News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

I have both copper and mercury poisoning and I've learned to tell the difference between the 2. General rule is that copper seem to be more of a stimulant and mercury more of a depressant (this is based on my experience).

Anyways I have only been treating copper for about 3 weeks and my symptoms have reduced by about 50%! I'm shocked at how quick it's leaving my system.

I'm following Andy Culters set up for copper treatment:
-50 mg Zinc, 3 times a day
-250 mg Molybdenum
-1 gram taurine, 3 times a day
-low dose Vitamin C

And B-6 seems to help with the copper symptoms (b complex actually seems to make my symptoms worse).

Hopefully I can get started on the mercury treatment pretty soon.

yea, I've been noticing huge improvements with my copper symptoms. Like you I'm taking taurine, zinc, molybdenum and vitamin c, plus i also take milk thistle for the liver which has made a huuuge difference. I also take a choline inositol supplement which has helped massively with mental symptoms. Haven't really tried b6 by itself but I do take a b complex now and then, don't really kno whether its exacerbating my symptoms.

That's interesting because milk thistle made my symptoms BIG time worse. I couldn't handle milk thistle.

I could be wrong about the b-complex.

I read a study that said lab rats that had copper poisoning lived longer when they were fed NAC. I'm kinda worried about NAC because I know it can stir up mercury in the brain.

Does going for a walk stir up you symptoms? it does for me.

yea exercise in general does. But the thing that I find most stirs up symptoms is taking a hot shower, which is really weird. But as I go along I seem to get less symptoms from these activities.

drinking alcohol also really exacerbates symptoms the next few days, and obviously drinking alcohol with high levels of copper including beer and wine really do not go down well ( i develop really weird symptoms rapidly if I drink moderate amounts of these beverages).

Just to update, copper symptoms still dissapearing and I feel as if my mental state is becoming more blanaced. Its real weird I know but it feels like I am coming out of a bad dream and becoming more in touch with reality. The awesome thing is that I now realise that I have suffered with these debilitating mental symptoms all my life (since I was about 5 when I got my mercury fillings, I am now 20) and its like I am experiencing life positively for the first time. I know this sounds over dramatic but its very true! Just one last note, one thing I have also noticed is that my sense of smell is sooo much better and I am not sensitive to perfumes and colognes any more.

" its like I am experiencing life positively for the first time"

I can understand that Joe

My reaction to alcohol is horrible just like yours, joe. It's the same with a bunch of different drugs, it just took me some time to notice it. It always stinks having to avoid alcohol in social situations, I mean what do I tell people? "Even a tiny bit of alcohol makes me feel like absolute crap! I have copper poisoning.", "O Rly?".

I'm tempted to add this one last supplement to my line-up because I heard bile is sooooooo important for people with copper poisoning. Maybe you should check it out: http://www.vitacost.com/NutriCologyOxBile

To HammerSmoke: Does Cutler say spesifically to only take low doses of C? How much is a low dose?

I've been taking high doses of C because I thought it is an antagonist to copper, but reading your post made me unsure.....

Ann <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

what are symptoms of copper poisoning???Thanks

Sandra, take a look at this previous thread and check out the links I provided further down. Copper symptoms are the exact same as mercury except copper especially causes a racing mind and lots of anxiety.........

http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/sh...&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Ann <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Actually he doesn't list vitamin C at all. I was going to clarify that but it must have slipped my mind.

He recommends taurine for bile flow though.

This website says zinc and vitamin c significantly stir up copper symptoms: http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/copper%20elimination.htm

Sandra,
Copper is indistinguishable from Mercury. A DDI hair test from directlabs.com and Cutlers book goes a long way. Mercury messes up mineral transport (ie derranged skewed minerals =counting rules.) Copper does not. Alot of people have both like myself. I get copper dumps when I take Vitamin C, for mercury people it should make them feel better. I believe alot of my symptoms 50-75 are copper and the other 25% are mercury. However, remember mercury is probably what is causing the copper retention other then outside genetic factors, like pyroluria.

Jason, could you tell me/us what supplements you are taking for your copper detox?

Ann <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also, is anybody here following the copper lowering diet.......apart from TRYING to stay away from alcohol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hmmmm I think my symptoms are 50/50%.

The anger, irritablity, and mood swings are probably caused by the mercury (especially because of the improvement i made from magnesium).

Copper is probably responsible for the bad drug interactions, and the over stimulation.

Yea I'm a low copper diet too.

So is anyone else consuming plenty of anti-oxidants while detoxing copper? Copper can cause a lot of oxidation damage.

I like Green Tea because it crosses the blood brain barrier (or so I've read).

Hey,

found this link about how chromium can lower copper levels.........

http://www.acu-cell.com/crcu.html

Ann

How do people get copper poisoning? Is it from eating too much nuts or high copper foods? I've been wondering if I have copper poisoning aswell as mercury poisoning, but I'm doubful as, even though I'm vegetarian, I haven't eaten high copper foods. Are there any symptoms different from mercury?

My guess is the low level mercury poisoning is what cause it because it disrupts the copper/zinc balance in the body. Like Andy Cutler says, it's very common for people with mercury poisoning to also have copper poisoning.

Plenty of plants have high copper especially Cocoa.

Also amalgams tend to be composed of a high level of copper as well as mercury, so it is very possible to become poisoned with copper the same way as we do with mercury

Just to update I am feeling so much better since I have started taking zinc with every meal, as suggested by Culter. THe zinc complex I take also contains many other beneficial vitamins and minerals for copper including B6, magnesium, chromium ,molybdenum and to a lesser extent manganese.

Demi: Copper poisoning: water from copper pipes (especially when the ph is low), birth control pills increase estrogen levels thereby increasing copper levels, poor liver function (causes low hormone breakdown, high estrogen, high copper), being a swimmer (copper functions as a fungicide and is added to pools and jacuzzies), copper IUD's, high calcium intake from suppliments and milk products, amalgamfillings with copper, a taste for lots of sugar (excretes zinc, increases copper retention), copper coloured hair dyes and make-up, stress (adrenal fatigue lowers copper excretion, but increases zinc loss), tea-drinker (copper in tea, tea-kettles and the water), cooking in copper cookware, taking multivitamins, and last but not least; being a vegetarian. Almost all the protein substitues such as soy, legumes, nuts and seeds contain very high copper. Also the only highly absorbed form of zinc is from meat. The vegetarian diet often consists of lots of carbs and/or vegetables and fruit. The carbs lower zinc levels because they have a high glycemix index...turns to sugar and contain phytic acid which greatly reduces zinc uptake. The fruit has a high fructose contents....the sugar reduces zinc uptake. The vegetables also contain phytic acid and reduces zinc uptake........needless to say, I regret my ten years of vegetarism.......My supposedly healthy veg. diet has left me low on protein (the sulphur amino acids in meat are essential for making the metalthionine metalbinding proteins for detoxing), low in B vits, low in zinc and low in iron.

Ann <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ox Bile really really made my symptoms worse just like the Milk Thistle. I'm not sure how I'm going to get all the copper out of my liver.

Hammersmoke: I think the taurine you are taking also enhances bile flow. Copper is excreted via bile. Maybe this could be enough instead of Ox bile????

Ann

Hi Ann.

I'm sorry vegetarianism didn't work for you. I actually got better after becoming a vegetarian, but I put this down to cutting out fish. I relied mostly on pre-made vegetarian products and milk/cheese for protien. Also I've never been on birth control pills or used IUD as I don't believe in either, from a moral or health perspective.

Also I have very rarely worn make-up. I have used henna dyes sometimes, but not regularly. I've always taken the natural approach to life. I don't drink alcohol and have never smoked. Haven't used copperware, but I could well believe I got something from the kettle as I noticed bits of metal in the water once. I didn't drink tea for about ten years as I didn't like it. Have drunk a lot of coffee and coke, though. Didn't take much soya, either.

Tap water and swimming pools could be a problem, though. But I wonder if I could actually have low copper. I took zinc supplement and pumpkin seeds (high zinc) on saturday and yesterday was very spaced out.

But I can't really worry about copper poisoning aswell as mercury poisoning right now, because I've already got a phobia of aluminium and metals in foods. If I worry about any more poisons in foods, I'll end up dying of an eating disorder or something. And, if I did switch to eating meat, it would make me feel so bad and guilty that it wouldn't do me any good. i'd probably vomit it right up.

Sometimes it all gets too much and I honestly feel suicidal, because there is no help and support, and I just don't know what to eat anymore. It's not my fault that they loaded my teeth with mercury as a child, but I have to pay for it in every way, both healthwise and in my lifestyle choices. It's so unfair, but I try not to think like that too much. But it gets to me lately. It seems like amalgam has ruined my whole life.

Demi, I totally understand how you feel. It gets to me also and I have to push those thoughts away like you probably do most times too, because they will just dig me a deeper hole.

I hope things work out for you and that you remain strong and have faith in the body and minds ability to heal with proper nourishment and self-love.

Ann <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am taking upwards of 250 mg of zinc per day spread out about 2000 mcg of mollybednum along with b vitamins and magnesium for my copper overload. Zinc and moly sounds alot, however I do a zinc taste test and I still fail every time.

How can you take so much zinc with getting nausea? If I don't space out my 50 mg pills (3 time daily) I will because very nausous. I've even vomited once.

Jason, thank you so much for replying <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I get nausea too and feel really sick in my stomach from just 15 mg at a time!!!!!!! Boy, you must have a really strong stomach....lucky you.

Ann <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

do. I have only thrown up about 3 times in my life. 2 of them before thI e age of 5. Once at 19 from severe food poisoning that required hospitalization. When I get copper dumps I get naseuaous. Honestly I don't think I am absorbing the zinc that well. When I used to do high does Vitamin C I wld get pretty sick to my stomach but not too much anymore now that I feel alot of the copper is gone. (vitamin c chelates copper) Zinc overcomes inbalances it, molybedenum blocks the absorption. If mercury is blocking uptake of zinc you will have to take alot to make yourself sick. My recommendation would be to do a zinc taste test with zinc tally from metagenics or another company. If you fail you are probabaly just experiencing a copper dump when you get sick.

Just to clarify I never take more then 100 mg of zinc. Normally 50-100 mg with each meal. Maybe 100mg with the first then 50 mg lunch then 50mg dinner. A total of about 150mg to 250 mg.

I know this thread is old but I felt I had to comment and make corrections. I'm struggling with Copper overload and I've done a lot of reading and research on the subject. Esp. Anne Louis Gittleman's book "Why Am I So Tired". Very informative book about Copper overload. It saved my life.


It's not the B-Complex that's making your symptoms worse, it's the Copper coming out faster because of the B-Complex.
It's the copper dumping symptoms. This is to be expected. B-Complex is good for the Adrenals. Copper overload and Adrenal fatigue are often interconnected. So if you're having these symptoms, it's most likely copper dumping symptoms.


The liver is the primary target for Copper overload. The Milk thistle is just doing it's job. Things will get worse before they get better... If you're interested in trying something else, Anne recommends Black Radish Root for the liver.


Again, of course it does. Exercise brings toxins out. So it's understandable your symptoms would appear to worsen during this activity. It also depends on the severity of the Copper overload and how strenuous the exercise is.


Copper Overload is connected to other conditions. Hypoglycemia, diabetes, adrenal fatigue etc. Taking a hot shower affected me as well. I forget the actual reason but it's because of your body temperature. Hot days (for me) also affected my symptoms. It could be the stress of the heat or a contributing condition that is a result of the Copper overload.


You are correct. It is a antagonist to copper and helps chelate it out of the body. Copper depletes vitamin C so you'd want to take a supplement for that. Anne Louis Gittleman recommends anywhere from 500mg-3000mg. Nothing over 5 though. Too much can affect other nutrients.


From what I've read from Anne's book, Teas are a no no.


You "feel" better. But that's just the copper overload. Vegan and Vegetarian diets are extremely high in copper. It creates a copper personality. It makes you "feel" like your healthy. But you're really not.

I believe I was born with Copper overload but it didn't directly affect me health wise until I went on a vegetarian diet. I felt so alive and healthy on it. And then a year later my hair started falling out and I started developing all these symptoms (adrenal fatigue, hypoglycemia, diabetes etc). So I went back on meat and dairy and that seem to make it worse. But I look back now, it was just certain meats (high in copper) and the milk that was exacerbating my symptoms. Milk is high in calcium. And too much calcium can exacerbate Copper overload... And to make matters worse, I have one kidney. So I only have one adrenal gland. The adrenals and Copper are interconnected. So it perhaps made me more susceptible to Copper overload issues.


If you're feeling like this on a Vegetarian diet, you seriously need to consider changing it. Otherwise, you will not get better. Anne Louis Gittleman does not recommend a vegan or vegetarian diet because of the high copper content. If you feel religiously about it, she recommends you take a copper free multivitamin and the vitamins and minerals suggested to chelate the copper out of your system. But you are doing your body a disservice with the diet.

You have to remember that the symptoms you are experiencing are Copper dumping symptoms and if you are taking the recommended vitamins and minerals, this is to be expected. Just remember these symptoms are normal and you are not alone.


I hope your doing this under the supervision of a doctor because 250mg of Zinc can be pretty dangerous and can affect other nutrients in the body and perhaps make things worse. 100mg should be the maximum.

Too many people think they have copper overload when they really have a copper deficiency! What makes you think you have copper overload? copper is part of the hemoglobin molecule and is also necessary for the absorption, storage, and utilization of iron. Some people who are copper deficient get iron deficiency anemia which is not helped by large amounts of iron supplements. They need to cure their copper deficiency to cure the anemia.


"Copper toxicity is rare in the general population."




http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/copper/

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=53

http://www.healthvitaminsguide.com/minerals/copper.htm

http://www.moondragon.org/health/disorders/copperdeficiency.html



The last link advises 3-5 mg a day of supplemental copper. Imo that is a bit much. Unless you have proof that you have excessive copper, it may be prudent to take 1 mg or 2 mg a day of supplemental copper.

While I haven't had my copper levels checked, I still feel that I need a copper supplement of around 2 mg a day, as I take plenty of supplemental molybdenum, zinc, and iron. Those who are doing chelation also need extra copper. They pointed out that the upper limit for copper intake for adults is 10 mg.

JK wouldn't taking all those supps everyday and worry about balances all over get really difficult and frustrating over time? I am not knocking you as we talk herbs all the time, but I tried all this balance stuff and just got frustrated and confused for years and vitamin supps never worked for me long.


I agree with what you said about Copper though there.

According to Ann Louise Gittleman, you can have both issues at the same time. You can appear deficient if the copper is not being utilized by the body correctly (bio availability) or because of the copper being stored in the liver, tissues, and hair and not in the blood. Or both etc.


Not according to Ann. Esp. with vegan and vegetarian diets. And lots of other diets that can lead to copper overload. Not to mention outside sources. Then you have Copper being added to multivitamins and birth control pills. If you get the recommended dosage of copper a day and you're taking a multivitamin with copper, that can easily lead to overload.


If you have copper overload, you don't want to be doing that. You want to avoid copper supplementation until your body is able to utilize and store copper properly. Otherwise, you're just adding to the problem. And if you eat foods that have copper in them, you don't need to supplement with copper. You're just doing your body a disservice by adding more.


If you're body has an overload of copper, again, you don't want to be adding more.


That is beyond way too much.

The doctors didn't know what was wrong with me so they tried to label me as depressed (red flag) and wanted to give me medication for it. I definitely said no to that. I believe there is a cause for everything. Things don't just happen. I was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism a couple years ago. They wouldn't treat me for it (even though my symptoms were really bad) because my TSH levels were not severe enough. It also might have something to do with the fact that I requested to take Armour instead of the drug counterpart. They didn't like that I was informed. So I decided to search why I developed this condition and came across Copper overload/hypothyroidism and Ann's book "Why Am I Always So Tired?" and everything in the book explained my symptoms and how I felt to a T. I started the no copper high zinc diet and since then, my symptoms have slowly dissipated.

And this all started with a vegetarian diet. After about a year of being on the diet, my hair started falling out and that's when I started developing the thyroid issues among other symptoms that are related to hypoglycemia and pre-diabetes. It also explained how I was as a kid so I was most likely born with it, it just wasn't severe enough. I also was born with one kidney so I only have one adrenal gland. And the adrenals and copper overload are interconnected. I was tested for food allergies because I told my doctors that I found it odd that I felt better when I didn't eat chocolate, soy, milk, and gluten. But the test came back negative. Chocolate, soy, and gluten are high in copper. And milk (high calcium) exacerbates copper overload. It just made sense. And one of the things that Ann recommends in her book is to go with your gut instinct. If you suspect you have copper overload, try the diet. Preferably under the supervision of a doctor.

""Copper toxicity is rare in the general population."

Not according to Ann. Esp. with vegan and vegetarian diets"

Huh? Vegetarian especially tend to be copper deficient. I am a vegetarian and have read several articles about this. I don't take a multivitamin. I take separate supplements. I am males and therefore do not use birth control pills. Many multivitamins have no copper or 1 mg or less.

"I was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism a couple years ago"

Why didn't you try taking large doses of iodine? For 2 months I took 50 mg a day of iodine. Now I cut it back to 25 mg. I think this helped solve my problem of below normal temperatures. Perhaps you might be selenium deficient. Selenium is important for converted T4 to the active T3, and mercury binds with selenium and makes it biologically unavailable. If you haven't already, perhaps you should try taking 50 mg a day of iodine, and 200 mcg a day of selenium.

"I started the no copper high zinc diet and since then, my symptoms have slowly dissipated. "

You might feel better since the zinc is helping fight infection.
You still haven't shown any proof of copper overload.


Imo your problem is probably not copper overload, but perhaps iodine deficiency, selenium deficiency, and also perhaps heavy metal(especially mercury and lead) poisoning.

Large milk intake, which results in huge calcium intake but little magnesium to balance it can result in bone loss and a loss of magnesium. Are you taking magnesium supllements or eating plenty of magnesium rich foods? Perhaps your fatigue might be due to magnesium deficiency? That would make sense.

"And this all started with a vegetarian diet. "

One other consideration. You might be carnitine deficient. Carnitine is crucial for energy production. Vegetarians have much lower levels of this than meat eaters, even though the body can make it. I take 1,000 mg a day of carnitine, but am considering increasing this. Vegetarians also have lower levels of creatine than meat eaters. This is another thing I supplement.
Vegetarian diets also tend to be low in zinc. Many vegetarians don't combine proteins properly. Perhaps you were protein deficient? Many vegetarian are iron deficient.

"JK wouldn't taking all those supps everyday and worry about balances all over get really difficult and frustrating over time?"

It isn't so easy figuring out which mineral supplements to take, and when to take each. Certain things like high iodine supplementation is controversial.

According to Ann Louise Gittleman, you can have both issues at the same time. You can appear deficient if the copper is not being utilized by the body correctly (bio availability) or because of the copper being stored in the liver, tissues, and hair and not in the blood. Or both etc.

I tried that symptoms to a T thing before and figured out so many things have the same symptoms and I would go all over saying oh this is it now this is what I have! Magnesium deficiency first it was, then it was Candid, Merucry, Parasites, Pyroluria (Look that up) and so on and so on. Most of the symptoms for those things are the same and cause alot of what I have to a T, as does Lymes disease. You can guess this and that all you want and say well this is me to a T, but you never really know and keep on guessing and feeling bad as long as you think that way and don't work hard on diet and some herbs to aid etc.


BTW try cleaing up your bowels, kidneys and liver etc. with herbs and foods, that will go a long way without worrying about this and that towards health (Helped me alot). You could also look into parasite cleanses and some yeast issues which could cause most of your problems you mention.

I don't know where you're getting your information from but vegetarians tend to have copper overload. And vegetarians also have a higher chance of developing thyroid issues because of soy (and copper overload). Nuts, beans, seeds, soy, cocoa, and grains are all high in copper. As for multi's, the majority of multivitamins have copper and the dosage is usually 2mg.


Large doses of iodine didn't help. I did that for for a few months before getting my TSH levels checked, the numbers hardly changed. It actually made me feel worse, made my voice really horsey, and hard to swallow. I take a copper free multivitamin along with extra separate vitamins (selenium included).


I can't show you proof. I just know what I've read and what my gut is telling me. If this diet is helping me, that's all that matters.


I take magnesium and I also eat foods with magnesium. Pumpkin seeds, Broccoli, Spinach, white beans occasionally. Any other magnesium food I avoid because my symptoms get worse because of the high copper content. I was also taking a multi when I was on the vegetarian diet. I actually told my doctor that when I drank milk, my bones... hurt. I had joint pain. But when I stopped drinking milk, it would go away. Which everyone thought was weird since milk is suppose to be good for the bones! This correlates with copper overload. Milk exacerbates copper overload symptoms. One of them is... joint pain.


That's certainly a possibility but I'll never know. That was a few years ago. All I know is ever since I went on that diet, it's been non stop symptom after symptom. I've tried different diets. Dairy free. Soy free. Gluten free. Anti-inflammatory. They all seemed to help but I still displayed light symptoms. That's when I came across copper overload. And read that soy is high in copper. Gluten. High calcium from milk can exacerbate copper. Chocolate (cocoa) is high in copper. My symptoms would always get worse around the holidays when I would have lots of fudge and cookies. Milk + Cocoa = bad combo. So it made sense why I felt better on those diets. They were a lot lower in copper, but still contained copper foods which is why my symptoms were continuing.


My name is Sean to!

Since the doctors refuse to help me, I've been through a lot of trial and error. While this was frustrating at first, it's been a learning experience. Because I do want to become a nutritionist (holistic doctor etc.) so while this sucks, it's a great learning experience. So I know there are similar conditions out there. But it's about looking at everything as a whole (when did all this start?) and that's what I'm doing.

"I don't know where you're getting your information from but vegetarians tend to have copper overload."

Perhaps a handful of vegetarians who run a few miles a day and eat a pound of nuts a day, but many vegetarians such as myself can't eat that many nuts due to the high number of calories.
Some use the term copper overload to describe a high copper to zinc ratio, but in vegetarians this is probably due to zinc levels being extremely low, and not copper levels being very high.

"It has been reported that copper is less bioavailable from a vegetarian diet, compared to a mixed diet, possibly because of the high content of fiber and phytate in vegetarian diets. This finding suggests that a vegetarian diet may be of value in the treatment of Wilson's disease, a disorder caused by copper accumulation. Two patients with Wilson's showed improvement on a vegetarian diet, despite being almost totally noncompliant with anti-copper medication."

http://www.tldp.com/issue/154/copper.htm

"Vegetarian diets have been associated with decreased plasma copper. "

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_1_21/ai_82605320/

"Vegetarian diets often contain more copper than do nonvegetarian diets, but observations of decreased plasma copper associated with vegetarian diets suggest that these diets have lower copper bioavailability than do nonvegetarian diets. "

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/74/6/803

Let's just say that copper intake varies greatly for vegetarians. My own intake of nuts which are high in copper for example has varied greatly, and there were some long periods of time that I ate no nuts at all.The studies do seem to indicate that vegetarians need more copper intake to have a normal plasma level of copper.

"And vegetarians also have a higher chance of developing thyroid issues because of soy (and copper overload"

Perhaps these thyroid issues are due to not eating fish and having an iodine deficiency?

"As for multi's, the majority of multivitamins have copper and the dosage is usually 2mg."

I doubt that, but if I was taking a multi with 2 mg of copper, I wouldn't take a separate copper supplement.

"I was also taking a multi when I was on the vegetarian diet. I actually told my doctor that when I drank milk, my bones... hurt."

So don't drink milk. You might have an allergy or sensitivity to milk, or lactose. You might have had a potassium overload, as milk is very high in potassium and low in sodium which is needed to balance the high potassium. I don't see how that relates to copper though.

I analysed my diet, and suddenly realized I was sodium deficient! I was very shocked to find my diet had less than 500 mg of sodium a day. I ate almost all natural foods that were low in sodium. Since then, I make sure to put salt on my food, even though I don't particularly like the taste of salt. This contrasts with the general population, which probably averages around 5,000 mg a day of sodium, more than double what they should be consuming.

I think you should read this page.

http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html

Perhaps you also have a carnitine and creatine deficiency which is related to a vegetarian diet. Many vegetarians are deficient in iron, and copper is necessary for the absorption, storage, and utilization of iron. Copper is also part of the hemoglobin molecule.

Milk also may help promote candida overgrowth. If you want to consume dairy products, plain yogurt with active cultures, or sheeses that have much less carbohydrates than milk might be a good idea, although even too much of these is not good.

If Zinc levels are low... than copper levels are most likely high. Zinc/Copper levels should be 8:1. That's a significant difference. Vegetarians are deficient in Zinc because the diet is high... in copper. Which is why Zinc is low in the first place.


I would question the "treatment". The only thing it list there is Zinc and whatever the hell the drug penicillamine does. It doesn't bring up diet change and vitamin/mineral supplementation to naturally chelate the copper out of the system.


They are also at risk that copper overload as well. Even both.


Nuts are not the only vegetarian food that are high in copper so your decreased intake of nuts makes no difference.


There is no "indication" of that. Check this study out. ( CLICK HERE) It seems to suggest that diet did not affect plasma copper or ceruloplasmin and was not correlated with plasma copper or ceruloplasmin...

Consuming more copper isn't the problem here. It's eating foods/supplements that support proper copper absorption. High zinc proteins (chicken/turkey/eggs/pumpkin seeds) and non starchy (low copper) low carbohydrates tend to improve copper absorption and bio-availability by enhancing its solubility and intestinal bulk flow. Taking more copper will just make the problem worse but to correct the imbalance by helping copper absorb better while remaining a high Zinc ratio would be a better direction to take IMHO and from what I've read of Ann's book.


That is possible as well.

Everywhere I go where they sell vitamins does not have one single multi without copper. GNC (popular store), CVS, and Big Y are the main stores around here that sell these. Not one has a copper free multi. I found one multi in GNC that was .500mgc but that was the lowest. The majority of them have 2mg (the recommended dose). This can be a problem if you are already getting the recommended dose (or higher) just from your diet. And while it appears you're not getting enough (cause of bio-availability etc), it could be just that it's building up in the liver/tissues and hair for that very reason because the body can't utilize it properly. The only way to get a copper free multi (that I know of) is online.

Read Ann's book "Why Am I Always So Tired". It's a really good educational eye opener.


My symptoms would get worse when I had foods that were extremely high in sodium. So I've decreased my salt intake by a lot. The little salt I do take is Sea Salt with Iodine added. And as a precautionary measure, I take a kelp supplement.


I stopped being a vegetarian back in early 2007. I am on a (zinc) meat based diet. Chicken, turkey, eggs, and pumpkin seeds. I don't consume any milk accept for a little bit of butter for flavor. I checked the food sources for those two and I do consume foods that have both of those.

"Vegetarians are deficient in Zinc because the diet is high... in copper. Which is why Zinc is low in the first place."

No, it is because the vegetarian diet has very little zinc in it.

"The only way to get a copper free multi (that I know of) is online."

One doesn't ned to take a multi though, they can take separate supllements, or take a multivitamin that has no minerals at all. There are several multi vitamins only products available.
500 mcg of copper isn't much of an added burden even if someone does have excess copper, but for someone who is very copper deficient the 500 mcg might make a big difference. That is why for example each 8 ounces of milk is fortified with 400 IU of vitamin D.


"And as a precautionary measure, I take a kelp supplement."

Beware of kelp. Some of it contaminated with arsenic and mercury. Buy only a reliable brand that is well tested, and even then be cautious and don't overdo it. I prefer to take my iodine as potassium iodide tablets.

The main food sources of carnitine are beef and pork/bacon.Other food sources(besides tempeh which few people eat) contain very small amounts of carnitine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine

Semantics.


Buying them separately can be more costly though.


I'll keep that in mind. I use the GNC brand. Not sure if that's okay or not.


I eat beef once in a while. I find that it doesn't digest well with me but it does make me feel better which could be a combination of factors (iron, zinc, b12, b6 etc.) All good things. Carnitine is also found in Pumpkin seeds, broccoli, and asparagus which I eat.

I'll have to check out Carnitine and Creatine.

"Carnitine is also found in Pumpkin seeds, broccoli, and asparagus which I eat."

Carnitine in vegetables??? Not to any significant degree. For example, asparagus has 50x the carnitine of beef per 100 gram serving. Carnitine is only in very significant amounts in beef, pork, and tempeh. while fish, chicken and dairy have slight amounts, they still aren't that significant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine

B12 is important, but that is in significant amounts in chicken, turkey, eggs and dairy.

Please read this web page. It makes many interesting points about mercury poisoning and links it to chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia and multiple chemical sensitivity.

http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html

The reason why I responded to this post is that many people may already be copper deficient, and they will do great harm to themselves if they restrict copper intake.

Do you have Kayser-Fleischer rings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity

any evidence at all that you may have copper overload?

I have reconsidered what you said, and reanalyzed my diet. My conclusion is that nuts are the key. I tend to balance my weight with nuts. When my weight is on the high side, I will eat very little or no nuts or seeds. When my weight is on the low side, I might eat plenty of nuts and seeds. I looked up the copper and zinc content for the various nuts and seeds, and did notice how huge their copper content is. I decided that I shouldn't be taking any supplemental copper during the periods when I am eating plenty of nuts, but should still probably take 2 mg a day when I am avoiding nuts.

No, and you don't need to. That's not always a sign.

I tried reading that page and it's so hard. There so much information, it's overwhelming to read.

"I tried reading that page and it's so hard. There so much information, it's overwhelming to read. "


It is an excellent page. Read it slowly a few times and take notes. It reflects the results of a large number of studies. Notice the huge number of reference in the footnotes.

I read it. Some of it I knew. Some of it I didn't. Certainly take that into account since I do have fillings. A lot of the things I take for copper overload help mercury toxicity as well so looks like I'm on the right track.

You still have mercury fillings? Why didn't you have them replaced yet? I had 25 mercury fillings, the last of which was replaced over 2 years ago. I am still not well yet though.

Good lord JK you had 25? I had maybe two (Three probably hidden), one that lasted and finally got rid of it in 04. I can't imagine the level of toxicity you get with 25 when one HUGE one nearly drove me nuts.

Yes, 25 filings was a lot. Many were also quite large. I was thpought about having the replaced many years ago, but since there were so many of them I didn't want to go through that. A few years ago the fillings were degraded badly though, so I had no choice. I had almost all those fillings for over 20 years! The mercury in my body still must be huge even though I did over 20 weeks of chelation. I can't chelate any more with the Cutler protocol as my sleep is pretty messed up already. I need to find another chelation protocol that doesn't disturb my sleep. I have tried high iodine intake and cilantro. I don't know hom much these helped to remove mercury.

I plan to. Compared to you, I have 6. 25 is quite a lot... yikes. Are you using Alpha Lipoic Acid?, MSM, Milk Thistle, Spirulina, Chorella, or Alfalfa etc?

I used alpha lipoic acid on the Cutler protocol with DMSA. I can't use it now since the Cutler protocol requires taking it every 3 hours including during the night, and my sleep is already so messed up I can't get up in the middle of the night to take a dose. I did over 20 weeks of chelation last year.

i take msm. That helps with detoxification. I take 1 gram 3x a day. i am not using the other things. Triple Leaf Detox tea helps me with detoxification.

You might want to look into Spirulina and Chorella. A lot of health benefits including detoxification (mercury, heavy metals etc.) and correcting imbalances.

Also, you may want try taking MSM (1g) once a day. Preferably in the morning. When I took it 3x a day, it screwed with my sleep. So I took it once a day and figured out that if I took it around the afternoon or supper time, it messed with my sleep. So that could be your problem. If that doesn't work, you could also try not taking it for a day or two to see if it makes a difference. Have you tried melatonin? Your body could be having a problem producing it with all the craziness.

I could skip the evening dose of msm. I had bad reactions to melatonin. I stay away from it now. I am afraid of spirulina and chlorella. I have too many food sensitivities and chemical sensitivities. I tried cat's claw, for over a month, and the reaction to it seemed to get stronger and stronger. My reaction to olive leaf extract seemed to diminish over time.

I love melatonin just for the crazy dreams I get! lol

Can I ask what exactly is your health issue? Just mercury overload? Because the "reactions" you get may just be the chelating process. With copper overload, there are days where I feel great and then days where I feel bad again but it's all part of the process of getting it out of the body. From what I've read in Ann's book, food sensitivities are caused by copper overload. Not sure if mercury causes this as well though. But even so, if you're just taking a couple things to help, it will be a very long road for recovery. It doesn't seem like you're doing much... Really should look into her book. If copper and mercury share similarities, you may benefit from the copper chelation diet/supplements.

"Can I ask what exactly is your health issue? "

Chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and multiple chemical sensitivity. These three have been linked to mercury toxicity.

http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html

I know about detoxification reactions. If they are mild they can be tolerated. If they are extreme they are intolerable. I have tried to struggle through some thinking they will diminish over time, however sometimes they even intensify over time. It is hard to say what is going on, whether it is detoxification, allergic reaction, overstimulation of the immune system, etc. Some believe the problem isn't just the body's exposure to mercury, but that there is also a hypersensitivity to mercury, and that the body may be having an allergic reaction to it. Other theories may be that the detoxification channels are impaired or overworked trying to get rid of mercury, so other toxins are piling up causing problems.

It is hard to figure out what is going on and what to do about it. Getting mercury and other heavy metals out of the body is at least a first step, however figuring out how to do this given my weakened condition and other constraints is not easy. When my sleep was better I could chelate with the Cutler protocol.

I still say that copper overload isn't that common in most people or even in vegetarians, unless they are eating over a pound a day of nuts over long periods of time or taking large amounts of copper supplements, or perhaps cooking in unlined copper pots. Imo iron deficiency anemia made worse by a copper deficiency is a much greater concern for vegetarians. In analyzing my diet, I realized that it is low copper except for the nuts I eat. When my weight is on the higher side I might eat very few or no nuts. My weight has fluctuated greatly over the past few years. Recently it has fluctuated less, although it has still gone from about 10 pounds underweight to around 20 pounds overweight. I have been as much as 65 pounds overweight in past years. Now when I am at 20 pounds overweight I hit the panic button and cut my calorie intake drastically.

Chronic fatigue is also related to the adrenals. Have you looked into that? If the adrenals are burnt (which sounds likely in your case), toxicities can build. Mercury, cadmium, lead, arsenic, beryllium, copper etc. I've also read that to overcome thyroid issues, fibromayalgia, copper overload, and some other conditions, you have to fix the adrenals first. I've also read you don't want to detox until the adrenals are first addressed, otherwise it can make the issue worse and detoxification harder...


I hate to keep saying this but not according to Ann. She believes it is a common problem. She experienced it first hand and discovered a lot of her patients had it as well. A lot of factors go into copper overload, not just eating lots of nuts. You should really check it out. You can always get it at your local library if you have money issues. It's really a eye opener.

I think after what you've told me, it sounds like you need to try a new approach.

"Chronic fatigue is also related to the adrenals. Have you looked into that? "

Yes, but what is the cause and what is the effect? I take kicorice root, DHEA(25 mg a day) and increased my salt intake to boost my adrenals. I guess I could increase my DHEA intake, although some urge caution with doses over 25 mg a day.

I think wnat many think is a copper overload is really a zinc deficiency. I was just reading about taurine, which is basically only found in the diet in meat. While the body can synthesize it from methione and cyctein, zinc, vitamin B6, and vitamin A.
This page http://www.flcv.com/cfsfm.html mentions excess taurine loss in fibromyalgia. Another page I read mentions excessive taurine loss with candida overgrowth or other infections, or high levels of stress. One also needs a crucial enzyme to make tautine.

It seems like if a vegetarian doesn't supplement with B12,zinc,
iron, carnitine, creatine, and taurine, they might run into trouble.

What do you mean by cause and effect? The cause and effect of the adrenals? You could easily find that out with research. There are several reasons. Toxicity build up. Stress. Both mental and physical. Nutritional deficiencies etc. Plenty of symptoms that result from adrenal fatigue. You could also look those up. Have you gotten a blood test to make sure you have a DHEA deficiency? I'm sure DHEA is good but it's nothing I've read (the main thing anyway) to help boost adrenals. From what I've read, b-vitamins help the adrenals. Certain other vitamins. An adrenal glandular supplement... If you're a vegetarian, I've read that it's a lot harder (almost impossible) to recover from adrenal fatigue. Because of the diet lacking in the best sources of protein. And restricting diets are no good for the adrenals. And recovery can take quite a while (years even) depending on the cause.


Yes. Zinc deficiency can certainly lead to copper overload. So can adrenal fatigue and burnout. Mercury toxicity can cause this to. And in effect, cause copper overload as well.

It sounds like you're not doing too too much honestly to help your body recover. It seems like you're just cherry picking certain supplements rather than looking at everything as a whole. If mercury toxicity is connected to copper overload, than perhaps you should look into that. Maybe try a new diet for a couple months. From what you've said, it seems like you're still having issues. For me, that would be a sign to try something new. Any way you could see a holistic doctor for all this?

I am taking plenty of B vitanins. I take a B50 3 times a day.

I am doing plenty, however there are some things I need to avoid. I have tried many things, however certain things like cat's claw produce a reaction that is intolerable for me. I stuck with it for a month and a half, but it seemed like the reaction was getting worse with time, I had to quit.

As for cherry picking, I can only tolerate what I can tolerate, and won't use a long term treatment that is worse than the disease. I don't mind some temporary discomfort if I can make some progress.

i have tried different diets and rotation diets. I have been sick many years. The only thing I have done relatively recently(2 years ago) was getting my amalgams replaced.

I have gone through periods of feeling better and periods of feeling much worse. When I fist started having my amalgams replaced I was very overweight. I rapidly lost plenty of weight and felt better, but then several months later I felt horrible and regained plenty of weight. I was trying to figure out if I felt better due to weight less(perhaps less water retention?) or when I felt better I was more active and burned more calories so I weighed less. I think there is also the tendency to overeat when one feels fatigued, thinking that the extra calories will give extra energy. Quite often the opposite is true though.

I did this and it screwed with my sleep. So now I just take 1 (b50) in the morning and maybe one at lunch, if I feel like testing the waters.

Do you feel better before or after you had your amalgams replaced?

Did you take anything special for the amalgams procedure? Mike Adams on NaturalNews.com said he took Chlorella before and after the procedure. It's suppose to greatly reduce the toxic side effects you get with the procedure with the vapors and anything that happens to go down the throat etc. And from what I've read, it sounds like Chlorella and Spirulina are the best for heavy metal toxicity removal and among other great health benefits. I think I read it helps with food allergies as well. What exactly are you afraid of? It's not like it's isolated synthetic supplements. It's food (plant food) basically. Here is a link to the article by him if you're interested. Click Here Just scroll down a bit and click on the yellow Free Download link.

"Do you feel better before or after you had your amalgams replaced? "

After I started having them replaced I started feeling much better. After they were all replaced, I started feeling much worse. I guess this might be somewhat of a reflection of the mercury in my blood? Since I had so many amalgams, I had them replaced over a one year period.

"I did this and it screwed with my sleep. "

Excellent point! Come to think of it, I think my insomnia got worse after I added the third B50. I am going to stop the third B50 I was taking in the evening and see if my insomia abates.

"Did you take anything special for the amalgams procedure?"

Nothing special. I think that is part of the problem. I would have been better off if I started taking olive leaf extract before the dental work began. I had such bad candida problems.

Many people with chemical sensitivity don't tolerate chlorella or spirulina.

"What exactly are you afraid of?"
If you have to ask that, then you probably aren't suffering from severe chemical sensitivity. The sensitivity isn't just to artificial substances but also to many natural ones.

I'm not even sure what you mean by "chemical sensitivity".

"I'm not even sure what you mean by "chemical sensitivity".

One example of it is they you are feeling okay then someone walks near you with a lit cigarette and when you get a whif of the smoke suddenly many muscles start aching or you get a bad headache. Things like cigarette smoke,perfume, diesel fumes, fumes from cleaning products, paint fumes, the odor of candle burning, and other chemicals can be triggers. Some foods are triggers as well and cause muscle ache and/or headache. What chemical sensitivity means is that certain things that irritate most people at high concentrations irritate chemically sensitive people at much lower concentrations.

Ah. I have that issue as well. I stopped being around cigarette smoke (as much as I could) so I always thought my reaction to it was just because I wasn't around it much. But I can't breath around it. My face gets red. I feel pins and needles on my skin (face mostly). My nose kind of has a burning sensation. Strong perfume bothers me to. Candles and anything that's really strong. It depends on what it is to because usually natural (lemongrass, apricot, cinnamon, etc.) less strong smells don't affect me. But colognes, perfumes, smoke, cleaning chemicals (bleach etc.) bother me. I'm not sure it's bad as yours but I do get a reaction. I use to think it was just my body being healthier from eating better and stuff. But I guess not?

So what kind of foods bother you?

I don't know exactly which foods, but I do avoid things like spirulina, chlorella, and mushrooms.

Molybdenum supplements can help reduce chemical sensitivity.
Molybdenum also helps the body eliminate copper. I take 1 mg (1,000 mcg) a day of molybdenum.

http://candidapage.com/aldehyde.shtml

If you don't know what "foods", than why would you avoid them? They are after all just foods. Superfoods. Plant foods. Have you even tried Spirulina and Chlorella to come to that conclusion? Mushrooms are high in copper. I avoid those. Alpha Lipoic Acid helps chelate toxins (as I'm sure your aware of) out of the tissues... while Molybdenum helps chelate it out of the blood. It's good to have those two together. Can I ask where you got your MolyB from?

I used to use Carlson MolyB. Lately I have been using Thorne Molybdenum 1,000 mcg. Very few stores stock Carlson MolyB, so you would probably need to buy it online. Many online merchants sell it.

Copper helps suppress candida, and those who are on a low copper diet might make their candida problems much worse.

A normal amount of copper sure. But if you have too much that's causing issues, that can't be good. It's not like I'm trying to rid of copper indefinitely. I still consume certain copper foods but making sure my zinc intake is higher. I'm just chelating my body. Trying to get it back to a normal level. Whether that's copper or copper and mercury, who knows. But I feel better. So it must be working.

Anyway. Another question. My last procedure for fillings was back in 2005 I believe. I know it was a September. That month is when I started getting these weird holes in my tonsils where white junk would come out. I could squeeze them and the stuff would pour out. I was told it was normal. Food getting caught in the pockets of the tonsils... But I was also told some people don't get it so it can't really be normal. I wonder if it's caused by the mercury?

"That month is when I started getting these weird holes in my tonsils where white junk would come out. I could squeeze them and the stuff would pour out. I was told it was normal. Food getting caught in the pockets of the tonsils... But I was also told some people don't get it so it can't really be normal. I wonder if it's caused by the mercury?"

I never heard of anything like that before. What do you think the white stuff is? Pus? Have you tried doing some Google searches?

JK you tend to take alot of stuff, I would be confused at the balances you try to do and all the stuff you take everyday! Very confusing to say the least (I could not do it lol). You have sensitivity to Spirulina? Why is that?

Hi JK98, (((( Smiles ))))

Your doctor and mine at that time must be different doctors yet they had the same answers so they must have this basic guide book they go by.
An answer to any question that may come up.
But for me it was so bad that ...
I made them take a swab of my throat and they phoned me back saying to go get some antibiotics because I had a case of Strep Throat.
It wasen't food particles for me and I still eat all the time and it hasen't happened since so it must have been a puss infection issue other wise food would be pocketing all the time...
Foods always going in people do eat.. ((( Smiles )))

I don't think I have strep throat. My voice is fine. I don't feel sick. It's just I get the white stuff inside of the pockets. They say it's food that gets caught but how does food get caught and turn into little white rocks? Weird. I use to get them a lot in the beginning but since changing my diet, it's not AS bad.

JK98,
I was reading last night a book called "Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome". The author has experiences by people in the book from having teeth, gum, cavity issues etc. One woman had adrenal issues and with the surgery to fix the infections etc, made her adrenals worse because her body couldn't handle the stress. And two years later, she still suffered from adrenal fatigue. So it looks like it may take a while for your body to heal from all that. But the author does say while it can pull the adrenals down further, if the right therapy is applied, it can be corrected. Whatever that.. is.

Hello Lynnmn.

I don't know what to make of all this except to say that we have immune impairement, so oppotunistic infections will occur. Adrenal fatigue is probably part of the equation, as is thyroid issues, but they are like to be part of the effect, and not the primary cause. the cause might be the body's not properly detoxifying itself, plus an extra heavy burden of toxins such as mercury. Some people ask why doesn't everyone with many mercury fillings get very sick, and of those who do get quite sick, why do some recover in less than a year or two after their amalgams are replaced while others are sick much longer.

JK98,

You said you started to feel better when you started removing the amalgams but after they were all replaced, you started to feel worse again. It sounds like the procedure itself could be very stressful for the body. Especially if you didn't take anything to help counteract the toxic side effects (the mercury vapors etc) and the fact that you had 25... Since the adrenals are what help the body respond to stress, the experience could have burnt out your adrenals which is why you feel much worse after the whole experience. So from what you've said, it sounds like adrenal fatigue could very well be your primary concern. Just a thought.

And speaking of chemical sensitivity, one of the issues I have is I can't touch anything (chemical cleaners, soaps, etc.) or else my hands get clammy (sweatyish). Do you have this?

"You said you started to feel better when you started removing the amalgams but after they were all replaced, you started to feel worse again. It sounds like the procedure itself could be very stressful for the body."

It is stressful. Replacing amalgams also causes more mercury to be absorbed. I had some other infections in the interim, so it is difficult to say what causes what. All I know is that I am run down and have plenty of muscle ache, which is better at times and worse at times. I do notice that I usually feel better in the the winter than in the summer. I think I also have mold allergies, and air pollution is much worse in the summer.

I don't think adrenal fatigue is my primary problem. Adrenal fatigue and thyroid problems are probably the result of mercury toxicity, and not the cause. Who knows though. The body should be able to get rid of some mercury, but the problem is when it is overwhelmed.

"And speaking of chemical sensitivity, one of the issues I have is I can't touch anything (chemical cleaners, soaps, etc.) or else my hands get clammy (sweatyish). Do you have this?"

Touching it is not really an issue for me, but breathing in the fumes is very much an issue.

Yea but at this point, it's been roughly two years since your last procedure. From what I've read, it shouldn't take this long to eliminate the mercury out of your system. It takes about 4 months for the free floating mercury to leave the body and depending on the severity before and after the procedure, two years seems to be the average. I'd say after two years if you're not feeling better, there's something else going on. If I were you, I'd help the adrenals and thyroid to see if it makes a difference. And if it doesn't help than I suppose you have a little while longer to go with the detox.

"Yea but at this point, it's been roughly two years since your last procedure. From what I've read, it shouldn't take this long to eliminate the mercury out of your system. "

It can take much longer than that I was only able to chelate for around 25 weeks. Withouht enough chelation mercury can stay in the brain and nervous system for many years.

Why did you stop the chelation?

"Why did you stop the chelation?"

My sleep was too messed up. I could not get up in the middle of the night for a dose then fall back to sleep. I think I will try chelation at a lower dosage, and just chelate during the days and sleep through the night. I don't care how bad people will say this is, it is either this or nothing(and I guess every 3 hours during the day is still better than every 8 hours around the clock). I was using 200 mg ALA and 66 mg DMSA every 3 hours last time I chelated. This time I will just take 50 mg of ALA per dose. If this goes well then I might increase it after a few rounds.

My muscles ache so much that I felt desperate and started today taking 50 mg ALA a dose. I am starting to get the mild headache typical with ALA use, but my muscles ache less. A mild headache is better than strong muscle ache.

It's probably for the best to start off small and work your way back up. And if it bothers you, just lower the dose. Keep it at a steady dose that you can handle.

ALA has a strange effect on me. If makes my muscles ache less, but sometimes gives me a headache and impairs my thoughts. When I tried ALA alone last time I crashed hard. This time is different though, as I have much less mercury in my body, so I guess the ALA is having more of an effect on the mercury in my brain and nervous system.

I think I will probably add DMSA next round, as I have some of DMSA that is getting close to expiration date. I even have some that is a bit past expiration date, however it has been refrigerated since I got it a year and a half ago, so I guess it should still be okay. How much does refrigeration prolong the decay process of DMSA? Does it cut it in half or slow it even more? If I bought it a year and a half ago with a year and a half to expiration, will it still be good a year and a half from now?

From what I know, I believe it's okay. It's just may not be AS potent.