News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

HI everyone. I guess it's been a few years since I last post on here and sadly I am not any better. Finally I now know I have POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) and adrenal insuffiency, so that explains a lot of the symptoms I was getting. However, I still think mercury poisoning is the root cause for both of these issues.

I've had lots of weird issues in the past few years and have been to more doctors with no end in sight.

I took a very long break from chelation because of the horrific side effects I get from it. Well last month or so I started back up and here I am questioning why the heck I decided to stir up these metals again. Am I completely insane? lol The terrible headaches, unexplained rashes and general feeling of crud is back. My neutrophils are probably low again and eosinophils high, but I haven't had my blood checked yet to confirm.

I'm starting to get real discouraged by Dr. Cutler's protocol as it's done nothing for me. All it does is make me feel so much worse. I'm no better on or off round and I'm wondering how all of you are doing? I hope some of you are better because if not, that is quite discouraging.

Perhaps I should try some oral DMPS? I'm thinking DMSA is not working for me.

I'm really sorry it's not working out .

What are you on? (ALA and DMSA together? Or one of them?). What dosage and what timing?

Some people have to take a smaller dose and take it even more often to control side effects. Some may simply react badly to one or both chelators regardless of what dose/timing they use.

It is also important to support your body during chelation with appropriate supplements and diet.

It may well be the DMSA itself. Oral DMPS maybe a better and more tolerable option. But I'd still be interested in the dosage you're on and the timing.

I'm sorry birdlady.

have u tried ala instead of dmsa? have u tried lowering doses? or chelating with ala/dmsa combo with different ratio of ala:dmsa?

From my experience his protocole does work and move things forward but a lot of people will go through *hell* just doing it.

unfortunetely there's no better way to get the metals out then AC chelation.

I don't want to come off as being rude, but none of you are better from what I've read in your post history. Why are you defending something that hasn't done much for you? If you are "better", then exactly how are you better? Are you working now? Living a normal life? No complaints on a daily basis? That's the type of recovery I am looking for and I just don't see it happening on Dr. Cutler's protocol.

I've gone back to the frequent dose chelation yahoo group and it's all the same people with various ailments still troubling them. This doesn't really give me much hope to be quite honest.

As far as dosage goes, I am taking 25mg of DMSA every 2 hours and then every 3 hours at night to get some rest. Dosing more frequently is better for me than less frequent (every 4 hours). The headaches aren't nearly as bad when I dose it every 2 hours. I think this is round 5 or so since starting up again, but I had done about 10 rounds in late 2008. All together about 10 rounds have been done on 25mg of DMSA and the same thing always happens to me. My neutrophils get low (below lab range) and I start to get rashes all over my body which are unbearable.

I tried some ALA one round, but read a scary study about it redistributing metals into organs, so I haven't used it again. The more I dig into Cutler's protocol, then more I question it. I used to be a huge supporter of him, but since no one is getting healthy, it's clearly not working as intended. I'm about ready to abandon it and find other ways. It shouldn't take 6 years of chelation to get "better". I think 1-2 years is more than enough time to know if a chelation protocol is working.

Has anyone on the forum fully recovered since I stopped posting a few years ago?

Birdlady, my issues go alot further than mercury. I've explained that in the past. I'm not on this forum much at all now, but I check in from time to time and see if I can be of any help. But my issues run deeper than mercury, but I know I still have mercury there somewhere.

My mercury poisoning was indeed being healed back in the day from Cutler's protocol. In fact, it was only when I started using his then I began to really notice changes happening.

I was hit badly later on after an infection from some bacteria or virus (that has never gone) and then got much worse later after surgical dental work (tooth extraction), that something went badly wrong and my body was no longer responding to detoxification efforts and I have been struggling since. Anwers are not easy or clear and chelation has become either difficult, or simply doesn't yield much for me these days.

I have already posted Cutler testimonies on this forum. I'd suggest typing it into the search box. There are people who get well and they simply move on. Others can have other complications and sometimes crossing with mercury, and so they are the ones you see linger. These are the more complicated cases and possibly are those that have been so badly and long termly poisoned, that it's now caused other problems in the body.

It really is different for each person. I have tried ALA, but don't seem to get any real responses. The only problem I have with it, is my parasitic infection that I'm struggling with just gets worse (as it does anytime I take any supplement at all). But apart from that? Even high dose ALA doesn't seem to do much. Yet once upon a time, when I responded well to detox, I was heavily detoxing mercury and reacting strongly to chelation. Which is why Cutler's worked so well because it did at least cut down "some" of the redistribution and got more mercury out of me.

It seems to me that many people report feeling worse while on chelation and use that as validation that chelation is working...however they never ultimately get better.

I've read some of the Cutler testimonials and of the few out there I admit there are a couple of compelling ones but many use words like "hope" about how they're going to be better in the future. I've found some of these people on Curezone etc. and they are still horribly ill.

For the thousands of people who do the protocol, there are at best a handful of testimonials that I've seen. The same could be said for most protocols out there. I would feel a lot better hearing from more people who are well. Even looking through the archives on a place like onibasu Cutler continuously refers to the success of ALA etc. but I can't find these people who are getting better.

I found a post from about 4 years back on a Yahoo group about a doctor who had supposedly "cured hundreds" on Cutler's protocol so I went to his website and it said they treat with DMPS IV. -_-

I'm not saying Cutler is bad or wrong...simply that for the tens of thousands of people doing this there are what, MAYBE ten testimonials? Where's all these huge successes? I find people reporting they are on their 3rd or 4th or even 5th (!) year of chelation with minimal or no improvement.

I've already found a few people online who did Cutler's protocol for YEARS but then ultimately decided to do another treatment with a doc and then finally had improvement.

Most of the people in the frequent dose Yahoo group are quick to point out other "bad" protocols when they don't work, but if someone complains that Cutler's isn't working they are attacked as somehow doing it wrong.

As I say, bad doctors blame the patient, good doctors blame the treatment.

There are probably multiple treatment options that work, I would just like to see more positive results from everyone pushing Cutler's stuff (not necessarily on this forum) over the other options.

Yes, I do know what you're saying. I did much experimentation on myself to find out what worked for me. I can only endorse cutler's protocol based upon my own personal experience and how it has helped others (sunshine the member on this forum being one who has kindly come back and shared his positive experience with Cutler's protocol). Not all come back.

There are those who have found Cutler's the way to go. Others have gone another way and found it better for them. Really, it's about listening to our bodies. The only reason I'd personally recommend Cutler is because it seems to make alot of sense and did reduce the horrific effects I was getting by other means of trying to detox mercury. I had doctors and a dentist become highly frustrated with me because I could not tolerate THEIR protocol due to how it mobilised so much metal. I could only finally handle Cutler's. I was (amd am) a very senstiive individual in respect to metals and detox because my detox pathways are unbalanced, so any intake of toxins or mobilisation can cause dramatic and long lasting effects. Cutlers reduced those reactions, yet still was able to help me remove mercury.

I'm not pushing Cutler's protocol for any ulterior motive, other than the reading and experience I've had. I have found that people often move on and away once they get improvements, so it's not overly likely all of even many will come back and type up a testimony. Some do, thank goodness. But you will often find that if someone gets a bad reaction, they'll certainly talk about it.



Tens of thousands? I would not know how many have or are using Cutler's protocol and have used it faithfully. It's only in recent years it's become more known. Firstly how many people even realise they maybe mercury toxic? How many of those are seeking treatment for it and of those, how many would be using Cutler's protocol? It may not be nearly as much as you might think. I took years before I figured out that some of my health problems were mercury caused and that was only after luckily discovering an article on mercury poisoning and recognising the symptoms. Other people may not be so lucky at finding out. Even then, I spent a long time on different products and protocols before I finally stumbled on Cutler's and that was only after much searching on the internet. Even my doctor didn't know about his until I told her about it.

Do you know of a protocol that has thousands of people using it and a great track record of many good testimonies behind it? Because I don't. This is honestly as close as I've gotten to considering a protocol a pretty good bet.

I've found some and it has not been added to as I have not been actively seeking them out. But perhaps if someone does more investigation, they will find more.

http://orbisvitae.com/ubbthreads/ub...ds=testimonies&Search=true#Post32299

There are people who have gotten better and moved on. New people come and go all the time. It's ongoing, so I would not assume because there are a few stubborn cases, that this means the protocol doesn't work. There are often more problems then mercury at work in such an individual. Or the mercury can cause long standing issues after the long term poisoning. It is not such an easy thing to cure. Detoxification takes a very long time if a person has been poisoned for a long time. No matter how one goes about it. I would try to force myself into short cuts and put up with detox symptoms that were extreme, but often I would crash and be ill for a long time after, which then slowed me down. Mercury detoxification often takes years, rather than months. I did many different types and I was still detoxing a few years later in spite of how much progress I made and it was not just Cutler's that I had used. So it's definitely not a quick fix or an easy one and many other areas of health have to be attended to during and after detox.

I agree with that last part fully! Some will do well on it, others might get horrible side effects and then I agree they should stop it and find another method! Thing is it's not always so simple, it could be a ton of things! Candida or Parasites etc., depends really on the person and what they should tolerate. Do a three day test, if you get horrible effects all three days stop it and try it again at a lower dosage later in the week, if you still feel horrible then I would say it's not for you and maybe go a simple more mild approach to the healing.


I used to tolerate alot of things well from Chlorella to Garlic etc., now forget it! I guess I lost the enzyme to digest it properly or stirred up some more! Thing is I used it for years after the tooth was out and did fine, why not now? I ca't detox like I used to, maybe elimination organs or something is not up to par? Lord knows.


Bex as far as this bacterial infection you have I would suggest an Olive Leaf book by Morton Walker! Read on it and all it does, that might help. I also might suggest an Indian Herb named Neem which is the village pharmacy as they call it, for all kinds of infections.


Good luck, Sean.

BTW as far as Chelation goes I would not try it and wonder as well who actually got better! I see Chelation threads in here experiences, most quit posting in it later and no clue what happened, no follow up as I got better and so on at ALL in here or Curezone.

I am not saying it's wrong or Cutler is wrong and it will not work for some, but more often on the net I see no success stories really and just am not disciplened enough to take something every 4 hours or so. I will pass on Chelation, but if someone has done it and got well please tell me how it worked for them and their story and I will listen.


Sean.

Sean, I have tried Olive leaf and other agents, but not with success. I am honestly not certain of what I'm dealing with exactly, but I know it's combo of factors. Right now it's further complicated by a suspected parasite infection. So I'm on permanent parasite cleanse (with cloves/green walnut etc) to control the condition more. I cannot go off it without getting extremely sick. So it's doing "something", but not actually outright killing it off. I'm trying to save for more extensive parasite testing. But so often people get false negatives, so alot of money can be spent for nothing. But it's that bad that I really want to try. That way, if it's discovered and they know what kind of parasite it is, they can treat it with specific meds that should wipe it out.

Cutler's chelation protocol - sunshine is at least one who has posted in here on his success with Cutler's protocol and Im pretty sure you've been involved in a few of the threads he's been on, so you'd know this. Please read the link I put up with others positive results from Cutler's protocol in my post above.

It's just a great pity others don't add to the testimonies as they improve, because it would further encourage people to chelate.

Bex, you're not supposed to go on using Hulda's parasite cleanse continuously, you're supposed to take a break in between.

Sean, what about cooked or fried garlic?
I can't handle raw garlic anymore either, but fresh garlic in food that is "heated to death" is ok.

Birdlady, yes there is a way...
For me it's lots of steam saunas, about 2hr sessions, 10 minutes in, and 10 minutes cold showers out, in intervals. I do this about once every 20 days.

Also hot showers at home every other day or so, with no soap whatsoever, ended with a cold shower. My armpits don't even smell anymore, and i use no deodorant either. Smells like a baby's armpits.

I also go about squatting when i use the toilet, and i have rid myself of constipation totally. I'm never bloated anymore unless when i cheat on my diet and eat unhealthy. Feels as light in my body as a child after squatting.

Nail fungus is well on it's way towards history also, and psoriasis is steadily going away.

So what do i do more, i stay away from most food additives, i grind my own meat sometimes from pure beef, locally raised and slaughtered (halal).
Yes i eat a lot of local Halal meat, so i say, go for Kosher or Halal, rather Kosher, but i can't get that at where I am. Halal works just fine for me.

I use lots of onions in my cooking, also lots a leek, garlic, red mini chili ala Thai chili with seeds, i use the real turmeric root in my halal chicken soup, i use fennels, ginger, Maldon ocean salt, real basil and real oregano plants, lots of champignons, real dairy butter, wholefat milk (sadly pasteurized), tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, rice, celery roots in soups, i also eat raw deepsalted herring with raw onions and cold potatoes (boiled), and i drink a lot of Afghan Ceylon tea (green) with real locally bought unpasteurized honey in it that i buy from a beefarmer. I also got unprocessed cane sugar that i use now and then.
I eat bananas, and i make my own orange juice from fresh oranges with a squeeze of fresh lemon in it and drink very often.
I use as much fat (real butter) in my cooking as Elvis did, i eat as my grand grand grand parents probably did, but with a more exotic twist to it.
I also use real cinnamon sticks, not cassia i belive, they are thin, not thick walled.

I buy much of my food ingredients at local foreign supermarkets, cheaper, and better quality. Muslims and Jews don't eat filth!

So, this is what i do.
I still have one amalgam left, and some patches here and there that tastes awful now and then, but they will remain until i get even stronger.

What has gotten better... Everything!
I have less stuffes sinuses, no headaches, less aggressive psoriasis someplaces completely gone, fine white nails with only some yellow still, seldom do i have dark circles under my eyes anymore, i feel rested in the morning mostly, i fall asleep easily, my thoughts and concentration is way better, i'm more happy, i'm proud of my self and my health accomplishments, my stiff back is better but still somewhat stubborn, i don't quite react to weather changes as much anymore, my tinnitus is lesser, my hair is fuller, but also grayer (i take that as a good sign), no more blood in the stools, seldom a pressure on my chest anymore, i can relax now more often, i still suffer from compulsive thought patterns, but less than in the past, and yeah, my feet god unstiffened completely from using unsweetened cranberry juice and unsweetened locally made sour red cherry juice, alone.

All this and more i may have forgotten to tell about just now.
And i don't even touch a synthetic supplement.

I use a lot of broccoli and cauliflower in my cooking btw.

I see people on the board using supplements and beeing vegetarian, and not getting to be any much healthier.
Well go figure (Hal Huggins).

I'm purine aware btw, thats why i eat halal meats.
I make lots of soups the old way with meats and bones deep cooked.
I make my own chicken soup with real turmeric in it from unprocessed halal chicken.

Etc, etc, etc.

I have my fuel clean, i have my intestinal detox pathway completely working again, i have supported kidney function and less yellow bilrubin, i also drink lots of water (uncleaned water, but still water), i have my skin detox pathways working as well as they could work (sauna, soapless showers, etc), and.... ehm.. Yes. Thats about it.

And i'm going stronger every day, sometimes i take one step backwards in health, but then i soon take two steps forwards again.

My eyes are shiny bright white too, blood shot eyes, what is that?!
Less earwax too, btw. And less cracking sounds when twisting my head / neck.

Also i got a lump on the back of my neck that has shrinked a lot over the last year, almost completely gone now.

Summarized, i feel as healthy as a 10yr old, but still with some mercury issues.
Not much, but still some.

My only huge sin towards myself is the use of Swedish smokeless tobacco (Snus).
Not as bad as American smokeless.

I eat a lot of Asian food, out. Spicy food. And all my homecooked food is spicy to some degree from real chili peppers.

I use a lot of real salt.


So that's me, and i get better everyday, i'm stable, i'm way better than i were a year or two ago, and i'm happy.

Key is, real food from real ingredients (i cook for four hrs sometimes), squatting, and sauna, combined with some patience.

And then later, the rest of the amalgams will come out safely, pulled!

So Dana, i would reccomend that you go to a gym or a public pool to use their steam sauna, dirt cheap, and also that you read up on the squatting thread on this board. I almost never redistribute much or anything from sauna usage anymore.

What i find a mystery with my self is that my armpits don't smell anything anymore, and i still have some minor mercury issues like a stubborn stiff back, but a lesser stiff back. I must be very clean inside due to the lack of armpit smell, but still not clean enough to be a 100% cured yet, but i will get there, i'm well underway!

Hope all this encourages you!
Cheers!

Yeah, i almost forgot to tell, my circadian rhythm is way better! Near "normal".
Am more up and about during days than nights now.

For those of you that are religious... on some days when nothing works much no mater what you do... A prayer to Jesus always works, also beliving in your every cell's ability to heal it self in your body as a collective. Speaking with your cells and your body the same way you speak with God, encourage your body to heal just now, where you want to prioritize healing. This works for me, but sometimes i works less, but then i turn to God, in any case, Jesus never fails for me when i ask!

So the universal key to regained health and a good life is faith!
All the rest is for the most part, support, but still more than that.

You do what is humanly possible, God will do the rest if you let him.
Just remember that God has many faces, not just one.

Have faith in the face of God that fits with you, and you will be helped much.
I pray to Jesus, but i also thanks Allah for the Halal food that my Muslim brothers give me.

No judging thankyou. Religious freedom for all.
But i can testify that Jesus comes thru for me when i ask him.

Good luck.

This was not to promote any kind of divine faith, but i felt it important to include the most important key to healing as i see it.

The missing ingredient to a healthy and restored body and a better life thereof.
Without this ingredient i belive from experience that healing is much harder.

So, some kind of faith helps.
Whetter it is merely positive thinking or really God that is helping, i leave up to the reader to make his or hers mind on.

I belive it's both.

That is all i have to say on restored health and life for now.
All of this is my path (food, squat, sauna, etc + faith), and it works for me.

I was a wreck about two years ago after my two amalgam drillouts, today, i'm mostly fine.

And yes, no more visible or felt intestinal parasites!, more energy in general.

I get a mild Herxheimer reaction to turmeric in the form of a mild headache that goes away after just half an hour btw.

I also got some licorice root herbal tea in the form of licorice stick like matches, but i don't dare to use that yet, as my gf got a bad headache from it once.

And i hardly ever eat any bread.
And i threw away my microwave owen as that mode of heating and irradiating food is not safe. I also for the most part avoid ordinary dried kitchen spices, i only use the real stuff, and my food is tastier and more medicinal that way too.

Btw, if my gf eats ordinary sugar, her candida issues flares up, but not if she eat raw cane sugar or raw honey.

There are so many candida fantatics that belives all forms of sugar is bad, but that is not true for us. Unprocessed cane sugar and raw unprocessed honey doesn't feed the candida! Atleast that is so for us.

One more thing, there are also ancient food laws in the Bible, not just in the Torah or in the Quran, however most people don't know about them in the Bible, so they don't follow them. The food laws is very similar to each others!

Thats food for though.

Raw organic eggs from local farmers is good stuff too, as supermarket eggs tastes electronics when eaten raw. Lots of good proteins and sulfur, also lots of good fat in what i eat in general.

I also breath more easily, lesser whopping coughs, and no more bronchitis.
There are probably lots of good changes that i am still forgetting to mention, but you can see that i'm better in many ways, and how.

The high sulfur route may not work for everyone as some people don't seem to handle it well, but i bet you that the all natural food route is for everyone in contrast to the supplement and chemical route.

My body is working again, and toxins go out on a daily basis now, steady but sure.

The skin is an underestimated detox organ, the largest one!
And too few people has got a working intestinal system.

I changed "lifestyle", and raised my awareness and knowledge on many things, that's why I am where I am today!

I think if this was a highly successful chelation protocol as people claim or HOPE it to be, that there would be more success stories... When you are sick for years and finally get better, most people WOULD post about it. Bex you don't agree with this and that is fine. We can agree to disagree. In this day and age, anyone can make a blog and talk about what they've done to get healthy. There are some blogs out there that suggest they are "better" and I will be contacting some of these authors to see how much they suffered prior to chelating. Most of the stories I have seen, the people did not have many amalgams and did not suffer for years. I want to hear from people who were either bedridden or unable to work and who got better. If you still can't work due to daily health complaints, then you are NOT better. Period.

I cannot use a sauna and cannot even get hot showers without severe reactions that would send me to the ER, so that's not an option. My body cannot regulate temperature which goes along with my POTS.

The most common thing I see on these chelation forums is someone proclaiming they are so much better and then a week later they have countless posts talking about how they are feeling sick. Well obviously you are NOT better... Those people are included in these so called success stories and it's a lie.

Birdlady, I am working. So no, I'm not bedridden.

Please do not confuse my condition now with a failure of Cutler's protocol. I've already explained that it was to do with later infection and extraction dental work which caused me to crash and has disabled me from responding to chelation properly ever since. And this includes ANY detox efforts. When prior to this, I was slowly recovering well and a big part of that was with Cutler's protocol. So you are wrong about me.

There ARE more success stories. One just has to do a little research to find them. I have already provided some testimonies here, there were more on this forum that spoke about the positive results from Cutler's protocol. But here are more:

Adults/children/individuals/groups (one by a doctor doing updates on 152 patients that she used Cutler's protocol on).

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Progress_reports

If these are not enough for you then so be it. I hope you may find what you're looking for elsewhere, something that may suit you better.

It is known that mercury detoxification is a roller coaster ride of symptoms, rather than a nice gradual up hill climb to improvements. That is why people feel better and worse (up and down) along the way.

Who are these liars you speak of?

You may find you have trouble no matter which way you go because of being so heavily poisoned and having difficulty with your elimination pathways/systems. Mercury detox for me was sheer torment and I was at a loss, but I had to persist somehow to try and get the metals out. I did eventually gain relief, but it is slow and difficult and usually requires dietry/supplementary intervention to help make things more beable and effective. Cleanses can help also.

Best wishes on finding the protocol and chelators that work for you. Cutler may just not be the way to go for you. Let us know how you get on.

I'm well aware of this Rom. But taking a break when I first started the parasite cleanse was the worst thing I ever did. It came back worse than ever and then the cleanse no longer had the same impact. So I am dealing with a more complicated and difficult infection that I believe requires more extensive treatment.

Bex have you tried Diatomaceous Earth? That is great for parasites, read up on it. I am sure some have done better chelating, but most I see are not cured nor doing better on boards, just what I see.

I will not be chelating anytime soon, I would rather get healthy myself with diet and some spices and then try to get metals out, until I get stronger it's a no go.

Hello Birdlady. I read your blog last year. Imo at least part of your problem is parasites. Parasites can put such a stress on your body that you won't tolerate chelation. I suggest that you do a one month parasite cleanse with wormwood/black walnut green hull exreact, and cloves. The cheapest decent cleanse I found is Kroeger Wormwood Combination. On the net it is around $6 a bottle. 2 bottles are needed for a one month cleanse. Some here like Humaworm, but I think Humaworm is now $40 for a one month cleanse.

I do much better on a high sulphur diet with plenty of eggs, broccoli, horseradish, garlic, etc. I also take msm supplements.
I am still not well, however now I can finally chelate at high doses, 200mg ALA+100 mg DMSA every 3 hours. I had 25 mercury fillings, most of them for over 20 years!


Are you sensitive to perfumes and diesel fumes? If so, a molybdenum supplement might be a great help. I guess you can try 500 mcg a day(the least expensive molybdenum I found is the 1,000 mcg Thorne capsules, at around $6 for 60). If your body is deficient in sulphur, chelating agents might not even chelate well, as they might be broken down by the body as a sourcce of sulphur.

This web page lists some supplements you may want to add.
It also lists some blood tests you might want to have done if you need to prove your illness.

http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html

Two things that help me when I am feeling horrible are licorice root tea,and Triple Leaf Detox Tea. Those with high blood pressure should not take licorice root. I also think that magnesium malate has been a great help.

http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-licorice-root.html

I also put plenty of garlic and curry powder as well as some ground cloves in my food each day. Some say to avoid cilantro/coriander, but imo I think a bit a time such as what is in curry powder is okay. The though is that cilantro/coriander can mobilize mercury but might not excrete it. When I was eating large amounts of cilantro, I would only do this during chelation rounds.

I am also taking 25 mg a day of iodine. I was taking 50 mg a day for a while last year but stopped. I started getting low body temperatures again, and started gaining weight, so I am convinced that I need the iodine. I guess 25 mg a day may be enough though. Iodine is also antifungal. It also helps detoxify heavy metals.

http://www.iodine4health.com/

That's too bad.
I would cry in a continous desperate mad spell if i were unable to sauna.
I'm really sorry to hear that you can't use heat for detox.

What about clay then? Bentonite?!
Or find a way to fix the POTS first?

I feel for you not beeing able to sauna, i do!
To everyone else that CAN sauna and still haven't tried, your loss! to say it blunt.

I wish you could tolerate heat Birdlady, but what good is an empty wish like that.
I'm lucky!

You must still be very toxic, or atleast in the places where heart function and heat regulation is located centrally in your body. I don't know.

You aren't by change vegetarian are you?

I have been bothered by mercury since my first amalgam at the age of 8yrs old.
School and education, also many jobs were destroyed because of it.
I were fatigued most of the time, only once twice a year had i enough energy to function somewhat normally. This was during my teen years.

Today, i'm out of bed in the morning in no time, like a rabbit jumping out of bed. My eyes are wide open and shiny, not constantly half shut and tired anymore.

So if you wanted a success story, here it is.
However, my journey is still far from over, my detox journey is over when i say it is.
It is over when i feel like an athlete, like a superhuman, like all humans are supposed to feel like without any exercise efforts!

That is my standards, and what i reach for.
I'm cured in full when i am there as described, and i will get there!

Until then, i'm able to function well already and enjoy life with only small challanges still.

What about IR saunas for you? Is that too dangerous in your condition also?
I don't dare try IR saunas because i'm afraid to stir up too much at one time, also i don't want to stir up deep stored toxins at first.

However, IR saunas are at lower temperatures, but as i said, penetrates deeper.

Do you squat btw?
That is a number one sure path to ridding your body of toxins in general!

I'm pretty sure, that had i not started squatting, i would still be loaded up to my throat in toxins.

I would start squatting if i were you to take the edge of your stored toxins, and then maybe after some time, your POTS will decrease or vanish after a year or so.

Then you could maybe continue to the next level with heat or chelators if you wanted to. Just a thought.

What squatting has done for me in general is undescribable!
Where would i be without it.... I don't even dare speculate.

Good luck finding your path again, I wish you to succeed!

Also, i don't know about all this pill popping that some values so much.

Take apart nature, and put it together again in an unnatural way again (extracts), and you ask for trouble!

Also think about the fillers in the tablets or pills.
Also consider who manufactures most of them, if not all (big pharma, same ones).

Think about natural enzymes and........... Those who wanna see these point see's them on their own. Most of you already know this.

I infact get headaches from supplements so i don't touch even one!

I don't eat any kind of pills in any circumstance, not even an ibuprofen or the likes. If i wanted salicylate i would simply cook my some ginger root tea from the real root, but i don't even do that for headaches, i drink lots of water instead!

Maybe multiple supplements in carefully weighed and balanced doses is good for some, but i would rather eat "5 broccolies" in a row than eat it's vitamin / mineral counterpart in pills!

But thats me!

What is the real reason for eating supplements instead of real food?
Vegetarianism?

It can't be superdoses, because, what superdoses? superdoses of what? extracts???! That does almost no good, only complete natural molecules in natural ratios does the body completely good, not an extract!

I say, let the body handle mineral proportions and regulations (balance), the body is far better in doing that than it's personality seat (soul / brain).

But ok, eat for instance ascorbin acid all you want, but know that it is not vitamine C, it's only part of it, 1/3 to be exact (i.e an extract).

Do that, and i'll squeeze my oranges to drink.

If God / Nature wanted us to eat pills, he / it would provide trees with pills growing on them!

Thats not the case.

Ofcourse, if one wants to for instance get curcumin (turmeric), and can't buy the real root locally, then surely curcumin powder is better than nothing, but, I say, everything that can be done naturally, should be done naturally, no excuse!

Always try the best first, then settle for the next best thing, i.e the "supplement" for the real thing!

Never go for a replacement when you have the original in reach!

That's my thoughts on supplements.
No offence, only a cold shower of thought for food, or food for thought.

Also, think about Hal Huggins and vegetarianism or veganism.

I eat my meat, but to avoid purines i eat Halal!


Just had to share this, harsh written yes, but i wanted to say what was on my mind!

My ideology is Nature!

Rom posted:
[You do what is humanly possible, God will do the rest if you let him.
Just remember that God has many faces????, not just one.
Have faith in the face of God that fits with you, and you will be helped much.
I pray to Jesus, but i also thanks Allah for the Halal food that my Muslim brothers give me.]?????

No judging thankyou. Religious freedom for all.
But i can testify that Jesus comes thru for me when i ask him.

Good luck. [/quote]
-----------------
Excuse me, but I was directed to this post. So, please KNOW that I AM NOT 'Religious'. There are a lot of 'religions' in this fallen world, Muslims being in that category!

I am a follower of the Sovereign One, Jesus the Christ.

What was so bad about [the Pharisees'] hypocrisy?...They were using God and the things of God as a means to some other end.
"They do all their deeds to be noticed by men" (Matthew 23:5)...Better to ignore God altogether than to exploit him as a means to something else you value more highly.

Jesus, God, Allah??? They do not even belong in the same sentence! If you believe that 'God' is helping you, as an ambassador for Jesus the Christ, I can assure you that it can only be 'the god of this world'.

"Be sure your sins will find you out."
"God will not be mocked, whatsoever a man sews that will he also reap."

So, why am I over here? My Lord has instructed me to 'expose the deeds of darkness'. And you are not a true follower (representative) of the Holy One. God does NOT have many faces. Maybe 'your god' does. He said it, not me.

"Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else."

He is the Judge. Take it up with Him, if you get upset with this!

abishag, Mero fular an menen pre dero, KA MEROS PANI FUL!
Mul, dero beng!

That is all i have to say to you.
Now you have said yours, and i have said mine, finished!

"Also, i don't know about all this pill popping that some values so much."

Most of us are taking vitamin supplements, not phamaceuticals.
I use only high quality brands. I buy only vegetarian supplements.

"Take apart nature, and put it together again in an unnatural way again (extracts), and you ask for trouble!"

The only thing I have against liquid extracts is that most have plenty of alcohol.

"I infact get headaches from supplements so i don't touch even one!"

It depends which supplements you use. For example, one person told me they couldn't tolerate iron supplements as they gave stomach ache. They only used iron sulphate. I told her to use iron bisglycinate instead, which she tolerated without a problem.
She said that she can't tolerate vitamin c since it is too acidic. I told her to take cacium ascorbate or exter c which is buffered. I is important to choose the right supplements, even if they do cost more.

"I infact get headaches from supplements so i don't touch even one!"

Headaches from a supplement might be a good thing. Many get headaches from msm, especially if they increase the dosage too quickly. This is an indication that detoxification is taking place. It is a good idea to cut back on the dosage to eliminate side effects though, then gradually increase it as you are able to do so. Chelation for example sometimes gives me a headache, but I increase the dosages slowly, so the headaches usually aren't very severe. I think a mild headache while doing chelation is a sign that it is working.


"What is the real reason for eating supplements instead of real food?
Vegetarianism?"

There are vegetarian supplents. I take 3 grams a day of vitamin c. An orange has 50 mg of vitamin c. I would need to eat 60 oranges a day to get that. As a practical matter I don't eat any fruit since I have candida problems, but do eat plenty of broccoli which has vitamin c. It would take 10.3 pounds of broccoli a day though to get 3 grams of vitamin c. Some here take much more than 3 grams of vitamin c. Some take it to bowel tolerance, which could be 30 grams or more for those who are very sick. I don't recommend such high dosages though. I think 3 grams a day is enough. 30 grams a day might only be slightly more beneficial than 3 grams but at a much higher cost, and with the possible danger of kidney stones with such huge dosages long term.

"I say, let the body handle mineral proportions and regulations (balance), the body is far better in doing that than it's personality seat (soul / brain)."

The body can make decisions about how much of a mineral to absorb and much to excrete for many minerals, but if these aren't present in large enough amounts, then even if it could absorb 100% it still wouldn't be enough. Certain diseases cause excess mineral excretion.

"But ok, eat for instance ascorbin acid all you want, but know that it is not vitamine C, it's only part of it, 1/3 to be exact (i.e an extract)."

Huh????

"Do that, and i'll squeeze my oranges to drink. "

Are you squeezing 60 a day, and if so, all that fructose can't be healthy. Juicing broccoli instead of oranges seems like a better idea, especially if you have candida problems.

"If God / Nature wanted us to eat pills, he / it would provide trees with pills growing on them!"

That makes no sense to me. It is like saying if G-d wanted us to eat bread he would have had bread growing from the ground, and not wheat which needs to be processed in a several step process to make bread. Have you ever tried eating raw unprocessed wheat with the husk?

"Always try the best first, then settle for the next best thing, i.e the "supplement" for the real thing!"

The supplement is the real thing. Another term for supplements is
food concentrates. While some things like garlic lose plenty of their medicinal value by being processed and concentrated, that is not the case for many other things though. Juicing might be part of the answer for those who can't eat huge amounts of vegetables(such as 10.3 pounds of broccoli), as long as the juice is not high in sugar such as orange juice.

In my experience, sugar isn't the problem, but the wrong form of it often is.

Why are some people so keen on megadoses of isolated parts of nature?
"It's better to have one good bird in the hand, than 10 bad ones at the roof"

Raw and unprocessed is what i do, i usually don't eat much that has to be processed anymore, even at home. (including bread / yeast)

About juicing oranges vs broccoli, fine, both are goodies, why the scare about natural unmodified fructose in ratios that mother earth designed?
I know that many candida sufferers is supersensitive to all forms of sugar, yes, but, still.

About ascobic acid, haven't you been over to CureZone to read about "Why ascorbic acid is not vitamin C" ?

I know that for instance mercury poisoning "depletes" certain minerals, i only say that what's in food is enough if you eat right, and besides detox should be slow, and so therefore the doses should be sane and natural as well. (atleast that is what i belive to be safest and closest to nature)

So megadoses, i don't belive in megadoses of isolated esential oils, or isolated vitamin complexes. I belive in nature's symbiotic ratio of food's chemicals, and dosage that is controlled and limitied by the feeling of a full stomach after eating certain foods.

The body tells when it's had enough. Just listen to it.
I however agree, that some times we have to get out and push, to help, when the body is injured by toxins for instance, but giving it a push with isolated "food molecules", etc, instead of giving it nourishment in the form of a finished product (apple, meat, whatever), is a bad idea most of the time.
However as i say, there is exceptions, but i would prefer to stear clear of them.

Yeah i know about a possible Herxheimer reaction to supplements or whatever herb one eats.. I know, but it could also be a repoisoning headache.
I'm saying unclean supplements (low quality), contaminations, or just that the body doesn't like isolated minerals or isolated vitamin parts.
Could also just be a herxheimer, can't know without runing blood tests or so..

I get a mild herxheimer headache from real turmeric root.
But atleast that is the real deal, not a pill that i don't trust.

You know vitamins is not something isolated, there is in reality nothing that can be called vitamin, A, B, C, D, E, K, or whatever.... Vitamins work only in symbiosis with each others as a whole.
It's like a machine with many parts (A, B ,C D, etc), the machine only works if all the parts are present. That is also why isolated extract taken out of context (out of the machine) is nearly no good.

You can read all about this on curezone if you want to.
Ofcourse some times, the body has A, B, and C, but lackd D and K, etc.. whatever.. and then the body can use those new parts you have added, and put them into context to replenish a complete vitamin system in the body.
But i wouldn't bet on that. I would rather eat what nature has provided in it's whole and full completeness. no matter the "low" dose.

An example, you can't digest glutathione in an isolated form alone, but in food, or precursors in food, that is something else.
If glutathion is bound to other stuff in food naturally, we can take advantage of it, but alone, no way. at least orally.

Either how, I'm personally not too keen on those pills even if they were of the purest quality, even if i knew the manufacturer personally.

I would eat natural and be satisfied with natural doses of each vitamin / mineral elements in nature's mix ratios of them in one food, at any time.

I don't belive in pizzas, i belive in meat, and cheese, now wait, i don't belive in cheese either, i belive in milk. see my point?

Caveman diet! as much as possible.

Btw, i once scratched my head and asked myself the question, may vegetarianism be healthier? and i figured maybe it would be, but never converted.

Some time ago i came across Hal Huggins and his teachings, and now i belive him, that vegetarians and vegans can't be cured of mercury poisoning, because the lack of meat proteins, B vitamins and such. (B vitamins as a whole in meat, not isolated).

I'm eating fat and meats like Elvis, and i'm recovering.
There is a cure called the fat cure or something...
Lipophilic detox, whatever..

Liver, deodonum, gall / fat mix... will plant fats trigger a gall burst? i don't think so.

I'm observing (sorry) "pill poppers" not getting much better from mercury poisoning, also vegetarians and such groups.

I on the other hand observe people like myself going all natural, we have improvements, huge ones.

Maybe it's time to rethink some things, try another path than what has already been tried and failed?

Ofcourse, one solution may not work for everyone, but, nature harms less than processed stuff anytime.

I'm sorry maybe i preach to the wrong crowd, but natural is better than something formed by man, it is after all processed to some degree, those pills.

If one can't see the logic in that, then my words have been in vain.

NATURE!
Always!

Goyim / Buros can't be saved!

Rom,

If I could fix the POTS then I wouldn't be here. That's what I'm trying to do and I think mercury poisoning is causing the POTS. I went to Cleveland Clinic to get a proper diagnosis and miserably failed the Tilt Table test. My heart rate was 160 from simply standing up. POTS is my main symptom(s) that I suffer from on a daily basis. Those who do not suffer from POTS cannot imagine how terrible it is and how much it debilitates your life. During the winter I feel pretty much "cured", but as soon as it gets warm outside I'll be a mess again. Just sitting in a warm room gets my heart aggravated.

I've done tons of things over the years to get better and the only thing I haven't done much of is chelation. The only chelation I've done is following Cutler's protocol and as I've said many times, the jury is still out for me. I will check out a parasite cleanse, but I did one of those years ago with no effect on the POTS.

The only thing that really helps me are beta blockers, but long term use I start to get side effects. It decreases the blood circulation in my feet and I get chilblains on my toes. UGH! I have high norepinephrine levels in my body, which is why my heart rates elevate upon standing. I think mercury is causing this or creating an autoimmune response to my central nervous system.

Some of those progress reports are a joke. Have there been any follow ups to these "progress reports". I have found (as I said earlier) that a person will post they are doing better and then a week later complain about all of these horrible symptoms. I might try to find some of these people and see how they are doing now. Unless we are now saying that these symptoms aren't mercury toxicity, then they are not better. Bex, you say that your symptoms are now not mercury...I don't know if I believe that or not. How do you know? Did you test your urine while on round to see that you were excreting mercury or any other metals? Once I find something that works for me, I plan on chelating until no more metals come out in my urine/feces. That's the only way to know you really got it all out.

Another thing to consider is that those yahoo groups are moderated. Comments that are critical of the Cutler protocol don't even get approved by the moderators.

Edit: I've searched 2 emails/usernames from these so called success stories and they are NOT better. They are still posting on the yahoo group with issues. It is bull and the Cutler people suggesting these stories are "successes" is very misleading.

"why the scare about natural unmodified fructose in ratios that mother earth designed?"

The latest studies show that fructose is rough on the liver, especially in large sudden doses such as orange juice. The fiber in fruit slows down the fructose absorption, making eating fruit itself with all the fiber much safer to consume than fruit juice. Even so, fruit should be eaten in small quantities by those who are healthy, and high sugar fruit such as grapes, oranges, figs, dates, etc. should be avoided by all who have a candida problem. There is plenty of vitamin c and minerals in vegetables.

I'm not saying the Cutler protocol doesn't work, i don't know that as i have personally not tried it, but i belive those who say they have been helped by it.

But the Cutler followers have typicly defended everything that Cutler has said, as religous truth, the only truth.

That i don't agree on.

Take garlic and cilantro for instance. It works, but can harm also.
Depends on many things, such a blood type i guess, and what else individual complications of toxicity one has.

However, i'm not saying i'm completely cured yet, far from it, as my standards are high, but i'm near what most people are in health, and in some ways even healthier.

All that just from diet and lifestyle + faith.

The yahoo groups aren't the only places that are moderated.
We are writing on a religious biased moderated board just now.
And i have been banned from here before, injustly and ufairly!

No one is perfect, not even the great Russ that does so much good for so many people.

No board should be moderated, and no board should mix religion forums with other forums.

It must be allowed to speak religion and disagree without a war breaking out, and the leaders of that board takes side with the ones he favours.

A leader should be completely objective and unbiased, just and fair.
I was banned from here unjustly once.

I was called satan, and was suddenly unable to fight back at that person because i was the one that got banned, not the person calling another person satan.
That was just wrong!

I was not the one that should have been banned!

So don't belive for a second that this board has just moderating either.
There are bias here too, personal bias.

If something doesn't fit with the views of those in charge, people will get banned, or moderated.

I don't take crap from anyone, and i was unjustly banned, so i'm sharing it, until this post gets moderated away. Until then, enough people will have been informed of my unjust ban from here!

abishag, go eat filth you demon, you reap what you sew!
Ole.

Dana, good luck with improvements, and i wish you the best!

Besides, a christian pious person like abishag shouldn't call another human being, satan. That is the greatest sin of the Bible. And she doesn't see that herself.

For me it's ok to fight back calling her a demon, because i'm not pious to any religion, but she.... she is supposed to be pious to her religion, a religion that says it is the greatest sin to call another person ungodly and or satan.. yet she has done that sin more than once, towards me.

NOW WHO IS THE HIPPOCRATE!?!

Sean, i have missed you, and would like to have contact with you on facebook.
This may be my last post here.

I'we had enough of this religious trolling by abi and ctd, with support from the boards owner.

So be it, i will manage, i'm well on my way towards completely restored health, and don't need support anymore.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

I thought I was on the way to recovery midway in my amalgam replacement as I lost plenty of excess weight and was feeling much better. After a while though I started feeling much worse.
The time to get well may be related to how long someone was ill and how much toxic metals are in the body. Many who were mercury toxic from fillings also became toxic from other heavy metals as well, since the body was overwhelmed in trying to get the mercury out, and was therefore debilitated in its ability to remove even small amounts of other toxic metals that it could normally remove. Detoxification of heavy metals is done via sulphur compounds, both chelating agents, and the body's glutathione.

Those who fail the tilt table test probably are deficient in sodium. I noticed that I have lost the desire to eat salty foods, and that my diet contained less than 500 mg a day of sodium. Now I make sure to remember to put salt on my food. Those who have high blood pressure thould avoid adding salt to food. It seems like those who fail the tilt table test are likely to have bouts of low blood pressure. Failing the tilt table test is a marker or CFS, which is now believed to be due to mercury toxicity.

"Minerals often deficient related to thyroid fatigue include iodine, sea salt, selenium, magnesium, and zinc, along with the amino acid tyrosine and B vitamins."

"Some of the conditions found in people with CFS or FM or MCS include immune effects, energy metabolism problems, inflammation, adrenal fatigue, homocystein metabolism, fatigue, stress, brain neurotransmitter imbalances, leaky gut. (580,386a,etc.) In addition to metals detox, supplementation has been found clinically effective to deal with these conditions. Immune(ginseng, echineacea, EFAs, curcumin); energy metabolism(CoQ10, NADH, L-carnatine, magnesium) ; Adrenal fatigue(DHEA, licorice, sodium); Stress(glutamine, Adapton); neurotransmitters(tyrosine); homocysteine(B6,B12,folic acid, SAMe); inflammation(antioxidants: N-acetyl-cysteine, alpha lipoic acid), fatigue(ginseng, Mate), digestive support(digestive enzymes, probiotics)"

"Mercury from amalgam interferes with production of cytokines that activate macrophage and neutrophils, disabling early control of viruses and leading to enhanced infection(131,251). Mercury’s activation of inflammatory cytokines and Th2 helper immune cells suppresses the cytotoxic response of T-cells and natural killer immune cells that are the body’s main defense against viruses and such biological pathogens"

http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html


I have three conditions associated with mercury toxicity; chronic fatigue syndrome, multiple chemical sensitivity, and fibromyalgia.

Just a note to all: Rom was Ole and has been banned (again).

For me, Cutler's protocol (oral DMSA) helps me and actually makes me feel somewhat better for a few hours.

After my complete and total amalgam recovery, in 2005 all of my symptoms returned with chemtrails. Now that chemtrails are the cause of all of my health issues, it's virtually impossible to get better because I'm constantly breathing the metals in via the air. When the air clear (usually just for short periods) all of my symptoms disappear just as when my amalgams were removed.

This is why people are having a hard time recovering today: Chemtrails. It's like heavy metal exposure all over again.

For those interested, I have documented my advent from mercury to chemtrails in great detail at this address: http://herballure.com/mcs

birdlady good info by ray saarela (guy who f*cked himself up with dmps):

http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/GeorgesTests.html

description of tests :

http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/GeorgesTests.html

at the very minimum an organic acids test and liver detox profile will provide a wealth of information gl

Hmmmmm, (((( Smiles ))))

Just read the twisting of scriptures when it comes to Jesus/ the Holy Bible and... ((((( Smiles ))))
I'm not surprised now about the drama above though everybody expecially in a country that has more Christian's has the free will to believe what they want too believe in, right or wrong:
Thank Jesus followers for that! but..
That needed to be corrected as Jesus followers God's name is Jehovah or Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh (YHVH)or Yahweh the name for our God in relationship to Jesus and what about the diet first suggested in the scriptures of Jesus and the Old Testament that Jesus quotes from.
Isn't that something to be thankful for especially for someone who says they pray to Jesus?
And of course when a person brings the subject up first but anyway it all makes sense now that was kind of strange expecially that one sentence... Hmmmmmm..

lol @ roms posts lol

The POTS doctors all harp on increasing salt intake and I am soo sick of it.

Perhaps I should sum up all of the things I've tried over the past 2 years. Florinef, bio-idential aldosterone, DDAVP, hydrocortisone, metoprolol ER, high salt diet 6+ Grams daily, low salt diet, gluten free diet, candida diet and everything in between. The first tilt table test I failed, I was taking 0.2mg of florinef (2 tabs), 25mg of HC, DDAVP and also hooked up to a saline IV for an hour before the testing started and throughout the entire tilt test. My BP went up to 140/80 during the test with a HR of ~140. Once Nitroglycerin was administered, my HR hit almost 180! The second tilt table test, I was taking 20mg of HC (however I stress dosed for the procedure) and also on a small dose of florinef. I was off the beta blocker and all other medications. My HR at its highest was ~155 and my BP only began to dip at the end of the test. I have never fainted during these tests.

I am not deficient in salt or "dehydrated". Sorry for the rant but I'm sick of hearing the same nonsense over and over again on these natural forums. If putting some salt in water cured POTS, then thousands of people would not be suffering from it. Just take a half hour out of your day and look at how much people are suffering from this on the forums on Dinet. Telling me to add salt to my diet is insulting to me. Kind of like how some doctors tell me to "stand up slower".

I have had urinary organic acid/amino acids run with the NutrEval test. There was a lot of information/results from this test. I made a photobucket album you can find at this link, but you'll have to enter in the guest password: birdladyblog to gain access. The main points of interest was I showed no gut bacterial/fungus or yeast dysbiosis, no protein malabsorption and no issues with nitrogen balance. I did show problems with mitochondrial dysfunction, neurotransmitter imbalances (this is confirmed with plasma level readings too) as well as issues with some B vitamins. Even though the NutrEval test did not show gut dysbiosis, I still wonder what's going on in there...haha I think I digest food too fast, which admittedly isn't a common problem with POTS or CFS. It's almost always the other way around with people suffering from constipation. I eat certain foods in hopes to get constipated.

I really do not fit the "CFS" mould at all except for having POTS. If I did not have POTS I think I'd be healthy. I've had this for so long I'm not sure what it feels like to be able to stand up without the heart beating so fast or be able to walk outside during the summer.

I do not have the debilitating fatigue that most CFS users seem to have on a daily basis. In fact I have too much energy at times, which then leads me to burn out at other times. Most of my complaints are specifically related to the elevated heart rates I experience every time I stand up.

I agree that once you have mercury toxicity your body tends to hold onto other metals as well. I know that I had exposure to lead, so that is also a problem for me. However, the POTS symptoms started well before the lead exposure.

Even though I'm skeptical of the Cutler protocol, I started another round today. I don't feel anything yet which is good. We'll see how tomorrow goes.

I didn't suggest that extra salt will cure you, only that extra salt helps me, and that it might help you. How is your weight doing, too low, too high, or normal? Is your temperature usually below normal, at normal, or a bit high?

Other causes of CFS besides heavy metals are pesticide toxicities.

My temperature fluctuates basically according to the room temp. If it's hot, my temp is high. If it's cool, it is low normal.

I don't put much stock into my temps because my body does not regulate it properly at all.

POTS is not CFS and CFS is not exclusively POTS. People can have both of those problems, but having one does not mean you have the other.

"I tried some ALA one round, but read a scary study about it redistributing metals into organs, so I haven't used it again."

Taking ALA without DMSA can cause severe side effects. Taking ALA with DMSA gives much fewer side effects. In any event, I suggest that you first get to tolerate DMSA alone for several weeks before adding ALA. DMSA will not chelate mercury from the brain. ALA is needed for that. Finishing a round of ALA+DMSA with a few doses of DMSA alone will help minimize redistribution.

Perhaps you could try taking the DMSA every 4 hours on an empty stomach with 8 ounces of water. Are you taking molybdenum supplements? Imo those are very helpful for those who are sensitive to aldehydes(perfumes, diesel fumes, etc.).

When I was running low body temperatures, I took 50 mg a day of iodine. After around 2 months of that, the low temperatures stopped and I stopped taking the iodine.

Do you get a bad reaction after eating eggs or broccoli? If so, your body might be impaired in its ability to process sulphur compounds. If you get a strong reaction after eating garlic but no after eggs, broccoli, or or high sulphur foods, then you might have a problem with parasites, candida, or bacterial overgrowth in your digestive system.

Sulphur is needed for detoxification of heavy metals. The glutathione your body produces contains sulphur, and all chelation agents have sulphur.

DMSA does not remove mercury from the brain and nervous system. cilantro may do that. People are afraid of cilantro as it might mobilize mercury without excreting much of it, however I think cilanto should be safe enough to eat in reasonable quantities while someone is in the middle of a chelation round using a decent sized dosage of DMSA.

Mercury may become lodged in the iodine binding sites of the thyroid. High doses of iodine(50 mg a day?) may be helpful to dislodge this mercury.

selenium supplements are essential for those who are mercury toxic. Selenium binds with mercury in the body making the selenium unavailable. Selenium is needed for the enzyme that converts T4 to the active T3. Be careful about taking too much selenium though.

I cannot take iodine. Last time I tried that it caused some type of autoimmune response in my body and my hair fell out. I'm pretty sure I posted pics of it a few years ago when it happened and I refuse to take it ever again.

I think you might have misunderstood when I said I took ALA one round and then stopped it. I was on DMSA and then added in ALA to see if it would do anything. When I read a study that it can in fact put mercury into your organs, that's when I decided to stop for the time being until I find out more information about it.

There was a study done on rats (I believe) where mercury was put into organs after taking ALA that was not there beforehand.

Thanks for your posts but I am really looking for something different than the Cutler crap just repeated over and over again. I know most of it because my blog used to be dedicated to his protocol.

Birdlady, I am glad you brought this subject up. I too need to know that the protocol gets people to health as it's hell to go through it. I want my life back to a working stage. I am agoraphobic and when I am taking a round I am sooooo much worse.

"I cannot take iodine. Last time I tried that it caused some type of autoimmune response in my body and my hair fell out. I'm pretty sure I posted pics of it a few years ago when it happened and I refuse to take it ever again. '

That sounds like an unusual reaction to iodine. I have not heard that happening to anyone else. Some people get a die off reaction when taking iodine, as iodine is very antifungal and will kill plenty of candida.

Did you take an unusual form of iodine? I assume the iodine you took was not radioaction. I took Source Naturals Potassium Iodide tablets. Each tablet is 37.5 mg, which equals approx 25 mg of iodine.

I was curious so I Googled iodine hair loss, and I received several results that stated that iodine helps prevent hair loss!

I still say that many benefit greatly from a parasite cleanse. Many find chelation much easier to tolerate after a parasite clense. I guess if their body is quite toxic from parasites, the extra burden of chelation becomes very uncomfortable. Many feel much better after a parasite clense even if they see no evidence of parasites. Many parasites are microscopic. I can tolerate chelation much better now that I am on a high sulphur diet(plenty of eggs, broccoli, garlic, horseradish, etc.)

Gawd, how many times did my doctor say the same thing, 'that's an unusal reaction'. I got so sick of hearing it I stopped going back to him. Just because it's unusal, doesn't mean it can't happen. That's my experience in trying to get well.

Wormwood, I guess you have probably done plenty of parasite cleansing since you chose the username woodwood. There is no quick fix for this. I noticed in Japan that chronic fatigue syndrome is called low NK disease. I wonder how many here have had their blood tested for natural killer cells.

I've done all the curezone 'cures'. I first thought curezone was my answer back in 2000. Nope, still feel like rubbish.

Yeah I agree it was a pretty unusual reaction. I took 1 tab of Iodoral and the hair loss started shortly after that. It was not diffuse hair loss either. It was alopecia areata where you lose circle or patches of hair. It was quite devastating to me and I am afraid to take iodine now. Having no hair on the left side of your head as a women is not very confidence boosting. haha Thankfully it all grew back but it was gone for over a year. I just don't want to have that happen again.

The more I read of people actually getting better are those who took DMPS orally or IV. If I took DMPS, I'd definitely try orally first and follow Cutler's frequent dose schedule taking it every 8 hours. IV's do scare me a little bit!

Birdlady, did your blood tests show low levels of natural killer cells? That seems to be a marker for CFS. Once more serious diseases that cause low NK are ruled out, then a diagnosis of CFS can be made. I believe that CFS is caused by mercury, other toxic metals, or other toxins. I guess testing the blood for NK cells is a way someone can prove they are sick if they need to apply for disability benefits, or to convince family members that they are sick.

I never had my NK cells tested.

Lets say someone did have their NK cells tested and they were low. What does that do for you in terms of getting better? Is there some type of treatment out there that is promising to fix this issue? You can have all the labs in the world, but if there is no way to do anything to change it then it means nothing. That may be a bleak way to look at it, however that's how I feel.

I don't know how many times I have to say this for you to understand that I don't have CFS. I do not have the debilitating fatigue and PEM most say is the main symptoms of CFS. If I can keep my HR's down (doing activities sitting) I am pretty much normal. Even if I did have CFS and got a diagnosis, what exactly would that do for me? Most of those CFS forums are just as worthless as the POTS forums. It is just people complaining and not really doing anything to get better. I agree with wormwood, these cures people throw around at curezone and a lot of these natural forums are not cures at all. No one is actually getting better. It is simply wishful thinking and theory.

I assume since you are telling people to do all of these things, that you have tried them yourself? Are you better...That's all that really matters in the end. Who is better and who is not.

"Lets say someone did have their NK cells tested and they were low. What does that do for you in terms of getting better? Is there some type of treatment out there that is promising to fix this issue? You can have all the labs in the world, but if there is no way to do anything to change it then it means nothing. That may be a bleak way to look at it, however that's how I feel"

I don't blame you for feeling that way. I stopped getting tests years ago. Some things like B12 injections, filtering tap water before drinking it(the chlorine and even tiny amounts of lead could be a problem), parasite cleanses, and taking the right supplements can help. This web page outlines supplements that may help.

http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html

There doesn't seem to be any magic cure, just making one's environment less toxic, and getting the heavy metals out of the body via chelation. Some people do need some proof they are ill though, and the blood test for natural killer cells is one of the few that will probably show something significant that is quantifiable for those with this illness.

"I do not have the debilitating fatigue and PEM most say is the main symptoms of CFS. "

Oh. The debilitating fatigue IS what most people here have. Many also have fibromyalgia and chemical sensitivity. Only a few who were posting here seem to be completely cured, and I believe most of them were ill primarily due to parasites, and when they
got rid of the parasites they healed. Others here have had parasites as a result of immune system damage, but even after aggressive use of antiparasite herbs they are improved, but still did not feel well. If you don't have the fatigue, fibromyalgia, or chemical sensitivity, then what makes you think mercury is the cause? Did you have many mercury fillings?

I have tried many things over the years. In some ways I am doing better than I was in the past, however I still don't feel well.


Is POTS your only major problem? There may be many other causes of POTS besides mercury. Mineral derangement caused by mercury or other toxic metals might be a cause of POTS though. I think I probably also have POTS, but probably a very minor case. My major problems are fatigue, fibromyalgia, and multiple chemical sensitivity. I do feel better with additional salt intake.

Yes my main symptom is just POTS. I've said that like 2 or 3 times already.

I do not have fibromyalgia and very little chemical sensitivities. I don't think it's any more than what is normal. Who wants to smell paint or exhaust fumes? lol

I absolutely do have mercury poisoning. I had 8 amalgams in my adulthood which were removed back in winter of 2008. All of my baby teeth had amalgam in them too. In addition I had lots of vaccines too. There is also a huge amalgam tattoo in my mouth I am trying to get removed next week.

I've done daily b12 injections with no difference with my POTS. It does help with my leg numbness and tingling. We have well water but we still filter it with a gravity filter. We had it tested any way and it is clear of lead and all heavy metals so that is not the problem at all. Even if I drink our water from the tap it would be safe.

I'm trying to figure things out too. I tried pretty much everything that these "health forums" suggest with no dice. I don't think DMSA is strong enough to get mercury out. I don't want to be doing this stupid protocol for 10 years. I'd like to get better before I hit 30.

From that link you posted:
Research suggests that as many as 75% of individuals with fibromyalgia have bacterial overgrowth in the small bowel. Clinical experience has found that the pathogen overgrowths cannot be fully eliminated without detoxification of mercury and toxic metals which facilitate the pathogen overgrowths(581).

So we are back to having to find a GOOD heavy metal detox protocol. The Cutler protocol is just not cutting it.

Do you get enough magnesium? A deficiency of B12 or magnesium can cause the numbness and tingling. Are you getting enough iron, copper, and folic acid?

You never mentioned if you did some parasite cleanses. I was skeptical about them until I did some of them myself and they they helped me feel better. While most here who were sick did not get well after doing parasite cleanses, many who did them improved, and some who could not tolerate chelation before doing them were able to do chelation.

DMPS can be very dangerous. It is not even FDA approved so those in the US might need to become part of a study in order to get it. Imo it should only be used as a last resort. I doubt that I would ever want to use it. Some became much worse after using DMPS.

There is no quick and easy fix. Be careful about doing things that might cause permanent harm.

Perhaps the very bad reaction you had to iodine means that some toxin in your body was mobilized by the iodine. How long have you been ill? Do you live near a source of environmental pollution?

I'm following you Birdlady. I want my mercury out too. I can't do any of it for over 9 months now as I have just fallen pregnant. I hope when I am ready there is something for me to try. My poor baby will be born with a little mercury but not the the amount I was subjected to. I won't be having amalgams while it's in me!

Wormwood, it is a good idea to be careful when you are pregnant. Don't even think about amalgam replacement or chelation until after you give birth(or after you finsh breastfeeding if you plan to breastfeed you baby). You should be concentrating on nutritional supplements now, and make sure you get enough iron, folic acid, B12, iodine(not megadoses, but decent sized normal doses) and magnesium, zinc, selenium, calcium, etc. Make sure to get enough B vitamins and vitamin c. Those who are mercury toxic tend to be mineral deficient.

Make sure you don't take wormwood while you are pregnant. It is even advised not to take licorice root during pregnancy.

DMPS is no more dangerous than driving to work every day...haha I don't trust the FDA any way, so that doesn't mean much to me. They approve drugs known to cause serious problems in people (Vioxx anyone?) and then come after supplements with their fearmonger tactics to get them taken off the market.

I have done some parasite cleanses and they did something, but nothing significant enough to even be mentioned.

JK, You are free to do what you want. If you want to do the Cutler protocol for another 10 years to see if you feel a tiny bit "better" then that is great. I on the other hand will be looking at other options out there because in 10 years I'd like to be completely recovered and living a normal life. How many years will it take for you to come to the realization that Cutler's protocol isn't working. 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? There was a ridiculous post on the frequent dose yahoo group today. Someone made a progress report saying he has been chelating for 6 1/2 years now with minimal improvement. Sure enough the Cutler followers come in and thank him for the encouragement. What encouragement? He is not better and has made very little improvement, but now his post will be used as another success story. Another complete lie from those people and you wonder why I am questioning this?

Wormwood, I am excited but also scared for you. My biggest fear right now is getting pregnant. What if I give my baby all of my health problems? I really hope everything goes well for you and the baby.

"Someone made a progress report saying he has been chelating for 6 1/2 years now with minimal improvement."

That makes me believe that he has another more serious medical problem than mercury toxicity from amalgams. Some who chelate with ALA and DMSA also stay on very tiny doses. to get any meaningful outcome, one has to build up to a decently large dose. I am now chelating with 100mg DMSA and 200 mg ALA every 3 hours.

I have nothing against trying different things as long as they are safe. DMPS is known to have much more toxicity than DMSA.
I am not willing to try DMPS. It seems like a real gamble. Some people have been very badly damaged by DMPS.

http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml

http://www.cfspages.com/chelation.html

http://www.jashbotanicals.com/articles/dmps_chelation.html

I give you credit for wanting to try things, however safety must always be the first thing to keep in mind.

http://oralchelationtherapy.org/category/dmps-chelation/

http://www.toxic-metal-chelation.com/chelation-synthetic.html

DMPS has a long safety history in Europe where it was first used.

DMPS is an easy scapegoat because it's not easily acquired and is expensive so many "alternative" doctors love to bash it.

Most DMPS "backfires" are related to the fact that many doctors do incredibly stupid things with it like use it on patients with mouths still full of amalgams, or inject gigantic dosages of it in a "push". You don't see this with DMSA since it's not an injectable. It only takes some searching to find people totally screwed up by taking too much DMSA for example- usually for the same reasons (large doses or mouths full of amalgams)

The other issue with it is that it's a sulfa-drug and a certain percentage of the population has a sulfa intolerance. The exact same issues arise with commonly used sulfa antibiotics.

DMPS still has the highest affinity for inorganic mercury of any chelator, so long as it's used safely (orally for example).
Even Cutler says it's his preferred chelator.

Of course, it all comes down to finding a good doctor. Many chelation docs swear by DMPS when used appropriately.

Anyone who wants to chelate should find a good doctor to monitor things.

I don't dispute that DMPS chelates mercury well, however there is much written about its toxicity, and that in many places DMPS is only used as an an emergency treatment for acute mercury poisoning. Some are very worried about the possibility of kidney damage from using DMPS.

While oral DMPS at low doses is probably much safer than IV treatment at high doses, oral DMPS still has plenty of risks and is much more toxic than DNSA.

I know some people feel desperate and will try almost anything. Imo the most important thing is to be cautious.

I guess some people feel they have tried everything else and must try DMPS. Did you ever consider why DMPS is not FDA approved and why in many countries DMPS is used only for acute mercury poisoning(when someone has a very real chance of gying soon without very powerful treatment), while DMSA is so easily available in most places?

DMPS scares me, and it should scare others as well. I would like to try new things to get well, however safety is my primary concern, and I do not want to take something that might cause permanent damage. DMPS and DMSA were developed many years ago. It is surprising that there are no new chelators that safer and more effective than DMPS.







http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/93793

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1353625

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/93794

Sure, everyone has to decide on their own.

Of those links you just listed, the first post was mentioning that DMSA was causing low neutrophils which is a serious condition if left to continue.

Additionally, someone mentioned DMPS causing kidney pain which is sort of funny because that's one of the prime complaints of DMSA and I've experienced it myself.

As far as DMPS not being FDA approved- the FDA approved amalgams...need we say more?

From what I've read, DMPS is out of patent so there is no money for someone to put a generic drug through approval for millions of dollars. DMSA is ONLY approved for pediatric lead poisoning, not adults or mercury use- but of course people still use it. I've read plenty of clinical studies where it was used without any issues.

That's again why I say it's important to find a doc to monitor the process- it's important to know for example if your neutrophils drop or liver enzymes elevate.

I think there's a misconception that chelation should be painless and easy- but when you're drawing out huge amounts of a neurotoxin I think we should be thankful it can be done at all.

Many people on the frequent dose boards are looking for adrenal and thyroid meds but aren't even following the basics and taking antioxidants while they chelate! No wonder they feel terrible.

Cutler says of DMPS: "More often than not people find the subjective experience of using
DMPS more comfortable and pleasant. Also DMPS seems to stir up yeast problems less." http://onibasu.com/archives/am/92858.html

I think DMPS and DMSA both have considerable downsides but right now they're the best options we have and they have considerable studies on their use so we have a better idea of the their risks.

JK,

You are making it sound like Dr. Cutler is against the use of DMPS and he is not as long as you follow his dosing schedule of every 6-8 hours. There are tons of posts where Dr. Cutler talks about using DMPS orally. The links provided are about IV's so I assume that is what you are concerned about? I am too and don't see myself getting IV's any time soon, if ever. I am talking about oral dmps in an appropriate dose taken exactly as Dr. Cutler suggests. It is scientifically proven that DMPS gets out more mercury than DMSA, so if that is our problem, then it should be more effective.

I am one of those people who gets low neutrophils from taking DMSA, so it is a concern of mine. If DMPS won't do this, then that is all the more reason to give it a shot.

Below are all quotes from Andy himself on the various chelation groups talking about DMPS.

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/89552.html
"Some people really think that FDA approval means something so they want to use DMSA rather than DMPS."

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/71402.html
"DMPS is great stuff. If cost isn't an issue and you are sure that your kid has mercury and maybe arsenic, but not other stuff, it is better than DMSA for most people."

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/129116.html
"The msoit severe criminals always work for the government.

It is completely legal for an MD or DO or nurse practitioner to Rx DMPS, which may be dispensed as a "bulk chemical" by a compounding pharmacy even though it is not FDA approved as a drug. There is a special law covering DMPS and a variety of other substances, making it legal to prescribe and dispense them. FDA approval is not the only way it can be legal to sell things."


I specifically remember a post from Dr. Cutler saying if he would do it all over again, he would use DMPS. Back when he was trying it out though it was very difficult to get and even more expensive. If I find that post I will link to it. Maybe it was even in his book?

A few years ago the FDA did go after DMSA saying it was going to be pulled from the market as a dietary supplement. I know that the FDA was questioning whether it should have been grandfathered in (as a dietary supplement) and wanted documentation it was purchasable prior to a specific date. DMSA does not really fit the FDA's dietary supplement regulations and I think they were questioning it. Perhaps that information was supplied or maybe another loophole is being used. I'll have to look more into it.

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/45069.html

"I'm starting to think that DMPS may be the better choice in a lot of cases."

This is from Cutler himself back in 2002.

Sounds like the way to go. I know ALA and DMSA messed me up so it's no safe alternative.
I have had a fear of birth all my life. I am 39 and figure it's now or never. I thought about the never option but I regret everything I have not done in my life and didn't want not having a baby to be yet another regret until I die.

"Additionally, someone mentioned DMPS causing kidney pain which is sort of funny because that's one of the prime complaints of DMSA and I've experienced it myself."

It is important to take DMSA on an empty stomach and with at least 8 ounces of water. It is important to stay properly hydrated when using DMSA.

Even if I could get DMPS, in addition to safety concerns the cost would be another reason not to use it. DMSA is expensive enough at around $1 each for a 100 mg capsule. Is a dose of DMPS something like $10? It is easy enough to spend $1,000 on DMSA for a year. I can't imagine spending $10K for DMPS.

Are you sure the low neutrophils was from DMSA and not from the mercury itself? Did your neutrophil level get worse after you started DMSA?

"Mercury from amalgam interferes with production of cytokines that activate macrophage and neutrophils, disabling early control of viruses and leading to enhanced infection(131,251). Mercury’s activation of inflammatory cytokines and Th2 helper immune cells suppresses the cytotoxic response of T-cells and natural killer immune cells that are the body’s main defense against viruses and such biological pathogens(181,472,580). Animal studies have confirmed that mercury increases effects of the herpes simplex virus type 2 for example(131). Mercury damages the immune system and in those with chronic conditions has been found to commonly facilitate infestation by pathogens such as viruses, harmful bacteria, candida, mycoplasma, and parasites"

http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html

I would be happy to spend $1000 to get rid of mercury. I spent more than that last year on a doctor and he didn't make me well.
Having the amalgams removed costs a fortune so it stands to reason you would spend a lot on the rest of the job at hand.

It is a side effect from the DMSA. I also had elevated liver enzymes which is from the DMSA too.

Found a link-- http://www.rxlist.com/chemet-drug.htm

...The most common events attributable to succimer, i.e., gastrointestinal symptoms or increases in serum transaminases, have been observed in about 10% of patients (see PRECAUTIONS). Rashes, some necessitating discontinuation of therapy, have been reported in about 4% of patients. If rash occurs, other causes (e.g. measles) should be considered before ascribing the reaction to succimer....Mild to moderate neutropenia has been observed in some patients receiving succimer.

There's a chart of side effects on page 3 of that link if you are interested.


Can't put a price on good health in my opinion. Is feeling well not worth more than all the money in the world?

Ya, I forgot to drink...are you serious?

When I chelate I am loaded up on fluids and antioxidants...I pee constantly.

Everyone responds differently; just because DMSA is hassle-free for some doesn't mean it is for all.

As far as DMPS being 10x more expensive...it's also anywhere from 10-20 times more effective which in actuality would make it cheaper overall.

But most importantly is its preference for inorganic mercury over other metals. If you have high metals beyond mercury it might takes months of DMSA before the mercury starts coming out. We've all seen people using DMSA for years without results.

I don't see why you are so opposed to DMPS when plenty of people are having great results with it and even Cutler recommends it.

DMSA has lots of issues as well, with many docs refusing to use it.

Mercola for example points out that: "Since succinic acid is used in the citric acid cycle inside the cell, DMSA has been suspected for displacing mercury towards the inside of the cell86 after binding mercury somewhere on its way from the intestine to the succinic acid deficient cell. " http://www.mercola.com/article/mercury/mercury_elimination.htm

I've seen other doctors express these same concerns.

Regardless, DMSA and DMPS both have downsides and risks, there is no prefect chelator. All we can do is see what makes us well. People using DMSA and not getting better for 5+ years tells me something is seriously wrong here.

I feel this is kind of a pointless debate because even an amazingly safe drug or herb for that matter can cause problems in certain people- all one can do is adapt and find something else if it is causing problems.

"As far as DMPS being 10x more expensive...it's also anywhere from 10-20 times more effective which in actuality would make it cheaper overall."

Care to provide some proof of that? The articles I read say DMPS is slightly better than DMSA at chelating mercury but is also several times as toxic. The absorption of DMSA is also greatly reduced if it is taken with food. When I chelate, I eat quickly 30 minutes after I take the dose.

Some people might not tolerate DMSA. I am not disputing this. Many who can't tolerate DMSA also can't tolerate ALA and also have problems with some other sulphur compounds. It is also likely that they will have trouble tolerating DMPS. Perhaps they also might be sulphur deficient, in which case the body might break down the chelating agents in order to get the sulphur it is starving for, and these chelating agents won't be able to chelate. I am on a high sulphur diet, and I think this helps the DMSA and ALA to work more effectively at chelating. Perhaps some who have trouble tolerating DMSA and ALA might be deficient in molybdenum?

"But most importantly is its preference for inorganic mercury over other metals. If you have high metals beyond mercury it might takes months of DMSA before the mercury starts coming out. We've all seen people using DMSA for years without results."

Mercury toxicity clogs the natural detoxification channels for other heavy metals as well, so even with very tiny exposure to other heavy metals over years in addition to the mercury, it is likely enough that people who are sick from amalgam fillings have also developed toxicity from other heavy metals as well.

"I don't see why you are so opposed to DMPS when plenty of people are having great results with it and even Cutler recommends it."

My concerns with DMPS are toxicity, that it is not easily available, and also that it is so expensive. If DMSA wasn't available, or I couldn't tolerate DMSA, then I guess I might not be so against DMPS, although I might just chelate with ALA alone and if that didn't work then I might consider DMPS. I guess if I don't see any major improvement in my condition using DMSA and ALA I might eventually decide that DMPS might be worth the risk and expense. I think so far I have only done around 50 rounds of DMSA and ALA, and probably less than 20 of those rounds were using 200 mg ALA with at least 50 mg DMSA. Now I am chelating with 100 mg DMSA and 200 mg ALA per dose, but only with 3 day rounds. I think I need to do many more rounds with DMSA plus ALA. I had so many amalgams for so many years, so I don't expect this to clear up so quickly.

A first page Google result shows: "Studies performed at Doctors Data Inc. laboratory indicate that oral DMSA (30 mg/kg/day) for 1 to 3 days only yields about 1/5-1/10 the amount of mercury in the urine as does a single IV or oral dose of DMPS." http://www.mercout.com/pages.php?pageid=9

The dosing above at 30mg per kg would be around 2grams per day of DMSA for an adult TAKEN FOR 1 to 3 DAYS! - which I see no one taking. This dose was only 1/5-1/10 as effective as a SINGLE IV or ORAL dose of DMPS. Compare DMPS to some of the lower doses of DMSA people are taking and it may be even more effective than I posted. I've seen autistic kids tests posted that were showing almost no mercury on DMSA and then went from 1 to 30+ on DMPS...even if we agree it's only 5x better that's still relevant to someone who is very ill.

However, this has ceased to be an argument about anything but JK98 being "right".

People have posted all sorts of things in this thread from the concerns that DMSA is dangerous, listed neutropenia side effects, proof that Cutler says DMPS is better, explanation as to why DMPS is not FDA-approved, etc. and JK's response is to ignore those things and come up with another thing that needs to "proven". Then it too will be ignored as another challenge is laid down.

I'm all for friendly debate, but this isn't it so I will bow out of this thread now.

Everyone needs to make their own decisions about this under care of a doctor.

"A first page Google result shows: "Studies performed at Doctors Data Inc. laboratory indicate that oral DMSA (30 mg/kg/day) for 1 to 3 days only yields about 1/5-1/10 the amount of mercury in the urine as does a single IV or oral dose of DMPS." http://www.mercout.com/pages.php?pageid=9"

Much of the mercury released by DMSA is through the bile and not through the urine(That is probably why there is much more concern about the possibility of kidney damage with DMPS rather than DMSA ), so just measuring mercury excreted through the urine is meaningless. It is almost as absurd as just measuring the fecal mercury excretion, and based just on that saying that DMSA works so much better than DMPS.

Let's just say that for many DMPS isn't even an option, however even for those who are able to use DMPS, imo it should only be used if DMSA has not worked for them.

http://www.medical-library.net/index.php?option=com_phorum&Itemid=0&phorum_query=read,2,3718

http://www.drcranton.com/mercury/dmsa.htm

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/43831

A 12.5 mg dosage of ALA after years of chelating???? No wonder why some people show minimal progress after several years. I think one needs to build up to at least a dose of 1 mg per pound of body weight for each dose of ALA and do that for many rounds to get any significant results. I am wondering what the upper dosage limit would be for ALA. When I chelate I use a 200 mg dose(I am 175 pounds). That works out to around 1400mg a day of ALA. would 2800 mg a day of ALA be too much?

congratulations to wormwood on the pregnancy. keep us up to date on how its going. i have had four babies myself so if you need any advice just shout.
this post is very informative, i think that just as each body deals with mercury in its own way so the detoxing will be individual, i am still unsure which way to go, i always prefer the most natural and least invasive. plus juggling too many pills is beyond me.
i have found that keeping it as simple as possible allows the body to heal without confusing it by overdoing the supplements. i have seen an 80% improvement in all my CNS symptoms just from amalgam removal and the bare minimum of supplements. i am using essential oils to help with body symptoms and boost immune system. Also 'sweating' with hot baths with baking soda. I felt a definite imporvement from physical symptoms after root canal extraction and following the candida diet (the first week was real bad but now i am good and food tastes so much better than before).
i am nervous to go hardcore into chelation, just eating sulphur foods makes my head throb so i plan on following the clues my body gives on what is right for me. we have all learnt our own coping mechanisms when feeling ill, we should keep following ourselves during the healing process. for some the damage will be irreversible and we have to accept that no matter what we do some parts of this trial will remain with us.

good luck to all and to wormwood and her little one.

"i am nervous to go hardcore into chelation, just eating sulphur foods makes my head throb so i plan on following the clues my body gives on what is right for me. "

Detoxification causes discomfort though, and some people make the mistake of avoiding supplements or foods that help them detox since these make them feel uncomfortable. Taking molybdenum supplements(perhaps 500 mcg a day?) might help you tolerate sulphur foods better.

I got the amalgam tattoo removed and I see the doc for the oral DMPS early tomorrow morning. I am cautiously optimistic. At least I am doing something different to try to get better...

50 rounds of chelation with no noticeable improvement seems like a waste of time to me. Results are all I care about.

I was looking at Dr. Amy Holmes website (who was apparently big into Dr Cutler's protocol at one point) and I found it interesting that none of her patients over the age of 13 had marked improvement on Dr. Cutler's protocol. The only people getting marked improvement were kids from age 1-5.

Considering I'm not aged 1-5 this doesn't give me much encouragement for Dr. Cutler's protocol.

Let us know how expensive the DMPS is. Don't expect magic from the DMPS. Some say that overall it is only slightly more effective than DMSA. DMPS seem to do much better at getting mercury out of the kidneys than DMSA, however it seems like DMSA works better getting the mercury out of the liver. I guess for that reason DMPS might show impressive results based on urine collected in a 24 hour challenge test, but overall mercury excreted longer term using DMPS might not be that much greater than for DMSA.

Have you seen a number of people say they were cured rapidly using oral DMPS? I have a feeling that DMPs might only produce slightly better results than DMSA(when each used with ALA)but with at least 3x the toxicity when using DMPS, and perhaps something like 10X the cost(which will most likely not be covered by insurance since DMPS is not FDA approved, and therefore deemed experimental).

Many using Cutler's protocol with ALA+DMSA use dosages that are much too low.

What dosage do you plan to use for the DMPS? Will you take it with ALA, or initially just take the DMPS? I guess many are curious about how costly this will be for you, if you will tolerate DMPS better than DMSA, and how rapid your progress will be.

Yesterday I had my doctor take my BP/HR while sitting which was 145/90 ~70 HR and then I stood up. My BP stayed the same, but my HR was over 120 immediately upon standing. POTS diagnosis requires the HR to increase by 30bpm or hit 120 within 10 minutes of standing, so I completely blow that out of the water. Finally this doctor saw firsthand exactly what I go through on a daily basis. Most people look at me and think I'm insane because I look completely normal. Any way...

I will have to call the pharmacy back on Monday to see the costs. I price checked before but want to double check again. I will likely have to throw this on a credit card to even pay for it. That's part of trying to get better. I spent all my money (thousands and thousands of dollars) on other crap that didn't work, so I have to keep trying until I find the right thing.

I was going to start with 50mg every 8 hours. Probably 3 day rounds for now unless something really bad happens to me. At this rate I cannot see DMPS being any worse than DMSA which makes me break out in rashes, hives and makes my neutrophils and WBC counts go below lab range.

No I do not plan on using ALA at least for the time being. There are studies that show it redistributes mercury into parts of the body that had no mercury to begin with.

The only people I have seen cured at all were using DMPS either orally or IV. Not a single person with chronic mercury poisoning has been cured with DMSA. I don't think it will be rapidly, but at least they eventually got better. I will give this ~3 months (90 capsules would be enough rounds for 2.5 months worth) and if I see no improvements at all then I will re-evaluate at that time to see what I want to do next.

The problem with those on these health forums is they become too attached to 1 specific protocol or idea and cannot admit when something isn't working. You all can stay sick by trying the same thing over and over again with little to no results. Meanwhile I will try a thousand different things until I find one that works!!!!!

When you have your bood pressure checked, do they check it in both arms? If the difference is not very small, it might hint at localized circulatory problems. When you sit for a long time, do your legs tend to swell?

"No I do not plan on using ALA at least for the time being. There are studies that show it redistributes mercury into parts of the body that had no mercury to begin with. "

The tendency of ALA to redistribute mercury occurs mostly when it is used improperly, ie. one large dose a day, and when it is used without DMSA or DMPS simultaneously.

I am starting to think that one of the most crucial things that determine whether chelation works successfully or not is how well the body can produce glutathione. Many supplements seem to help boost glutathione. These include vitamin D, vitamin c, vitamin E, garlic, and ALA.

I have tried many things, but not DMPS. Cilantro looks interesting. I tried eating large amounts of cilantro during some ALA/DMSA rounds. I would not advise eating plenty of cilantro while not in the middle of rounds with plenty of DMSA or DMPS as mercury could redistribute. I think taking NAC during rounds might also help them be more effective. I wish I could boost my DMSA dosage which is now 100 mg per dose, however since DMSA gave me diarrhea once when I boosted the dosage, I am cautious about raising the dose.

I am looking for new ideas, however I am not yet ready to try DMPS.

The DMPS without ALA might not do that much good. I agree that to start with you should choose a low dose of DMPS alone without DMSA to see how you tolerate it. Perhaps you should start with just 25 mg the first round, just in case you get a very bad reaction to it. Perhaps if you tolerate the DMPS well and get the dosage up to 100mg after 4 or 5 rounds, then you should add ALA along with it? Initially the DMPS will get plenty of mercury out of the kidneys, but after that the ALA will be necessary to mobilize the mercury from the brain and nervous system, and to help remove it from the liver and thyroid.

Birdlady, I found an article mentioning licorice root as a treatment for NMH(dr. Cheney also mentioned salt water. Don't scream).

Licorice root helps relive several of my symptoms(fibromyalgia, feeling toxic, constipation, etc.). I also like the taste of licorice root tea.

I don’t come here very often because I am better now, but I have been asked to reply to Birdlady on this thread. I have not read it all as it is very long and many questions have been asked. (If you have questions for me, then you may email me directly)

Update on my progress – 5th March 2011

I have been amalgam free for 3 years and 4 months now. I have done 61 Andy Cutler chelation rounds in total. I did 21 rounds in 2010. My rounds are @ 5mg’s ALA only, 3 day long each and I have chelated for a total of 178 days in the last 3 years.

My situation continues to get better and better and i consider myself back to normal now. I have no major symptoms remaining. I have no minor symptoms remaining now either. All my food intolerances have gone and I can eat any food I choose. My mind is back together in one piece, along with my memory. My body is free from aches and pains. Heart problems sorted out too.

Today I consider my health to be "pretty good" for a 41 year old. I am healthier than many of my “healthy” friends of a similar age. Life is 100pct back to normal, which is a far cry from 3-4 years ago when my world imploded with a multitude of mercury poisoning problems.

I am proud to tell you that recently I have managed to raise my chelator dose:
from 4mg's ALA, all the way up to 5mg's ALA….LOL. I am a low dose-er! The rounds are very easy and hassle free now. I sometimes get a little grumpy and tired after the round (for 1-3 hours) but its small-fry and not noticeable to the outside world.

I did try raising my dose up to 6.25mg's ALA – but that gave me pretty bad side-effects incl brain fog. That was my first nasty round in 1.5 years and the first brain fog for 2 years.

Those who remember me will know that I was big into herbs. I have had spectacular success with the herbs and I still continue to do the herbs all the time, rotating different sets of herbs to clean different parts of my body. I get no/mimimal side effects from the herbs and for the last 9 months I have been chelating and doing herbs at the same time with zero problems.

Chelation does throw up problems from time to time. Issues crop up and I must find solutions and that is the reason I continue doing the herbal cleanses even though I am better. I had a heart problem that took me 9 months to figure out, but I eventually found the solution to that and now my heart is perfectly fine and normal.

My thyroid is still fine and all healed up. I take no thyroid supplements anymore and have not done so for over 1 year.

My adrenals have recently completely healed up too. They where 80pct better with the herbs and the ACE, but after a combination of a 30 day bowel cleanse, together with a 30 day parasite cleanse, together with a 10 day liquid fast – they are now cured and I need no adrenal supplements. (That was in Jan 2011). Adrenals and thyroid support was a massive project to understand and cure. Took a lot of time and effort to sort everything out.

I am still colour blind but the colours keep coming back the more i chelate. I continue to totally love the experience of the colours returning, little by little, after each round. The rise to 5mg's ALA has accelerated the process, and is a sign that I still have mercury in me, and I still need to chelate.

I did my 5th Hair Test in July 2010 and for the first time my hair test met the counting rules: This refocused my chelation regime and reminded me that even though I am all better, that I still have mercury in me and I still need to chelate if I am to have a long healthy life.

I am still motivated to chelate, even though I am better. When I break from chelation I feel fantastic so I could easily stop right now, but, but, but….when I was sick, when the mercury hit me hard, I was very very sick and I never want to go back there again. So I will chelate as long as I can. It is very easy now anyway: I have no symptoms, chelation rounds cause me minimal/zero side effects.

I am very much on the home stretch. I am chelating for my future health now;-)

It’s worth just listing out all the problems I have solved so far:

Dairy allergy – gone
Wheat allergy – gone
Gluten allergy - gone
Soya allergy – gone
Nightshade allergy – gone
Passive smoking allergy – gone
All processed food allergy – gone
Sulphur food intolerance – gone
Fruit intolerance – gone
Sugar problem/hypoglycaemia – gone
Chronic heartburn – gone.
Constipated – gone
Bloating – gone
Dry skin – gone
Sleeping badly – gone
Libido – back to normal
Multiple chemical sensitivities – gone
Chronic back problems and chronic back pain for 10 years – gone.
Muscle weakness – gone. (This was an utter nightmare)
Short term memory problems – gone.
Brain fog – gone
Depression – gone
Tinnitus – gone
Angry – gone
Hypothyroidism – cured
Adrenal fatigue – cured
Chronic fatigue – cured
Fear of spiders – much reduced and no longer a problem.
Grumpy – mostly gone!

How did I do this? It was not luck. I worked my balls off to achieve this:

So far I have done 7 full body rounds with herbs. Moving around the body using different the sets of herbs to cleanse different parts of my body. Month after month, year after year, I am always doing some form of cleaning, be it chelation or one of the cleanses. Every week I am doing something to help myself without fail. To date it’s been 4 years. In that time I have gone from deaths door, to fit and healthy again.
In the last 4 years I have done the following:

Bowel cleanse x 7 = 7 months
Parasite cleanse x 7 = 7 months
Kidney cleanse x 10 = 7 months
Liver cleanse x 5 = 3 month
Liver flush x 10 = 10 weekends
Lung cleanse x 3 = 30 days
Candida cleanse x 2 = 60 days
Essiac Tea x 2 = 3 months
Castor oil packs for liver cleansing about x 75+ (I don’t keep count)
Detox baths with epsom salts about x 100+ (I don’t keep count)

Plus 3 years work on my thyroids
Plus 3 years work on my adrenals
Plus 60 chelation rounds.
Plus full environment detox
Plus lots of energy work (reiki, mediation, pranayama, yoga, Alexander Technique)
Plus my full time job
Plus my family

I still have mercury in me, chelation confirms that, but all the above has cleaned up the mess the mercury caused. And now I have no symptoms at all.

There is no short cut in this mercury game. Mercury does not work with short cuts. Mercury leaks out and poisons each and every part of your body. The leaked bits of mercury are very very small, and they go everywhere everywhere everywhere.

It takes a lot of time and effort to clear the mercury out.
It takes a lot of time and effort to clear up the mess the mercury caused.
These are two separate issues: The mercury & The mess.

Gently prodding the mercury with a stick every now and then just annoys it. It takes time & patience to gradually take it out. Some people need super low dosages of chelators because they are super toxic. I must be, because my chelator tolerance is so low…..but I still got better because of the multiple actions I took.

I was asked to come and sing the praises of Andy Culter chelation, and I do, wholeheartedly….but getting better is much more than just chelate chelate chelate. Getting better is about chelate, chelate, chelate …. and …. doing everything else you can find that helps…many many times over. And that’s what is so cool about Cutler: he explains that everything needs help, because everything inside had been poisoned. That understanding (which his books explain) is what drove me forward to try and do all the weird and wonderful things I did to get better.

Since I was asked to reply to Birdlady’s posts, I will make a few observations to the few posts that I read.

Why still on DMSA? ALA is what will cure you. DMSA is a minor sideshow compared to ALA. ALA is the real deal, numero-uno, kingpin of mercury chelation: ALA chelates your brain. You need to chelate with ALA in order to get better. DMSA(and DMPS) is taken to reduce side effects from ALA but DMSA stirs up yeasts/bacteria/parasites something terrible in some people. ALA rounds only are easier for some people. (it is for me)

If 25mg’s causes you too many side effects: then reduce the dose. I can’t expand/explain that to be any clearer because it is simple: if you have bad side effects from chelation, then you need to reduce the dose. You may also need to reduce the timings to shorter intervals. (but only change one thing at a time, so you know what causes what.)

It is not the dosage that is important. What is important is regular chelation at a dose that you can handle. I chelate at 5mg’s and I am all better now…but 6.25mg’s hits me hard. The dosage level is not a special competition to get to a specific super high level. The dosage is the dosage that suits you and your body. For me that’s 5mg’s. When you get near the end of chelation, when you are better, you can increase the chelation dose to a high level. But at the beginning super low doses are required by some people to move forward. There is no shame in having a low dose.

Good luck
Sunshine

Sunshine, I don't doubt that you were ill, however imo you were probably ill primarily from parasites or from nutritional deficiencies, and not mercury. I find it very hard to believe that chelating with a dosage of 5 mg of ALA has made such a big difference. I am chelating with 200 mg ALA and 100 mg DMSA every 3 hours for 3 day rounds. I have done over 50 rounds of chelation, although many were with ALA in the range of 50-100 mg a dose. I think I will probably try to chelate with 200 mg ALA +100 mg DMSA for another 3 or 4 months, until I use up my DMSA supply. If I don't show major improvement by then, I think I may give up on this and look for some other treatment.

ALA only rounds were very uncomfortable for me. I used 50 mg per dose for the ALA rounds. Imo ALA should not be used without DMSA or DMPS. ALA alone can cause too much redistribution of mercury.

I had 25 mercury fillings for over 20 years and unfortunately also ate plenty of canned tuna for quite a while, so I probably had much more mercury in my body than anyone else here.

"Sources of sulfur such as alpha lipoic acid, MSM and garlic are helpful for protection against heavy metals in general and specifically useful in mercury toxicity. Alpha lipoic acid should not be used alone, as it only mobilizes mercury with a weak bond. Without additional chelators present, such as DMPS or DMSA, the mercury may just redistribute elsewhere in the body instead of being removed."

http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T76343.html

I have to agree with JK on this one. I don't see how these low doses are doing anything to get any mercury out. I think that's part of the issue with Cutler's protocol. It has warped so much. In his book he recommends doing much higher doses and if you try those doses, the people on FDC yahoo group freak out at you and yell. Well it's right in Cutler's book!

Doing a more frequent dose seemed to help with some of the symptoms, but the rashes are nearly unbearable at times. It may be due to sulphur issues, but regardless it is quite annoying. I will see if I get the same reactions on DMPS as I do DMSA. If I do then I know it is the actual metals moving out of my body rather than the DMSA itself.

Sunshine, did you ever test your urine or feces to see if you were even excreting any sort of metals? Also do you have to still do cleanses to stay healthy and if the answer is yes, then what happens if you don't?

I am well aware of your story btw and no offense, but I don't buy the whole idea that 5mg of ALA was the reason for your success. Thanks for sharing but I just think it was the other stuff you were doing imo.

BTW! The DMPS is about $2.75 a pill for 50mg capsules.

"Doing a more frequent dose seemed to help with some of the symptoms, but the rashes are nearly unbearable at times."

some authors claim that the rashes result from the body trying to get rid of mercury through the skin. Unless the rashes are severe or very uncomfortable, perhaps the rashes should just be tolerated as an expected side effect of chelation. Chelation often gives me mild headaches. I don't mind these so much as long as they don't become severe.

I am starting to think that vitamin D is very important for mercury detoxification. To use vitamin D properly, the body needs the following cofactors

magnesium
zinc
vitamin K2
boron
a tiny amount of vitamin A

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

Just $2.75 per 50 mg capsule of DMPS sounds very cheap. Some posts I read talked about prices of 10-15 cents per mg.

Many who don't get well using the Cutler protocol may have difficulty making glutathione. It also seems to make sense to me that if someone is very sulphur deficient their body might break down the chelators in a desperate search for sulphur, and the chelators won't chelate.

Birdlady, how high are the doses of ALA that Cutler recommends in his book? In his online posts I believe he mentioned an upper limit for the ALA dose being one mg per pound of body weight every 3 hours. I am around 175 pounds and using a 200 mg ALA dose every 3 hours for 3 day rounds. I have been thinking about whether it makes sense for me to increase the dosage to 300 mg(or perhaps eventually even more than that?)

How would one increase the dosage when even miniscule amounts bring on horrible side effects? For me the worst side effect is panic attacks.

One would build up the dosage over time. Don't even think about chelating while pregnant though. While many need to start chelating with 25mg or less, they build up the dosage over time.
Those who have strong reactions to chelators might need to get rid of parasites and decrease candida first before chelating.


At one time I had such bad reactions to just 25 mg of ALA. Over time though I built up the ALA dosage to 200 mg.

B vitamins can help decrease panic attacks. I assume that you are taking prenatal vitamins that have plenty of niacinamide, folic acid, and B12. It is also important to get enough iodine while pregnant(not megadoses though).

Sorry JK I wasn't aiming the low dose comment at you. You are taking the appropriate doses in Cutler's book. In fact, I think you are probably taking some of the highest doses I have seen and I really do commend you for that. At least you are trying... I see people literally taking 5mg of DMSA and 1mg of ALA and they might as well be doing nothing in my opinion.

There is no way those tiny doses are doing anything to get mercury out. Most multi-vitamins have more ALA in 1 pill than what these people are taking on an entire week's worth of ALA at 1mg. People taking ALA outside of Cutler's protocol are not having these severe reactions. In fact most things online about ALA are all very positive. I really do not know what to think any more.

I have to consider some sort of placebo effect(once again not aiming this comment at you JK). I really think that people have become so scared of these chelators they start to sit there and think about everything they are feeling. haha I was guilty of this when I first started back in 2008 because of what was written on that stupid yahoo group. The members of frequent dose chelation yahoo group are scaring people and now I think they tell people to start at like 5mg of DMSA. I've seen posters write that even those small doses "crashed their adrenals". What?! I really just don't know what to think anymore...If what these people say is true, then what the heck is going on?

If I were rich I'd fund a double blind study on all of this stuff and really see what Dr. Cutler's protocol is doing to get metals out. I'd have several groups of people- 1 group taking large doses of DMSA (but told they were taking low doses) and 1 group taking small doses of DMSA (but told they were taking high doses) and see what their reactions and metal excretions were. I know there would be placebo effects in both of these groups.

At times the rashes are unbearable, but I do stick with it. The rashes are more like hives though because they come and go very quickly and leave no marks. Taking molybdenum, histidine and pantethine seem to really calm down the hive outbreaks so I will continue on these supplements. It very well may be a sulfur issue and DMPS may not help me here. lol

I can identify with the increased anxiety, panic attacks. Any chelation makes this happen with me too. In fact my husband was saying the other day that he noticed I've been keyed up ever since starting again. I think it's a side effect we might have to deal with unfortunately. I don't know. I suppose it depends on how severe the symptoms are like JK said.