understand what they are talking about.

Since you are regurgitating posts (something you accused others of doing in the past), I will do the same:

Your quote is nothing more than a biased editorial comment. Of course a devout evolution-fundamentalist will support his church.



Is this the best that he can do: Fault him for referencing established research?

Weak, very weak.


Actually, this (below) is an excellent and effective article. All should read it and make up their own minds.

http://www.discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/survivalOfTheFakest.pdf

"It is therefore of immediate concern to both biologists and layman that Darwinism is under attack. The theory of life that undermined nineteenth-century religion has virtually become a religion itself and, in its turn, is being threatened by fresh ideas. The attacks are certainly not limited to those of the creationists and religious fundamentalists who deny Darwinism for political and moral reason. The main thrust of the criticism comes from within science itself. The doubts about Darwinism represent a political revolt from within rather than a siege from without."

—B. Leith, The Descent of Darwin: A Handbook of Doubts about Darwinism (1982), p. 11.

No it isn't the best he can do. I don't think you've read the articles I linked to, but this is the problem when everyone on the forum can just say "look at this link or this video." No one has to actually read or watch all or anything, but it's easy to keep putting the links up anyway. It also becomes impossible to debate these because you might be presented with 100 or more possible topics for discussion. When you have a specific point of your own to make about something scientific, I can discuss with you. For example, I've always been curious about how people convince themselves that there was a global flood but every time I posted in that thread, the creationists soon resorted to diversionary tactics. Maybe we can go back there and talk about the scientific evidence (or lack thereof) for that.

Any person who wants to go back and analyze the history of your postings will see that it is evolutionists that resort to diversionary tactics.

My history of debate with evolutionists comes to this:

They blindly believe what textbooks and evolutionist-clergy say without analyzing the information themselves. Here is a great example in the beginning of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF7AzxplsME


I invite anyone watching to examine any of this list of resources and -- using your common sense -- draw conclusions about evolution.

The short of it is this Linda:

Evolution is a social control designed to alter society in such a way as to facilitate the profits of its (the evolution religion) profits.


Resources

CreationWiki
Countering the spin on the talk origins website, this comprehensive wiki provides the ammo you need to see through the deception.

A Critique of Douglas Theobald’s "29 Evidences for Macroevolution"[/b]
In "29 Evidences for Macroevolution," Dr. Theobald sets forth the evidence that he believes proves scientifically that all organisms share the same biological ancestor. In this critique, I argue that his evidence is insufficient to establish that proposition.

[b]Our Solar System: Scientific Evidence for Creation (video)[/b]
This video provides scientific information directly from a space sciences engineer that strongly evidences creation. He continues by providing statements by evolutionists that clearly reveal their inability to reconcile even the most fundamantal scientific information regarding our solar system. An excellent video for all to watch.

[b]Redefining Evolution: The Grand Retreat Begins (video)[/b]
This is a 10-minute video demonstrating how the compliant media is working together with pop-science to rescue evolution. This video reveals the blatant retreat underway from evolution's original claims.

[b]Creation vs Evolution - Part 1 of 2 (video)

Creation vs Evolution - Part 2 of 2 (video)
An excellent video exposing the media lies promoting the theory of evolution. This video also speaks about junk science and its incessant promotion in public text books.

Lies In the Textbooks (video)[/b]
Kent Hovind provides and excellent expose of the junk-science and outright lies that are being forced upon schoolchildren in a blatant attempt to discredit the Bible using public tax dollars.

[b]Evolution's Moral Implications (video)[/b]
Every belief system has an implicit set of consequences. Many people are now realizing that a belief in evolution has the ability to profoundly affect personal behavior and the foundations of society as a whole.

[b]The Evolution of Man Scientifically Disproved in 50 Arguments
This is a very interesting article from the 1920's that is certainly worth reading. The information is quite in-depth and it provides a well-rounded view of evolution's many fatal flaws.

Drama In the Rocks: How New Sediment Discoveries Debunk the Fossil Record Hypothesis[/b]
The old claims about how sediments are deposited are the basis for dating and categorizing fossils, but new discoveries about sedimentary science are causing scientists to completely rethink these claims.

[b]Do Amino Acids Self-Assemble Into Proteins?
A short explanation by Dr. Kenyon that amino acids cannot assemble into proteins without the help of the mind-bogglingly complex machinery in the human body that was obviously designed just for this purpose.

Why Was the Flat-Earth Myth Promoted? (video)
This video exposes the real reason why evolutionists claim that Christians used to believe that the Earth was flat. This video exposes yet another lie used to defame Biblical integrity in the minds of those who have no knowledge of the Bible.

The Irrational Atheist
"The Vox is in the henhouse, with the scent of Dawkins’s blood in his nostrils and a mouthful of Hitchens’s feathers! Harris, alas, doesn’t make it out of the book alive and the emergency team is still waiting to see if Dawkins will pull through after receiving one of the most visceral literary lobotomies ever inflicted in publishing. In the culture wars between New Atheism and The Rest of the World, The Irrational Atheist is 'must-read' material."
—Ian Wishart, Investigate Magazine

Astounding Computer Animation of DNA-Related Processes (video)[/b]
Amazing CGI visualization of molecular biology's central dogma. It shows animations of DNA coiling, replication, transcription and translation. It was created by Drew Berry of the Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research.

[b]Creation / Evolution Debate: Dr. Kent Hovind vs Dr. Ben Waggoner (video)[/b]
An interesting debate between two brilliant men: Dr. Kent Hovind is a renown creationist who has toured speaking and lecturing on the creation/evolution subject hundreds of time. Dr. Waggoner is a biology professor from the University of Central Arkansas.

[b]Scientific Truth Journal Explores Evolution (animated video)[/b]
An animation showing how archaeological discoveries are made and then categorized (comedy).

[b]Evolutionary Processes Caught On Camera (animated video)[/b]
A short animation demonstrating the depths of evolution.

[b]Earth Science Associates
Did you know that scientific evidence abounds to support the biblical accounts of creation and the flood? Were you aware that reports outlining this evidence passed peer review, and were published in the open scientific literature? Have you heard that, decades later, this evidence still stands unrefuted by the scientific community?

[b]Dinosaurs in Ancient Cambodian Temple[/b]
Did mankind and dinosaurs coexists, as the Bible implies? This website may help settle the question.

The bottom line Linda is that matter does not form highly-complex, symmetrical, sexual (separate organisms have perfectly compatible reproductive systems), self-reproducing machines no matter how much time you give them.

This belief -- evolution -- is on par with insanity.

Hi there Lynn!

I was reading in the "1001 Quotes and Illustrations" Book, and thought this might be an ideal spot to type it. ENJOY!



INCARNATION --

ONE evening my three-year-old son and I were sitting at the dinner table looking outside at the birds. I began telling him interesting facts about our feathered friends.

Suddenly, my son looked me square in the eye and said, "How do you, Dad, Were you a bird once?"

Take care and thanks for the kind
words. Abishag <><

Hi Russ,

I commend you on all of the replies/debates that you have given to the unbelievers reading these posts.

More than just the 'one person who is responding' are reading your indepth, well-thought-out comments and Bible verses. Thank the Lord, this is the WWW. I must say, you have a great deal of patience and much compassion for 'the lost'. On the authority of God's Word, you will be well rewarded in the Celestial City. Matthew 25:31-46 bears witness to this.

One day we shall see who is right or wrong, and the Lord WILL separate the 'sheep from the goats' and one will enter the the eternal Celestial City and the others will go to the bottom-less pit,the Abyss, HELL, prepared for Satan and his followers. THAT IS A FACT!
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"We are afraid that heaven is a bribe, and that if we make it our goal we shall no longer be disinterested. It is not no so. Heaven offers nothing that a mercenary soul can desire. It is safe to tell the pure in heart that they shall see God, for only the pure in heart want to." C.S.Lewis

Russ, as you well know, the one principle of hell is "I am my own!"

Keep up the wonderful ministry that you have. It never ceases to amaze me of the people who adamantly declare themselves to be so intelligent, will NOT even read the Bible to find out for themselves, before they want to criticize it and ridicule it's Words of Life.

What they don't like, Russ, is that the world and the Cross do not get along too well together, and comfort and holiness do not share the same room. Darkness and Light DO NOT MIX!

We are called to 'go and tell', it is the Holy Spirit's job to do the convicting. "Some plant (the seeds), some water, but God gives the increase."

Thank you for allowing this Forum to be on your Herb Allure business. You are one of a kind! A fine Christian man who is NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF THE CHRIST JESUS.

May our Lord bless you and 'that more abundantly'!

Sincerely, Blessings, Abishag

Hi Abishag, ((( Smiles )))

To be a bird in the sky looking down on creation..
As the world is being formed with beauty that abounds the senses..
How many different birds and flowers and trees and bees swarms this planet.
You know this planet is a special place designed for us to live.
What a perfect match with air and water and food and herbs..
Except they continue on to ruin the earth & destroy creation with their pollution and corruption and the kings/rulers do plot.
Of course you know I don't believe in reincarnation.
I would hate to come back as a bird wouldn't be fun at all..
Or a cow though not all reincarnationists believe they will.
But not reincarnation but rejuvenation and thats what I look forward too..
Who wants to keep comeing back to this mess of pollution, war, violence, mercury, chemtrails, corruption, sickness, pain and death ..
That would be a punishment to me.
It's bad enough on this planet right now.
I look forward to the rejuvenation..
Not reincarnation but a New Heavens and a New Earth.
But not the birds but the sons of God.
Thats who got the birds eye view.
What a beautiful sight indeed.

Hello Lynn,

Your words are my thoughts exactly. Why would any intelligent, sane person want to come back to this destructive planet is beyond my comprehension! And especially to think you "could be" re-incarnated into some animal or insane person is absolutely ridiculous!

Let's see what the great Evangelist/ Billy Graham, has said regarding this:

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began." Titus 1:2

---LIFE is a glorious opportunity, if it is used to condition us for eternity. If we fail in this, though we succeed in everything else, our life will have been a failure. There is no escape for the man who squanders his opportunity to "prepare to meet God."

Our lives are also immortal. God made man different from the other creatures. He made him in His own image, a living soul. When this body dies and our earthly existence is terminated, the soul lives on forever.

One thousand years from this day, you will be more alive than you are at this moment. The Bible teaches that life does not end at the cemetery. There is a future life with God for those who put their trust in His Son, Jesus Christ.

There is also a real hell. When we die, our spirit will live on, in either Heaven or Hell.

It cost God the priceless blood of His only Son to get us sinners to heaven. By tasting death for every man, Jesus took over our penalty as He erased our guilt. Now God can forgive.

"These things have I written unto you that believe...that ye may know that ye have eternal life.." 1 John 5:13

"...willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8

Sometimes we get a little tired of the burdens of life, but it is exhilarating to know that Jesus Christ will meet us at the end of life's journey. The joy of being with Him forever is beyond the ability of any writer to describe."

Prayer: 'To think You will be waiting for me at the end of this earthly journey! Oh Lord Jesus, I am filled with unspeakable joy!'

Billy Graham
Day by Day

This sort of thing needs to go in the Bible thread unless you're going to write something about creativity, thanks.

Creativity . . . well let's have some more opinions here on this. I'll share mine.

The consciousness of the universe shapes physical reality. For what end I do not know, though I like the idea that ALL was created in order for that consciousness to experience itself. For if there is only one, and one is all, then there is nothing to show "the all" what it is and is not. Therefore physical reality came into being, and splinters of the universal consciousness, and yin/yang: the world of opposites. We are here ourselves to have that experience, and to evolve in love and knowledge of ourselves. When Jesus said, "whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me," he was speaking this truth: if we cause harm to people or to anything else, we are harming ourselves.

There is no physical hell; when we die we simply exist in another form, and come back to have another experience, until perhaps we achieve enlightenment. If we truly understand Jesus' words above, then the consequences happen in the here and now, when we do something harmful. Heaven is our remembrance of love and unity with all things.

Some ideas here have been inspired by Conversations with God, an interesting read.

You, Linda Lou, are WRONG! Just like Russ has been trying, relentlessly, to explain to you.

I will NOT read your post on "Conversations with God". I have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. I talk to Him all the time, and He speaks to me through His Word, the Holy Bible. Jesus Christ is God! He said, "I and the Father are one."

Jesus talked more about hell than He did about heaven. You don't understand what He is saying, because you, Linda Lou, have NOT been 'born again'.

I started this Post on "Creativity", I do NOT need your instructions on what I should or should NOT type.

I am sure that Russ or a Moderator will contact me in the event I overstep 'the rules'.

Right now, I follow the rules of the Sovereign Lord Jesus Christ!
Daniel Webster was a fine Christian man. He penned the definition of 'SIN' thusly, (Webster's New World Dictionary)

Sin= The breaking of religious law or a moral principle, esp. through a willful act.

On the authority of God's Word, you, Linda Lou, are living in "SIN".

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

You are totally 'OFF BASE'! You can't interpret God's Word correctly because YOU DO NOT KNOW GOD!

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4

Heaven is a REAL PLACE and Hell is a REAL PLACE! It's not some hum-drum thoughts or rembrances! Read it for yourself. IN THE BIBLE!

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ALL UNGODLINESS and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS of men, who hold the truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS:
Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:18-20

Abishag
JESUS IS LORD!

I know what you believe, Abishag. I also know that you don't agree with my beliefs. And I don't agree with yours, but I won't go into that because fortunately we each are free to believe as we choose. This being the case, I thought I would add my two cents. A little tip for you: you might "convert" more people if you cultivated some peace and respect, rather than anger and condescension. IMO you are covering over some kind of fear, and it's uncomfortable when people don't validate your particular beliefs because for you they are the one great shield you use and you don't want to feel like it's being attacked. Just some friendly psychological advice; I won't mention it again.