Originally Posted by Bex
Still missing the point and now putting words in my mouth. Am I surprised? Is anybody? What are the calculations I have faked?
I think he is referring to Russ's posts where Russ asserts that probability calculations rule out evolution yet Russ never supplies the calculations nor a link to them.
Originally Posted by Bex
I haven't made any, since I'm well aware that all things arise FROM something, which is logical/observable/repeatable. Yet this is what you seem to be avoiding. Either you have an imaginery dice, or you face reality that you have a created dice. It isn't really going to help solve any analogies, if you continue to to ignore the starting point.

Chemical reactions occur because the chemicals themselves exist....the first problem. However, going further... Where did the chemicals come from? What chemicals were there at that time, and in what combination and how? in order to be responsible for the starting point of the life you claim evolved? If you know this, then it should be repeatable/observable/testable. If you don't know this, then you haven't got any scientific proof to claim it did. Either way, you still have the problem of explaining the existance of those materials/chemicals - which you still can't quite escape.
Not really. Since RAZD is a deist, he can quite well agree that everything came from God making the first thing.
God makes the initial small thing that the universe expands out of.
He allows it to expand.
He allows it to cool and hydrogen to form
He allows stars to coalesce from the hydrogen.
He allows the stars to create heavier elements within them.
He allows the stars to explode.
....
...
He allows the chemicals in the oceans of Earth to form self replicating complex molecules.
He allows life to form.
He allows life to evolve.

From my point of view, I could even concede that God made all those things happen right up to forming the initial chemicals in the oceans with His own hands. This is analogous to the creation of the dice.

So, we have dice made by God. What is the probability that in rolling the dice we will get a 7? This is the calculation that RAZD is referring to.

So, we have chemicals and an ocean made by God. What is the probability that life will form from those chemicals? This is the calculation that Russ seems to be referring to. I am not sure though since Russ won't go any further than saying that the probability is effectively impossible.

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At any rate, thanks for your last resort admission RAZD. Next time you take a contemptuous potshot or have a giggle over the idea of God, I'll remember your quote and have a giggle of my own.
This is confusing. What did RAZD say that was contemptuous of you?
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You attributing all this to a mindless act (your god) and me attributing it to an act from power/intellect/knowledge (my God). grin
Why do you assume that RAZD's version of God is mindless?

A faith that connot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets. -- Arthur C. Clarke